Suggestion: Automated tales of tribute gameplay option

kargen27

No

Heelie wrote: »

heinousmoz wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

I am actually working on an addon in this direction, I have built the engine but need to make a good implementation. ESO specifically allows RTA ( Real Time Assistance). My idea here is to make an engine that runs in the background and calculates the best move every turn, it then highlights the best move(s) in game for you to do. Essentially you can play perfect ToT without having to understand or pay attention to the game. The engine is already good enough to hit #1 on the leaderboards and runs at a 85% win rate.

Ah yes. Let's advertise my cheat engine for ToT on the official game forums...

It's not cheating if it is allowed in the Terms of Service, and I did'nt run it in game yet because I wanted to at least run it through a ticket before I did that.

I doubt it is allowed by the Terms of Service agreement. They seem pretty clear about not allowing third party type things that provide unfair advantage or circumvent game play. Maybe it squeaks in as allowed because the player still has to take the action.

Carcamongus

No

That'd mean letting the game do the work for the rewards and achievements for you. I wasn't planning on playing this game at all. As another player wrote in the forums, "I avoided ToT like it was the plague". Eventually I gave it a try, despite finding it very confusing. What helped was to know novice NPCs hardly bother with patrons, so I used trial and error to learn how to gain their favor. Surprisingly, in the process I ended up learning a bit how to play. Despite having had some unexpected victories, such as beating Braigh before I was even formally a master, I still count myself as an incompetent player - which is another reason I don't plan on facing humans in this game: if I want to get my posterior kicked, there's always Cyrodiil.

While I did manage to have fun with ToT, I still play it as a means to an end: the rewards, especially the tapestries and Pelin style pages. It would feel wrong to have the machine do the hard work for me.

tsaescishoeshiner

No

Heelie wrote: »

I am actually working on an addon in this direction, I have built the engine but need to make a good implementation. ESO specifically allows RTA ( Real Time Assistance). My idea here is to make an engine that runs in the background and calculates the best move every turn, it then highlights the best move(s) in game for you to do. Essentially you can play perfect ToT without having to understand or pay attention to the game. The engine is already good enough to hit #1 on the leaderboards and runs at a 85% win rate.

Please, please don't play real games against people using this program, or release it for others to use. It would drastically change how it feels to play games in the queue—for the worse. Imagine if people knew that there are ToT bots out there in ladder, and that people might be losing to it?

No one likes cheating in any ranked or unranked environment. Players shouldn't have to get beaten by a bot so a player who doesn't like Tribute can get their achievement boxes checked.

It's 100% cheating even if it's not actually playing the cards. I want to give credit for having good intentions, but on second thought, the intention was to create a cheat engine.

InappropriateMount

Heelie wrote: »

It's not cheating if it is allowed in the Terms of Service, and I did'nt run it in game yet because I wanted to at least run it through a ticket before I did that.

Unacceptable behaviors will also include any conduct that is considered by ZeniMax to be cheating (e.g. match fixing and collusion) or other unsportsmanlike conduct such as use of secondary accounts, intentionally losing and bribery.

Quote from the Code of Conduct, section 5.2, it doesn't make a direct reference to the situation at hand but I can see the addon that calculates the best move and highlights it falling under unsportsmanlike behavior because it is unsportmanslike behaviour.

Or depending on how this 'addon' works, ZOS will end up limiting the api addons have access to. There was an addon that used in PVP to tell you when another player was starting a channel like snipe and other info that gave an unfair advantage to the user, so ZOS limited the api the addons have access to prevent that from being exploited.

I don't even play ToT, an addon like this would ruin the game and make a joke out of the rankings. Like there's a reason chess engines are considered cheating in chess

ApoAlaia

Yes

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

I am actually working on an addon in this direction, I have built the engine but need to make a good implementation. ESO specifically allows RTA ( Real Time Assistance). My idea here is to make an engine that runs in the background and calculates the best move every turn, it then highlights the best move(s) in game for you to do. Essentially you can play perfect ToT without having to understand or pay attention to the game. The engine is already good enough to hit #1 on the leaderboards and runs at a 85% win rate.

Please, please don't play real games against people using this program, or release it for others to use. It would drastically change how it feels to play games in the queue—for the worse. Imagine if people knew that there are ToT bots out there in ladder, and that people might be losing to it?

No one likes cheating in any ranked or unranked environment. Players shouldn't have to get beaten by a bot so a player who doesn't like Tribute can get their achievement boxes checked.

It's 100% cheating even if it's not actually playing the cards. I want to give credit for having good intentions, but on second thought, the intention was to create a cheat engine.

I think this is one of those cases where OP, in focusing on if they could lost sight of if they should.

Catagami

No

Heelie wrote: »

I am actually working on an addon in this direction, I have built the engine but need to make a good implementation. ESO specifically allows RTA ( Real Time Assistance). My idea here is to make an engine that runs in the background and calculates the best move every turn, it then highlights the best move(s) in game for you to do. Essentially you can play perfect ToT without having to understand or pay attention to the game. The engine is already good enough to hit #1 on the leaderboards and runs at a 85% win rate.

This definitely shouldn't be released in game.
However, getting a bit sidetracked here, releasing your engine independently or on a website like codingame would be amazing, letting everyone write their own bots that can than face each other.

zaria

Other

I would rater just speed up the AI part of it, you spend half of the time waiting for the computer to do its moves.

Stinkyremy

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

If you're trying to play to get mail rewards and the NPC achievements, you can play against the NPCs without learning the actual game.

Here's how: The NPCs are bad at flipping the patrons to prevent you from getting a patron victory. And there's no punishment for abandoning an NPC game. So if the NPC picks even a single patron that's hard to cheese them with an early patron victory (ie Psijics, Pelin, Orgnum), just abandon the game and restart. Restart until you get only easy patrons to flip. I recommend unlocking Ansei Frandar Hunding first, as that's an easy one to do this with. Rajhin helps, too. Of the base ones, Crow and Hlaalu are the easy ones.

Doing this I could win a match in under 2 minutes, which was pretty nice farming.

I do this against the NPCs but what I do if they give me a paron I find it hard to flip normally just the blue, I force them to buy an agent card by buying everything else but agents.

Major_Soulless

No

Personally I can’t come up with any reason why I’d have the automation play the game for me instead of myself so I voted no

Cadbury

Yes

DocFrost72

I'm trying to think of a way this wouldn't be abused by bots to farm gold if rewards were left in. If you want to "auto-resolve" this, I think that's fine. I don't agree with putting any rewards at all in it, to include leveling ToT level.

Molydeus

No

Why don't we just have ZOS send all in-game rewards straight to our mailboxes without having to do anything to achieve them? Why bother killing bosses? Let's just click a box for gear and have it magically appear in our inventory. Why even play the game?

MagicalLija

No

why though? if you can't be bothered to play it then don't play it?

Nestor

No

I can't get behind the whole Wanting the Rewards but Don't Want to Spend the Effort approach

Jarl_Ironheart

No

No way in oblivion. The only way I'd allow this is it disables achievements, both in game and Xbox ones and you get zero rewards for it. Next thing we know people will asking for self playing dungeon fights...

Amottica

No

No. We choose to play the game or not play the game. I have no interest in playing the card game and it is a choice just as OP is making a choice to play or not play.

If Zenimax did this they might as well make the entire game automated so we did not have to learn to play ESO combat. The game already has AI to control our companions which can be used to control our characters in combat. We could just sit back and watch the action unfold. Oh, might as well just put on a movie instead.

Arunei

No

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

I agree. Those of us with less than zero interest in ToT should be able to get through the basic ToT quests without having to learn how to play the game.

Why? Why should you be allowed to do anything relating to ToT without actually learning the basics?

Arunei

No

InappropriateMount wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

It's not cheating if it is allowed in the Terms of Service, and I did'nt run it in game yet because I wanted to at least run it through a ticket before I did that.

Unacceptable behaviors will also include any conduct that is considered by ZeniMax to be cheating (e.g. match fixing and collusion) or other unsportsmanlike conduct such as use of secondary accounts, intentionally losing and bribery.

Quote from the Code of Conduct, section 5.2, it doesn't make a direct reference to the situation at hand but I can see the addon that calculates the best move and highlights it falling under unsportsmanlike behavior because it is unsportmanslike behaviour.

Or depending on how this 'addon' works, ZOS will end up limiting the api addons have access to. There was an addon that used in PVP to tell you when another player was starting a channel like snipe and other info that gave an unfair advantage to the user, so ZOS limited the api the addons have access to prevent that from being exploited.

I don't even play ToT, an addon like this would ruin the game and make a joke out of the rankings. Like there's a reason chess engines are considered cheating in chess

Idk, I could see an addon like this as being match fixing as well, since it allegedly points out the best moves to make.

Deter1UK

Fenris_Arainai wrote: »

I don't like it, so I don't play it. But watching it play itself on my screen would be even more boring than actually playing it. So no.

All I ask is to have "skip" option in future quests, like the one in Galen. I shouldn't have to growl as my computer screen for 30 minutes to lose, then be told "oh well, let's do it differently". I want to always have the option to do it differently without the growling part.

Oh so much THIS.

That was a bad day for my sanity!

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

This thread has been moved to the Tales of Tribute section, as it is better suited there.

Thank you for your understanding.

rbfrgsp

When you don't want to play the game, you should be logging out, not getting the ai to play for you

FlopsyPrince

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

If you're trying to play to get mail rewards and the NPC achievements, you can play against the NPCs without learning the actual game.

Here's how: The NPCs are bad at flipping the patrons to prevent you from getting a patron victory. And there's no punishment for abandoning an NPC game. So if the NPC picks even a single patron that's hard to cheese them with an early patron victory (ie Psijics, Pelin, Orgnum), just abandon the game and restart. Restart until you get only easy patrons to flip. I recommend unlocking Ansei Frandar Hunding first, as that's an easy one to do this with. Rajhin helps, too. Of the base ones, Crow and Hlaalu are the easy ones.

Doing this I could win a match in under 2 minutes, which was pretty nice farming.

Like I would want to spend so much time to have to bail because I suck at the game and am losing. What a waste of time to put this into the game.

NeKryXe

No

Is this a joke? Why would anyone pay for a game to let it play automatically? It's crazy!

I'm really, really bad on Cyrodiil, I'm the worst PVP player ever! And I tried, I really tried. But I'm bad at it. So, I just don't play there anymore or, if I do, I'm already aware that I'm going to lose all fights. That's how it is. If there was an option to put an AI playing for me on Cyrodiil, I'm pretty sure that even the worse AI would be better than me. But what was the point? I would continue being a really bad player, but now also a really bad loser.

There's so much to do in this game. You don't need to do everything. You can chose what to play and what to skip. That's a great thing.

NeKryXe

No

Heelie wrote: »

I am actually working on an addon in this direction, I have built the engine but need to make a good implementation. ESO specifically allows RTA ( Real Time Assistance). My idea here is to make an engine that runs in the background and calculates the best move every turn, it then highlights the best move(s) in game for you to do. Essentially you can play perfect ToT without having to understand or pay attention to the game. The engine is already good enough to hit #1 on the leaderboards and runs at a 85% win rate.

Let us know here when you release the addon publicly so I'll never play this game in rank again.

By the way, if 1000 players use this cheat, how would them all hit #1 on the leaderboards?

Necrotech_Master

NeKryXe wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

I am actually working on an addon in this direction, I have built the engine but need to make a good implementation. ESO specifically allows RTA ( Real Time Assistance). My idea here is to make an engine that runs in the background and calculates the best move every turn, it then highlights the best move(s) in game for you to do. Essentially you can play perfect ToT without having to understand or pay attention to the game. The engine is already good enough to hit #1 on the leaderboards and runs at a 85% win rate.

Let us know here when you release the addon publicly so I'll never play this game in rank again.

By the way, if 1000 players use this cheat, how would them all hit #1 on the leaderboards?

if it doesnt get banned outright, then i would assume it would be like playing 2 chess AI for 1000s of matches and the number 1 spot would likely be changing all the time lol

SilverBride

No

I hope they don't allow an addon that plays ToT for the player. That is not fair and not in the spirit of competition.

NeKryXe

No

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

NeKryXe wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

I am actually working on an addon in this direction, I have built the engine but need to make a good implementation. ESO specifically allows RTA ( Real Time Assistance). My idea here is to make an engine that runs in the background and calculates the best move every turn, it then highlights the best move(s) in game for you to do. Essentially you can play perfect ToT without having to understand or pay attention to the game. The engine is already good enough to hit #1 on the leaderboards and runs at a 85% win rate.

Let us know here when you release the addon publicly so I'll never play this game in rank again.

By the way, if 1000 players use this cheat, how would them all hit #1 on the leaderboards?

if it doesnt get banned outright, then i would assume it would be like playing 2 chess AI for 1000s of matches and the number 1 spot would likely be changing all the time lol

No. It's not like playing chess with an AI, it's like playing chess with a cheater. And if the addon doesn't get banned, I'll ban the game myself at my end, I'll also cancel my ESO+ sub and probably will not invest any more money in this game.

I've been enjoying playing ToT even with all the problems it has, but usually I lose interest in competitive games faster when cheating is allowed than when bugs are not fixed.

SilverBride

No

The funny (not really) thing is my friend has sworn some of the opponents he was playing were using some automated program to play the game for them. I kept telling him he was wrong but I may owe him an apology.

NeKryXe

No

SilverBride wrote: »

The funny (not really) thing is my friend has sworn some of the opponents he was playing were using some automated program to play the game for them. I kept telling him he was wrong but I may owe him an apology.

Oh! I remember you telling that. Yeah! Looks like it's real.

I'd like to know what Zos thinks about this. If this is allowed then it's the end of PVP on ToT, and they'll risk to have the game being played only by NPCs against NPCs.

I'm very, very interested in finding out how this is going to end.

SilverBride

No

NeKryXe wrote: »

I'd like to know what Zos thinks about this...

That makes two of us.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin Would something like this be allowed?