The Vampire Problem

Thecompton73

Caribou77 wrote: »

NB is overtuned at the moment.

Good old “Learn to play.”

Happy gaming, NB main.

I'd give you an insightful but that had nothing to do with the topic of the post.

Caribou77

Well, thanks. Maybe give me one anyway, for Christmas Spirit?

mmtaniac

They should disable vampirism for atleast month on pvp and test if something will change when this passive go away or not. Can be on battleground only less players but maybe this way we get some data and they finally do something with it, if test like this will not change anything than can be still as it is.

Thecompton73

Caribou77 wrote: »

Well, thanks. Maybe give me one anyway, for Christmas Spirit?

Since I can't really agree that being able to kill people in PvP is "overtuned" I gave you an awesome for Christmas. Like it's awesome you have you own opinion and I can respect that.

Baconlad

So I appreciate the reply from an above poster. And I'm sorry, but under no circumstances should this game strive to a player strictly building health and completely ignoring max stats.

But this is where we are at. The best mitigation in the game right now isn't impen or vampire, heavy armor or block spam. It's max health building (and stealth...but that's another topic...)

You can run three damage sets and 12k mag and stam and 37k health and drop players who have 28k health in two button presses other than light attacks. But to the above poster, that's a problem of the other players, not the game design.

I get it, you want to have a point in the discussion. But this point you made was ridiculous. I don't care if they were CP5 players rocking full light armor in divines, that 37k player should never have been able to have 13k incaps or a 9k surprise strike.

I'll admit that one of those players was me, I was dumbfounded that I had been ganked by a 37k health nightblade! Now I am a glass canon magplar (vampire at that! Stage four, undeath too stronk...). I KNOW what I'm getting into when I step into cyrodiil. I know that I'm a juicy target for a seasoned nightblade, and many times I am. I have no issues with dying to a well placed combo or dying to my own build choices simply not being a dueling or 1vX build. No issues with that. And I also understand that the nightblade that I went up against was clearly a VERY good player at taking great advantage of the systems in place. He knows the importance of the max health. And I have no issue with him!

But why in the world is it acceptable that 37k health player can have those damage numbers? Why would anyone in their right mind defend that capability to be possible and BLAME the players who died to him as being a bad player?

Mind you I am not salty about it, I laughed at it then proceeded to watch as he dropped player after player.

Just a bit peeved that after seeing all of that, then reading this post about undeath passive being overtuned. It shows how so many of this playerbase are incapable looking past their noses at many mechanics or balance phases...which is hopefully all that this is...a phase in balance.

fizzylu

Yeah, sorry haha I find it crazy to see a "nerf vampire" post about anything.... they really got the boot back in Greymoor and undeath is probably the one thing that even makes them slightly useful in PvP at this point. There'd be no reason to be a vampire if they nerfed or removed this passive. Unless you're asking them to go back, rework vampire in it's entirety again, and this time not completely gut it.... then yeah, I'm here for this.... but to change the ONE single thing that makes it not useless.... nah. And this is coming from someone who hasn't been a vampire since Greymoor released so I'm not defending myself here. I just think this game has way more broken things in game right now and undeath doesn't even get near them.
Also I saw someone mention werewolves needing the same love.... and last time I was actively playing PvP, those dogs were practically immortal haha

OBJnoob

The two posts above me are related-- and that's why people are criticizing the undeath passive. Raw HP is a defense all its own, sure, but stacking into it is exponentially more useful with undeath. Some people defending undeath have mentioned that "it isn't 30% all the time, only when you're low health." Yeah... But... If you have 40k HP instead of 20k then undeath is basically twice as useful.

I would like to see vampire reworked in such a way that the passives are less useful and the active abilities are more useful. Back in the day when they changed it it was because of a recovery passive that was too good to pass up and so, with few drawbacks, everybody availed themselves of the opportunity. We have the EXACT same problem now, only it's pvp not PvE this time, and it's defense not sustain. Exact same problem though.

The_Titan_Tim

Undeath is atrocious right now, wildly overperforming, whenever I run into any character that’s not a Werewolf in PvP, and they are struggling, my first two questions are these…

Are you a Vampire? Okay
Are you Stage 3? Perfect

Almost any heavy armor build can offset the increased cost of abilities w/weaved heavy attacks. Which makes you even more of a tank.

One thing to take into consideration though is that if this passive were to be removed or reduced, the burst of some egregious outliers would have to be toned down as Stage 3 is the only tool that keeps you in a fight against 20k Spectral Bows, then there’s the Radiant Destruction problem that would be exacerbated by the counterplay being removed from that ability.

mmtaniac

Have 20k hp with undeath is ok have 40k hp with undeath is op 15% reduction is in different place. Mix it with minor-major prot + armor around 27-33 k and you become unkillable this + every heal scaled from weapon damage wchich mean no need for resources because healing are from damage or max health. It's impossible to kill something like that. Im not telling about my build this is how this unbalanced thing work.

fizzylu

mmtaniac wrote: »

Have 20k hp with undeath is ok have 40k hp with undeath is op 15% reduction is in different place. Mix it with minor-major prot + armor around 27-33 k and you become unkillable this + every heal scaled from weapon damage wchich mean no need for resources because healing are from damage or max health. It's impossible to kill something like that.

Call me crazy.... but sounds like undeath isn't really the issue here haha

Baconlad

Ok...so having higher health makes undeath sooper dooper stronk...but low health doesn't.

But undeath is still the problem? Undeath is a cherry on top to high health, it's not the whole shake. The health is the substance of the problem.

Let's work through this...what do most 35-40k health toons use for weapons? SnB backbar, ok...so let's imagine this your in a duel with a random player in cyrodiil, he has 37k health and SnB backbar. You burst him with every ounce of glass canon you can, you get him to execute range at 15% health and throw the stun, he breaks free and immediately blocks, you execute deals 2k blocked damage, awesome, so let's assume undeath is maxed at 15% health at 30% damage reduction. Reduce that 2k to at a minimum 1400 crit blocked. Now this is basic math, your not getting 30% reduction from vamp due to the way the game adds reduction percentages. So it will be more 1600 crit blocked.

Now...while he's blocking, he's already hit two heals, and his vigor crits for 4k. Then another 4k. Then 2k. All in the time it takes for you to hit three executes...that are blocked. And hes got another heal comming down the pipeline critting its way to victory. He's already out of execute range and your combo is fudged.

Now he's wearing all medium armor and damage sets. He flips and hits you with his combo. But you're fighting your mirror image, exact same build. You get stunned and don't break free and imediatly block...you're dead!

Wierd. Your both vampires, both have high health. I wonder what saved him? Was it undeath? What if he wasn't a vampire? Would he have survived? What if he was using DW to block? Same as SnB? Are the blocking passives THAT good compared to other weapons?

Well...according to my basic math seminar above than yeah...he would have survived without vampire and even resto staff or DW blocking...

Blocking with high health and healing seems to be the issue here that not many executes can deal with.

I saw a glass canon magplar is a recent BG running the same buildnas me, but he wasn't using oakensoul and had SnB on his backbar. You'd have thought he was a tank, dude was unkillable for me with my 140k soul assault and 22k radiant destruction tooltips. I could not keep him in execute phase for more than 1 second before he broke and blocked.

So here...this is some basic math and real life experience. Your turn, prove to me that undeath is too strong. Prove to me and others defending undeath that high health isn't the culprit here.

Baconlad

I'll add to my above post and give a shout out to vigor.

I have played since 2014 and have been in PvP since 2015. Vigor was launched and broke this games balance. And it's only gotten worse with hybridization. The game used to be that mag toons heavily relied on class defense, and stamina could only lightly rely on class defense. Things like DK wings could only be used occasionally with stamina builds. Whereas magic could use it as frequently as they wanted. And the actual heals were useless to stamina due to the way mag abilities didn't scale with stamina and weapon damage.

The trade off was supposed to be that stamina builds could HEAVILY rely on dodge roll and block mechanics, and normally always have the juice to break free, where magic toons could not.

For healing a stamina build at the time really only had two options for heals, they could hit rally or they could hit the SnB bubble heal. But...again they could dodge roll like madmen, or if heavy armor they could block their way to victory.

Then they added vigor, and still to this day you mainly see stamina builds in BGs and cyrodiil. Everything that made stamina builds have to trade off was lost. Their were no tradeoffs at that point...

Then zenimax decided that they were going to open class heals up to EVERYONE! AND HERE WE ARE. There's no reason to go magic based. Run a bit of magic recovery and get all the class based heals you could ever want, still be able to dodge roll more than magic toons, mitigate damage more, cast vigor more (best heal in the game) block longer, have lower costs.

Then zenimax decided to give vigor casts MORE DEFENSE JUST FOR HITTING THE BEST HEAL IN THE GAME...

And we're in here arguing over undeath passive...which has been disproved a thousand times.

Biggest issue is that so many players are playing stamina right now and rely so heavily on that heal...it's never going to get nerfed.

Other than the few elite players that REALLY shine in stamina based cyrodiil no one knows how to use the stamina based defenses and build without vigor in mind.

Last point, what magic class in cyrodiil to you fear right now that you don't fear the stamina based version more? Maybe a bomber? Niche build...for me? There is none, not one magic class brings the damage and defense that the stamina version doesn't have more of. Not one...

And again...lol undeath is the problem were complaining about...

OBJnoob

@Baconlad well in your first post it seems to me that one player has a timely break-free and block-heal and the other doesn't. So... No, vampire isn't the problem in this scenario. One player is better than the other. Not a great scenario.

In your second post you ask what mag toons strike more fear than their stam counterparts. DK, NB, and Warden come to mind. You know, the good ones. Or do you fear DKs that don't use molten whip? Do you fear wardens that use stam beetles and not an ice staff? Do you fear nbs that don't use concealed weapon and the magic (higher damage morph,) of assassin's will?

You can argue that this or that is hybrid but come on... All the good skills are magic. And magic toons can use vigor too.

Baconlad

I'm done.
The numbers in cyrodiil don't lie. Stamina build should never have gotten class morphs for damage. Hybrid changes should never have happened, vigor needs to be removed.

Stamina is the better resource pool, everyone knows it. Medium armor is the better gear type, and medium has the best set bonuses. Bow is the best ranged weapon, and the melee weapons are better than staves. Cheaper skills, higher damage, higher burst. No reason to spec magic resource anymore.

MEBengalsFan2001

HiImRex wrote: »

I very rarely get one shot, neither do most of the people I play with.

If you’re getting one shot by a 37k health nightblade maybe you shouldn’t wear 7 well-fitted because some YouTube build video said you don’t need impen.

This game gives you the unique ability to tailor your build to match the meta. If you study what it took to one shot you, you can figure out a way to prevent it next time.

Or why is it that there are players who rarely get ganked and consistently win fights that you can’t win?

You have access to the exact same set of tools they do. If you don’t want to put in the work to achieve the same level of success then don’t come to the forums and claim it’s a game problem. It’s perfectly understandable why someone wouldn’t want to put in the effort in a video game since it’s just a hobby, but there’s a very thick line between what is a balance issue and a learn to play issue.

NB are so broken this mod and over performing by leaps and bounds.

I was only tanky healer on my back bar that has 45K health, a total of 28% dmg reduction from players, around 30k normal resistance that goes up to about 40K resistance when below 50% health, I was blocking and had multiple HoT on my character. I also was getting RC resistance buff which pushed my resistance up to around 3800.

I got hit by a 15K Dawnbreak and 30K+ AW and died. That is not balanced in the least bit. NB working as intended.

If I had the undead passive I don't think it would make a difference. But the undead passive is strong if you don't use gear or CP that have damage reduction. This passive allows the vampire players to go full damage dealers. Adding mist to this and they become a pain to kill. Best way to kill them is with flame attacks and silver shards.

Thecompton73

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

HiImRex wrote: »

I very rarely get one shot, neither do most of the people I play with.

If you’re getting one shot by a 37k health nightblade maybe you shouldn’t wear 7 well-fitted because some YouTube build video said you don’t need impen.

This game gives you the unique ability to tailor your build to match the meta. If you study what it took to one shot you, you can figure out a way to prevent it next time.

Or why is it that there are players who rarely get ganked and consistently win fights that you can’t win?

You have access to the exact same set of tools they do. If you don’t want to put in the work to achieve the same level of success then don’t come to the forums and claim it’s a game problem. It’s perfectly understandable why someone wouldn’t want to put in the effort in a video game since it’s just a hobby, but there’s a very thick line between what is a balance issue and a learn to play issue.

NB are so broken this mod and over performing by leaps and bounds.

I was only tanky healer on my back bar that has 45K health, a total of 28% dmg reduction from players, around 30k normal resistance that goes up to about 40K resistance when below 50% health, I was blocking and had multiple HoT on my character. I also was getting RC resistance buff which pushed my resistance up to around 3800.

I got hit by a 15K Dawnbreak and 30K+ AW and died. That is not balanced in the least bit. NB working as intended.

If I had the undead passive I don't think it would make a difference. But the undead passive is strong if you don't use gear or CP that have damage reduction. This passive allows the vampire players to go full damage dealers. Adding mist to this and they become a pain to kill. Best way to kill them is with flame attacks and silver shards.

I'm sorry but that seems a bit unlikely.
1) There is absolutely no way with that much resistance you got hit for that much while blocking, it's just not possible.
2) I say that because My 6 medium 1 light armor NB with no other sources of mitigation and only 1100 crit resist very rarely takes that much damage from anyone even when he's NOT blocking. To be clear, I have seen those types of damage numbers on my own death recap but that's a full glass cannon NOT blocking and there are only a handful of players that have hit me that hard.

malistorr

I like vampire the way it is.

Vevvev

Every time people bring up Undeath I have to point out diminishing returns. In PvP with Battle Spirit up and the innate damage resistance players get after the CP rework we have 60% damage mitigation before anything else is added on.

Assuming the player being hit has built up their HP and resistances to account for over penetration and are sitting at 50% additional mitigation we're looking at 80% mitigation. Why 80%? Well, after the original cut of 60% we're left with 40% of the total damage, and 50% of that 40% is 20%. So.... 80% mitigation.

Not even accounting for blocking if you add Undeath to this same train of mitigation while at 50% HP we're looking at 3% additional mitigation.... So... 83% mitigation.... Only 3%. Undeath is more effective the less mitigation you have, and the more you stack, the more sources of mitigation you build, the less effective this passive becomes.

For full on tanks stacking everything they possibly can Undeath is more like a garnish or a cherry on top rather than the bigger problem at the end of the day.

OBJnoob

@Vevvev the thing is it isn't tanks being complained about. It's how "tanky" normal players with normal builds are. The ones that don't need to find bar space for flare or wear a defensive set because they have undeath.

See? Your point works in reverse too. Why get a measly 10% major protection when you can have 30% almost for free. I also understand it isn't the whole 30% all the time, but it's there when it matters.

Also, I'm not sure if your math is correct. I'm not a math guy myself, but you act like everybody is walking around with 80% mitigation just from battle spirit and armor. That may be true compared to the crazy numbers people hit in PvE but it isn't true for someone that's been PvPing for years.

At least it doesn't feel true. Blocking, for instance, is super useful. You make it sound like "well you already have 80% mitigation plus major and minor protection why bother blocking when you're only taking 5% damage anyway?" But blocking cuts damage in HALF. Undeath, similarly, is also more helpful than you're making it out to be. I wonder if battle spirit is even part of the diminishing returns or if it perhaps stands alone.

Or mist form for example. Are you telling me mist form only mitigates 5% damage? Cuz if you hit somebody... Then hit the same person in mist form... I bet the difference between the numbers is more than 5%. I bet it's a LOT more like 75%.

Vevvev

OBJnoob wrote: »

@Vevvev the thing is it isn't tanks being complained about. It's how "tanky" normal players with normal builds are. The ones that don't need to find bar space for flare or wear a defensive set because they have undeath.

See? Your point works in reverse too. Why get a measly 10% major protection when you can have 30% almost for free. I also understand it isn't the whole 30% all the time, but it's there when it matters.

Also, I'm not sure if your math is correct. I'm not a math guy myself, but you act like everybody is walking around with 80% mitigation just from battle spirit and armor. That may be true compared to the crazy numbers people hit in PvE but it isn't true for someone that's been PvPing for years.

At least it doesn't feel true. Blocking, for instance, is super useful. You make it sound like "well you already have 80% mitigation plus major and minor protection why bother blocking when you're only taking 5% damage anyway?" But blocking cuts damage in HALF. Undeath, similarly, is also more helpful than you're making it out to be. I wonder if battle spirit is even part of the diminishing returns or if it perhaps stands alone.

Or mist form for example. Are you telling me mist form only mitigates 5% damage? Cuz if you hit somebody... Then hit the same person in mist form... I bet the difference between the numbers is more than 5%. I bet it's a LOT more like 75%.

I didn't count major or minor protection into that calculation.

That's just base battle spirit + the 10% from the CP rework + max armor ((33,000 soft cap)), and Undeath at the end at it's 15% strength.

If I look at my build which barely has any physical resistances at all (17,248) the numbers come out to around 60% + 26.13% armor + 20% undeath (assuming 33% HP which is where we start really wanting to burst heal or we're super dead.) we come out with 5.8096% mitigation given by Undeath.

60 + 10.452 = 70.952 + 5.8096 = 76.7616% mitigation.

It's really not that much in the grand scheme of things, and that's at the strongest potential power you'll see out of it without factoring in block. If we add in block you might as well not even bother doing the calculation as you'd get maybe 2% mitigation out of it? I don't have the patience to continue doing the calculations factoring in block to.

OBJnoob

@Vevvev Okay so why does your build have undeath at all then?

Because the penalties don't mean anything to you and it's better than not having it, right? Right.

Even people that don't think undeath is good still use it. I can't think of a better reason to nerf it, lol.

Vevvev

OBJnoob wrote: »

@Vevvev Okay so why does your build have undeath at all then?

Because the penalties don't mean anything to you and it's better than not having it, right? Right.

Even people that don't think undeath is good still use it. I can't think of a better reason to nerf it, lol.

The penalties mean a lot actually. I play a Breton Dragonknight which is partially how I get around the flame weakness as Bretons have higher than normal spell resistance which can help mitigate flame.

When fighting Dragonknights and other flame based enemies the Undeath passive only overtakes the flame weakness around the 33-34% HP mark because I run stage 4 vampirism meaning I'm always taking 20% more damage from flame attacks, and I also take an additional 10% more damage from Fighter's Guild abilities.

Other weaknesses people like you forget to include are I have to be low HP to really take good use of Blood for Blood otherwise it's not as useful as other spammables, I can be seen through walls by people who slot Expert Hunter and it's morphs making kiting and being speedy not as effective, I have no HP regeneration at all, using Blood for Blood cuts off all outside healing making using it a tricky proposition in group fights (even with the Pale Order ring), and all my non-vampire skills and ultimate cost 12% more.

Yes, the ultimates cost more to which makes getting the ultimates up and casting them a bit delayed, and even at stage 4 the vampire ultimate costs 254 ultimate which isn't cheap by a long shot. I actually use everything vampire offers and Undeath is a very small part of it as I use the invisibility sprint, 50% cheaper sprinting, on rare occasions the stage 2 passive when popping out of mistform to use a heal (I use Mistform like someone would use Race Against Time or block.), and being a vampire at all times removes the sneak speed penalty.

In my opinion if you know how to counter a vampire they're not that badly balanced, but you have to build for it. Just like you have to build to counter a tanky foe, or build to counter a cloaking ganker. I really don't see the problem here as I've had my butt handed to me plenty of times in this game on my vampire build, and on the same token defeated people who tried exploiting everything vampire had to make it harder to die.

Had one dude try to stalemate me by using Blood Mist, stage 3 vampire, 2 tanking sets, and a tanking monster set. Didn't go well for him because I kept my dots ticking on him, stunned him constantly, and every time he thought he was being clever hiding in Blood Mist and try to keep me in it to heal up he wasn't regenerating stamina, magicka, or health. It was a fight of attrition, a fight he wasn't winning and only made worse by the flame weakness as I play a magDK. He died.

Edit to add:

I also forgot to mention that when you get the greatest benefits from Undeath you're within executioner ability range. You know those abilities that deal over 200% bonus damage to people below 50% HP? Yeah... those... They can easily overpower and cut through Undeath when lined up with an ultimate burst, which is how you kill people in ESO PvP.

IZZEFlameLash

If you actually look at skilled players duel one another, it ends when one of them failed to keep up with healing either because their resource management game wasn't as good as the opponent or they had typical ESO barswap/break free/ability commands not firing issues or they just simply couldn't focus any longer. I fail to see Undeath making a huge difference in this scenario or any common scenarios in any forms of PvP especially when nearly everyone slots some form of executes these days.

OBJnoob

@IZZEFlameLash See I don't see how the prevalence of executes makes undeath any less relevant. Undeath is the strongest when you're in execute range. It's basically the antithesis to executes. It is the MOST relevant under those circumstances.

But honestly since most DKs kill with whip+ulti, frost wardens with whatever they can combine with shalks+ulti, and nbs (the three best pvp classes you may note,) with ulti+assassin's will, I'd say there are more people running undeath than there are running executes. Making it a reason why undeath is too strong, not a reason why it is balanced.

Vevvev

OBJnoob wrote: »

@IZZEFlameLash See I don't see how the prevalence of executes makes undeath any less relevant. Undeath is the strongest when you're in execute range. It's basically the antithesis to executes. It is the MOST relevant under those circumstances.

But honestly since most DKs kill with whip+ulti, frost wardens with whatever they can combine with shalks+ulti, and nbs (the three best pvp classes you may note,) with ulti+assassin's will, I'd say there are more people running undeath than there are running executes. Making it a reason why undeath is too strong, not a reason why it is balanced.

Most relevant, yes, and that's as it should be under the current vampire design of more risk = more reward. (I.E. a vampire does more damage when they're close to death, and the old version of Undeath didn't quite do what it needed to satisfy that gameplay type)

Also when an incoming attack is dealing 200%+ more damage it greatly dwarfs the bonus from Undeath, and you'll never see the full 30% because that 30% = 0% HP.... you're dead.

This whole discussion should be more asking the questions, "What's enabling builds to be as powerful as they are where they can straight up throw caution to the wind, get around the sustain penalties, and not even use the vampire kit in it's totality? Also why are executes not being as used as often as they used to be despite hybridization changes making slotting one even easier than before?"

There's a bigger imbalance here than vampire, and you're just treating the symptoms instead of the actual problem by saying "Nerf Undeath".

OBJnoob

Executes aren't being used as much for a couple different reasons. People complain when weapon skills outdo class skills so ZOS has been on a mission for at least a year making class skills better. Theyve succeeded-- except with templar and sorc I suppose (but you may notice both of those classes have class executes,) and some of the new abilities are so darn good they demand to be slotted and therefore executes don't fit on the bar. Whip and assassin's will come to mind. Wardens don't have an execute (not counting the bear,) and neither does ice staff. Also worth mentioning, I think bloodthirsty has become more popular in that year both as a way to combat undeath and as a way to compensate for lack of an execute.

Some of those abilities do so MUCH damage that your kill combo starts before someone is really in execute range anyway. I don't honestly think hybridization has much to do with it... Nbs always used assassin's will, and even though their execute got buffed (and tbh I do see it sometimes,) most don't use it I think. Whip now has a split cost so perhaps that's a better example.

Also in the vein of "not slotting executes because of bar space," is the fact that a couple class heals have been buffed in that same timeframe, and the "need" for some sort of snare removal and/or major expedition is as high as it's ever been. And don't forget that now everyone has to use vigor as well.

Changing topics now to what is enabling builds to throw caution to the wind and eat the sustain penalties without even using the vampires active toolkit... The active toolkit kinda sucks. And that's the real reason why undeath needs to be nerfed in my opinion. Don't get me wrong-- my magden uses arterial burst, and Lord knows people use mist form, but honestly arterial burst isn't that great and mist form is a terrible joke. What we have now in this vampire model is the same problem we had 1 or 2 years ago when ZOS decided it had to be changed. The stage 2 and stage 3 passives are so useful that people are paying the penalty to acquire them without any other need or desire to be vampire. Instead of mandatory stam and mag recovery now we have mandatory stealth speed/damage and/or undeath.

And honestly you can say what you want about diminishing returns but there's a reason 80% of people say it's OP and mandatory. And I might not be smart enough to talk intelligently about all the numbers but (no offense just being general,) I don't think your epiphany about diminishing returns is going to shake what the meta literally is. Theory doesn't always translate to practice, and we have a real problem not a theoretical one.

MEBengalsFan2001

Thecompton73 wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

HiImRex wrote: »

I very rarely get one shot, neither do most of the people I play with.

If you’re getting one shot by a 37k health nightblade maybe you shouldn’t wear 7 well-fitted because some YouTube build video said you don’t need impen.

This game gives you the unique ability to tailor your build to match the meta. If you study what it took to one shot you, you can figure out a way to prevent it next time.

Or why is it that there are players who rarely get ganked and consistently win fights that you can’t win?

You have access to the exact same set of tools they do. If you don’t want to put in the work to achieve the same level of success then don’t come to the forums and claim it’s a game problem. It’s perfectly understandable why someone wouldn’t want to put in the effort in a video game since it’s just a hobby, but there’s a very thick line between what is a balance issue and a learn to play issue.

NB are so broken this mod and over performing by leaps and bounds.

I was only tanky healer on my back bar that has 45K health, a total of 28% dmg reduction from players, around 30k normal resistance that goes up to about 40K resistance when below 50% health, I was blocking and had multiple HoT on my character. I also was getting RC resistance buff which pushed my resistance up to around 3800.

I got hit by a 15K Dawnbreak and 30K+ AW and died. That is not balanced in the least bit. NB working as intended.

If I had the undead passive I don't think it would make a difference. But the undead passive is strong if you don't use gear or CP that have damage reduction. This passive allows the vampire players to go full damage dealers. Adding mist to this and they become a pain to kill. Best way to kill them is with flame attacks and silver shards.

I'm sorry but that seems a bit unlikely.
1) There is absolutely no way with that much resistance you got hit for that much while blocking, it's just not possible.
2) I say that because My 6 medium 1 light armor NB with no other sources of mitigation and only 1100 crit resist very rarely takes that much damage from anyone even when he's NOT blocking. To be clear, I have seen those types of damage numbers on my own death recap but that's a full glass cannon NOT blocking and there are only a handful of players that have hit me that hard.

The thing I find interesting is that I have a few different builds on my templar. Regardless of the build setup with high or low resistance, one or five damage reduction, etc.. my templar tends to take big damage hits. I jump on my Warden or any other class using the same CP and gear and the damage isn't about 50% of what I get on my templar.

I feel as if my templar is bugged. .

Araneae6537

This is one of the few useful things vampires have left after losing more useful passives and getting ugly skill changes in 2020. I have few vampire characters, but it’s nice to have a viable option for variety, especially as skill are lost or homogenized elsewhere.