Gameplay fix: make Agent Discard actions optional

rbfrgsp

ToT has a fairly well established gameplay norm that all actions are optional .

If I activate a Toss action, I am allowed to toss zero cards if I choose.

If I activate a Destroy action, I am entitled to destroy zero cards.

Same with tithes / additional patron actions; claim a tavern card action, etc etc.

Please make this also the case for Discard Enemy Agent actions.

There is a legitimate tactical reason for this.

Say I have played Shadows Slumber.

I played that card because I needed the 3 coin secondary action on that card. This three coin would enable me to activate the Psijic patron and win the game as my final patron.

However, the card's initial action is currently forcing me to discard my opponent's only agent. I play my card, and cannot currently progress without selecting an agent to knock out. Once removed, I cannot activate the Psijic patron, and I cannot win the game.

Based on all the other existing mechanics in ToT, this does not seem an intentional design choice. Please say if it is, but it seems that there should be a floating "(R) Confirm" context menu that would enable us to forego the agent discard while still collecting the coin from cards of this type.

Personofsecrets

You point out two non-optional effects in the post. Not only the Rajinn card, but also the Psijic.

It would be interesting to be able to play agent kill cards without killing agents. Likewise, we should be able to activate patrons that have no targets for their effects so long as we pay the cost.

SilverBride

Personofsecrets wrote: »

You point out two non-optional effects in the post. Not only the Rajinn card, but also the Psijic.

It would be interesting to be able to play agent kill cards without killing agents. Likewise, we should be able to activate patrons that have no targets for their effects so long as we pay the cost.

But part of the cost for those is removing an agent.

Personofsecrets

SilverBride wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

You point out two non-optional effects in the post. Not only the Rajinn card, but also the Psijic.

It would be interesting to be able to play agent kill cards without killing agents. Likewise, we should be able to activate patrons that have no targets for their effects so long as we pay the cost.

But part of the cost for those is removing an agent.

The condition for using the effect is that the opponent has an agent as an active agent.

The cost is paying 4 coin.

The effect is the knockout and Patron flip.

Regardless what is what, the patrons shouldn't be blocked from being flipped.

rbfrgsp

The Psijic patron is slightly different. The agent target should exist. And you should have to pay the four gold. But yeah, maybe you can also choose not to knock out the agent after activating that patron too.

SilverBride

Personofsecrets wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

You point out two non-optional effects in the post. Not only the Rajinn card, but also the Psijic.

It would be interesting to be able to play agent kill cards without killing agents. Likewise, we should be able to activate patrons that have no targets for their effects so long as we pay the cost.

But part of the cost for those is removing an agent.

The condition for using the effect is that the opponent has an agent as an active agent.

And if they don't then the condition hasn't been met.

Heartrage

Personofsecrets wrote: »

You point out two non-optional effects in the post. Not only the Rajinn card, but also the Psijic.

It would be interesting to be able to play agent kill cards without killing agents. Likewise, we should be able to activate patrons that have no targets for their effects so long as we pay the cost.

Idk about the patrons, I kind of like that some patrons can’t be flipped all the time. It changes the dynamic around patron win and makes the game feel different as you have to consider buying/using agent cards.

Personofsecrets

rbfrgsp wrote: »

The Psijic patron is slightly different. The agent target should exist. And you should have to pay the four gold. But yeah, maybe you can also choose not to knock out the agent after activating that patron too.

Why should the target have to exist? Requiring a target cut's off potential routes for victory for players and that is often bad.

PrinceShroob

I do agree that cards that can knock out agents should probably be optional. However, I'd leave Celarus' patron ability as is. There's strategic value in choosing Celarus knowing that your opponent can't achieve a patron victory unless you play an agent.

rbfrgsp

Personofsecrets wrote: »

rbfrgsp wrote: »

The Psijic patron is slightly different. The agent target should exist. And you should have to pay the four gold. But yeah, maybe you can also choose not to knock out the agent after activating that patron too.

Why should the target have to exist? Requiring a target cut's off potential routes for victory for players and that is often bad.

Because every patron has a set of requirements and that's the requirement for Psijic.

I don't think your posts are intended to troll, but they're a little trollish as you're trying to change the focus of the thread to something you want to talk about. Could I ask you to make your own thread if you want to discuss the patron requirements? Thanks.