The Healing Nerfs (PvE Dungeons & Trials)

Soarora

I feel this is an extremely hot take but I don't see anyone arguing for the nerfs so I wanted to get my opinion out here and see if there's any others who agree or if I really am the minority. As I've become a better healer, healing has become less fun. The reality becomes clear that our job is not quite to actively heal but instead lay down HoTs and buff/debuff. The new dungeons' level of difficulty has been eye-opening. Finally, I'm spending time actively healing through numerous heal-checks (while keeping up buffs/debuffs, of course)! I feel needed and seen! It's fun to heal in a whole new way (not panic healing, which is the only time I found healing difficult previously)! This example could be just a design direction and I understand there are content that do require a lot of healing (some of which should probably get a nerf since they were already difficult pre-U35) however mechanics such as vSS Yoln stack mechanic (even on HM) and Lokke tombs (non HM, haven't tomb healed HM) just feel nonexistent with how high healing was (and maybe still is?). vDSR (non HM) Maelstrom also didn't feel very difficult to heal through, and neither does any other mechanic in both trials and dungeons I can think of except for a few. Those few being: vSO poison, vAA final boss, vMGF HM, vKA HM final boss (which I have not healed but have been there for), of course the two new dungeons even on just vet, vSWR HM first and second boss, vCA HM, vCR Baneful, and I've heard vRG HM and vDSR HM (both of which I have not done). Honorable mentions for having interesting mechanics that aren't heal checks are: vHoF purgefest, vAS, and vCR kite. I'm sure I'm missing a few (and if I remember I'll edit it into the list) but that is a very small amount of content (and in some cases these examples are one mechanic out of the entire content) compared to all dungeons and all trials on HM and just vet. Tanks get unique mechanics and dps carry the length of fights on their shoulders so why should the healing aspect of healing be easy?

Edit: I wanted to add for crystal clarity that of course fine tuning (either decreasing healing + decreasing damage from already hard encounters or buffing easy encounters) would be a lot better than a blanket nerf but you know how it is.

charley222

he all know player hate nerfed

the dev just need to have monster with healing debuff also same for pvp probleme fix

IZZEFlameLash

I'm not a healer and I DON'T think healing needed nerfed

What they needed was crosshealing restriction in pvp zone only. Healing is much needed in PvE side if you go beyond anything Normal difficulty.

Instead, we got healing nerf that hurts in some dlc contents due to mechanics.

Soarora

I'm a healer and I think healing needed nerfed

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

What they needed was crosshealing restriction in pvp zone only. Healing is much needed in PvE side if you go beyond anything Normal difficulty.

Instead, we got healing nerf that hurts in some dlc contents due to mechanics.

That’s just not true. vDSA and many dungeons on vet (and even some on HM, such as UG and Scalecaller) can be run with 3 dps and some even say 3 dps is better than 2 dps 1 healer for those content.

Some is right. Comparatively, very, very few mechanics actually hurt. Here’s to hoping more hurt now!

p00tx

I'm a healer and I DON'T think healing needed nerfed

The healing changes have been difficult to adjust for in more advanced content. The vast majority of players have never and likely will never encounter this content or the issues we're dealing with though, so I guess it doesn't really matter and it's an "us" problem, as usual.

Soarora

I'm a healer and I think healing needed nerfed

p00tx wrote: »

The healing changes have been difficult to adjust for in more advanced content. The vast majority of players have never and likely will never encounter this content or the issues we're dealing with though, so I guess it doesn't really matter and it's an "us" problem, as usual.

I just don't want to feel bored and useless in content anymore (aka its nice seeing people's health move instead of instantly going back to full). I shouldn't have to do only specific HMs and trifectas (which are more of adrenaline-inducing panic heal times than just normal healing like vERE, at least for me) to have fun. I will reiterate I do think that the already difficult encounters should be toned down though to match pre-u35 levels of difficulty, no use in making them even more difficult.

Arbit

I'm a healer and I DON'T think healing needed nerfed

Even tho it’s nice to have healers needed, you don’t want it being too difficult for healers either. There should be content for more advanced healing but I wouldn’t touch healing at it’s core. We need it easier for the casual healers, otherwise it may scare some people away when it’s too difficult for them.

TheGreatBlackBear

I'm a healer and I DON'T think healing needed nerfed

Being useful or useless as a healer was never about filling healthbars in end game. It's about buff and debuff uptime. Sounds to me like you want to be a healbot. And unfortunately whether or not you get a "challenge" from it being more difficult to fill healthbars and group worth a damn still requires you to have max uptime on buffs and debuffs.

Soarora

I'm a healer and I think healing needed nerfed

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

Being useful or useless as a healer was never about filling healthbars in end game. It's about buff and debuff uptime. Sounds to me like you want to be a healbot. And unfortunately whether or not you get a "challenge" from it being more difficult to fill healthbars and group worth a damn still requires you to have max uptime on buffs and debuffs.

I don’t want to be a -bot anything. Healing is a multifaceted and dynamic job and I’m very well aware that buff/debuff uptimes are a big part of said job, which I did mention in my post. I’m just wishing healing was also a bigger part. Lining up burst heals when mechanics go off, healing requiring more heals so a dps can’t just heal in dungeons without real healers having to sacrifice more bar space, etc. I want to think about healing instead of just give out HoTs and move on to uptimes or spam combat prayer until the mechanic is over. It’s why I quit healing dungeons for a while and the newest two trials (non hm). In dungeons, I’ve had multiple cases of people being disappointed, otherwise unhappy, or ignoring me being a real healer. In Rockgrove and DSR it just feels sad and boring and I don’t want to be there (as healer, I do love DSR but not as healer)… but maybe I’m just better suited to be a kite healer.
Don’t get me wrong, I know healing is already a very difficult job and I’m not advocating for content to become much more difficult, just more visual feedback for what I’m already doing and more reward for anticipating mechanics, which so far the healing nerfs have accomplished. I just hope U36 takes a look at the extremely hard content and pulls back on the damage a bit.

selig_fay

No opinion/other

I think skills need to be reworked. As warden, I've run into difficulties. Yes, the good ability has been nerfed, but I can add just one more ability to have good effectiveness. So right? Well, the dynamics of the game is increasing. Dps needs to run for mechanics. Tank needs to run for the mechanic. And it turns out that no one will stand in your healing fields. Thus, there are 2 more options for the warden, one of which is to get pulled up to the tank and die.
So this nerf just showed the main problem. There aren't really many healing abilities in the game that are useful.
Well, yes, I still think that healers should be separated from dps because healing and damage (like a tank) are competing stats where you have to sacrifice damage (or defense) for more healing. Now it's broken and there is very little difference between dps and healer. And it generates and will generate many problems.

endgamesmug

selig_fay wrote: »

I think skills need to be reworked. As warden, I've run into difficulties. Yes, the good ability has been nerfed, but I can add just one more ability to have good effectiveness. So right? Well, the dynamics of the game is increasing. Dps needs to run for mechanics. Tank needs to run for the mechanic. And it turns out that no one will stand in your healing fields. Thus, there are 2 more options for the warden, one of which is to get pulled up to the tank and die.
So this nerf just showed the main problem. There aren't really many healing abilities in the game that are useful.
Well, yes, I still think that healers should be separated from dps because healing and damage (like a tank) are competing stats where you have to sacrifice damage (or defense) for more healing. Now it's broken and there is very little difference between dps and healer. And it generates and will generate many problems.

I learnt pretty early on in the piece when i decided to give healing a go years ago, that nobodies gonna be in my healing springs and everything has to be mobile because everybody is everywhere 😆. So hots and burst heals is what made sense to me. Since taking my healplar into vet graven i feel like nb would or could be much more useful to me, especially with the added damage.

BahometZ

You know what would make healers feel less useless is having fewer one-shot mechanics in dungeons and trials. Can't really heal that, huh. Some of the latest dungeons have so much damage that you need to run a healer, for example there's no way you're doing Shipwright HM without one. And now they nerf healing, but not damage output. How does that make any sense?

The people who are talking about endgame PvE healing being too easy are ignoring how much of a minority good healers are. The vast majority of players still find basic vet content challenging. I'm glad some people are fine, but for the devs to talk about accessibility and then enact the changes that u35 brought just isn't logical.

PvP needed something done but not at the detriment to PvE. I'm not blaming PvP by the way, the devs decide how they want to implement changes, and they consistently miss the mark in balancing the two game modes, despite countless good ideas from the player community. It's hard to avoid the impression that devs are arrogant and tunnel-visioned.

BahometZ

I'd just like to add as well that in the first boss in Shipwright's Regret HM there is a strong DoT on all players of around 6k a tick, as well as a ground AoE on each player that can't be stacked, and yet sticky heals have been nerfed significantly, and now only ground HoTs can keep up with the damage. It eats through barrier and again, targeted heals can't be focused because players have to spread. I'm curious what ZOS think should be done here? Would love to see them attempt the fight.

Soarora

I'm a healer and I think healing needed nerfed

@BahometZ
vSWR HM is one of the examples I mentioned in my post but thank you for elaborating on the mechanic. I agree that one was already hard enough and I think it should be fine tuned to match the healing nerfs.
I haven’t really seen a healer drought. Actually, I’ve seen a lot more healers and have very rarely run into issues with their healing output (usually for reasons I can tell… though recently had one who stumped me). Though, it’s not been long since U35 and I don’t know anyone at the “beginning vet” level personally. It is illogical to make things harder after claiming accessibility though, I agree.
I don’t think one-shots cheapen healers as much as it forces people to be good at mechanics… not saying throwing one shots everywhere is a good idea though.

selig_fay

No opinion/other

endgamesmug wrote: »

I learnt pretty early on in the piece when i decided to give healing a go years ago, that nobodies gonna be in my healing springs and everything has to be mobile because everybody is everywhere 😆. So hots and burst heals is what made sense to me. Since taking my healplar into vet graven i feel like nb would or could be much more useful to me, especially with the added damage.

You know. I don't mind more complex mechanics for healers, the problem is they don't exist. Yes, I can use Psijics (and this seems like a thing that should be used in difficult moments for an additional tank of healing), but that's about it.

You know, people find eso difficult for some reason. But tanks refresh their buffs, debuffs and their main stat is a block that you can hold indefinitely. Healers should rotate buffs and heals and use burst heal when things get bad. Dps are just spinning their rotations. And of course we should all avoid things and do mechanics. Simple, actually it's not as hard as people say.

It's just that once I played one MMO as a healer. And my God, it's a completely different experience. This healer called temporary mobs for damage and never attacked himself. But his main mechanic is to create orbs that he places on the ground and that allies can pick up for healing or resources. So far it sounds like a light game, but in addition you had to position yourself near the team, since summoning mobs gives a buff to your team. If you don't see a problem then don't forget that you need to spawn orbs everywhere in the boss arena. Additionally you should have kept your debuffs on the boss. Additionally, you had to clear debuffs from the tank (because, funny, the boss also came prepared for the fight and you can reduce the armor of the tank or damage dps or just apply a debuff from which a person will die after a while). Additionally, you must provide burst heal if you need to save someone. And you still need to complete the boss mechanics in order not to die. And you should always explode your orbs for more sustain and healing for your group. Oh, and didn't you forget that you have to create them everywhere while your group absorbs them?

Sorry, but I just remembered a comment where a person said that eso is an action game and roles are no longer needed. And I just found it funny, because we really don't do as many different things as in other games. For example, in another game, you can stun raid the boss, but 10 players must give 1 type of stun and then the boss will fall and you can hit him effectively. It's just one of the options for how varied life dps can have for example.

Everest_Lionheart

Last night vCR+3 run MT holding in exe gets double baneful and two healers plus 3 DPS throwing heals on him could not get him out. Second main tank takes over gets baneful one healer goes down second MT goes down first MT back up baneful + fire = dead group wipes.

It’s not just the heals taking a beating, we are also losing DPS pulling double duty to try to get tanks out of a mechanic that still hits as hard pre nerf. It’s ugly out there right now. Even self healing is sketchy right now. As portal blade I never worried about my health and could stay reasonably topped off to dunk 2 orbs. Now my self heals can barely keep up if I try to dunk the second which kicks it to my MT. I had to call for him to dunk it 2 out of every 3 portals. Depending on where the shards spawned.

Content still needs some tuning in the damage department because even with self healing the HM trials are RNG as to whether you live or die. Get silenced by creeper with 2 orb dots in vCR you are dead, get fire with 2 orb dots you are dead, fire plus 1 orb dot plus 1 yaghra hitting you is also death. Only DK has the power to self heal back from the brink like that and I’m pretty sure the devs didn’t mean for us to run 7 DK dps in vCR.

Soarora

I'm a healer and I think healing needed nerfed

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

Last night vCR+3 run MT holding in exe gets double baneful and two healers plus 3 DPS throwing heals on him could not get him out. Second main tank takes over gets baneful one healer goes down second MT goes down first MT back up baneful + fire = dead group wipes.

It’s not just the heals taking a beating, we are also losing DPS pulling double duty to try to get tanks out of a mechanic that still hits as hard pre nerf. It’s ugly out there right now. Even self healing is sketchy right now. As portal blade I never worried about my health and could stay reasonably topped off to dunk 2 orbs. Now my self heals can barely keep up if I try to dunk the second which kicks it to my MT. I had to call for him to dunk it 2 out of every 3 portals. Depending on where the shards spawned.

Content still needs some tuning in the damage department because even with self healing the HM trials are RNG as to whether you live or die. Get silenced by creeper with 2 orb dots in vCR you are dead, get fire with 2 orb dots you are dead, fire plus 1 orb dot plus 1 yaghra hitting you is also death. Only DK has the power to self heal back from the brink like that and I’m pretty sure the devs didn’t mean for us to run 7 DK dps in vCR.

Yeah... I am not excited to try healing vCR+3 again. Cloudrest is definitely one of the trials that absolutely did not need a healing nerf and was perfectly fine and fun and difficult before U35. That's distressing to know that it's that bad in there, thank you for sharing. Regardless of what happens with healing, damage taken, and dps I hope we get pre-U35 Cloudrest back.

endgamesmug

selig_fay wrote: »

endgamesmug wrote: »

I learnt pretty early on in the piece when i decided to give healing a go years ago, that nobodies gonna be in my healing springs and everything has to be mobile because everybody is everywhere 😆. So hots and burst heals is what made sense to me. Since taking my healplar into vet graven i feel like nb would or could be much more useful to me, especially with the added damage.

You know. I don't mind more complex mechanics for healers, the problem is they don't exist. Yes, I can use Psijics (and this seems like a thing that should be used in difficult moments for an additional tank of healing), but that's about it.

You know, people find eso difficult for some reason. But tanks refresh their buffs, debuffs and their main stat is a block that you can hold indefinitely. Healers should rotate buffs and heals and use burst heal when things get bad. Dps are just spinning their rotations. And of course we should all avoid things and do mechanics. Simple, actually it's not as hard as people say.

It's just that once I played one MMO as a healer. And my God, it's a completely different experience. This healer called temporary mobs for damage and never attacked himself. But his main mechanic is to create orbs that he places on the ground and that allies can pick up for healing or resources. So far it sounds like a light game, but in addition you had to position yourself near the team, since summoning mobs gives a buff to your team. If you don't see a problem then don't forget that you need to spawn orbs everywhere in the boss arena. Additionally you should have kept your debuffs on the boss. Additionally, you had to clear debuffs from the tank (because, funny, the boss also came prepared for the fight and you can reduce the armor of the tank or damage dps or just apply a debuff from which a person will die after a while). Additionally, you must provide burst heal if you need to save someone. And you still need to complete the boss mechanics in order not to die. And you should always explode your orbs for more sustain and healing for your group. Oh, and didn't you forget that you have to create them everywhere while your group absorbs them?

Sorry, but I just remembered a comment where a person said that eso is an action game and roles are no longer needed. And I just found it funny, because we really don't do as many different things as in other games. For example, in another game, you can stun raid the boss, but 10 players must give 1 type of stun and then the boss will fall and you can hit him effectively. It's just one of the options for how varied life dps can have for example.

Im sorry you lost me, what exactly were you trying to communicate?

dmnqwk

I'm a healer and I think healing needed nerfed

What they've done is remove a lot of the healing power from healers to everybody in the buffs to personal heals.

Tanks - the ones who have 50k health and not 35-42k that people liked to have so they could get 5k more magicka - are facing 20k polar winds, 7.5k dark cloak ticks, 20k dragonknight shields for 2k magicka and other insane benefits while the DD are all capable of pushing out 25k/5 seconds with Vigor now.

Healers themselves have less power in HoTs while the dps and tanks have so much power in their hands now.

I mean, it does seem a little strange that a tank can:
20k shield for 6 seconds
8k/second puncture with the masters set
7.5k/second dark cloak tick OR polar wind out 20k to them plus someone else, and then enjoy 4.5k/2 seconds for 10
Get 2k when struck from leeching vines, on top of lifesteal

Healers, themselves, only have the power now in terms of Combat Prayer hitting multiple people - otherwise their single target options are just so weak against personal healing now. (it does mean, of course, that tanks need to stack health now because of how much stronger their personal healing/shields are with it)

WinterHeart626

No opinion/other

I’m neither here nor there on it, as I decided since U35 dropped, I may as well play some shenanigans until I sort out my nightblade DD.
So, I dragged out my old sorcerer, that I recently only levelled to 50, which I stopped playing during the pandemic.

Sooooo, cp785 or so sorcerer healer.
Didn’t have much in the way of healer skills, so I took what I could, and had a blast. NerfenSoul ring, Julianos, Vanus set, some monster helm that had mag regen, atronach mundus (my recovery with witch mothers is 3000)
There’s something to be said when you’re running an absolute trash build and are able to keep heals on the team during Vet Dungeons. Sure, close shaves, deaths to one shot mechs, however shenanigans it has been, and shall be.

Now if only I could drop those damn magma incarnate shoulders