Characters that got forgoten and could be added to stories ...

Lucasalex92

You have so many in game, mini stories while doing that are not reused to just even see them in game would be nice in each expansion or at least once in a while like Dugroth, Lorka or many others, apart of telling him to be blacksmith u don't see or know whats happened to him when he went to be a warrior, if we ever had orc expansion (another) would be nice or maybe he joined dragonguard got a bit older or have kids ) or got married to lorka would be amazing to see how those characters doing ,

small things that makes people happy...

ghastley

They are in your past, but other players’s futures. Since ESO is taking place without advancing the calendar, they would only get confused living their lives out of order.

Only the select few can handle that, like the five companions, Eveli, and some others that get over-used.

Elsonso

No. Reusing characters is the number one reason ZOS gets into trouble with the "do it in any order you want" plan. Each story should have new characters.

DMuehlhausen

Elsonso wrote: »

No. Reusing characters is the number one reason ZOS gets into trouble with the "do it in any order you want" plan. Each story should have new characters.

This only is an issue because the original story you killed somebody then they were just here you go they are back.

You could bring back a character like Daini. The Khajit in Souther Elswyr that was trying to rescue her brother from a skooma dealer. You helped her get away she could show up somewhere else in the world. That or if ZoS really wants to tell a grand story, and good one, have quests that take you back to old zones where you run into characters like Daini.

Elsonso

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

No. Reusing characters is the number one reason ZOS gets into trouble with the "do it in any order you want" plan. Each story should have new characters.

This only is an issue because the original story you killed somebody then they were just here you go they are back.

You could bring back a character like Daini. The Khajit in Souther Elswyr that was trying to rescue her brother from a skooma dealer. You helped her get away she could show up somewhere else in the world. That or if ZoS really wants to tell a grand story, and good one, have quests that take you back to old zones where you run into characters like Daini.

What happens if the first time you meet Daini was in some Chapter, long before you ever even set foot in Elsweyr? In this story, she went to Elsweyr after initially meeting you, not escaped from it. ZOS either has to ignore the discrepancy or re-record dialog from Southern Elsweyr, an optional DLC zone, to account for it. This is how ZOS gets into trouble and it adds cost to the development.

Besides, this reuse of characters makes Tamriel smaller. I am starting to find it annoying that I trip across familiar people everywhere I go. It's like they are stalking me. If this keeps up, ZOS can approach Disney to sponsor the rebranding It's A Small World as It's a Small Tamriel.

Lucasalex92

but nobody said make them grand story or anything like that, i was saying just to place them for reason of conversation, u can throw at people "i want, and it will be like that " ...

Elsonso wrote: »

No. Reusing characters is the number one reason ZOS gets into trouble with the "do it in any order you want" plan. Each story should have new characters.

just because few of you say it doesn't mean people wouldn't like it

TaSheen

I'm not in favor of reuse of characters personally, especially when they're as annoying as Eveli and Jakarn.

Lugaldu

Perhaps the problem could be solved in such a way that you can only encounter characters that you have met if you play quests/areas in the correct chronological order. Such quests could only be unlocked automatically once you have completed the basic quests. I also find it quite immersion-breaking when you meet characters you're not supposed to know yet (I started Summerset in 2018 and it was downright weird to later encounter Darien in a different context...).

whitecrow

I was happy to see Captain Jimila again in High Isle.

tomofhyrule

I'm honestly not too big a fan of reusing characters.

Don't get me wrong, it's fun to see familiar faces. It just always goes the same way:

• A returning character is a 'fan-favorite' because of a certain personality trait, with people not realizing that not all fans think of them as a favorite, and some even dislike them because of that trait
• Said personality trait is then enhanced and made their only personality trait, because if people liked it when it was a quirk, they'd obviously love it if they got more of it and nothing else! /s
• The character is then rubbed in everyone's face to make it seem like you're wrong if you don't like them.

This tends to make a lot of people who liked the character before get annoyed that they are now one-dimensional and are being treated ham-fistedly... to say nothing of the people who disliked them because of that quirk. I know I'm the kind of person who really resents characters being shoved in my face, especially if there's a different character I like better.

See Jakarn's 'evolution' from 'lovable yet successful rogue with a girl (or boy) in every port' to 'horndog who only thinks with the wrong head but couldn't get a date if his life depended on it.' Or Eveli's journey from 'plucky yet naïve beginner adventurer' to 'brainless moron who simultaneously can't figure anything out without it being spelled out and won't let anyone do anything without her.' Or Lady Laurent's classic transition from 'arrogant noble who sees herself as an adventurer' to 'insufferable abuser who people overlook because her victim is a guy.'

Even the latest storyline was, imho, completely ruined because of the characters they brought back. They could have given us a story about the conflict between Breton nobility and the underclasses (and adding in King Emeric would have worked), but instead they had to shoehorn Queen Ayrenn in ("omg Kate Beckinsale!!") which led to the story not making logical sense because of another character's absence and it flanderized Emeric into a useless oaf. And then we had to get Za'ji and Caska as the AD captain ("omg they're so funny!!"), despite them having zero history with the AD instead of the captain who did have history with the AD (and then Jimila got relegated to a sidequest on Amenos. They should have swapped those two).

We've got some characters who have showed up in almost every zone. Give Rigurt and his inane quests a rest already; I can see why he's an ineffective ambassador if he's constantly travelling and bungling everything. Why does he still have a job at this point? And I'll also say that some of these fan-favorite returning characters, once they get oversold, end up being forgotten for who they were and only remembered for the worse returning version (People still talk about Naryu being overused and ineffecive after her last questline. In Morrowind. Naryu hasn't returned for a quest in almost 6 years).

Meanwhile there are characters who I do like that haven't been seen since Coldharbour (I loved seeing Holgunn and Walks-in-Ash through the Pact line, but they're not 'quirky' enough to make a reappearance). Again, it would be nice to see them again, but only if they keep their personality. I'd hate to see Holgunn return and then end up being some stereotypical drunk idiot Nord who bungles everything and needs you to pull him out of it - he's a decorated and effective general, and a good mentor.

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.

Thank you for your understanding.

Syldras

Elsonso wrote: »

No. Reusing characters is the number one reason ZOS gets into trouble with the "do it in any order you want" plan. Each story should have new characters.

While this is indeed an issue, this whole forced stagnation makes the world seem less alive and reduces immersion too, in my opinion.

Syldras

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Give Rigurt and his inane quests a rest already; I can see why he's an ineffective ambassador if he's constantly travelling and bungling everything. Why does he still have a job at this point?

While I couldn't agree more with the rest you wrote, the joke about Rigurt is that the king sends him aways as an "ambassador" to get rid of him because he causes too much trouble in his home country. That's the story told between the lines in one of the base zones (I can't remember though where I first saw him - Deshaan, maybe? It's 7 years ago for me).

Tommy_The_Gun

The issue I think is that ZOS seems to be re-using like 2 - 4 same NPC characters over & over again (every chapter), instead of re-using other nicely designed characters (that they have plenty in the game) and those characters played a major role in certain zones, but for whatever reason never appeared again.

Captain One-Eye could be a good example:
She plays major role in Shadowfen main story line and later can be seen i Coldharbour during main quest, but... never appears again. She just disappears from the game. What is also weird is that even though we had Blackwood & High Isle chapters - an Argonian Pirate NPC from the base game wasn't in neither of those... ZOS went for same npcs as they do every time.

If it was more varied then the problem of "play any order you want" would not exists.

tomofhyrule

Syldras wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Give Rigurt and his inane quests a rest already; I can see why he's an ineffective ambassador if he's constantly travelling and bungling everything. Why does he still have a job at this point?

While I couldn't agree more with the rest you wrote, the joke about Rigurt is that the king sends him aways as an "ambassador" to get rid of him because he causes too much trouble in his home country. That's the story told between the lines in one of the base zones (I can't remember though where I first saw him - Deshaan, maybe? It's 7 years ago for me).

Yeah, I know that's the reason, but then that leaves a gaping plot hole in another way. I get why Jorunn wants him gone (so do I), but is it really smart to send him to meet with actual ambassadors then? Is this maybe why all of Tamriel thinks that Nords are nothing but drunk idiots because Jorunn keeps sending Rigurt to them instead of just sending him to, I don't know, investigate the convection currents in Y'ffelon or something?

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Captain One-Eye could be a good example:
She plays major role in Shadowfen main story line and later can be seen i Coldharbour during main quest, but... never appears again. She just disappears from the game. What is also weird is that even though we had Blackwood & High Isle chapters - an Argonian Pirate NPC from the base game wasn't in neither of those... ZOS went for same npcs as they do every time.

Another one of my gripes with the High Isle storyline.

"We need a sea captain from each alliance! We've obviously got Kaleen for the DC since she shows up several times throughout the story. For the AD, let's go with the comic relief characters instead of the captain that you see throughout the AD line. We'll just throw her a bone in a sidequest and people will be too busy laughing at the font of comedy that is Za'ji to notice that Jimila got done dirty. And for the Pact... uhh... well, let's just make a brand new character because [snip] the EP, amirite? We don't even need to give the new EP captain a nice costume or give the EP not-leader a custom outfit!"

Syldras

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Yeah, I know that's the reason, but then that leaves a gaping plot hole in another way. I get why Jorunn wants him gone (so do I), but is it really smart to send him to meet with actual ambassadors then?

Well, I assume Jorunn is prone to making bad decisions (or really doesn't care much about everything outside his country), otherwise he wouldn't have skipped the peace talks in High Isle just because spending that time in bed with some random Nord woman seems more important to him...

tomofhyrule

Syldras wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Yeah, I know that's the reason, but then that leaves a gaping plot hole in another way. I get why Jorunn wants him gone (so do I), but is it really smart to send him to meet with actual ambassadors then?

Well, I assume Jorunn is prone to making bad decisions (or really doesn't care much about everything outside his country), otherwise he wouldn't have skipped the peace talks in High Isle just because spending that time in bed with some random Nord woman seems more important to him...

And there's another one of my major gripes with the High Isle storyline...
Nobody would have allowed that in the real world. How hard would it have been for the 'excuse reason' to instead have been "He caught the Knahaten flu and is in Stormhold with the best Argonian healers, but he sent his son because he realizes the importance of these talks." But no, we instead got "LOL funny man wants to sleep with a rando woman instead of doing his job! look how useless he is! LOL"

I will say that it's nice to see the leaders fatal flaws getting their comeuppance, I'd like to see more of that. 2E Tamriel is a harsh place, and the chaos of the interregnum goes all the way until Tiber Septim comes in 300 years later. Jorunn's not a king, he's a second-son warrior and he doesn't even have his component races united under him (and there's plenty of potential for a Telvanni Peninsula or Central Black Marsh story to fracture the Pact even further). Emeric's a bit bull-headed, and after Orsinium he's lost one race (and the stage is set for a Crowns/Forebears conflict to take the Redguards away). And then you have Ayrenn, whose naïveté has caused her to [ERROR: CONSEQUENCES NOT FOUND].

...yes, I do think they ended up writing one of the alliances into a corner because they wanted to shill her character too much. I'd have loved to see some conflict in Summerset where the traditional faction of Altmer start to fragment the Dominion, or maybe have the rise of the Camorans in Valenwood since we know that they lead the 2nd AD within 300 years, but it really does feel like the AD and their leader is a little too perfect and utopian at times, which I think makes it look like bad writing in comparison.
...I suppose it's no coincidence that most "Who's your favorite NPC" threads have Ayrenn and Raz as the top two.

Syldras

tomofhyrule wrote: »

And there's another one of my major gripes with the High Isle storyline...
Nobody would have allowed that in the real world. How hard would it have been for the 'excuse reason' to instead have been "He caught the Knahaten flu and is in Stormhold with the best Argonian healers, but he sent his son because he realizes the importance of these talks." But no, we instead got "LOL funny man wants to sleep with a rando woman instead of doing his job! look how useless he is! LOL"

In case it wasn't obvious: I didn't mean this seriously. Of course I don't think this whole thing makes any sense (just as sending a intellectually underdeveloped drunkard as an ambassador), it just fits ESO's current general tendency, sadly. I found the writing in 2022 a catastrophy. Random bawdiness without any sense everywhere, logic mistakes (ToT being a brand-new traditional long-established card game), lore mistakes ("Naryu saved the Tribunal and Morrowind"), and most dialogues are really, really repetative and stupid. I've been complaining about the bad writing especially in 2022 for weeks and I'm really worried how this year's chapter will turn out after this debacle. And, to return to this thread's topic, that of course also includes recurrent characters (which I'm sure there will be plenty, because it's a type of fanservice that works with many people). I really don't want to see more characters that had been likeable in older chapters ruined by the current tendency of bad, lore-breaking writing.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I suppose it's no coincidence that most "Who's your favorite NPC" threads have Ayrenn and Raz as the top two.

A strong and attractive young woman voiced by a famous voice actor. A cat, and at the same time a flirty rogue-ish type who's still one of the "good ones". I'm not surprised. And flirtyness always sells (with many people), if you consider that not only Raz is one of the favourites, but also Jakarn (at least had been), also Darien and Naryu.

tomofhyrule

Syldras wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

And there's another one of my major gripes with the High Isle storyline...
Nobody would have allowed that in the real world. How hard would it have been for the 'excuse reason' to instead have been "He caught the Knahaten flu and is in Stormhold with the best Argonian healers, but he sent his son because he realizes the importance of these talks." But no, we instead got "LOL funny man wants to sleep with a rando woman instead of doing his job! look how useless he is! LOL"

In case it wasn't obvious: I didn't mean this seriously. Of course I don't think this whole thing makes any sense (just as sending a intellectually underdeveloped drunkard as an ambassador), it just fits ESO's current general tendency, sadly. I found the writing in 2022 a catastrophy. Random bawdiness without any sense everywhere, logic mistakes (ToT being a brand-new traditional long-established card game), lore mistakes ("Naryu saved the Tribunal and Morrowind"), and most dialogues are really, really repetative and stupid. I've been complaining about the bad writing especially in 2022 for weeks and I'm really worried how this year's chapter will turn out after this debacle. And, to return to this thread's topic, that of course also includes recurrent characters (which I'm sure there will be plenty, because it's a type of fanservice that works with many people). I really don't want to see more characters that had been likeable in older chapters ruined by the current tendency of bad, lore-breaking writing.

Oh don't worry, I completely agree. I have been really disappointed with the quality of the main Chapter stories lately, which is surprising since I think the Q4 DLCs have been great.

Particularly Firesong - the new characters introduced there (Laurel, Siravaen, and especially Stefan) were really compelling and I enjoyed every minute of that story. But the High Isle line with the massive catastrophe that was the 'returning characters come together for peace!' idea was... well, I'm still playing the game, but I did have to take about a month off of anything High Isle because it was that bad.

I also thought they did make good characters as well. Ember was a lot better for me than I'd expected, especially since I'm more the boy scout type (which is why I get along so well with best bro). It seems though like returning characters are just phoned in completely, and that makes me sad.

Hopefully ZOS will try to make more compelling new characters and try not to flanderize (or oversaturate) returning characters that much. I think the effort of trying to make huge story arcs is causing problems as well, since the small contained stories tend to be much better. Everyone always points to Orsinium, but I'll even say that Firesong felt quite disconnected from High Isle as a whole and I did enjoy it. True, there can always be connections, but lately it's felt more like leaving open threads.

Syldras

tomofhyrule wrote: »

It seems though like returning characters are just phoned in completely, and that makes me sad.

They don't seem to care for context much, that's the problem I see. If a character reappears somewhere, in my opinion there should be a credible reason for that. So that, for instance, Divayth Fyr was around in Fargrave, seemed reasonable to me. He's known as a collector of artifacts, many of them of Daedric origin, so it made perfectly sense he would be there, doing business - at a place that's known as a portal hub to all Daedric realms and, having travellers from all places, a huge marketplace. But that was a rare example, it seems; most recurrent characters appear rather randomly, just because they're "fan favorites". And of course it's sad, as it feels like... lack of care. Further confirmed by several big lore mistakes last year.

If it continues like that, this year's chapter might become a huge mess, I'm afraid. If it's really Telvanni Peninsula, it would be even more sad for me, as I'd really been looking forward to that, and there's so much lore and many interesting characters they could ruin. Also, I'm quite sure that even if it was a Telvanni focussed story (although I know there are also Indoril settlements in that region, so it's only an assumption) we probably won't get a Telvanni scholar leading us through the story, but Naryu (whom I find obtrusive). Because "fan favorite" and flirty. Oh, and after last year's "Hey good-looking!" and cheap innuendo, and the tendency to turn every character to a one-dimensional caricature, she'd probably be even more annoying. And while we're at stereotypes: Revus Demnevanni probably won't be intelligent but quirky anymore, but only quirky (and dumbed down like anyone else). And the Telvanni of course won't be anything more than evil slavers (who knows what they are even mages and scholars for). Not to forget the high-quality dialogues with absolutely-not-stupid questions! Man, how I look forward to have my Dunmer main, a Telvanni mage, ask Naryu what these "Telvanni" are. Or the "Great Houses". Or this "Morrowind" everyone is talking about...

fall0athboy

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

The issue I think is that ZOS seems to be re-using like 2 - 4 same NPC characters over & over again (every chapter), instead of re-using other nicely designed characters (that they have plenty in the game) and those characters played a major role in certain zones, but for whatever reason never appeared again.

Captain One-Eye could be a good example:
She plays major role in Shadowfen main story line and later can be seen i Coldharbour during main quest, but... never appears again. She just disappears from the game. What is also weird is that even though we had Blackwood & High Isle chapters - an Argonian Pirate NPC from the base game wasn't in neither of those... ZOS went for same npcs as they do every time.

If it was more varied then the problem of "play any order you want" would not exists.

Rigurt, Lady Laurent and Stibbons, who else?

fall0athboy

tomofhyrule wrote: »

It seems though like returning characters are just phoned in completely, and that makes me sad.

I know it's not exactly what you mean but wow did Jorunn's voice actor phone it in during Greymoor and Markarth.

KingArthasMenethil

I think my main issue of returning characters aside from being Flanderised is that their entire presence means you feel nothing for them. Because of play in any order they cannot die which in turn means there's nothing to worry about character wise because they'll be fine.

And honestly this "Play in any order" must make returning characters a right pain writing wise. They cannot change and they cannot die or be maimed they stay exactly the same through the entire season.

Shardan4968

I always feel awkward when I have to pretend to remember what I did with the Forgettable Character #358614.

Syldras

Shardan4968 wrote: »

I always feel awkward when I have to pretend to remember what I did with the Forgettable Character #358614.

I can't remember each single one, but a few were remarkable. In older chapters even without making them one-dimensional stereotypes (what, I'm afraid, is what ZOS considers effective character writing today).

Xarc

In glenumbra I met a woman, Gloria Fausta, strong soldier helping Duke Sebastien (exiled leader of Camlorn)

She proposed her sacrifice to save him, I refused and tried to find another way (pure elder scroll moment, hard choice),
then I saw her again in stormhaven.



I reworked her with an AI and photoshop

fall0athboy

ghastley wrote: »

They are in your past, but other players’s futures. Since ESO is taking place without advancing the calendar, they would only get confused living their lives out of order.

Only the select few can handle that, like the five companions, Eveli, and some others that get over-used.

I mean, they could absolutely just have the prior quest be required before doing the new content.

For example, I really want Sun-in-Shadow to show up in whatever Telvanni land we get in the future inevitably. Since Morrowind is free and essentially base-game, they could just make Heart of a Telvanni required for her potential Telvanni-Lands questline.

Elsonso

.

fall0athboy wrote: »

ghastley wrote: »

They are in your past, but other players’s futures. Since ESO is taking place without advancing the calendar, they would only get confused living their lives out of order.

Only the select few can handle that, like the five companions, Eveli, and some others that get over-used.

I mean, they could absolutely just have the prior quest be required before doing the new content.

For example, I really want Sun-in-Shadow to show up in whatever Telvanni land we get in the future inevitably. Since Morrowind is free and essentially base-game, they could just make Heart of a Telvanni required for her potential Telvanni-Lands questline.

Unfortunately, I suspect that if ZOS does a Telvanni chapter, she will show up like debris washing in on the tide.

Hurbster

I really dislike the 'everything happens at the same time' thing the devs are so proud of.

colossalvoids

I'd love having arcs and consequences but any reoccurring encounter is rendered useless and absolutely killed by "play in any order you like!" nonsense. It would not work the way we want most likely.

Eveli is a great example, from having an arc in Orsinium she turned into akorn-brain in Blackwood that lead people disliking actually pretty well written character from before. She wasn't favourite by any stretch but now it's a Stuga tier material. And remember when Naryu turned up in Morrowind people thought it wasn't a good cameo, oh jolly times, little we knew of what's to come.

Not writing it to go against other posters or the op but if some of the writers ever turning their heads forum side they're should be 100% aware of issues some of us having. Personally I see only two ways out, either we need more new original stories and characters (better new and uninspired than good old and made uninspired) or time line needs to move forward somehow.

Syldras

colossalvoids wrote: »

time line needs to move forward somehow.

It's interesting to think about, actually. According to this clock (that has been around since the start of ESO and counts the day and night cycles in game) we would already be in 2E 618, which means that 36 years have passed since the beginning of the Planemeld.