Status Update on Server Code Redesign?

blktauna

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

brylars wrote: »

They are needing to do this and develop their new game, Starfield. Which one do you think is going to be the priority now? The tech industry is having labor issues and MMOs are struggling to keep players because they are all doing the same thing, the same mistakes.

I figured we are at the "take it or leave it stage" of this relationship. Personally, I am going to "take it." I have too much money, time, and friendships invested in the game to leave it now. I will probably stay till they flip the switch.

I will not even consider buying another ZOS product unless they fix ESO, as they have said "they are working on it" for quite some time now. It doesn't matter how good any of their new products might be. If they don't fix ESO it will be the last ZOS product I will have spent money on....and I've spent a lot of money on ESO just to be let down these last couple years.

You understand ZoS has nothing to do with Starfield right.

Bethesda and ZOS aren't doing business under the same roof?

Bethesda is in Rockville MD and Zenimax in Hunt Valley, MD. Different entities but under the same parent company.

TechMaybeHic

I was going to be snarky but I'm just glad somethings happening. I'll save the snark for among friends

Thank you for the update and I hope all goes well.

React

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

One of our main priorities right now is upgrading the remaining server hardware which is still ongoing and on track - we'll have an update on the timeline before the end of the year. We have also been working on the re-architecture we originally mentioned earlier this year. It's worth noting this isn't a single item that will go into an individual update, but contains many smaller pieces that will be released over multiple updates starting next year.

Thank you for this update, @ZOS_GinaBruno . Ihope you'll take the time to read what I have to say here.

I will say, this makes me feel like we have been misled. The original post from @ZOS_MattFiror said that this project began in late 2021, and would take "much of 2022".

ZOS_MattFiror wrote: »

expect this to take up much of 2022.

To now hear that the project may not be complete until the end of 2023 is a massive setback in comparison to what we were initially led to believe. It feels like this disappointment could have been avoided if there was any consistent communication at all about the project over the past 11 months. That being said, it is good to hear that the project is still underway, but going forward I do not think the community will be satisfied with vague and sparse updates such as this.

There was recently a video released by @FrankonPC (better known as "Isthereno1else"), where they went over very similar development/communications problems in other popular mmos, and how the developers rectified those issues and created a community that trusts them to do the right thing. I highly reccomend that video be shared internally so that perhaps some of those solutions might be applied to our community. Frank is clear and concise with the points in his video, and it really shows that he cares about the game and wants it to succeed.

I think it is very important to mention this; PC NA's servers are becoming extremely laggy every single night in cyrodiil again. I noticed that you mentioned the priority level of replacing the servers, and I just wanted to make it very clear based on the extensive experience I've had playing on these new servers recently; the relief from the performance issues that the new servers brought was seemingly only temporary, and we are rapidly degrading back to poor performance.

https://youtu.be/xeKj4V8vkVY

Cryptor

It's a big undertaking on core backend systems. This has to be very well planned, flawlessly implemented, and most importantly tested, tested again and triple-tested. This is not something they can rush, please don't expect updates until all the solutions are set in stone and well on their way to be implemented. It would just not make any sense to mislead player base. Some of the technical back-end solutions that are initially looked at will turn up not to be as beneficial as originally expected and some of these things they will have to re-think and re-do. This is not as simple as "this solution here will make everything better", some times you do come across unexpected complications which will further delay the deployment of the complete solution.

blktauna

Cryptor wrote: »

It's a big undertaking on core backend systems. This has to be very well planned, flawlessly implemented, and most importantly tested, tested again and triple-tested. This is not something they can rush, please don't expect updates until all the solutions are set in stone and well on their way to be implemented. It would just not make any sense to mislead player base. Some of the technical back-end solutions that are initially looked at will turn up not to be as beneficial as originally expected and some of these things they will have to re-think and re-do. This is not as simple as "this solution here will make everything better", some times you do come across unexpected complications which will further delay the deployment of the complete solution.

Very true. But they've had several years to plan this (which I certainly hope was done) during the vaunted 'Year of improvement". We all know the code is spaghetti and if you look at it wrong, all manner of things will happen. (see seige in cyrodill recently) but One would hope that during that year of improvement the items that had been discovered would have made it into the backlog so there was a solid starting point to begin. I know I kept a log of "if we get the chance to redo this" items which I used in down time to try to address or get those who could deal with it to address.

I also worry about their QA systems. I swear it looks like they just do unit tests then merge the branch and there's nothing after that till PTS. Then they tinker after PTS and unit test then merge. That's the only explanation I could see for the last mishaps as we didn't see them on PTS but they sure showed up live. That's a bad habit that, if that's what's happening, should be discouraged.

If they just started doing the research for a full rewrite on Matt's announcement, It will literally be years. It would be beneficial to know which it is here. Because if they just stared researching, I'm not going to make any plans on it.

Oakenaxe

Everytime I see that

React wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

One of our main priorities right now is upgrading the remaining server hardware which is still ongoing and on track - we'll have an update on the timeline before the end of the year. We have also been working on the re-architecture we originally mentioned earlier this year. It's worth noting this isn't a single item that will go into an individual update, but contains many smaller pieces that will be released over multiple updates starting next year.

Thank you for this update, @ZOS_GinaBruno . Ihope you'll take the time to read what I have to say here.

I will say, this makes me feel like we have been misled. The original post from @ZOS_MattFiror said that this project began in late 2021, and would take "much of 2022".

ZOS_MattFiror wrote: »

expect this to take up much of 2022.

To now hear that the project may not be complete until the end of 2023 is a massive setback in comparison to what we were initially led to believe. It feels like this disappointment could have been avoided if there was any consistent communication at all about the project over the past 11 months. That being said, it is good to hear that the project is still underway, but going forward I do not think the community will be satisfied with vague and sparse updates such as this.

There was recently a video released by @FrankonPC (better known as "Isthereno1else"), where they went over very similar development/communications problems in other popular mmos, and how the developers rectified those issues and created a community that trusts them to do the right thing. I highly reccomend that video be shared internally so that perhaps some of those solutions might be applied to our community. Frank is clear and concise with the points in his video, and it really shows that he cares about the game and wants it to succeed.

I think it is very important to mention this; PC NA's servers are becoming extremely laggy every single night in cyrodiil again. I noticed that you mentioned the priority level of replacing the servers, and I just wanted to make it very clear based on the extensive experience I've had playing on these new servers recently; the relief from the performance issues that the new servers was seemingly only temporary, and we are rapidly degrading back to poor performance.

https://youtu.be/xeKj4V8vkVY

I feel the exact same way, the lack of communication is what is diminishing my trust/enthusiasm with this game. I don't mind waiting for something that is being worked on to improve things in the future, I understand such changes take time, but the lack of updates makes me wonder if anything is being done at all. Look at how things are going this year: bad reception regarding U35 changes, players begging for explanations, Q&A promised that never happened and turned into meme. Cyrodiil's performance (and combat/balance overall) growing increasingly worse and no word at all to the PvP community since Matt's last statement. Should I really be putting my faith in this game?

gariondavey

React wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

One of our main priorities right now is upgrading the remaining server hardware which is still ongoing and on track - we'll have an update on the timeline before the end of the year. We have also been working on the re-architecture we originally mentioned earlier this year. It's worth noting this isn't a single item that will go into an individual update, but contains many smaller pieces that will be released over multiple updates starting next year.

Thank you for this update, @ZOS_GinaBruno . Ihope you'll take the time to read what I have to say here.

I will say, this makes me feel like we have been misled. The original post from @ZOS_MattFiror said that this project began in late 2021, and would take "much of 2022".

ZOS_MattFiror wrote: »

expect this to take up much of 2022.

To now hear that the project may not be complete until the end of 2023 is a massive setback in comparison to what we were initially led to believe. It feels like this disappointment could have been avoided if there was any consistent communication at all about the project over the past 11 months. That being said, it is good to hear that the project is still underway, but going forward I do not think the community will be satisfied with vague and sparse updates such as this.

There was recently a video released by @FrankonPC (better known as "Isthereno1else"), where they went over very similar development/communications problems in other popular mmos, and how the developers rectified those issues and created a community that trusts them to do the right thing. I highly reccomend that video be shared internally so that perhaps some of those solutions might be applied to our community. Frank is clear and concise with the points in his video, and it really shows that he cares about the game and wants it to succeed.

I think it is very important to mention this; PC NA's servers are becoming extremely laggy every single night in cyrodiil again. I noticed that you mentioned the priority level of replacing the servers, and I just wanted to make it very clear based on the extensive experience I've had playing on these new servers recently; the relief from the performance issues that the new servers was seemingly only temporary, and we are rapidly degrading back to poor performance.

https://youtu.be/xeKj4V8vkVY

Great post!

Jaraal

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

brylars wrote: »

They are needing to do this and develop their new game, Starfield. Which one do you think is going to be the priority now? The tech industry is having labor issues and MMOs are struggling to keep players because they are all doing the same thing, the same mistakes.

I figured we are at the "take it or leave it stage" of this relationship. Personally, I am going to "take it." I have too much money, time, and friendships invested in the game to leave it now. I will probably stay till they flip the switch.

I will not even consider buying another ZOS product unless they fix ESO, as they have said "they are working on it" for quite some time now. It doesn't matter how good any of their new products might be. If they don't fix ESO it will be the last ZOS product I will have spent money on....and I've spent a lot of money on ESO just to be let down these last couple years.

You understand ZoS has nothing to do with Starfield right.

Bethesda and ZOS aren't doing business under the same roof?

No, they are separate subsidiaries, both under ZeniMax, which is owned by Microsoft.

Luede

React wrote: »

To now hear that the project may not be complete until the end of 2023 is a massive setback in comparison to what we were initially led to believe.

you're right that it won't satisfy people, it wasn't written that it will end in 2023 at all, it was written that they will start the process of smaller patches in 2023, which will then probably drag on over the coming years.

I also expect that it will have no effect at all

Saucy_Jack

Something to keep in mind is that the original code is probably something akin to a Gordian knot, rather than distinct chunks of instructions that can be swapped out with updated instructions. Heck, even when they WEREN'T doing a massive coding architecture upgrade, changing one little thing here and there for regular weekly patches sometimes introduced significant bugs that weren't intended.

I don't say the above to seem like I'm bashing ZOS. I'm saying it so that people understand that a code rewrite of this kind of magnitude is a tedious, complicated, and time-consuming process. Given all the moving parts, I'm honestly pleasantly surprised it'll only take through 2023 to roll it out.

SPR_of_HA_community

I like such videos, they talk realistick about some real problems.

It is not like " It is all OK, greate communityand etc".

Just truth about some problems. Not all the problems by the way, some are just ignored, as example HA problems.

But at least some thing, that is really problem for all players and with out pull the blanket over in balance for yourself.

Just honest talk about problems that really exist.

TechMaybeHic

It's disappointing that we will just start to see things happening in 2023 l, a year after they said they started, but I'm honestly surprised we see it at all. The game is years in and probably has made enough to call it a business success and just let it finish running it's course; so just truly attacking the issue at this point is very respectable even if disappointing. I'm actually more sceptical than anything but if we see it and it's tangible, that far exceeds my expectations by itself

SaffronCitrusflower

blktauna wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

brylars wrote: »

They are needing to do this and develop their new game, Starfield. Which one do you think is going to be the priority now? The tech industry is having labor issues and MMOs are struggling to keep players because they are all doing the same thing, the same mistakes.

I figured we are at the "take it or leave it stage" of this relationship. Personally, I am going to "take it." I have too much money, time, and friendships invested in the game to leave it now. I will probably stay till they flip the switch.

I will not even consider buying another ZOS product unless they fix ESO, as they have said "they are working on it" for quite some time now. It doesn't matter how good any of their new products might be. If they don't fix ESO it will be the last ZOS product I will have spent money on....and I've spent a lot of money on ESO just to be let down these last couple years.

You understand ZoS has nothing to do with Starfield right.

Bethesda and ZOS aren't doing business under the same roof?

Bethesda is in Rockville MD and Zenimax in Hunt Valley, MD. Different entities but under the same parent company.

Why does "Bethesda" in big bold letters show up first thing when booting up ESO? Isn't ZOS a subsidiary of Bethesda?

Jaraal

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

blktauna wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

brylars wrote: »

They are needing to do this and develop their new game, Starfield. Which one do you think is going to be the priority now? The tech industry is having labor issues and MMOs are struggling to keep players because they are all doing the same thing, the same mistakes.

I figured we are at the "take it or leave it stage" of this relationship. Personally, I am going to "take it." I have too much money, time, and friendships invested in the game to leave it now. I will probably stay till they flip the switch.

I will not even consider buying another ZOS product unless they fix ESO, as they have said "they are working on it" for quite some time now. It doesn't matter how good any of their new products might be. If they don't fix ESO it will be the last ZOS product I will have spent money on....and I've spent a lot of money on ESO just to be let down these last couple years.

You understand ZoS has nothing to do with Starfield right.

Bethesda and ZOS aren't doing business under the same roof?

Bethesda is in Rockville MD and Zenimax in Hunt Valley, MD. Different entities but under the same parent company.

Why does "Bethesda" in big bold letters show up first thing when booting up ESO? Isn't ZOS a subsidiary of Bethesda?

The Elder Scrolls universe is originally a Bethesda creation, and credit is given where due.

Zenimax Online Studios and Bethesda Softworks LLC are both subsidiaries of ZeniMax Media Incorporated.

edward_frigidhands

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

One of our main priorities right now is upgrading the remaining server hardware which is still ongoing and on track - we'll have an update on the timeline before the end of the year. We have also been working on the re-architecture we originally mentioned earlier this year. It's worth noting this isn't a single item that will go into an individual update, but contains many smaller pieces that will be released over multiple updates starting next year.

Will it be possible for us to be updated on a more regular basis regarding the progress on the server code update?

K9002

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

Why does "Bethesda" in big bold letters show up first thing when booting up ESO? Isn't ZOS a subsidiary of Bethesda?

There is Bethesda Softworks, the one with a square, and Bethesda Game Studios with a cogwheel. BethSoft is the publishing company that has multiple development studios under its umbrella, including BGS, id Software, Arkane and Zenimax Online. So Starfield and ESO don't share the programmers and artists who work on the games proper but they do share the marketing team, sales managers, some of the community and PR staff, legal counselors and accountants.

As far as publicly disclosed information goes, BGS was only known to borrow developers from id Software. They were picked for their experience with shooter type of games and contributed greatly to the gunplay in Fallout 4. Ever since ESO went into development, the BGS people repeatedly said that ESO and Zeni Online were always separate projects and the only interactions between the two studios involved the loremasters. Even BGS Austin that works on Fallout 76 has an entirely separate team. The game director is Chris Mayer of Star Wars Galaxies fame and various credited server/database programmers had previously worked on SWTOR and Everquest, but not on ESO.

DrSlaughtr

There is no update because it's either on hold, dead, or so drastically behind their Q4 promise that they can't be honest without causing massive player loss.

DemonicGoat

At what point in the next few months with the current number of players do you think theyll do the $ math and decide paying for upgraded servers for a dying game near its EOL isnt worth it?

DrSlaughtr

DemonicGoat wrote: »

At what point in the next few months with the current number of players do you think theyll do the $ math and decide paying for upgraded servers for a dying game near its EOL isnt worth it?

If it IS near EOL it's their own fault. They have continually placed short term profits ahead of long term success. Server upgrade should have been completed before COVID. Instead they put it off and put it off and now EU and console are still such running on old hardware.

They should have rewritten the code in 2019. Keep in mind development for this game began while Oblivion what being made. Instead they kicked the can down the road.

Meanwhile they have forced you to gamble for things you used to be able to earn by actually playing the game while still requiring you to sub for basic things like craft bag.

Here's what you need to do, Devs.

Make the ESO+ sub better. Get more revenue the right way. Add transmutes. Motifs or even telvar. There are dozens of perks you could add that wouldn't unbalance the economy.

Stop this insane development schedule you began with Elsweyr. One chapter and one dlc a year. Every update should focus solely on game improvement with some content minor editions like a new set or house. Stop blaming the minority of players that will power through new content in 2 weeks for this crazy release scheme.

Spend more time between updates. Every time PTS opens we get what basically will be the live release. Sure, you'll make minor adjustments, but time in and time out you'll completely ignore every warning on the board because the truth is the devs have already made their decisions and very little input is considered once we see the pts patch. You people continually put out broken live updates because the only thing that seems to matter to the decision makers is release.

Finish the code rewrite.

Get the hardware upgraded.

Stop treating new items like a claw machine game. If you really want to charge for a mount, do so but crown gems got to go. It's absolutely toxic and irresponsible to lure people into gambling. It doesn't matter if it's cosmetic. You know VERY WELL what you're doing with loot crates. You make people want the items and then pretend like you had no role in it. It's garbage.

Also charging a Benji for a fake house in a video game is Bernie Madoff level evil but again, you know exactly what you're doing with these releases. You know you've hooked these players and they will spend the last cent in their bank accounts to get it.

Stop knowingly introducing horrible pvp tangents and then waiting a year+ to acknowledge what a vast majority of players will tell you is the issue.

You should stop treating console players as unwanted step children and give us the same priority level attention as PC.

Either listen to players or nuke the forums.