Bring back defile!

Danse_Mayhem

For anyone not aware, both major and minor defile used to be very strong, reducing healing received by 30% and 15% respectively, with the option to boost this with a CP… And now they are down to 16% and 8%, with no CP to boost.

There are counters to most things in cyrodil and I think things are starting to gradually become more balanced with the occult overload nerf and some other things, but healing is out.of.control.

The solution? Bring back defile CP, or buff Major / minor in some way.

I have a guy in our group running soldier of anguish (which is great btw) on a WW which has major / minor defile as part of the infectious claws, but even with dropping those on a player, generally someone will effortlessly spam dragon blood through it and heal to full despite having every available healing debuff in the game on them.

Healing is cracked - all classes can do it. Any fight atm against a good player or decent group is just a stalemate until a low lvl level wanders in and causes a proc death for others. Even negate doesn’t really do much anymore because everyone runs vigor.
Maybe add a heal absorption to a negate morph?

I think there’s a few things that can be done here to bring back this mechanic because with this tanky meta it is certainly needed

Please let me know thoughts : )

Didgerion

And how do you plan to balance the builds that can purge?

I think that the tank meta should be fixed differently.
Instead of fixing the healing they simply can fix damage reduction.
And being more precise the game should not have builds that are both tanks and canons at the same time.

That's how it was designed in the first place but with the introduction of various sets, skills and jewelry it went out of control over the years. Nowadays the light and medium armor builds can easily reach the resistance cap and have both major and minor protection plus the undeath passive which goes totally against the original game's design.

DrSlaughtr

This can all be fixed with battle spirit.

Decreased healing received by 8%.
This is obvious. Healing has been overpowered ever since they boosted it earlier this year.

Decreased damage taken by 3% to 5%.
At first glance this night seem counterproductive in a tank meta but the reason why people are able to build with high survivability is because damage is too high, along with relying on sets like balorgs to carry their damage and pen.

Also when damage is too high it encourages the average player who forgets that they have infinite lives to turtle up, leading to stalemates.

Players need to be forced to build damage beyond proc sets if they want to do massive damage and build to heal if they want to be big time healers.

Oh and here's the required "end hot stacking" comment because you can't say it enough.

cuddles_with_wroble

i agree with this post. make them stronger.

healing is an honest problem in pvp right now, even with the insane nerf to HoTs pvp healing is still way to high. combined with the fact that people are building more and more hp to compensate for the meta its getting harder and harder to kill people who have real builds put together.

for example, right now dks and nightblade can heal themselves for 60-70% of their total hp in just 1 use of their heal when low health. in my opinion this is insane. even on my nightblade i can spam heal on my back bar out of pretty much any situation even with 3 or 4 people hitting me while in 7 medium armor which i find really dumb.

someone else said battle spirit and i think that could be a good idea as well.

all in all i just think that healing should be looked it

Necrotech_Master

ninjagank wrote: »

This can all be fixed with battle spirit.

Decreased healing received by 8%.
This is obvious. Healing has been overpowered ever since they boosted it earlier this year.

Decreased damage taken by 3% to 5%.
At first glance this night seem counterproductive in a tank meta but the reason why people are able to build with high survivability is because damage is too high, along with relying on sets like balorgs to carry their damage and pen.

Also when damage is too high it encourages the average player who forgets that they have infinite lives to turtle up, leading to stalemates.

Players need to be forced to build damage beyond proc sets if they want to do massive damage and build to heal if they want to be big time healers.

Oh and here's the required "end hot stacking" comment because you can't say it enough.

battle spirit already reduces all outgoing dmg by 50% and reduces all healing done by 50-55% and it also reduces your own hp recovery by 50-55% (i dont remember all of the exact values since the healing and health recovery ones have changed between 50 and 60% over the past few years)

if they also added reduced healing received as well (to the same value) then you would only be getting like 25% of the healing from any source (yourself included), which would probably end up unintentionally hurting solos/small groups more than a ball group

i dont think should be adding dmg reduction to battle spirit as that would just further the tank meta, if anything the overall outgoing dmg reduction of 50% could possibly be reduced but then we would go from the tank meta back to the gank meta

Urzigurumash

What happens if Battlespirit and Defile reduce Mag and Stam Regen as they do HP Regen?

edit: besides the obvious implications of unbalancing non-Regen Resource Restoration like Potions, Battle Roar, Warlock, Trappings, etc., since Health equivalents are hit by BS / Defile

Thecompton73

Danse_Mayhem wrote: »

For anyone not aware, both major and minor defile used to be very strong, reducing healing received by 30% and 15% respectively, with the option to boost this with a CP… And now they are down to 16% and 8%, with no CP to boost.

There are counters to most things in cyrodil and I think things are starting to gradually become more balanced with the occult overload nerf and some other things, but healing is out.of.control.

The solution? Bring back defile CP, or buff Major / minor in some way.

I have a guy in our group running soldier of anguish (which is great btw) on a WW which has major / minor defile as part of the infectious claws, but even with dropping those on a player, generally someone will effortlessly spam dragon blood through it and heal to full despite having every available healing debuff in the game on them.

Healing is cracked - all classes can do it. Any fight atm against a good player or decent group is just a stalemate until a low lvl level wanders in and causes a proc death for others. Even negate doesn’t really do much anymore because everyone runs vigor.
Maybe add a heal absorption to a negate morph?

I think there’s a few things that can be done here to bring back this mechanic because with this tanky meta it is certainly needed

Please let me know thoughts : )

Alternatively they could buff the healing absorb effects already in the game up to amounts that actually make a difference. Absorbing 5k healing every few seconds from a ball group putting out 40K HPS doesn't make a dent. Even doing that much is almost impossible as the set has a delayed AOE for application plus 6sec cooldown on the effect and the skill a long channel time and requires a successful stun on each individual enemy to proc the effect on them so anyone staying in motion is nearly immune to both.

xDeusEJRx

No to defile.
We have had this debate before. Buffing defile isn't a good thing because it'll just make defile too OP. Especially in large scale fighting where you have multiple people defiling you at once. If I have 3 people running defiles who are all keeping my heals gutted, I have very low chance of survival. You just end up in a scenario where everyone is running defiling and defiling people to win every fight. And groups with more defiles/higher defile uptime will win in most scenarios.

Which is the inverse of how it is now with everyone healing. The solution should be to adjust healing itself.

Unified_Gaming

The issue I see is healing scales with damage. More damage means more heals. This paired with undeath and major resolve means most builds without trying can get 20-25k armour + bonus when low AND really large burst heals due to hybridisation.

The issue wont be fixed by changing heal strength or healing received but instead I feel it can only be fixed by changing how it scales. Instead of scaling with weapon/spell damage make it scale like this:

Heal does X amount flat regardless of stats - set this value for pve so it doesnt impact new players on overland/dungeon content. Then the only way to amplify this is via healing done % which would raise the heal strength and is already on many healer sets like sanctuary. Healing received % to remain the same allowing tanks to spec to take more healing but in doing so will sacrifice damage.

To fix the scaling and not impact trials I'd suggest they adjust it so that you need X healing done % set bonuses to reach current heal values on a typical healer/damage dealer - say 6 bonuses (that's using two lots of 2 piece, 3 piece and 4 piece bonuses as many 5 piece bonuses don't have healing done %).

This would result in those who stack damage seeing a large drop in healing power but dedicated healers remaining viable, if not more valuable.

The other fix I'd suggest is they make heal over time effects (ground and sticky) refresh with the greatest total healing left to remain i.e. player 1 (dedicated healer) casts rapid regen. Player 2 casts rapid regen straight after. Player 1s rapid regen remains as player 2s rapid regen remaining total was less than player 1s.


What do you guys think?

boi_anachronism_

You can not do something that's going to require dps to sacrifice major amounts of damage for decent self healing in trials. VCR portals being the best example of this because it is both a heal sustain and dps check. With out really good self heals you just die. This is something that has to be accomplished with battlespirit or it will have a major negative effect on trials. Self healing In trials, arenas, and pve is not an issue, it's in a pretty good spot right now. This has to be addressed for pvp only. It is for pvp overhealing and especially heal stacking is a huge problem. People have proposed for a long time that to minimize issues with ball groups that healing abilities should not be able to stack more then once in pvp. In pve you need to be able to do that for your group not to wipe in many cases. In arenas like maelstrom and especially vatashran you depend of self healing.

YandereGirlfriend

Thecompton73 wrote: »

Danse_Mayhem wrote: »

For anyone not aware, both major and minor defile used to be very strong, reducing healing received by 30% and 15% respectively, with the option to boost this with a CP… And now they are down to 16% and 8%, with no CP to boost.

There are counters to most things in cyrodil and I think things are starting to gradually become more balanced with the occult overload nerf and some other things, but healing is out.of.control.

The solution? Bring back defile CP, or buff Major / minor in some way.

I have a guy in our group running soldier of anguish (which is great btw) on a WW which has major / minor defile as part of the infectious claws, but even with dropping those on a player, generally someone will effortlessly spam dragon blood through it and heal to full despite having every available healing debuff in the game on them.

Healing is cracked - all classes can do it. Any fight atm against a good player or decent group is just a stalemate until a low lvl level wanders in and causes a proc death for others. Even negate doesn’t really do much anymore because everyone runs vigor.
Maybe add a heal absorption to a negate morph?

I think there’s a few things that can be done here to bring back this mechanic because with this tanky meta it is certainly needed

Please let me know thoughts : )

Alternatively they could buff the healing absorb effects already in the game up to amounts that actually make a difference. Absorbing 5k healing every few seconds from a ball group putting out 40K HPS doesn't make a dent. Even doing that much is almost impossible as the set has a delayed AOE for application plus 6sec cooldown on the effect and the skill a long channel time and requires a successful stun on each individual enemy to proc the effect on them so anyone staying in motion is nearly immune to both.

I've been trying to bang on this drum for years. There are barely any heal absorption skills/sets in the game and the ones that are are very under-tuned for what they do. Adjusting healing this way also has the positive effect of not touching PvE at all.

OBJnoob

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

No to defile.
We have had this debate before. Buffing defile isn't a good thing because it'll just make defile too OP. Especially in large scale fighting where you have multiple people defiling you at once. If I have 3 people running defiles who are all keeping my heals gutted, I have very low chance of survival. You just end up in a scenario where everyone is running defiling and defiling people to win every fight. And groups with more defiles/higher defile uptime will win in most scenarios.

Which is the inverse of how it is now with everyone healing. The solution should be to adjust healing itself.

Not that anyone wants YOU specifically to suffer but I have to say this is exactly what should happen. If you're in a large-scale battle and 3+ members of the other team are focusing you hard and keeping you defiled then your chances of survival should be very low.

Or if you're trying to X but 3+ people are defiling you then your chances of survival should be low.

Sorry if you're used to the meta and enjoy your ability to survive large amounts of incoming damage. But that's just saying you disagree. Its not offering an argument against it, its just restating the problem.

Defile was a fun mechanic and definitely needs to be buffed, and/or more sources of it created, and/or some of the other suggestions. I'm not picky about the solution but the problem is clear.

TechMaybeHic

I'm not a fan of flat heal absorb things nor forcing a role for healing over being able to self heal.

I think defile percentage is fine, but the uptime is generally too short, and lack of sources or decent abilities are more a problem.

One source that does not work well isAOE defile on dark flare. Ability is lack luster as the duration of 4 seconds while a templar must activate it for nearly 1, and the first time seems longer, the targets probably are ok with health when it lands and it's gone by the time they really need a heal

The one I can think of that really works is NB ultimate as it hits hard then you then follow with a bow proc which hits REALLY hard, then go into execute and their heals have been shut down so targets are forced to dodge or block or react accordingly because they can't just outheal it.

OnGodiDoDis

Didgerion wrote: »

And how do you plan to balance the builds that can purge?

I think that the tank meta should be fixed differently.
Instead of fixing the healing they simply can fix damage reduction.
And being more precise the game should not have builds that are both tanks and canons at the same time.

That's how it was designed in the first place but with the introduction of various sets, skills and jewelry it went out of control over the years. Nowadays the light and medium armor builds can easily reach the resistance cap and have both major and minor protection plus the undeath passive which goes totally against the original game's design.

Purges are extremely expensive, costing well over 4k magicka. If you want to purge every time you get defiled, go ahead. The high cost is the balance.

OnGodiDoDis

Danse_Mayhem wrote: »

For anyone not aware, both major and minor defile used to be very strong, reducing healing received by 30% and 15% respectively, with the option to boost this with a CP… And now they are down to 16% and 8%, with no CP to boost.

There are counters to most things in cyrodil and I think things are starting to gradually become more balanced with the occult overload nerf and some other things, but healing is out.of.control.

The solution? Bring back defile CP, or buff Major / minor in some way.

I have a guy in our group running soldier of anguish (which is great btw) on a WW which has major / minor defile as part of the infectious claws, but even with dropping those on a player, generally someone will effortlessly spam dragon blood through it and heal to full despite having every available healing debuff in the game on them.

Healing is cracked - all classes can do it. Any fight atm against a good player or decent group is just a stalemate until a low lvl level wanders in and causes a proc death for others. Even negate doesn’t really do much anymore because everyone runs vigor.
Maybe add a heal absorption to a negate morph?

I think there’s a few things that can be done here to bring back this mechanic because with this tanky meta it is certainly needed

Please let me know thoughts : )

I can attest to this, I run Major and Minor Cowardice on my NB healer. I debuff DKs while they're getting hit by 5+ people, and their health shoots right back to 100%. Maybe it's the DK heal that needs to be reworked to scale differently.

Sergykid

suggested this on forum before, Defile in order to not be op if % is raised, could be reworked to have an increasing effect just like Relic or Chaos Orb have on healing taken. Or just be raised by small % but then won't be equal to other buffs debuffs.

"disease damage applies Diseased debuff to target for x seconds. While Diseased debuff persists, target will have Defiled debuff which reduces healing received and absorb shield strength, and increases by 1% per second.
Defiled has no duration and can't be removed by anything, it's gone only if Diseased is gone."
my suggestion is basically keeping up Diseased on a target u reduce its survival so much it eventually falls or retreats significantly.

xDeusEJRx

OBJnoob wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

No to defile.
We have had this debate before. Buffing defile isn't a good thing because it'll just make defile too OP. Especially in large scale fighting where you have multiple people defiling you at once. If I have 3 people running defiles who are all keeping my heals gutted, I have very low chance of survival. You just end up in a scenario where everyone is running defiling and defiling people to win every fight. And groups with more defiles/higher defile uptime will win in most scenarios.

Which is the inverse of how it is now with everyone healing. The solution should be to adjust healing itself.

Not that anyone wants YOU specifically to suffer but I have to say this is exactly what should happen. If you're in a large-scale battle and 3+ members of the other team are focusing you hard and keeping you defiled then your chances of survival should be very low.

Or if you're trying to X but 3+ people are defiling you then your chances of survival should be low.

Sorry if you're used to the meta and enjoy your ability to survive large amounts of incoming damage. But that's just saying you disagree. Its not offering an argument against it, its just restating the problem.

Defile was a fun mechanic and definitely needs to be buffed, and/or more sources of it created, and/or some of the other suggestions. I'm not picky about the solution but the problem is clear.

There's more nuance to PVP than just that. Just because people are trying to use high uptime on OP things shouldn't be guaranteed for you to lose.
If that were the case should a 30 man zerg always run over a zerg of 20 people? Because they have higher amounts of people and therefore more defiling is happening so they have higher uptime, you believe they should win every encounter yes? No, there's more nuance to fights than that. If you buff defile back it will just make it an OP mechanic that everyone will use to try to turn the tide of a fight.

Right now both defile is a very common buff and it's possible to reduce healing up to 24%(both major and minor). It's possible to defile up to a quarter of their healing but healing is still a problem. Seems more like healing is the problem not counters.

We don't need to enable people defiling higher than that. 30% or 40% healing reduction capabilities is FAR too overpowered for a debuff. Especially considering healing quite literally JUST got nerfed. And it will basically guarantee a larger number wins most engagements because healing will become useless more often due to higher uptime of overpowered debuffs.


It's a very bad suggestion, instead of trying to introduce op things how about we balance healing more?

OBJnoob

I think you're overreacting, but its good to have both sides of a debate represented so I'm glad you're saying what you're saying.

The former defile values were basically halved AND they removed the cp star. Everybody complains that healing is a problem. It wouldn't suddenly become OP just to partially revert it. It would become a more potent counterplay to healing... Which is what people are asking for.

It isn't as though you, since I'm using you in this hypothetical, wouldn't have access to it as well. It'd just be another useful part of peoples kits... Some would find barspace for it and some would not.

1 talented guy Xing 3 less talented people and winning = 1 talented guy with defile Xing 3 less talented people with defile and winning.

The game is the game. You can either beat 3 people or not. You'll still have the same opportunities to make better builds, use a better combination of skills, have greater anticipation and counter plays, and have better timing.

If making defile stronger is what changes your outcome then I'm sorry but your build was dependant on OP self healing. And basically every Xer who stalemates against people with equal skill does.

baselesschart

I just want defile back on incap. The removal of defile on incap was one of the dumbest changes ZOS has done to nightblade's kit

DrSlaughtr

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ninjagank wrote: »

This can all be fixed with battle spirit.

Decreased healing received by 8%.
This is obvious. Healing has been overpowered ever since they boosted it earlier this year.

Decreased damage taken by 3% to 5%.
At first glance this night seem counterproductive in a tank meta but the reason why people are able to build with high survivability is because damage is too high, along with relying on sets like balorgs to carry their damage and pen.

Also when damage is too high it encourages the average player who forgets that they have infinite lives to turtle up, leading to stalemates.

Players need to be forced to build damage beyond proc sets if they want to do massive damage and build to heal if they want to be big time healers.

Oh and here's the required "end hot stacking" comment because you can't say it enough.

battle spirit already reduces all outgoing dmg by 50% and reduces all healing done by 50-55% and it also reduces your own hp recovery by 50-55% (i dont remember all of the exact values since the healing and health recovery ones have changed between 50 and 60% over the past few years)

if they also added reduced healing received as well (to the same value) then you would only be getting like 25% of the healing from any source (yourself included), which would probably end up unintentionally hurting solos/small groups more than a ball group

i dont think should be adding dmg reduction to battle spirit as that would just further the tank meta, if anything the overall outgoing dmg reduction of 50% could possibly be reduced but then we would go from the tank meta back to the gank meta

Allow me to explain, because while I agree that at face value it would seem redundant to do less damage in a tank meta, it's because of what has been added to the game that we are in one.

Currently battle spirit does this:

Damage Taken and Shield Strength are decreased by 50%
Healing Received is decreased by 55%
Health Recovery is decreased by 50%
Ability range of 28 meters or more is increased by 8

Prior to Waking the Flame, Battle Spirit did this:

Damage Taken and Shield Strength are decreased by 44%
Healing Received is decreased by 50%

This change was made because at the time, TTK was low (too low according to some, I disagreed). So yes, in this context, doing so did create the bedrock of a tank meta, but the actual tank meta didn't start until November through January, after The Deadlands was released. DKs were buffed and ZOS started releasing item that can drastically increase damage as well as survability.

Since then, we have received numerous sets and items that are causing issues with TTK balance. A few are: Rallying Cry, Markyn, Mara's, and Oakensoul. Now on PC you also have Elemental Susceptibility that gives you a HUGE DPS increase for free.

So while yes, they did give everyone 6% damage mitigation, they have since released several avenues of easy damage increases that do not negatively effect survivability. You can any combo of Rallying Cry, Markyn and Balorgs and get all the damage an penetration you need for an ultimate burst, which is how most people are running right now. Survive. Heal. Kite. Build ultimate. Run around a corner. Drop everything. If you killed the enemies, great. If not, repeat.

So while yes, they gave everyone 6% damage mitigation via Battle Spirit, damage has swung high because of these additions they have made to the game.

Likewise, even though healing was nerfed in Waking the Flame by 5%, it has actually been buffed by those same additions that allow someone to have 7k+ damage with 38k health and 35k armor.

So given that they aren't going to nerf all these sets and the various mitigation additions they have made to DKs and others, I don't see any other way to force players to build more into damage than lower damage taken.

Maybe I'm wrong. This is how I see it. If you give me a bunch of extra damage, I don't need to run as much damage, so I invest in health or armor or both.

Necrotech_Master

OnGodiDoDis wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

And how do you plan to balance the builds that can purge?

I think that the tank meta should be fixed differently.
Instead of fixing the healing they simply can fix damage reduction.
And being more precise the game should not have builds that are both tanks and canons at the same time.

That's how it was designed in the first place but with the introduction of various sets, skills and jewelry it went out of control over the years. Nowadays the light and medium armor builds can easily reach the resistance cap and have both major and minor protection plus the undeath passive which goes totally against the original game's design.

Purges are extremely expensive, costing well over 4k magicka. If you want to purge every time you get defiled, go ahead. The high cost is the balance.

not every class has to use the alliance war purge, especially wardens who have 100% free purge

YandereGirlfriend

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

OnGodiDoDis wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

And how do you plan to balance the builds that can purge?

I think that the tank meta should be fixed differently.
Instead of fixing the healing they simply can fix damage reduction.
And being more precise the game should not have builds that are both tanks and canons at the same time.

That's how it was designed in the first place but with the introduction of various sets, skills and jewelry it went out of control over the years. Nowadays the light and medium armor builds can easily reach the resistance cap and have both major and minor protection plus the undeath passive which goes totally against the original game's design.

Purges are extremely expensive, costing well over 4k magicka. If you want to purge every time you get defiled, go ahead. The high cost is the balance.

not every class has to use the alliance war purge, especially wardens who have 100% free purge

Are you talking about the Netch? Yes, it's free but it only clears one effect at a time, so if you have other negative effects active on you (which you will), then you're going to have to spam that thing a bunch of times before you actually clear the Defile. In the meantime, you're not doing anything else of value with your abilities, just chucking GCDs into the furnace while the enemy is not being pressured and is presumably parsing on you.

Necrotech_Master

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

OnGodiDoDis wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

And how do you plan to balance the builds that can purge?

I think that the tank meta should be fixed differently.
Instead of fixing the healing they simply can fix damage reduction.
And being more precise the game should not have builds that are both tanks and canons at the same time.

That's how it was designed in the first place but with the introduction of various sets, skills and jewelry it went out of control over the years. Nowadays the light and medium armor builds can easily reach the resistance cap and have both major and minor protection plus the undeath passive which goes totally against the original game's design.

Purges are extremely expensive, costing well over 4k magicka. If you want to purge every time you get defiled, go ahead. The high cost is the balance.

not every class has to use the alliance war purge, especially wardens who have 100% free purge

Are you talking about the Netch? Yes, it's free but it only clears one effect at a time, so if you have other negative effects active on you (which you will), then you're going to have to spam that thing a bunch of times before you actually clear the Defile. In the meantime, you're not doing anything else of value with your abilities, just chucking GCDs into the furnace while the enemy is not being pressured and is presumably parsing on you.

i was mainly referencing that some classes have cheaper purge options than the alliance one

templars cleansing ritual costs like half of what alliance purge costs and can do up to 5 effects, necromancers purge costs health and can do up to like 4 effects

wardens is free, but can only do 1 effect (downside of being free), but against say like bow sniper they can easily hit you with like 4+ negative effects very quickly and in that case purging is pretty futile if they can keep reapplying it

Danse_Mayhem

I get that bringing defile back would hurt the ‘X’ers’ out there but honestly, that gameplay has gotten increasingly less possible over the years, with the proc sets and tank meta etc… It’s harder than ever to fight solo.
The end game of pvp now appears to be ball group play, and as we have experienced with basically every set that’s come out to counter ball groups - It just benefits them all, because you cannot nerf teamwork.

Defile would not necessarily work in the favour of a ball group so well as the other stuff has.

I’d personally like to see more sets like enervating aura, that have a pretty nasty debuff attached if hitting a larger group but are basically useless against a solo player. That set in particular doesn’t perform well but the idea is there… A set that debuffed healing and scaled with how many people it hit would be very good

Holycannoli

Isn't the real problem stacking HoTs? That should be addressed before anything else.

OBJnoob

No the problem isn't just ballgroups stacking hots the problem is also high level duelers being unable to kill each other.

The idea of bringing back the strength of defile fixes the 1v1 problem.

There's no point trying to fix the ballgroup problem because honestly it isn't a problem that can be fixed, as others have said, you can't nerf teamwork. I mean they can just have two (or 5, why not?) Dedicated healers spamming burst heals instead if they wanted to. Limiting HoT stacks would hurt smaller groups way more because their group members need to do more than one thing at a time.

Honestly balance would be easier to find if we all just stopped trying to balance 6 people beating 12(of equal skill.) Won't happen. Ballgroups aren't "a" meta it is "the" meta and it always will be. It makes far more sense from a balance perspective than say, the opposite, which is one bomber coming in and blowing up 12 people.

deleted221205-002626

s they reduce damage and healing they need to reduce battle spirit effects as well. Hopefully they get everything back down to a point where battle spirit is no longer required to even exist other than for range extending maybe.

katorga

Heals scale off only magicka/stamina.

Damage scales off only spell/weapon damage.

That solves the problem.

AndreNoir

Defile shouldn't be touched without huge revision of all healing modifiers
For example the most "balanced" type of armor after recent changes gives +2% of healing done per piece, heavy provides +1% received. Then you look at Combat medic passive with absurd +20%, add here needless CP, mending buffs that can be found everywhere and on top of that every heal can be stacked and defile is not.
At the current state of game balance some tweaks like single target silence on NB's Soul Harvest or something similar to that will do a better job because right now only silence can suppress a pile of healing buffs and HOTs

TechMaybeHic

katorga wrote: »

Heals scale off only magicka/stamina.

Damage scales off only spell/weapon damage.

That solves the problem.

Yet creates others like favoring organized groups even more

TechMaybeHic

I'm not sure defile needs buffed but maybe more sources and longer duration. Still feels like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. A lot of the over the top healing picked up when they went hybrid so people can double dip with Vigor and their class burst heal.

Then it got to be worse when you add sets like Maras that gives a passive HOT and burst heal, to pair with a set like serpent coil which gives both great offense and a big defense with only 1 piece.

Group healing was already an issue from stacking HOTs and they tried to address that by nerfing the group HOTs but at the same time; gave groups with dedicated heals even more of an advantage.

If start with something more precise like make Serpent Coil either only grant the initial defense or offense and get rid of the snare; or make it only grant major courage or berserk, not both. Probably could do the same with Markyn to a lesser extent but it would make running Maras less appealing when you're not getting equivalent of an offense and defense 5th piece on one item.

I'd also remove minor resolve from Vigor. Who's idea was it to take the best HOT in game and add more to it?

And I still think HOT stacking should be like snares and the best HOT just takes precedence