No AH, not happy about this

Greydog

Censorious wrote: »

The whole guild-shop-PvP-keep link is an interesting experiment. I'm all for it.

Except that only a few guilds will be able to take advantage of it ..and then only while they are able to hold it uncontested.

SpieleNerd

Sarenia wrote: »

Well don't worry too much. Most likely, ZOS will cave to the people crying for flying pandas and auction houses in a year or so, and we can all play Skycraft.

that is my biggest fear, lets just PRAY this wont happen ...

KerinKor

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Playing solo and needing an auction house are kind of mutually exclusive, aren't they?.

Er, why?

I see no correlation between solo/group play and the existence of an in-game economy. If anything, the more of a 'soloer' you are the less 'friends' you'll likely have so the more you'll miss an AH to get gear, crafting mats, etc. from.

stevar

Play the game a bit , get used to it.
You ll see,once you get to a level you have something worth selling, you'll enjoy the possibilities of shops and others.

And yes some guilds are already up there trading for you.

daneyulebub17_ESO

Hate the idea of an Auction House. Ruins economies, kills the minimum social requirement that should be a basic part of an MMO, makes it too easy to buy your way through the game, encourages gold farming, and tends to lead to inflation as people sell to the rich and leave the newbies/poor behind. Much better to have a system where people interact, with the potential for barter/haggling rather than staring at the faceless AH interface and buying from people they never say a word to at whatever the arbitrary price of the week is.

So far, generally happy with the hard decisions the game is making: No global AH, subscription only, no face rolling through mobs. Those kind of decisions generate a lot of crying from the casual Free to Play types, but what make an MMO actually fun and challenging for the long term.

khai

@Lazarus_Long, Heh, no worries! Glad you liked it.

Back on topic, I have to agree with @Noxxys, on page one. An AH might make things faster and easier... but it's counterintuitive to building a unified, immersive experience. A lot of the changes they've made have been with the goal of drawing players into the game world. They want people to interact with NPCs and other players alike. An AH is impersonal.

Additionally, as much as people are saying this is a huge change... ESO isn't the first place to do this, so it's hardly fair to take it out on this game, alone. Just look at what Blizard did in Diablo. They had an auction house, and it broke the game so much, that they got rid of it. Taking away features is far worse than never putting them in, so give ZOS some credit.

Maybe they do need to keep working on the trading system. But I'd rather see things like @Cayce_of_Kata 's suggtion — the Ragnarok Online system of stalls — than something totally immersion- and game-breaking.

Kenthros

SoulSeekerUSA wrote: »

I don't want to join a guild I like solo play, another reason I bought the game was because I had heard it was leaning more towards solo players since the Elder Scroll games were always single player.

Then don't join a guild and continue to play solo. Every character can craft and gather everything. So make a character devoted to crafting and gathering, that way you can play solo and make all of your own gear.

Nox_Aeterna

Sarajlija wrote: »

Im glad there is no AH. D3 was a fine example on how AH ruined a game.

Thankfully after the D3:RoS release the game feels good again.

First: I could not even lvl my crusader to 70 in RoS because of how boring it is.

Second: Indeed , it was a mistake for D3 to add an AH , because is an ARPG. ESO is a MMORPG.

People go play D3 and expect trading , which they still removed with BoA heh :P , way to go blizz , people go to play a MMO and expect a AH , it is that simple.

tallenn

What? Playing solo and trading with other players is mutually exclusive? In what universe??? Do you hang out with the check out lady at your supermarket? Is you Walmart greeter one of the members of your poker night? In what way AT ALL does trading having to do with the rest of the game?

To the OP: You're going to have to give it a couple of months for the ill-considered guild store system to fail miserably. They obviously didn't think it through, but trust me, they are ADAMANT about trying it, and won't hear one tiny argument about using a better system.until it's been shown to utterly fail. Anyone that knows anything about free market economics knows without equivocation that it will, but good luck convincing ZOS Devs of that. For whatever reason, they are enamored with it.

Greydog

Diablo is not an mmo and therefore is not comparable. (iirc it was also a real money AH ..no wonder it failed)

Merchant stalls are a great idea and I'm all for it, but this map wasn't built for it. and I'd hate to see what thousands of player npc's standing around would look like. Which is why I suggested regional or alliance Bazaars where guilds would place npc merchants.

ManiacMcLaughton

Noxxys wrote: »

I'm against auction houses in MMOs for these reasons:
- breaks immersion
- makes the game too easy
- makes exploration and good loots almost obsolete
- destroys the economy of the game after a few months
- increases the gap between new players and veterans, as the latter can just buy all their high quality gear in the AH because of they have more money

There are a ton more reasons, but these are the headliners. They are bringing back personal interaction.. You want crafted goods? Craft the goods, or find someone that does. AH's make the game very impersonal, and they basically encourage players to never speak to each other.

This game is VERY solo friendly in a lot of areas.. but its also a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER Online RPG. you are going to need to interact with people in this game. Sorry if you don't like it, but it was their decision. [snip]

[edited for baiting]

RustyBlades

Judging by the number of extra NPCs around most bankers, an AH might be coming in the next(tm) patch after the next patch. Of course, in an RP Elder Scrolls sense, there wasn't an AH in any of the lore...

dannomite82

I like not having an AH... promotes the idea of trading and guilds. Rather than having people mess with the economy, you can form a trade guild and regulate members.

Marviah

I'm actually happy that they decided that go away from the auction house system. Always felt like auction houses are easy mode, trading with people face to face makes the game more immersive and adds more socializing which MMORPGs are seriously lacking atm.

SirLee

mutharex wrote: »

People, check facts before preordering a game... No AH is good. Games with Global AH have really crappy, inflationated economies

Having one or not in no way effects whether the economy is inflationary. Having sufficient money sinks and other ways to take looted/earned money out of the economy are what effects inflation. When players have piles of gold sitting around doing nothing, MMO's economies will have inflation.

You can see this in Diablo 2, Everquest, and other such games that have no AH but still have inflation.

What an Auction House or other such mechanism allows , is for easy trading between supplier and customer. You can spend your time actually playing the game instead of sitting in a chat channel spaming what you are selling. Or worse yet trying to find what you need in all that spam.

It also makes it a lot easier to try out new builds and equipment combos. That strange piece of gear that no one seems to want and is vendored 99% of the time, may be critical to your test build. You would have a good chance of finding it on the AH, and almost none in a chat based economy. Chat selling takes so much time and energy, people will only do it for those items that offer the best return ans most assured sell.

There is a reason most players like the Auction House. It is a nice and convenient way to sell and buy stuff, that does not involve spending more time spaming a trade channel than actually playing the game.

GholarDraki

These two posts sum up my thoughts exactly. I couldn't have put it any better myself and they deserve to keep being brought up in this thread to be used as a counter-argument to the pro-AH players.

#1

Heals wrote: »

Noxxys wrote: »

I'm against auction houses in MMOs for these reasons:
- breaks immersion
- makes the game too easy
- makes exploration and good loots almost obsolete
- destroys the economy of the game after a few months
- increases the gap between new players and veterans, as the latter can just buy all their high quality gear in the AH because of they have more money

I whole heartily agree with all of these bullet points. This game does not need an AH. Just join one of the numerous trading guilds in your Alliance and you have access to bulk materials. Some of them even have websites setup where you can purchase from other Alliances. Mail is not faction-only so items can be sent COD.

#2

daynendrakeson wrote: »

I don't see the harm in having no AH. WoW was the first game I played that had one, and while it did open up trading opportunities, it also allowed some serious economic abuse. I know a guy who literally monopolized the entire economy of several servers within weeks of deciding to do so. Couldn't have done it with no AH. Double-edged sword and all that.

I gravitated to ESO because of my ES experience, and every feature that sets this game apart from the mainstream while keeping loyal to ES is a good thing to me. The fact that we even have phrases like "MMO clone" is a hint that the genre needs change, and it gives me hope to see ESO make it's choices based on it's own needs and ambitions, and not just because everyone else is doing the same thing. What works best for ESO isn't going to be what works best for WoW, and what one thinks players want isn't always going to be what they really need. Otherwise, the genre would be monopolized by Blizzard; why make other games if WoW is perfect? Why seek other games to play if you think it's superior? The answer lies above.

Also, for the "veterans" out there--what you're used to isn't necessarily the best thing for you. Change can be good, if embraced without bias and judged on it's own merits. I say: forget WoW, EQ, and...whatever other MMO's you've come from. Play ESO, enjoy it as is, and let your experience tell you whether you actually like it or not BEFORE you call out mistakes in comparison to what's come before. The point of every new game is to evolve from it's predecessors and show us something better.

I say, so far so good.

Greydog

Noxxys wrote: »

[snip]

So ..because someone may be a bit introverted and does not want to interact on the same level you do ..or simply wants to play their game without the hassle of farting around for hours ...they are scum?

[edited to remove quote]

Kolache

Its not enough to just say whether you personally like or dislike something.. one must represent a silent majority that will judge success or failure.

Kolache

SirLee wrote: »

You can see this in Diablo 2, Everquest, and other such games that have no AH but still have inflation.
. . .
There is a reason most players like the Auction House. It is a nice and convenient way to sell and buy stuff, that does not involve spending more time spaming a trade channel than actually playing the game.

Speaking of Diablo, what do you think of Diablo 3 recently removing its Auction House despite "most players" wanting it? If you were aware of this happening, do you understand why Blizzard did it? Short version: it negatively impacted gameplay.

Nox_Aeterna

Kolache wrote: »

SirLee wrote: »

You can see this in Diablo 2, Everquest, and other such games that have no AH but still have inflation.
. . .
There is a reason most players like the Auction House. It is a nice and convenient way to sell and buy stuff, that does not involve spending more time spaming a trade channel than actually playing the game.

Speaking of Diablo, what do you think of Diablo 3 recently removing its Auction House despite "most players" wanting it? If you were aware of this happening, do you understand why Blizzard did it? Short version: it negatively impacted gameplay.

it is getting tiresome , i wish people would think harder before they runned their mouths.

Diablo = ARPG.

ESO = MMORPG.

What you are saying goes pretty like this:

I have a plan , lets add a AH to a single player game like skyrim , since it is single player , IT WILL DO NOTHING , god ... AH clearly do nothing in any genre.

MMORPG is not ARPG , stop talking like diablo proved anything , it does not.

Kolache

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Kolache wrote: »

SirLee wrote: »

You can see this in Diablo 2, Everquest, and other such games that have no AH but still have inflation.
. . .
There is a reason most players like the Auction House. It is a nice and convenient way to sell and buy stuff, that does not involve spending more time spaming a trade channel than actually playing the game.

Speaking of Diablo, what do you think of Diablo 3 recently removing its Auction House despite "most players" wanting it? If you were aware of this happening, do you understand why Blizzard did it? Short version: it negatively impacted gameplay.

it is getting tiresome , i wish people would think harder before they runned their mouths.

Diablo = ARPG.

ESO = MMORPG.

What you are saying goes pretty like this:

I have a plan , lets add a AH to a single player game like skyrim , since it is single player , IT WILL DO NOTHING , god ... AH clearly do nothing in any genre.

MMORPG is not ARPG , stop talking like diablo proved anything , it does not.

So you're saying that a multiplayer online action RPG's AH that was heavily used is about as similar to a MMORPG's AH as a single player RPG's AH would be? That's it, you're in time-out.

Nox_Aeterna

Kolache wrote: »

So you're saying that a multiplayer online action RPG's AH that was heavily used is about as similar to a MMORPG's AH as a single player RPG's AH would be? That's it, you're in time-out.

Yes , pretty much it is.

They are different genres , adding AH to diablo was a stupid idea , tons of players kept saying that to blizz , ofc they did it anyway and then took almost 2 years to remove it.

Diablo games are pretty much about loot , it is a small world where you keep running the same content over and over just to gather gear. Ofc , in D2 you could also trade which helped , D3 you better pray to lady luck.

SoulSeekerUSA

I look at a global AH as a convenience, like I said when I started this thread, I want to play the game not play merchant. I like an AH because of how easy it is to use and how it takes up as little time as possible from playing the main game. From what I have found out about what ESO is doing is just the opposite. They are making it as inconvenient as possible. I don't want to have to hunt to sell something or if I need some bulk mats. I want to know where to go and get what I need and be done with it.

And for those of you that say an AH does not work, well WOW has been around for a very long time and it has a great AH.

Myrdreth

Marviah wrote: »

I'm actually happy that they decided that go away from the auction house system. Always felt like auction houses are easy mode, trading with people face to face makes the game more immersive and adds more socializing which MMORPGs are seriously lacking atm.

I feel the same. I am happy that we don't have an auction house. Somehow they always spoil the fun.

Greydog

Who's fun?

Not having one spoils mine

Thesiren

I run a small family/friends guild with our kids in it too. We don't want strangers in our guild just to hit some body count quota to be able to sell items or get 500 guild bank storage. We also don't want lots of strangers seeing our account logins, which you are forced to also show in a guild window, nor do we want 24/7 walls of guild chat spam from some big guild we don't even want to be in, just so we can sell and store mats.

Each person pays the same amount to play this game. Zenimax should not exclude part of the population from playing it to its fullest. That's one way to minimize the importance of this game to that segment of people-- maybe they might even quit playing it if their characters can't be as well equipped as the big guilds are because of it. How nice, especially in a game with such a large open PVP area in it.

In such a crafting-heavy game, they need to provide the means to store mats and sell wares to EVERYONE.

Also, allowing small guilds to sell as well will keep the market more stable than allowing a few megaguilds to completely own it, as it is now.