Ok give it up...how's U35 in PVP?

DrSlaughtr

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Vetixio wrote: »

Haven't been on much cause of the infamous U35 as well it being a not well received patch the performance in Cyro seems worse. From when I have been on its a Stamblade and DK meta so the same as last patch just with less Caluurions so instead of 10k Caluurions procs its now 20k Assassin's Will procs so FUN!

20k merciless was possible before, Zos just made it easier to achieve that. But I agree it's pretty crazy now what nightblade is capable of. Instead of fixing nightblade toolkit like people want zos just thought to give them more damage and tankiness

They gave everyone damage and tankiness. Take this from someone who doesn't play that style. I play a cloak blade. I'm trying to attack people straight up with massive damage and watching as their defenses, healing and mara's simply negate all of it. Sure, I could throw on rallying cry and balorgs and run around spamming heals, too, but 1, that isn't fun for me, 2, that isn't a healthy ecosystem for balanced combat.

If you aren't playing the 'meta' right now the game is in a very rough spot. This is how 90% of players are operating right now.

1vXers:

Kite heal. Kite heal. Kite heal. Kite heal. Ultimate. Execute. If you kill everyone, great. If not, rinse and repeat. Most of these are DKs, wardens and brawl blades.

Zergs:

Burly tanks that do very little damage, so they run in big groups or entire zergs to overcome the fact they lack individual damage to kill anyone.

Everyone Else:
Struggle to kill anyone in the two groups above. It takes an overwhelming number of players to take down those two examples above. It isn't the players fault (though it's funny how people flock so quickly to the extremes). It's the fault of decision makers at the mothership who have decided this is what PVP should be like.

martinhpb16_ESO

Tberg725 wrote: »

And a lot of people complaining about NB bow have not really tried playing a NB that thing straight up missed or just does not hit in cyo people just happen to pose the videos of when they do get a good hit

E

I'm a beta high-end bow gankblade. I can just pew pew pew at grouped tankbots in this meta with practically no effect. If you can catch me you only have to shake a fist in my direction and I crumple.

Even tank meta was not this bad.

DrSlaughtr

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Tberg725 wrote: »

And a lot of people complaining about NB bow have not really tried playing a NB that thing straight up missed or just does not hit in cyo people just happen to pose the videos of when they do get a good hit

E

I'm a beta high-end bow gankblade. I can just pew pew pew at grouped tankbots in this meta with practically no effect. If you can catch me you only have to shake a fist in my direction and I crumple.

Even tank meta was not this bad.

Don't you know that you're supposed to give up, be a tank and run around with all the other heal bots in order to have fun?

TechMaybeHic

It's odd as I just had a Friday night where no one died as the awful meta has been. But then tonight, I had the most kills in 2-3 hours since pre-proc meta. Talking original ravager 7th legion days.

2 different classes so maybe it was that, but I'll spare the anecdotal details as people tend get defensive and I really don't know. Could just be a bunch of lowly alts trying to get last minute campaign rewards.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

ninjagank wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Vetixio wrote: »

Haven't been on much cause of the infamous U35 as well it being a not well received patch the performance in Cyro seems worse. From when I have been on its a Stamblade and DK meta so the same as last patch just with less Caluurions so instead of 10k Caluurions procs its now 20k Assassin's Will procs so FUN!

20k merciless was possible before, Zos just made it easier to achieve that. But I agree it's pretty crazy now what nightblade is capable of. Instead of fixing nightblade toolkit like people want zos just thought to give them more damage and tankiness

They gave everyone damage and tankiness. Take this from someone who doesn't play that style. I play a cloak blade. I'm trying to attack people straight up with massive damage and watching as their defenses, healing and mara's simply negate all of it. Sure, I could throw on rallying cry and balorgs and run around spamming heals, too, but 1, that isn't fun for me, 2, that isn't a healthy ecosystem for balanced combat.

If you aren't playing the 'meta' right now the game is in a very rough spot. This is how 90% of players are operating right now.

1vXers:

Kite heal. Kite heal. Kite heal. Kite heal. Ultimate. Execute. If you kill everyone, great. If not, rinse and repeat. Most of these are DKs, wardens and brawl blades.

Zergs:

Burly tanks that do very little damage, so they run in big groups or entire zergs to overcome the fact they lack individual damage to kill anyone.

Everyone Else:
Struggle to kill anyone in the two groups above. It takes an overwhelming number of players to take down those two examples above. It isn't the players fault (though it's funny how people flock so quickly to the extremes). It's the fault of decision makers at the mothership who have decided this is what PVP should be like.

Baste, 100% agree.

As crazy high as nb damage is this patch you would think we would be the one class capable of dropping them. Not going to say I have never managed to kill them, but it feels like you have to get perfect crit rng and land a bow proc to kill them. Anything less then that and they will easily just "kite heal".

I would really love to see someone at zos forced to sit down and stream playing pvp for a week. Idk what they think is going on or if this is exactly how they intend it to be, but either way they would be in for a rude awakening. They would either be shocked at how badly they have messed up, realize their vision is bad, or go into absolute denial/damage control. I would pay money to watch that horror show.

aurelius_fx

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

I would really love to see someone at zos forced to sit down and stream playing pvp for a week.

i would do absolutely anything to see that LOL

xDeusEJRx

ninjagank wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Vetixio wrote: »

Haven't been on much cause of the infamous U35 as well it being a not well received patch the performance in Cyro seems worse. From when I have been on its a Stamblade and DK meta so the same as last patch just with less Caluurions so instead of 10k Caluurions procs its now 20k Assassin's Will procs so FUN!

20k merciless was possible before, Zos just made it easier to achieve that. But I agree it's pretty crazy now what nightblade is capable of. Instead of fixing nightblade toolkit like people want zos just thought to give them more damage and tankiness

They gave everyone damage and tankiness. Take this from someone who doesn't play that style. I play a cloak blade. I'm trying to attack people straight up with massive damage and watching as their defenses, healing and mara's simply negate all of it. Sure, I could throw on rallying cry and balorgs and run around spamming heals, too, but 1, that isn't fun for me, 2, that isn't a healthy ecosystem for balanced combat.
.

I respectfully disagree. You can't attribute what nightblade can do to the other classes. As someone who plays every class, that's asinine.
There's no class that has the exact same capability that NB has and can do it as effectively, other than Dragonknight.
And DK is only that way because corrosive armor is a carry, even if you aren't the most skilled player. Without corrosive, most DKs are quite fodder and have pitiful damage as well. The loss of the OP 15k+ whip combos has severely dragged down what any average DK can do, but it's still the only class that's remotely comparable.

Wardens are only really powerful defensive wise, not to say they can't be offensive as well, but they still aren't comparable to nightblade even with the changes they received. Nothing on warden is comparable to getting a 41k heal from reaper's mark plus getting major berserk at the same time.

I'm not gonna argue the other classes because they are in a spot where they either severely lack compared to Nightblade or crutching on proc damage to do anything meaningful(procs aren't counted because procs aren't reflective of how the class itself is, and they can be applied to any class). Baseline nightblade just eclipses a baseline Necromancer, Templar and Sorcerer.


I've played multiple styles of nightblade, some of which you would call "non-meta". Even ranged magic nightblade is grossly overpowered. Being able to hit 20k+ bows. Plus reapers mark is just grossly overpowered. There's barely anything that can compare to the strength of reapers mark on live. Especially considering REAPERS MARK DOESN'T EVEN REQUIRE YOU TO FINISH THEM OFF. It only requires the marked target to die and you can get 41k+ healing from it.

Here's a screenshot of me on a destro staff magblade getting a 20k bow and 41k healing at the same time. Nightblade's offensive and defensive capability is just not comparable right now to anyone else.

DrSlaughtr

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

ninjagank wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Vetixio wrote: »

Haven't been on much cause of the infamous U35 as well it being a not well received patch the performance in Cyro seems worse. From when I have been on its a Stamblade and DK meta so the same as last patch just with less Caluurions so instead of 10k Caluurions procs its now 20k Assassin's Will procs so FUN!

20k merciless was possible before, Zos just made it easier to achieve that. But I agree it's pretty crazy now what nightblade is capable of. Instead of fixing nightblade toolkit like people want zos just thought to give them more damage and tankiness

They gave everyone damage and tankiness. Take this from someone who doesn't play that style. I play a cloak blade. I'm trying to attack people straight up with massive damage and watching as their defenses, healing and mara's simply negate all of it. Sure, I could throw on rallying cry and balorgs and run around spamming heals, too, but 1, that isn't fun for me, 2, that isn't a healthy ecosystem for balanced combat.
.

I respectfully disagree. You can't attribute what nightblade can do to the other classes. As someone who plays every class, that's asinine.
There's no class that has the exact same capability that NB has and can do it as effectively, other than Dragonknight.
And DK is only that way because corrosive armor is a carry, even if you aren't the most skilled player. Without corrosive, most DKs are quite fodder and have pitiful damage as well. The loss of the OP 15k+ whip combos has severely dragged down what any average DK can do, but it's still the only class that's remotely comparable.

Wardens are only really powerful defensive wise, not to say they can't be offensive as well, but they still aren't comparable to nightblade even with the changes they received. Nothing on warden is comparable to getting a 41k heal from reaper's mark plus getting major berserk at the same time.

I'm not gonna argue the other classes because they are in a spot where they either severely lack compared to Nightblade or crutching on proc damage to do anything meaningful(procs aren't counted because procs aren't reflective of how the class itself is, and they can be applied to any class). Baseline nightblade just eclipses a baseline Necromancer, Templar and Sorcerer.


I've played multiple styles of nightblade, some of which you would call "non-meta". Even ranged magic nightblade is grossly overpowered. Being able to hit 20k+ bows. Plus reapers mark is just grossly overpowered. There's barely anything that can compare to the strength of reapers mark on live. Especially considering REAPERS MARK DOESN'T EVEN REQUIRE YOU TO FINISH THEM OFF. It only requires the marked target to die and you can get 41k+ healing from it.

Here's a screenshot of me on a destro staff magblade getting a 20k bow and 41k healing at the same time. Nightblade's offensive and defensive capability is just not comparable right now to anyone else.

I don't think we are really disagreeing, to be fair. I made a general statement about the meta in general which has allowed for all sorts of insanity.

I think there are several things allowing meta builds to rumble over everyone else. Rallying cry, balorgs and others are carrying damage for tank builds. For NBs running the same set up, bow is an easy thing to build around and yes, it's devastating, but it isn't assassin's will's fault anymore than it's balorg's. The truth is, any situation that allows you to ignore damage, ignore damage, ignore damage until you get an ultimate and one skill ready to destroy isn't really good for PVP in my opinion.

As for reaper's mark, I personally never see it, because what usually happens when a NB tries it is everyone on the other team wheels around to find them. I couldn't fit it on my bar even if I tried. I'd have to dump cloak for it. If someone is using just for the berserk, that's a long game. You need to apply it, that person has to die, and THEN you have to take advantage of 10 seconds. I'm not trying to understate its effect, but it definitely requires a lot of things to go right.

Same for Grim Focus. You have to level it, keep it leveled, proc it, and have it land. There are so many things that can go wrong in there. Having said all that, reverting reapers mark and nerfing merc resolve would not hurt me really, so I have no major opinion. I think it's only sticking out right now because so many NBs are relying solely on it with an ultimate. There is no real rotation of skills on those builds.

Just my two cents.

jtm1018

katorga wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

NB this patch. Others are meh.

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Cast_El wrote: »

Bad. People don't die. NB hit hard and they're tankier

Those two statements are incompatible.

I'm deleting people with a very simple NB bow build. Easily better than Savage Werewolf bow sorc was. ZOS really overloaded the class with goodies in U35. Necro is still bombing effectively, and works reasonably well using the same bow build as the NB (minus 10% extra damage, 10% crit, 15% speed, cloak.....).

I don't think I'm seeing a lot of players with mara's balm yet, which might negatively impact me, but I think it will be nerfed to useless soon, and I'll stay in business.

Those statements make sense to me lol. Glass cannon NBs are all cannon and no glass now. They can kill you in 2 shots, but they are significantly more difficult kill in return. Unless you have the significant burst potential of a NB or Necro, on other classes it's difficult to kill players after the changes to damage in U35. And with Mara it'll be worse.

People don't die is incompatible with the statement that NB kills you in two shots.

People die very easily to one class.

We should give it a few more days, before deeming everything else meh.
I'm having a blast on ranged plar, jbeam shreds ppl, and being able to proc burning light while executing with beam made it even more deadly then before.

Fair enough. I don't play a templar and no clue how they will shake out. Can templars even learn to play without jabs?

added:

If I recall correctly there were some Templar ranged gank builds way back using dark flare, might have to dust my templar off and try something similar with the changes to beam, the unblockable ranged stun.

I play a magplar without jabs.
Have you heard a javelin that ignores defense?
3 steps,
Power of light, javelin 4-5x then oppress.
It should be dead.
If its still alive runaway.
Rinse, repeat.

Caribou77

DKs still seem the most overpowered, in my experience. Still seeing far more DKs than any other class in BGs.

I can hit them with 5 skills to their 1 on my Mag Warden, and they still don’t die. They do occasionally run away though.☺️

robpr

Tried magsorc, couldnt do jack crap. Converted that sorc to stam, suddenly I am able to do damage. Not having to use Power Overload to even dent someone's health is a wonderful feeling. I dunno even what changed to be honest. Frags and Force Pulse do less damage than Crystal Weapon + Bound Armaments with similar stats.

Veinblood1965

robpr wrote: »

Tried magsorc, couldnt do jack crap. Converted that sorc to stam, suddenly I am able to do damage. Not having to use Power Overload to even dent someone's health is a wonderful feeling. I dunno even what changed to be honest. Frags and Force Pulse do less damage than Crystal Weapon + Bound Armaments with similar stats.

I'm still playing my mag sorc and I've noticed a significant drop down in kills for a while now. I just keep playing it though sometimes. Might be time to convert over to stam.

Dem_kitkats1

Caribou77 wrote: »

DKs still seem the most overpowered, in my experience. Still seeing far more DKs than any other class in BGs.

I can hit them with 5 skills to their 1 on my Mag Warden, and they still don’t die. They do occasionally run away though.☺️

Really? In my experience there's been about an equal amount of wardens to dks. Also an emergence of sorcs because ppl are tired of tanks and roots.

Caribou77

More StamWardens now, for sure. Theyre pretty strong after U35. But Dks are still the most popular, in my experience. I play mostly BGs on Xbox NA, and it’s not uncommon for half or more of the players to be Dk. More Nbs now, too.

Dojohoda

It is wretched.

Dem_kitkats1

@Caribou77 ah I see. Maybe it's a bit different on PC NA. I agree though DK is still going strong.