What do you want from a world map addon which seeks to fix issues with the map?

Vylaera

This poll is for people who specifically have issues with the lore accuracy of the map. This topic has been covered extensively here on the forums and elsweyr, but a quick recap may be necessary.

The map of Tamriel in ESO has various inaccuracies which the developers have stated previously are in fact lore inaccurate, such as the placement of Eastmarch and The Rift. Other parts of the map do not align with prior lore, but may have in fact been retcons of the prior lore, such as the placement of Shadowfen and Balfiera. They may have started as mistakes, but the lore added to the game has rendered them canon, retroactively. Other mistakes with the map have no lore justification for being different, such has how High Rock juts out much farther north and west than it otherwise should, and the game world would allow it to be moved to match up with its placement in prior maps. This also goes for the Summerset Archipelago which should be much closer together and slightly farther north.

So, with the small recap covered, which cartographic methodology would you want from people developing an addon which seeks to fix the map? Following ESO's lore, even if it presents a retcon to old lore, or to ignore ESO lore in favor strictly of the lore which was established before it?

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Didn't you and someone else already make this addon?

Vylaera

A map that follows ESO's lore but corrects its inaccuracies

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Didn't you and someone else already make this addon?

We did, yes, but we've cone into this particular disagreement that the poll is trying to assess.

I believe we should follow ESO's lore, the other person does not think we should follow ESO's lore and that the map should reflect lore from the rest of the series, and not for the actual game the addon is being made for.

WiseSky

A map that follows ESO's lore but corrects its inaccuracies

It should follow the lore.

ESO is cannon, it's as simple as that....

If any problems arise within the "lore community"... Insert Dragon Break

Tandor

I don't see the point in having a map in ESO that doesn't follow ESO lore, but isn't the real point about addons that you can both create addons that cover both options? It's not an "either/or" situation.

In any event, I don't have any problems with the present map and although on PC don't use addons anyway, so it's academic to me although I do wonder why both options aren't implemented for those who want them.

Vylaera

A map that follows ESO's lore but corrects its inaccuracies

Tandor wrote: »

I don't see the point in having a map in ESO that doesn't follow ESO lore, but isn't the real point about addons that you can both create addons that cover both options? It's not an "either/or" situation.

In any event, I don't have any problems with the present map and although on PC don't use addons anyway, so it's academic to me although I do wonder why both options aren't implemented for those who want them.

It's very technically difficult to implement a toggle, and it would make the map much harder to develop when neither of us have the time already to manage a single map file.

It's just not a tenable proposition to add that sort of functionality.

And in any case, it comes off as bitter and resentful, and frankly a little elitist to suggest that ESO is less than canon because it changed the locations of a few places like Balfiera, Arenthia, and Stormhold.

TaSheen

A map that follows ESO's lore but corrects its inaccuracies

I would use either (and do use the original one the two of you produced), but truthfully I feel for this game ESO's own lore is more important than the lore of the other games (because they're "future" games in any case, so things could have changed between ESO and it's canon/lore and those later than ESO but earlier released games).

And if that's not straddling the fence, I don't know what is! Sorry!

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Only issue I ever have with the current map is wanting to port straight into a specific dungeon and having no flipping clue what zone its in. Very annoying.

Edit: Beam me up addon solves pretty much all my issues with the map. I am not one to be super annoyed if the map is not technically accurate.

Tandor

Vylaera wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I don't see the point in having a map in ESO that doesn't follow ESO lore, but isn't the real point about addons that you can both create addons that cover both options? It's not an "either/or" situation.

In any event, I don't have any problems with the present map and although on PC don't use addons anyway, so it's academic to me although I do wonder why both options aren't implemented for those who want them.

It's very technically difficult to implement a toggle, and it would make the map much harder to develop when neither of us have the time already to manage a single map file.

It's just not a tenable proposition to add that sort of functionality.

And in any case, it comes off as bitter and resentful, and frankly a little elitist to suggest that ESO is less than canon because it changed the locations of a few places like Balfiera, Arenthia, and Stormhold.

Just to clarify, I wasn't suggesting a toggle, rather the creation of separate addons. If there isn't the time available to do that then that's totally understood.

Psiion

Greetings all,

We have moved this thread to the Add-Ons and UI Mods section of the Forums as it is discussing an add-on, and the thread is better fit there. We appreciate your understanding.

Regards,
The Elder Scrolls Online Team

Prophet_of_Malacath

A map that follows ESO's lore but corrects its inaccuracies

My take on the maps is simple - we don't have any space-age satellites taking pictures, lol.

Maps change over time because they're well-researched but imperfect.

Even IRL, countries bicker over borders & histories, "each side" arguing over who founded what & who is really the outsider.

Moreover, maps change with time. Islands erupt from sea volcanoes. Lakes dry up. Now add a world with gods & it happens faster - Mehrunes Dagon literally ripped parts of Mournhold, and Molag Bal has littered Coldharbour with chunks he took.

As for the 3 locations:

Quibbling over BALFIERA seems silly - everything from TES2 has moved around. In fact, if comparative magic is any indication, the later ages are fallen ages in terms of scholarship. Spells get worst, crafting styles more basic, in ESO a Sorcerer can have around 7 daedra yet by TES5 it's considered "a feat of excellence" to summon 2 at a time. I'd take ESO's omniscient map & consider TES2 "the best a ship-stranded Imperial spy stuck in a cave could put together using local sources".

ARENTHIA also seems fine. Reaper's March isn't entirely in any province - we even see the river down the center where it should split. In old maps, Valenwood always had a gentle ( shape to the east - and indeed, on Arenthia's side of Reaper's March, we see bosmer communities (including growing new trees inside old Imperial ruins). The ESO map is accurate because the forest has not grown out that far yet.

STORMHOLD I know is part of multiple concerns - since there's also Deshaan, Dres territory & the location of Narsis (which in other maps was much further south). One solution is that in the border-mountain between Deshaan & Black Marsh, there might be unexplored territory we've skipped. Alternatively, a later disaster deepens the river (into Stonefalls), Narsis is wrought by a natural/magical disasters, nu-Narsis builds south (to match other maps). Point is we have a thousand years or so for the map to evolve - in a setting where in half-a-decade we've had walking Daedric Princes, dragons, vampire armies, name it.

Good luck to you both. But really, I wouldn't measure the 2E map by 3E or 4E norms.

Vylaera

A map that follows ESO's lore but corrects its inaccuracies

Prophet_of_Malacath wrote: »

My take on the maps is simple - we don't have any space-age satellites taking pictures, lol.

Maps change over time because they're well-researched but imperfect.

Even IRL, countries bicker over borders & histories, "each side" arguing over who founded what & who is really the outsider.

Moreover, maps change with time. Islands erupt from sea volcanoes. Lakes dry up. Now add a world with gods & it happens faster - Mehrunes Dagon literally ripped parts of Mournhold, and Molag Bal has littered Coldharbour with chunks he took.

As for the 3 locations:

Quibbling over BALFIERA seems silly - everything from TES2 has moved around. In fact, if comparative magic is any indication, the later ages are fallen ages in terms of scholarship. Spells get worst, crafting styles more basic, in ESO a Sorcerer can have around 7 daedra yet by TES5 it's considered "a feat of excellence" to summon 2 at a time. I'd take ESO's omniscient map & consider TES2 "the best a ship-stranded Imperial spy stuck in a cave could put together using local sources".

ARENTHIA also seems fine. Reaper's March isn't entirely in any province - we even see the river down the center where it should split. In old maps, Valenwood always had a gentle ( shape to the east - and indeed, on Arenthia's side of Reaper's March, we see bosmer communities (including growing new trees inside old Imperial ruins). The ESO map is accurate because the forest has not grown out that far yet.

STORMHOLD I know is part of multiple concerns - since there's also Deshaan, Dres territory & the location of Narsis (which in other maps was much further south). One solution is that in the border-mountain between Deshaan & Black Marsh, there might be unexplored territory we've skipped. Alternatively, a later disaster deepens the river (into Stonefalls), Narsis is wrought by a natural/magical disasters, nu-Narsis builds south (to match other maps). Point is we have a thousand years or so for the map to evolve - in a setting where in half-a-decade we've had walking Daedric Princes, dragons, vampire armies, name it.

Good luck to you both. But really, I wouldn't measure the 2E map by 3E or 4E norms.

Well, to be fair, it's not a thousand years between ESO and the main series, it's only about 600.

Maps can be wrong, sure, but we also are talking about a universe where khajiit have moon colonies, the reman empire and the ancient Altmer had spaceships. There's absolutely ways to accurately draw a map.

And as far as lore justifications for why things changed, I don't really think they're necessary. It was just retconned to be somewhere else works for me. The old lore is wrong now. Easy enough. Trying to justify incompatible lore because of natural disasters and tectonic plates doesn't really work because those disasters didn't actually occur and the locations of cities are ancient and unmoving. Stormhold is built in an ayleid city. It can't just up and move. If ESO wrote new lore to justify it being in its new location then it's simply a retcon and we have to take old sources with a grain of salt. Same for the rest.

spartaxoxo

I'm a thread lurker and I don't have an opinion but want to see the poll results

I don't particularly care as I can't even use it as a console players, but it seems somewhat useless at best (and very mildly elitist/offensive at worst) to make a map for use by ESO players that act as if the game they are actually playing doesn't matter because the mod maker likes different games more. But, that's just me.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Vylaera wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Didn't you and someone else already make this addon?

We did, yes, but we've cone into this particular disagreement that the poll is trying to assess.

I believe we should follow ESO's lore, the other person does not think we should follow ESO's lore and that the map should reflect lore from the rest of the series, and not for the actual game the addon is being made for.

ESO's lore is the rest of the series lore. If the big inaccuracies were fixed they would follow the singleplayer games lore as well. They aren't that different.

saar

I'm a thread lurker and I don't have an opinion but want to see the poll results

On one hand, the standard map from outside of ESO is aesthetically pleasing. It's the Tamriel that really captured my mind long ago. I have that addon and it's hard to go back from that to the default map that doesn't appear to have anywhere near as much care put into it. On the other, it doesn't make a lot of sense to have a large gap between Shadowfen and Deshaan in ESO for example, knowing that this area will never be filled by future content, due to the retconning of various locations. I'll reserve judgement about ESO's place in the lore overall until TES6 releases, but I'm willing to accept ESO's lore including its cartographic changes as its own thing, thus it makes the most sense to have a map that reflects the in-game world.

Danikat

A map that follows ESO's lore but corrects its inaccuracies

For me the absolute most important function for any in-game map is to show me where I am, where my destination is and how to get between the two. Any map which doesn't do that is totally and completely useless, no matter how many other games or lore books it may reference.

I know there are differences in the way Tamriel is described and portrayed in different games, and debating which of those should be considered more or less accurate or important for the overarching canon could be an interesting discussion. But imposing another game's map, or an amalgamation of all of them, on ESO does nothing but make the map less useful.

If there are ways to tweak the map to fit older interpretations without affecting it's functionality, like changing the outline of the inaccessible bits around the edges then it'd be ok. But if it involves moving the location of wayshrines, towns and other objectives so they no longer match their actual position in the game then it's breaking the map and not something I'd ever consider using.