Set Accessibility in u35

cicisch

I greatly appreciate the intentions of this patch, but I disagree with the implementation because it is still hurting players at all skill levels and isn't actually achieving its goals. With the discussion about making the gap between the floor and the ceiling smaller, I feel that buff sets are being largely overlooked in their utility and power. Higher end groups have higher uptimes of the major buff and debuff sets used in the game, thus increasing their overall group damage compared to groups where the overall uptimes are lower.

Making these sets easier to use and maintain will do more for accessibility than nerfing damage across the board or buffing medium weaving. There are also some skills, especially support based skills, that can be tweaked to make tanking and healing more accessible.

The change to PA that was included in u35 week 5 PTS is a good example:

Powerful Assault:
Increased the duration of this set to 15 seconds, up from 10, to better match the durations of many of the morphs in the skill line.
Increased the radius to 12 meters, up from 10.

With that in mind, I'll be going over some of the more commonly used buff/debuff sets used in group compositions (or will be expected to be used in u35) and highlighting how to make them more accessible.

Aegis of Galenwe
Current 5 piece: (5 items) When you Block, you grant Empower to 11 allies within 15 meters for 3 seconds, increasing the damage of their Light and Heavy Attacks by 40%. This effect can occur once every 2 seconds.

Proposed change: Remove the ICD and raise the buff to 10 seconds as proposed earlier for empower in the u35 PTS cycle. Increase the radius to 28m since empower is now a PvE only buff and this set will be on tanks who will often be more than 15m away from the group.

Elemental Catalyst
Current 5 piece bonus: Whenever you deal Flame, Shock, or Frost Damage, you apply a stack of Flame, Shock, or Frost Weakness to the enemy for 3 seconds. Each stack of an Elemental Weakness increases their Critical Damage taken by 5%. An enemy can only have one stack of each Elemental Weakness at a time.

Proposed change: Increase the duration to 6 or 8 seconds (possibly even 10) to be more consistent with sticky dots ticking every 2 seconds. Allow enchants to proc the set again for greater build flexibility.

Encratis's Behemoth
Current 2 piece: Dealing Flame Damage to an enemy grants you Behemoth's Aura for 12 seconds that reaches up to 12 meters. You and up to 11 group members in the aura reduce Flame Damage taken by 5%. Enemies in the aura increase their Flame Damage taken by 5%. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.

Proposed change: Please let enchants proc this set again, to allow for supports to have greater build flexibility.

Master Architect/War Machine
Current 5 Piece: When you use an Ultimate ability while in combat, you and the closest 5 group members within 28 meters of you gain Major Slayer for 1 second per 10 Ultimate spent, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by 10%.

Proposed change: Make these sets smart target those without the debuff to make it a more viable alternative to ROJO. Change the max stat 2 piece on each set to be spell/weapon critical to make it more attractive for DDs.

Vestments of Olorime
Current 5 piece bonus: Casting abilities that leave an effect on the ground in combat will create a circle of might for 5 seconds. You and your group members in the circle gain Major Courage for 20 seconds, increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 430 for 20 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.

Proposed change: The cooldown and circle need to match each other once again. Either allow the proc to occur every 5 seconds (preferred for more mobile or spread out fights), or make the circle last for 10. Buffing this set which can be single barred, over SPC which cannot be in order to obtain reliable uptimes, will allow supports to utilize arena weapons more often and offer more group support.

Way of Martial Knowledge
Current 5 piece: While your Stamina is below 50%, your Light Attacks cause the enemy to take 8% additional damage for 5 seconds. This effect can occur once every 8 seconds.

Proposed changes: Decrease the stamina requirement to 60% so this set is easier to use in PvE scenarios. Increase the damage window to 8 seconds and increase the cooldown to 12 seconds to allow for a greater opportunity for stamina management.

Skills

Glacial Colossus: Remove the stun from this morph and have it extend the duration of Major Vulnerability to 16 seconds at max rank (1 second added for each rank up)

Stonefist: Increase the duration of Stagger to 10 seconds.

Other Buffs/Debuffs

Minor Brittle: Remove the ice staff requirement for this debuff. Increase it from 4 seconds to 10 seconds to allow it to be kept up more passively.

@ZOS_Liforce I would be especially interested in your feedback on the above set changes.

Thanks to @Krymsyn_Panda for reading this over!

kojou

This makes a lot more sense than what the combat team did, and wouldn’t cause us to have to rethink our build for the 3rd time this year…

GloatingSwine

cicisch wrote: »

Other Buffs/Debuffs

Minor Brittle: Remove the ice staff requirement for this debuff. Increase it from 4 seconds to 10 seconds to allow it to be kept up more passively.

@ZOS_Liforce I would be especially interested in your feedback on the above set changes.

Thanks to @Krymsyn_Panda for reading this over!

Brittle is tied to applying Chilled *and* the frost staff. It doesn't matter though because your tank has a frost staff and will apply this for you when they tap Frost Clench (which also guarantees it). So you don't really need to change this to change the availability.

Increasing its duration off of 4 seconds would be the thing though.

Galiferno

If Stonefist was extended to 10 seconds and the cast time was removed, it would do a lot to help accessibility for DK tanks who don't want to feel massive anxiety every time they try to use that skill on a boss.

Ksariyu

Counter-suggestion: Reduce the reliance on sets and buffs across the board. Reduce the duration of pretty much every buff and debuff to help make the game actually action-oriented again. Increase the natural synergy within each skill line to make beginner builds more intuitive, using unique mechanics that give each class a distinct rhythm and cadence so that mastering a rotation is more about muscle memory than watching timers. Relegate sets to being more about style/preference rather than creating an ever-increasing list of must-use sets with insane utility and power. Take sets that give easy access to incredibly potent unique buffs/debuffs and give that power to class skill lines instead.

BronzeCaiman

You forgot one set

Infallible Aether
Make this set a unique 5% damage taken debuff. (Only applies on monsters)

cicisch

BlackArgonian wrote: »

You forgot one set

Infallible Aether
Make this set a unique 5% damage taken debuff. (Only applies on monsters)

I didn't include IA because it hasn't been commonly used since they added minor vuln to swarm and warden was and remains essential to every group comp due to minor toughness and groupwide major resolve/ward. I wouldn't mind seeing utility added to it - maybe unique damage taken like you suggested, or reworked to add power to debuffs (similar vein to Nazaray without tying it to ultimates - but of course not as powerful since it would have higher uptimes).

Ksariyu wrote: »

Counter-suggestion: Reduce the reliance on sets and buffs across the board. Reduce the duration of pretty much every buff and debuff to help make the game actually action-oriented again. Increase the natural synergy within each skill line to make beginner builds more intuitive, using unique mechanics that give each class a distinct rhythm and cadence so that mastering a rotation is more about muscle memory than watching timers. Relegate sets to being more about style/preference rather than creating an ever-increasing list of must-use sets with insane utility and power. Take sets that give easy access to incredibly potent unique buffs/debuffs and give that power to class skill lines instead.

This still doesn't increase accessibility which is the goal of the patch and nerfs everyone across the board. Such big sweeping changes would require content to be evaluated at every level and tying them to classes would be harder for balance, IMO. Also, having to learn a rotation for each class would make it harder for new players to master the game overall, not easier.

Krymsyn_Panda

Ksariyu wrote: »

Counter-suggestion: Reduce the reliance on sets and buffs across the board. Reduce the duration of pretty much every buff and debuff to help make the game actually action-oriented again. Increase the natural synergy within each skill line to make beginner builds more intuitive, using unique mechanics that give each class a distinct rhythm and cadence so that mastering a rotation is more about muscle memory than watching timers. Relegate sets to being more about style/preference rather than creating an ever-increasing list of must-use sets with insane utility and power. Take sets that give easy access to incredibly potent unique buffs/debuffs and give that power to class skill lines instead.

Reducing the duration just further encourages high APM players to master high uptimes on buffs/debuffs. This does not lower the skill gap and does not increase accessibility or increase the available player pool.

Scalpels not sledgehammers. Tweaking existing sets to be more accessible for all levels of play is much less intrusive than completely reworking the sets that you feel have potent unique buffs/debuffs.

Ksariyu

cicisch wrote: »

This still doesn't increase accessibility which is the goal of the patch and nerfs everyone across the board. Such big sweeping changes would require content to be evaluated at every level and tying them to classes would be harder for balance, IMO. Also, having to learn a rotation for each class would make it harder for new players to master the game overall, not easier

A lot of the must-use meta sets come from DLC dungeons/trials that are often some of the hardest content in the game. By transferring the power of those sets to class skills, you are directly easing access to those effects. This also allows new players to start practicing with these effects much earlier in the game. A big part of the skill gap comes from the fact that you're basically playing a different game between overland/base-game normal dungeons, and the vet trials that we consider endgame.
As for balance, it's much easier to balance something that is restricted to a certain element. For example, if you gave Major Courage to DKs only, you would only have to balance it within the DKs kit, rather than against all six classes. This would also really help class identity, far more than the current "One minor buff" trend we have right now.
Finally, a new player isn't worried about "mastering the game overall". That's the literal opposite end of the spectrum from a new player. Furthermore, a big part of the appeal in horizontal progression is getting to learn new classes. If each class feels the same, then what's the point in picking up a new one?

Krymsyn_Panda wrote: »

Reducing the duration just further encourages high APM players to master high uptimes on buffs/debuffs. This does not lower the skill gap and does not increase accessibility or increase the available player pool.

Scalpels not sledgehammers. Tweaking existing sets to be more accessible for all levels of play is much less intrusive than completely reworking the sets that you feel have potent unique buffs/debuffs.

I understand what you're saying. However, in an action game, players will always benefit from having a higher APM. Aiming, moving, decision-making - these are all actions where the faster you can do them, the more proficient you'll be, and don't even involve actually using attacks. The skill gap is not really the problem the devs are trying to solve I think, but rather the power gap between a mid-level player and a well-practiced raider.
I would also argue that the current buff timers and especially the ones on PTS start to create the opposite issue, where they become difficult to keep up because you simply forget about them. There are too many and/or too obscure visual effects to keep track of buffs by looking at your character, and there are literally a dozen+ timers floating at the bottom of the screen which can be very difficult for a new player to track. Shorter buff timers are easier to track when they're treated more as the lead-in to another combination of skills. In that way they can feel more like part of the rotation rather than a separate element floating independently of your rotation like they do now.
I'll be honest regarding scalpel changes; I think the game has moved beyond where that's helpful. Between the unfinished hybrid changes, the game's over-reliance on AoEs and DoTs, the complete loss of class-identity with the transition to LA weaving, and now U35, the game is going to need some MAJOR overhauls to find its footing again. Let's also consider that this game's combat has perpetually been its most critiqued component. There's a very small percentage of players who really find the current meta engaging, thus that small player pool you're referring to.

WrathOfInnos

Great points. I don't see why they have been making sets like EC more difficult to use (it was previously 5s duration and easier to proc). It hasn't affected the ceiling, they just jump through the hoops and get perfect uptime, but the mid range suffers. Similar story for Olorime, there was no reason to increase it's difficulty.

For MA and WM the target limit should just be all 12 players in a group. Adjust the duration if necessary, but targeting which half it hits is an unnecessary hurdle.

Stonefist should also have the cast time removed. A lot of tanks die to dropped block for this 1/4 slow cast on an otherwise instant ability.

SCP343

Lets nerf EVERY dmg skill, reduce their dps by 30%, and to compensate for this in pve, let's reduce the HP of the bosses by 10% :DDDDDDdddddddddddddDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Lets nerf EVERY dmg skill but dont touch any healing skills except restoration staff healing so people can fight forever with their 1500 aoe dps :dDDDDDDDDDDDD

Lykeion

Glad to see that class representative is still a thing. I have an additional request: since the time of the lotus fan was extended to 20s, should be given to the minor vulnerability the same extended to 20s, otherwise, in order to ensure debuff coverage, the player still needs to cast a lotus fan every 10s, which is unreasonable

Pevey

Lykeion wrote: »

Glad to see that class representative is still a thing. I have an additional request: since the time of the lotus fan was extended to 20s, should be given to the minor vulnerability the same extended to 20s, otherwise, in order to ensure debuff coverage, the player still needs to cast a lotus fan every 10s, which is unreasonable

Class reps unfortunately are not a thing. But people at ZOS who update forum roles are also not a thing.