65+ Kills in a single 1vX - Hybrid Nightblade

React

Ending the tank meta one Assasin's Will at a time.

https://youtu.be/UP-bEfq3v8c

XiangliSYD

Meta not so tanky after all.

baselesschart

XiangliSYD wrote: »

Meta not so tanky after all.

Nah plenty of tanks out there. He's just fighting squishies and players of lesser skill

React

XiangliSYD wrote: »

Meta not so tanky after all.

baselesschart wrote: »

XiangliSYD wrote: »

Meta not so tanky after all.

Nah plenty of tanks out there. He's just fighting squishies and players of lesser skill

This.

Chori

Superb, congrats man!

TechMaybeHic

It amazes me that they keep coming. I run with varying group sizes depending on the night, and one night a week, it is a massive group and we would be yelling to get them away from there. lol

Anyway; curious about the build. Looks like no burst heal and just HOT stacking? Nevermind. I do see healthy offering

React

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

It amazes me that they keep coming. I run with varying group sizes depending on the night, and one night a week, it is a massive group and we would be yelling to get them away from there. lol

Anyway; curious about the build. Looks like no burst heal and just HOT stacking? Nevermind. I do see healthy offering

Here is the build I'm currently using, along with a mechanics guide

https://youtu.be/bgRmoWuvAy0

MEBengalsFan2001

It amazes me how weak AW is currently, it should be doing 10x the damage it does now.

baselesschart

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

It amazes me how weak AW is currently, it should be doing 10x the damage it does now.

I sense your sarcasm is insinuating that AW is hitting unnecessarily hard in his video. It is in fact not. React is simply just really good at lining up all the damage modifiers that nightblade has and maximizing the output. Also as I said in a previous comment, he's not fighting particularly beefy opponents, they are all from what I can tell quite squishy.

PhoenixGrey

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

It amazes me how weak AW is currently, it should be doing 10x the damage it does now.

It should be a spammable also. I don’t like waiting for 5 seconds

SkaraMinoc

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

It amazes me how weak AW is currently, it should be doing 10x the damage it does now.

It should be a spammable also. I don’t like waiting for 5 seconds

Should not be blockable or dodgeable.

Must be slottable on every action bar slot so all you need to do is press a random IWIN button.

PhoenixGrey

baselesschart wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

It amazes me how weak AW is currently, it should be doing 10x the damage it does now.

I sense your sarcasm is insinuating that AW is hitting unnecessarily hard in his video. It is in fact not. React is simply just really good at lining up all the damage modifiers that nightblade has and maximizing the output. Also as I said in a previous comment, he's not fighting particularly beefy opponents, they are all from what I can tell quite squishy.

Of course, React is a really good nb

But it’s really not hard to hit those numbers.

PhoenixGrey

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

It amazes me how weak AW is currently, it should be doing 10x the damage it does now.

It should be a spammable also. I don’t like waiting for 5 seconds

Should not be blockable or dodgeable.

Must be slottable on every action bar slot so all you need to do is press a random IWIN button.

Also damage should be AOE

And of course other nbs should be immune to it. Oh wait they already are;)

baselesschart

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Of course, React is a really good nb

But it’s really not hard to hit those numbers.

Well yeah when you're 1vxing and they happen to be low cp players and/or PvE players its not hard to hit high numbers. Any competent player with a good build you would need to line up all your damage modifiers to have a chance of hitting those high numbers, and sometimes you don't, i've had everything come together but it was a non crit and only hit for like 8k and then you have to reset.

axi

It's kinda funny that nb recived so many buffs that cloak which was always a core of class's identity became optional.

Tommy_The_Gun

axi wrote: »

It's kinda funny that nb recived so many buffs that cloak which was always a core of class's identity became optional.

That is because there are too many hard counters for invisibility that were also buffed. On top of that cloak no longer suppresses DOT dmg. So it not necessarily the fact that NB skills that were rarely used were buffed, but rather the fact that most NBs had to somehow adapt to the changes.

OBJnoob

baselesschart wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

It amazes me how weak AW is currently, it should be doing 10x the damage it does now.

I sense your sarcasm is insinuating that AW is hitting unnecessarily hard in his video. It is in fact not. React is simply just really good at lining up all the damage modifiers that nightblade has and maximizing the output. Also as I said in a previous comment, he's not fighting particularly beefy opponents, they are all from what I can tell quite squishy.

The thing is though he's missing the 20% damage modifier from Incap. His build video has Incap slotted but his X video is using Soul Tether.

Also bothersome and/or let's use the word "incongruent," is the fact that so many people in the Nerf AW thread are saying it needs to be what it is because of the tank meta. Then this video surfaces titled "Ending the tank meta," paired with a build video that starts out talking about the tank meta, but then in conversation it is admitted that these players are neither tanky nor good.

Which... Whatever. It's an amazing video. I couldn't do nearly as well no matter the class or build.

But it does need mentioning that the two main defenses of AW are 1) the existence of the tank meta and 2) it isn't AW it's the modifiers. BUT this video isn't actually combating the tank meta it's just slaughtering everyone else. And he isn't using his biggest damage modifier.

So I'm sure people are gonna get upset about this comment and come tell me I have a personal vendetta against NB and I don't know what I'm talking about... But at this point the cat is out of the bag, isn't it?

The truth is that some people play one way for content then come here and talk a different way to protect their content.

React

OBJnoob wrote: »

The thing is though he's missing the 20% damage modifier from Incap. His build video has Incap slotted but his X video is using Soul Tether.

I put soul tether on because I had just died to this group, and I knew that they were made out of paper and that I wouldn't need the damage modifier from incap to kill them. If you're fighting any decent, well built, or players using a tank set - you aren't killing them without incap.

OBJnoob wrote: »

Also bothersome and/or let's use the word "incongruent," is the fact that so many people in the Nerf AW thread are saying it needs to be what it is because of the tank meta. Then this video surfaces titled "Ending the tank meta," paired with a build video that starts out talking about the tank meta, but then in conversation it is admitted that these players are neither tanky nor good.

Sorry, hard to express sarcasm over the internet.

OBJnoob wrote: »

But it does need mentioning that the two main defenses of AW are 1) the existence of the tank meta and 2) it isn't AW it's the modifiers. BUT this video isn't actually combating the tank meta it's just slaughtering everyone else. And he isn't using his biggest damage modifier.

Nope. The leading defense of AW is that it has every counterplay that exists in the game. It is a well balanced ability in that regard. The modifiers are the problem, not the ability that has not received any changes in years. To suggest otherwise is ignorance.

OBJnoob wrote: »

So I'm sure people are gonna get upset about this comment and come tell me I have a personal vendetta against NB and I don't know what I'm talking about... But at this point the cat is out of the bag, isn't it?

The truth is that some people play one way for content then come here and talk a different way to protect their content.

I like how you subtly insinuate that I don't think nightblade is OP, or that I don't think nerfs should happen, when I suggested the most thorough and significant nerfs in the entire thread regarding assasin's will. Content creator bad though, right? Totally biased and definitely just needs to protect his unmonetized content farm.

Here is the list of nerfs I suggested, for anyone curious.

React wrote: »

Here is where I'd start with a first round of nerfs to nightblade (PTS week 1 type deal, to be buffed/nerfed further as needed)

1) Concealed - modifier down to 5% damage done if the proc is going to remain the way it is now, or reverted back to 300WD/SD for 10 seconds (original pts value) if they made it proc the bonus on cast. Minor expedition removed. Tooltip increased to match surprise attack (+4.4%).

2) Shadowy disguise - fatigue added, just like streak or roll dodge.

3) Phantasmal - roll cost reduction capped at 30-50%.

4) Power extraction - remove the minor cowardice.

5) Death Stroke and morphs - reduce the damage modifier by 5%.

6) Healthy Offering - remove the vitality on cast. This morph heals 5% more as the morph effect (rather than granting 5% vitality for 10s). Both morphs of this skill - the DOT effect should be exponential. It already stacks, but rather than putting 3 dots on you that each tick for 100 damage per second if you press it 3 times consecutively, the first dot would tick for 100/s, the second for 200/s, the third for 300/s, etc. These would still stack, and this would encourage you not to spam the ability. Numbers are just examples, the dots hit harder than that on the live server.

Here is a 1v12 on a stamsorc and a 1v12 on a magDK (starting at 3:22), for your viewing pleasure @OBJnoob

https://youtu.be/YuvyB0GJZK4?t=202

https://youtu.be/bv-kBVtOCb4

Starlight_Knight

Amazing you can actually cast skills, 4 - 5 second delay in PC EU in a fight like that.

OBJnoob

I'm not trying to attack your character @React. Believe it or not. But you really put your foot in your mouth on this one. If you can't see that then what can you see?

"Sarcasm is hard to express over the internet." <--- Really? Even in video? Where I can hear your voice? I'm not sure you understand that phrase very well. But, in the interest of constructive criticism, might I suggest honesty?

Let's see what else... Oh yes you put fourth the most thorough and genius ideas. Wow where have I heard you say that before? Oh yea, everywhere. You asked me once what my thoughts were and I answered in detail and you never replied. But don't get me wrong-- I don't want to hear your thoughts anymore.

Nor am I going to watch the other two videos. If I want to watch a 1v12 I'll just watch my own clips. But more to the point... 65-12=53.

TechMaybeHic

axi wrote: »

It's kinda funny that nb recived so many buffs that cloak which was always a core of class's identity became optional.

Which is why it's odd to me people still are focusing on AW. React touched on some of the stuff in his list of things that can be adjusted that touches on the survivability without cloak, and the damage boosting that makes it to where you don't need the garauntee crit from cloak either with the raw damage boosts.

Maybe an argument can be made that cloak was too much a crutch to make NB work so they're trying to get away from that, but they are swung in a bit too far even without cloak, and without shadow image I'll also note.

I also think some sets provide too much offense and defense at the same time has removed the necessity of class flavor for tankiness and benefited NB which really hasn't been it's strength since glory days of Sap tanks years ago.

I think a hitter like AW otherwise should not be the target as I think NB should have that identity rather than make them a different flavor DK which I think would happen with reduction on AW directly and make it become a different whip

MEBengalsFan2001

baselesschart wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

It amazes me how weak AW is currently, it should be doing 10x the damage it does now.

I sense your sarcasm is insinuating that AW is hitting unnecessarily hard in his video. It is in fact not. React is simply just really good at lining up all the damage modifiers that nightblade has and maximizing the output. Also as I said in a previous comment, he's not fighting particularly beefy opponents, they are all from what I can tell quite squishy.

AW has the highest base damage in the game for a burst attack. Add buffs to it and of course it will hit hard because it starts with the highest base damage in the game.

PhoenixGrey

baselesschart wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Of course, React is a really good nb

But it’s really not hard to hit those numbers.

Well yeah when you're 1vxing and they happen to be low cp players and/or PvE players its not hard to hit high numbers. Any competent player with a good build you would need to line up all your damage modifiers to have a chance of hitting those high numbers, and sometimes you don't, i've had everything come together but it was a non crit and only hit for like 8k and then you have to reset.

I agree. You wouldn’t be able to 1vX competent players

They are probably 1% of the PVP population so it’s not an issue.

React

OBJnoob wrote: »

"Sarcasm is hard to express over the internet." <--- Really? Even in video? Where I can hear your voice? I'm not sure you understand that phrase very well. But, in the interest of constructive criticism, might I suggest honesty?

I thought people would recognize the caption as satire/sarcasm after watching the video. My mistake. A group of low tier players that likely aren't even properly geared aren't indicative of the actual meta in the game.

OBJnoob wrote: »

Let's see what else... Oh yes you put fourth the most thorough and genius ideas. Wow where have I heard you say that before? Oh yea, everywhere. You asked me once what my thoughts were and I answered in detail and you never replied.

Sorry, honestly it took every ounce of my self control to not respond to that comment. Your suggestions were laughably bad.

OBJnoob wrote: »

But don't get me wrong-- I don't want to hear your thoughts anymore.

Then don't comment on my post.

OBJnoob wrote: »

Nor am I going to watch the other two videos. If I want to watch a 1v12 I'll just watch my own clips. But more to the point... 65-12=53.

Can I see some of your 1v12's? I would love to watch some enjoyable content.

React

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

baselesschart wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Of course, React is a really good nb

But it’s really not hard to hit those numbers.

Well yeah when you're 1vxing and they happen to be low cp players and/or PvE players its not hard to hit high numbers. Any competent player with a good build you would need to line up all your damage modifiers to have a chance of hitting those high numbers, and sometimes you don't, i've had everything come together but it was a non crit and only hit for like 8k and then you have to reset.

I agree. You wouldn’t be able to 1vX competent players

They are probably 1% of the PVP population so it’s not an issue.

This seems a tad overstated, I would argue that after 8 years the majority of the PVP population is around the "average" mark in terms of skill.

You don't need to be competent to be "unkillable" in an Xv1 scenario. You can simply equip mara's balm or other tank sets, you can run with healers or cross healing, you can boost your HP up to 40k, etc. It is ridiculously easy to build in a way which allows you to indefinitely survive any single player.

gariondavey

OBJnoob wrote: »

I'm not trying to attack your character @React. Believe it or not. But you really put your foot in your mouth on this one. If you can't see that then what can you see?

"Sarcasm is hard to express over the internet." <--- Really? Even in video? Where I can hear your voice? I'm not sure you understand that phrase very well. But, in the interest of constructive criticism, might I suggest honesty?

Let's see what else... Oh yes you put fourth the most thorough and genius ideas. Wow where have I heard you say that before? Oh yea, everywhere. You asked me once what my thoughts were and I answered in detail and you never replied. But don't get me wrong-- I don't want to hear your thoughts anymore.

Nor am I going to watch the other two videos. If I want to watch a 1v12 I'll just watch my own clips. But more to the point... 65-12=53.

Whether or not you think react has an over-inflated sense of self-brilliance, or that he is not an agreeable fellow...he is actually a very skilled player.
Out of curiosity, do you think your content showcases greater skill?

baselesschart

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

AW has the highest base damage in the game for a burst attack. Add buffs to it and of course it will hit hard because it starts with the highest base damage in the game.

What's the issue? AW has remained largely unchanged for patches, the only thing they've changed is the effect the stacks have and hybridization so everyone can enjoy the higher tooltip morph. Neither of those have resulted in any significant change in its damage output. So that would suggest the issue is external forces outside of the ability. I'm pointing the finger at the 10% more damage from concealed and the fact that most people run low crit resist.

Theignson

React said:
"1) Concealed - modifier down to 5% damage done if the proc is going to remain the way it is now, or reverted back to 300WD/SD for 10 seconds (original pts value) if they made it proc the bonus on cast. Minor expedition removed. Tooltip increased to match surprise attack (+4.4%).

2) Shadowy disguise - fatigue added, just like streak or roll dodge.

3) Phantasmal - roll cost reduction capped at 30-50%.

4) Power extraction - remove the minor cowardice.

5) Death Stroke and morphs - reduce the damage modifier by 5%.

6) Healthy Offering - remove the vitality on cast. This morph heals 5% more as the morph effect (rather than granting 5% vitality for 10s). Both morphs of this skill - the DOT effect should be exponential. It already stacks, but rather than putting 3 dots on you that each tick for 100 damage per second if you press it 3 times consecutively, the first dot would tick for 100/s, the second for 200/s, the third for 300/s, etc. These would still stack, and this would encourage you not to spam the ability. Numbers are just examples, the dots hit harder than that on the live server."

These are all reasonable suggestions. However, I don't think cloak should have fatigue. For Non brawler NB cloak is the defining aspect of their game play.

Still I think Assassins will is completely unreasonable, I would suggest the following changes:
1) require 3 NB abilities to generate the 300 spell/weapon damage and charge AW. This would make it equivalent to DK molten whip. Why should NB get 300 Weapon damage for no resource cost just by staying back and pinging people with their ice staffs or doing their normal weave?
2) Eliminate the huge heal. Why should NB get an ability, that costs no resources, hit for 20k and then get a 10k heal?

These two changes would still let NB hit for their insane 20k bows that hit harder than most ultimates .

PhoenixGrey

React wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

baselesschart wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Of course, React is a really good nb

But it’s really not hard to hit those numbers.

Well yeah when you're 1vxing and they happen to be low cp players and/or PvE players its not hard to hit high numbers. Any competent player with a good build you would need to line up all your damage modifiers to have a chance of hitting those high numbers, and sometimes you don't, i've had everything come together but it was a non crit and only hit for like 8k and then you have to reset.

I agree. You wouldn’t be able to 1vX competent players

They are probably 1% of the PVP population so it’s not an issue.

This seems a tad overstated, I would argue that after 8 years the majority of the PVP population is around the "average" mark in terms of skill.

You don't need to be competent to be "unkillable" in an Xv1 scenario. You can simply equip mara's balm or other tank sets, you can run with healers or cross healing, you can boost your HP up to 40k, etc. It is ridiculously easy to build in a way which allows you to indefinitely survive any single player.

I agree that its become easier to survive but i think the underlying skill remains the same. Raising the floor is one the main contributing factors. Mara's balm is one such set to appease casuals

I have no problems with the current offense and defense of NB. I do have an issue though when week 1 NB's perform as well as solo players 1vx'ing since beta. I mean a lot of sorc mains picked up NB recently and they do pretty well.

If the ceiling ain't raised soon enough, it leads to only one outcome where numbers will decide fights and a really boring game.
PVP population has been steadily decreasing due to the fact that ZOS caters to casuals.

baselesschart

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

I agree that its become easier to survive but i think the underlying skill remains the same. Raising the floor is one the main contributing factors. Mara's balm is one such set to appease casuals

I have no problems with the current offense and defense of NB. I do have an issue though when week 1 NB's perform as well as solo players 1vx'ing since beta. I mean a lot of sorc mains picked up NB recently and they do pretty well.

If the ceiling ain't raised soon enough, it leads to only one outcome where numbers will decide fights and a really boring game.
PVP population has been steadily decreasing due to the fact that ZOS caters to casuals.

It might be a little extreme to say week 1 NB's are successfully solo 1vxing to the same degree as people who have been maining the class since launch. I think NB has a lot of damage and that can help offensively to newer players, but its still an unforgiving class when outnumbered.

I do agree though that ZOS caters to casuals. It was because of solo nightblades that ZOS removed defile on incap and major fracture off surprise attack years ago.

Cloudrest

OBJnoob wrote: »

Let's see what else... Oh yes you put fourth the most thorough and genius ideas. Wow where have I heard you say that before? Oh yea, everywhere. You asked me once what my thoughts were and I answered in detail and you never replied. But don't get me wrong-- I don't want to hear your thoughts anymore.

Nor am I going to watch the other two videos. If I want to watch a 1v12 I'll just watch my own clips. But more to the point... 65-12=53.

React remains one of the only players who has successfully transferred from Console and dominated on PC in openworld PvP and dueling. He can play several classes at an insanely high skill level, too, and he always managed to impress me with his mechanical skill in dueling. Not only that, he spends time that he doesn't have to spend trying to educate people, provide builds, teach PvP mechanics, and provide suggestions that'll bring the game closer to a balanced state. He's one of the few streamers I watch whenever I head onto Twitch-- and he's definitively set the meta for a patch or two now for nightblade.

He's got incredible game knowledge, and on top of that, he's got an incredible passion for the game still when many of us have plainly given up at this point and are tired of screaming into the void. He spends all of this time trying when he doesn't have to. And then there's people like you on the forums who ignore and dismiss whatever he has to say because you think you know better.

Here's a hard truth: you don't.