Would this solve the ball group problem?

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

I have been thinking about how the dark brotherhood skill line has zero abilities or ults and I think I have come up with an idea that would finally allow ball groups to be defeated by uncoordinated groups. What this game has been needing for a while now is an isolation ability of some kind and I think the DB skill line would fit perfectly. I am afraid that since I am suggesting this they will now never implement anything like this, but with the numbers sorted out I think this could actually work. Bombing was a massive failure, so its time for a real working solution.

New ult: Voids embrace
cost: 400

Up to 5 enemy players within 5ft and yourself become locked in the void for 6 seconds. While in the void become immune to damage, all effects are stripped(armor effects included), cannot move, and cannot act in anyway or be acted upon. Effect cannot be removed until the timer runs out. Needs at least 1 enemy player to have any effect.(to prevent this being used in pve as 6 seconds of invulnerability)

Morph 1: Hungering void
Any enemy player in the area of effect after 1 second becomes trapped themselves. Enemies trapped this way ignore the target limit of 5.

Morph 2: Sightless void
Enemy players caught now also have their UI/screen blacked out for the initial duration. When the effect ends for 6 additional seconds victims will be unable to see allegiance of players and everyone will appear as shadow images(like the nb ability). Certain ui elements may also have to be disabled for that extra 6 seconds so that mods cannot circumvent the effect.

The idea of this ult is that it would make coordination much harder and trapped players would not be able to contribute to the ball for the duration. To prevent ball groups from using this themselves I would say slotting it would remove the 50% less damage received effect from battle spirit and cap hp at 20k. Sure they could keep one guy in the ball with it slotted, but he wouldn't survive very well. Wouldn't be an auto win against ball groups, but would give uncoordinated groups a much better chance at beating them.

Alternatively or maybe we could get two ults.

Ult 2: Garrote
cost: 400

While crouched, undetected, and behind your target stun an enemy player and yourself for 6 seconds. All active effects are removed from enemy player. The target's allies can activate the set free synergy while standing within 1ft of the trapped player, cleansing the effect. The target can break free early, but doing so costs 25% max magicka/stamina per second remaining and reduces stam/mag regen by 25% per second remaining . Death of either player ends the effect early. While slotted health is capped at 20k and armor is capped at 10k.

Morph 1: Take hostage

Player takes 30% less damage while holding an enemy player and shares damage received with the target. Targets allies can no longer break the target free.

Morph 2: Hide the body

Player can move at stealth speed while holding an enemy player. Both you and the target become invisible(to the users enemies)for the duration. If the target dies while under this effect they leave behind no body to resurrect and must respawn at a keep/outpost. Being revealed causes the effect to immediately end.

The ball group would either be forced to try and rescue the captured player which would substantially reduce their mobility or leave them behind which over time would weaken the group. I understand this could be used against solo players as well, so I made sure the effect could be broken solo at a cost(since this ult does have a steep ult cost).

Numbers obviously are placeholders to give an idea of the intended function of both ults. I want both these ults to be used by assassin's which is why they cap hp/armor while slotted. Would like to hear from our resident ball group players about what kind of effect this could have. Would this actually make you beatable without being used to an even greater effect by your groups? As an addition to the introduction of these ults I would want zos to figure out what they think the assassin role should be in pvp and balance accordingly. Based on the nerf history they do not like instant kills or ganking to be the primary role. Figure out what that role should do and make it viable on all classes(not just nb).

Nemeliom

All your ideas seem like if used correctly by the ballgroup it would be a total broken system. And no one playing solo would dare play a 20k max health and 10k armor just to try and kill 1 enemy on a ballgroup of 20.


Fixing ballgroups should be as easy as not stacking the same healing on same target. Only refresh the length. That would make it already playable enough.

Also, make Occult Overload and/or Vicious Death and/or plaguebreak explode only when there are 3 or more targets on the area of damage. To avoid killing small groups so easily and still hit the big ones hard.

Even make dark convergence work only if there are 3 or more players on the area. Otherwise, no pull at all.

I belive it should be pretty easy to fix everything just with the first point.

katorga

Anything you provide players to counter groups, only gets magnified 12x when used by a group.

It is a group game and grouping is the most effective and efficient way to play it. The only alternative is choosing modes with arbitrary, forced handicaps implemented like BGs or duels.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

Nemeliom wrote: »

All your ideas seem like if used correctly by the ballgroup it would be a total broken system. And no one playing solo would dare play a 20k max health and 10k armor just to try and kill 1 enemy on a ballgroup of 20.


Fixing ballgroups should be as easy as not stacking the same healing on same target. Only refresh the length. That would make it already playable enough.

Also, make Occult Overload and/or Vicious Death and/or plaguebreak explode only when there are 3 or more targets on the area of damage. To avoid killing small groups so easily and still hit the big ones hard.

Even make dark convergence work only if there are 3 or more players on the area. Otherwise, no pull at all.

I belive it should be pretty easy to fix everything just with the first point.

Team players would absolutely take that hit to hp and armor. Very important that it ruins survivability to make it unappealing to ball groups. Wouldn't want another DC situation to repeat itself. Idk how important isolation would even be as a utility for ball groups anyways. They have the tools already to just blow away a whole group, so no need to isolate people. Do you play in a ball group? Not saying it would have no practical use at all to them, I am sure they could make use of it. I just think it would be more punishing when used against coordinated players rather then a group of randoms.

Yeah for sure heals shouldn't stack, but pver's would throw a fit unfortunately. Could make it only apply in pvp, but with that being the obvious solution since day one for every issue in pvp I doubt zos will ever do it. To do it now would almost be insulting and would undoubtedly hurt their egos to admit we were right all along. No I think we are going to get random proc sets that no one asked for until by some miracle pvp is fixed.

Personally I think bomb effects and dc should just be removed. When is the last time they were used for their actual purpose? Even old school bombers were just blowing up people repairing doors or idling on a flag. Not once have they worked against ball groups and they never will. Often times it just ruins big team fights and forces everyone to wait until they think all the dc procs have been used(which is never). You will see this very often when the doors to inner keep are opened. Anyone who rushes in gets the DC proc and the rest sit at doorway. Getting very tiresome indeed.

katorga wrote: »

Anything you provide players to counter groups, only gets magnified 12x when used by a group.

It is a group game and grouping is the most effective and efficient way to play it. The only alternative is choosing modes with arbitrary, forced handicaps implemented like BGs or duels.

Of course, but the idea is to create something that will be more impactful when used against a coordinated group. Every player in those ball groups has a purpose to the group and if you remove enough of the utility they are providing they eventually crumble. 9 out of 10 times that is how they are eventually evicted from the keep. This is why they build for such high hp because if you could just gank them 1 by 1 they wouldn't last. Their mobility is also very important, so forcing them to choose to defend the isolated players or keep moving puts them in a bad situation either way.

MISTFORMBZZZ

xD

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

xD

Come on man!

Be honest how bad would it be for your group if 5 players got trapped and blinded for 6 seconds and then had their UI discombobulated for an additional 6 seconds. Good comms would be very crucial, but even assuming you had the best possible group communication those 5 players would have to be confused.

How would you mitigate the damage? Would the group keep moving to avoid the chasers or would you stay close to the trapped team members to herd them back into the ball? Would your group even survive 6 seconds without 5 members or be able to recover from that? Would you have a player in the ball equipped with the ult despite him being capped on hp/armor? If so how would you prevent him from getting constantly killed due to the poor defense?

Tommy_The_Gun

Unfortunately, the only way to balance ball-groups is to actually add a condition that would check group size and would make things less powerful the larger the group is. This is the only way for the game to distinguish 12 solo players running in a "zerg surf" mode vs 12 players who are grouped.

Ironically, something like this already exists in ESO. Pale Order ring and Rallying Cry set have something like this.

Since Cyro is a mixed content, where all play modes & play style exists at the same space and there is no MM at all - then it is no brainer to use best possible tactics possible & seal club everything else. The side effect is it makes everything else obsolete.

I think that something like this (group size scaling) could be even added to battle spirit, so that it would affect everything (skills, sets, ultimates, passives etc).

etchedpixels

If you add group size penalties then they'll all just ungroup and run co-ordinated on discord ungrouped. Meanwhile the non ballgroup people would need to be in groups to co-ordinate. So that would actually make it worse. And making heals and stuff only work in group was tried before. Everyone hated it and it messed up all the un-coordinated groups and solo healers.

There isn't a magic cure for ballgroups. Fixing healing stacking would improve the current situation a lot but ballgroups are always going to be strong because they are co-ordinated and playing and training together.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Unfortunately, the only way to balance ball-groups is to actually add a condition that would check group size and would make things less powerful the larger the group is. This is the only way for the game to distinguish 12 solo players running in a "zerg surf" mode vs 12 players who are grouped.

Ironically, something like this already exists in ESO. Pale Order ring and Rallying Cry set have something like this.

Since Cyro is a mixed content, where all play modes & play style exists at the same space and there is no MM at all - then it is no brainer to use best possible tactics possible & seal club everything else.

I think that something like this (group size scaling) could be even added to battle spirit, so that it would affect everything (skills, sets, ultimates, passives etc).

I think they would just ungroup if that change was made unfortunately. I don't want grouping to suck either. I just want the absolutely insane lag ball groups cause to stop. We will never be able to see the full picture of how much damage they have done to this games reputation over the years due to the lag they cause.

Tommy_The_Gun

etchedpixels wrote: »

If you add group size penalties then they'll all just ungroup and run co-ordinated on discord ungrouped. Meanwhile the non ballgroup people would need to be in groups to co-ordinate. So that would actually make it worse. And making heals and stuff only work in group was tried before. Everyone hated it and it messed up all the un-coordinated groups and solo healers.

There isn't a magic cure for ballgroups. Fixing healing stacking would improve the current situation a lot but ballgroups are always going to be strong because they are co-ordinated and playing and training together.

Non ball-group would remain non-grouped. Idk why you think that all of the sudden solo players would feel the need to make groups. Nothing changes for them & almost nothing for small scale groups.

I also doubt it would make ball groups to disband & play as "solo" group. Coordinating through voice chat would make it very hard. They all "follow crown" (group leader). No group means that they won't be able to follow anyone. If they make 2 or 4 smaller groups, it would be significantly harder for them to coordinate.

If there isn't any fix for the ball groups and to how this play style dominates over the others, then I don't see any hope to save PvP in this game. It is no different than snipe builds we had in the past. Play-style overperfors - it gets nerfed. Ball group playstyle IS o overperforming and the reason why it was not nerfed in a meaningful way is that ZOS cannot find a way to do so, without harming everything else too much. Group scaling is imho the only way to nerf groups & only groups.

Currently we have incredible lag problems in this game (whenever it is caused by ball groups or not). One can say that other problems are irrelevant. True. Now those are kinda irrelevant. But, the fact is that lag kinda "masks" other serious issues. If all of the sudden, one day we would have lag-free experience (I doubt that) - then guess what the next issue will be... The fact that we have one problematic thing does not mean we should ignore other problematic thing.

Master_Kas

Wierd in these threads how noone ever mentions snow treaders mythic.. which I believe is the tool to survival for the better ballgroups (besides stacking heals). xD

Zos could start by nerfing/changing snow treaders completly.
They won't be able to keep perfect uptime on snare removals/immunities during big laggy fights.

Will lead to being able to get some in their groups stuck by roots/snares in meatbags/siege damage/negates.

As long as they can constantly move around without being affected by roots and snares (while having major expedition casted on them) it will be hard/impossible to stop them without a similar group of your own.

LarsS

Ballgroups are people regularly playing together, they are on voice communication and their builds are adapted to support each other, they can be more or less optimazed depending on playing style. They use tactics like avoiding damage by always beeing on the move and to lure enemies in choke points for burst damage.

ZOS have tried to decrease their power many times, visicous death, dark convergens and plauge breaker is just a few examples. It did not work, balls will always have an edge due to better organization and builds. I my experience the best you can do would be to make all campaigns non-proc and non-cp, that reduces their power, but they will still be strong.

MISTFORMBZZZ

Master_Kas wrote: »

Wierd in these threads how noone ever mentions snow treaders mythic.. which I believe is the tool to survival for the better ballgroups (besides stacking heals). xD

snowtreaders are bae , in my group nobody plays without the right shoes hehe

Wolfpaw

No, some of the PvP community sure spend a lot of time complaining... ZOS did release a solution, GO Play No-Proc.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

Alright so far no one has posted any thoughts on the idea of introducing isolation ults to the game. Plenty of people say no, but no elaboration at all. Don't have to be my suggested ults at all, just curious what effect people think they would have. Not just on ball groups, but the meta in general. I know from first hand experience that if you completely isolate someone from their ball they are very easy kills. Many don't even attempt to fight back.

Tommy_The_Gun

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Alright so far no one has posted any thoughts on the idea of introducing isolation ults to the game. Plenty of people say no, but no elaboration at all. Don't have to be my suggested ults at all, just curious what effect people think they would have. Not just on ball groups, but the meta in general. I know from first hand experience that if you completely isolate someone from their ball they are very easy kills. Many don't even attempt to fight back.

I can imagine that if there would be nothing preventing ball groups from using those "isolation ults" themselves - then ball groups would run those and they would have even more CC lag power at their disposal. When Weapon ultimates were introduced, I clearly remember that destro ulti had a dev comment that went like this: "this is to force players to spread out". It was supposed to be a counter for ball groups... and we all know how it ended up. That is the problem. How to add a counter for a ball group, without ball groups using that counter themselves 🤔 ?

Holycannoli

Most fun way to counter ball groups is to do what Rift did and have a class that uses the ball group's skill use and even movement against them if they stay stacked. Target activates a skill, it causes AOE. Target moves, it causes AOE. Sometimes it can spread and cause the effect itself in an AOE so everyone activating a skill causes AOE.

ESO's problem is stacked healing though.

mocap

Nemeliom wrote: »

All your ideas seem like if used correctly by the ballgroup it would be a total broken system

generally speaking, yes: if something appears that should be aimed to fight ballgroup, it is usually immediately used by ballgroup itself kekw

There are much simpler options, like reduce number of cross heals. Or you can just roll non cp campaing, there are no immortal raid groups.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

mocap wrote: »

Nemeliom wrote: »

All your ideas seem like if used correctly by the ballgroup it would be a total broken system

generally speaking, yes: if something appears that should be aimed to fight ballgroup, it is usually immediately used by ballgroup itself kekw

There are much simpler options, like reduce number of cross heals. Or you can just roll non cp campaing, there are no immortal raid groups.

Do you think ball groups would use the ults I suggested even if it capped their hp to 20k and armor to 10k? I think people are overlooking that detail in my original post. That level of defense is so low that even with heals being stacked they would instantly die to any damage build chasing their group. I understood ball groups would adopt the ults themselves if their was no downside, so I made sure to make them unappealing to them.

Wolfpaw

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

Nemeliom wrote: »

All your ideas seem like if used correctly by the ballgroup it would be a total broken system

generally speaking, yes: if something appears that should be aimed to fight ballgroup, it is usually immediately used by ballgroup itself kekw

There are much simpler options, like reduce number of cross heals. Or you can just roll non cp campaing, there are no immortal raid groups.

Do you think ball groups would use the ults I suggested even if it capped their hp to 20k and armor to 10k? I think people are overlooking that detail in my original post. That level of defense is so low that even with heals being stacked they would instantly die to any damage build chasing their group. I understood ball groups would adopt the ults themselves if their was no downside, so I made sure to make them unappealing to them.

We would assign it to a glass cannon nb rangebombers outside of group, some do this now for additional burst.

Overall this is silly, ball groups are here to stay through any changes.

neferpitou73

Master_Kas wrote: »

Wierd in these threads how noone ever mentions snow treaders mythic.. which I believe is the tool to survival for the better ballgroups (besides stacking heals). xD

Zos could start by nerfing/changing snow treaders completly.
They won't be able to keep perfect uptime on snare removals/immunities during big laggy fights.

Will lead to being able to get some in their groups stuck by roots/snares in meatbags/siege damage/negates.

As long as they can constantly move around without being affected by roots and snares (while having major expedition casted on them) it will be hard/impossible to stop them without a similar group of your own.

A couple of ball group leads have mentioned it IIRC in addition to healing scaling with the wrong stats and harmony. Of course those people's suggestions are ignored in favor of people who have no idea what they're talking about.

Danse_Mayhem

Not a single set, skill, strategy, theory or anything at all has ever in the slightest aided the little guy against the big group in the history of eso, and it never ever will. Every set that comes out to counter ball groups, is always just used BY the ball groups, or zergs to better effect, and small scale dies a bit more every time.

Some nice ideas to read but my gawd… Can you imagine if ball groups / zergs got hold of a skill that froze you in stasis and turned your screen black? So your return to the game 5s later to a stack of AOEs to kill you even faster?

The -only- counter to ball groups will be if ZOS remove cross healing, and remove the ability to stack more than one instance of the same heal (mostly regen)

Until then, ball groups will be near immortal and no amount of plaguebreak, occult overload or whatever else that comes out will change that.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

Danse_Mayhem wrote: »

Some nice ideas to read but my gawd… Can you imagine if ball groups / zergs got hold of a skill that froze you in stasis and turned your screen black? So your return to the game 5s later to a stack of AOEs to kill you even faster?

I get it, but in order to take advantage of the disoriented players the ball would have to slow down a bit in order to stay in range of the people they froze. Balls never stop moving or they become vulnerable. I think I could see them using it defensively rather then offensively.

Maybe they would keep a nb around in stealth for the sole purpose of dropping that ult like wolf suggested. Maybe, but I just don't know if they would really need it or if it would be worth it for them. That is one squishy that can easily set off a bomb in the group if he ventures too close. People also love to hunt nbs, so I think as soon as the community realized that specific ball group runs a stealth blade they would be looking for him every time. Well at least I would be looking for him.

PhoenixGrey

katorga wrote: »

Anything you provide players to counter groups, only gets magnified 12x when used by a group. .

Dynamic ultimate lol

Old vicious death.

Basically revert the game to any patch 4 yrs back and you have a lot of counters for groups without affecting solo play

It's not that hard to introduce something to counter groups. IDK why ppl think it is.

MISTFORMBZZZ

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Ult 2: Garrote
cost: 400

While crouched, undetected, and behind your target stun an enemy player and yourself for 6 seconds. All active effects are removed from enemy player. The target's allies can activate the set free synergy while standing within 1ft of the trapped player, cleansing the effect. The target can break free early, but doing so costs 25% max magicka/stamina per second remaining and reduces stam/mag regen by 25% per second remaining . Death of either player ends the effect early. While slotted health is capped at 20k and armor is capped at 10k.

Morph 1: Take hostage

Player takes 30% less damage while holding an enemy player and shares damage received with the target. Targets allies can no longer break the target free.

Morph 2: Hide the body

Player can move at stealth speed while holding an enemy player. Both you and the target become invisible(to the users enemies)for the duration. If the target dies while under this effect they leave behind no body to resurrect and must respawn at a keep/outpost. Being revealed causes the effect to immediately end.

.

I shared this in my guilds discord , this is truely gold xD The imagination of someone of us just being picked out of the group and being walked away is to funny lmao

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Ult 2: Garrote
cost: 400

While crouched, undetected, and behind your target stun an enemy player and yourself for 6 seconds. All active effects are removed from enemy player. The target's allies can activate the set free synergy while standing within 1ft of the trapped player, cleansing the effect. The target can break free early, but doing so costs 25% max magicka/stamina per second remaining and reduces stam/mag regen by 25% per second remaining . Death of either player ends the effect early. While slotted health is capped at 20k and armor is capped at 10k.

Morph 1: Take hostage

Player takes 30% less damage while holding an enemy player and shares damage received with the target. Targets allies can no longer break the target free.

Morph 2: Hide the body

Player can move at stealth speed while holding an enemy player. Both you and the target become invisible(to the users enemies)for the duration. If the target dies while under this effect they leave behind no body to resurrect and must respawn at a keep/outpost. Being revealed causes the effect to immediately end.

.

I shared this in my guilds discord , this is truely gold xD The imagination of someone of us just being picked out of the group and being walked away is to funny lmao

Thanks lol. Since your actually in a ball group can you share some more in depth thought? People are saying ball groups would be the ones to primarily benefit from ults such as these. I think the downside of reduced defense for slotting them would deter most groups, but what is your thoughts?

NordSwordnBoard

So the ball group lets them die and gets them back via necro rez. It happens already, a frozen gate can isolate, mage's rune and knock backs can desynch long enough to have a similar effect. If you look at ball composition, you will understand the changed cross healing/stacking argument is the best one to address the issue of how tough they are.

Mechanics sets like VD, DC, PB have already demonstrated they are not solutions. Time stop had to be increased in cost because it was oppressive. A well placed time stop worked wonders for a single player effecting a ball or zerg, but they can use it too.

I also think the conditional calculations (remember AoE caps?) wlll make the server go into coniptions. If a ball approaches me when solo, I can get lag just from that. Now what if they black out my screen while that lag happens? Yikes

Lebkuchen

Ballgroups and organized groups are part of the game. Nobody has to "solve the ballgroup problem". Do you hear how that sounds? I mean, come on...

They can easily be killed or chased away by a few good players. New ballgroups can be broken by one single bomber following them for a while, and you will never see that group again. Your ideas are great and funny, and i wish we could see something like that in the future. But why would you want to "solve the ballgroup problem"? They are just playing and having fun. And they serve a purpose. They brake and punish zergs. Good groups inspire other players to get better and can teach them a lot about the game. We need more players helping each other or PvP will be empty soon. It already is pretty empty. And i am convinced that experienced groups and guilds can help with that. I get why new players tend to leave and never come back. Cyrodiil can be overwhelming when you go there on your own, without knowing how it works. Groups can help you with that, and they should. By the way, it is way more fun to play in coordinated groups than most players think, and we should not get rid of them, but support them. And they make Cyrodiil way more interesting. There are a lot of different playstyles getting a lot of hate. But just like gankers, snipers, bombers, tanks, small scale, zergs and all the other ways to play, ballgroups should be allowed to exist and have fun too. That's the whole point of Cyrodiil. You can have fun with everything if you want to. Even if you just heal the NPCs so the Tank-Zerg can not take your keeps...

Long story short, i do not think ballgroups are a problem we need to fix. We have enough tools to deal with them. I think Cyrodiil (and all of PvP) not getting the attention it deserves is a way bigger problem. It has so much potential, even in it's current broken and forgotten state it is a great game. I just hope they can fix the performance issues soon. And then maybe give us some new content. I would love a PvP DLC.

Dem_kitkats1

Lebkuchen wrote: »

Long story short, i do not think ballgroups are a problem we need to fix. We have enough tools to deal with them. I think Cyrodiil (and all of PvP) not getting the attention it deserves is a way bigger problem. It has so much potential, even in it's current broken and forgotten state it is a great game. I just hope they can fix the performance issues soon. And then maybe give us some new content. I would love a PvP DLC.

Ballgroups are a problem in that they have too much power in controlling the map and fights uncontested. It would be one thing if they actually capped keeps and resources, and then moved on to the next, or specifically countered other ballgroups, but they don't. There's too much to be gained in seeking out weaker groups, and holding structures hostage. Ballgroups have this power because there are NO tools to counter them. They basically out heal/mitigate all incoming damage, while instantaneously group wiping all others in their path. And they have ALL the tools to prevent others from countering them. From the infinite healing stacking that naturally benefits them the most, to forcing players to spread out around them; ensuring that others cannot CC and stack damage on them in return. Because of that, fights against ballgroups boil down to a decision of whether or not to just let them run rampant and sacrifice the structure, or spend an eternity fending them off knowing you're feeding their AP machine. At this point the only way to pressure ballgroups is to form a ballgroup, or dedicate an entire faction to fight one group.

Engaging PvP combat is the rock, paper, scissors idea in that players have a variety of tools and playstyles are viable to counter one another. Limiting the number of viable playstyles and allowing certain ones to be godlike is what's detrimental to a healthy community, especially in a game that promises an abundance of choice.

Lebkuchen

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

[...] because there are NO tools to counter them. [...]

I disagree, but there are countless other discussions about this. Let's not get carried away, and try to stay on topic here. Sorry if i started it with my way too long post from before...

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

Lebkuchen wrote: »

Ballgroups and organized groups are part of the game. Nobody has to "solve the ballgroup problem". Do you hear how that sounds? I mean, come on...

They can easily be killed or chased away by a few good players. New ballgroups can be broken by one single bomber following them for a while, and you will never see that group again. Your ideas are great and funny, and i wish we could see something like that in the future. But why would you want to "solve the ballgroup problem"? They are just playing and having fun. And they serve a purpose. They brake and punish zergs. Good groups inspire other players to get better and can teach them a lot about the game. We need more players helping each other or PvP will be empty soon. It already is pretty empty. And i am convinced that experienced groups and guilds can help with that. I get why new players tend to leave and never come back. Cyrodiil can be overwhelming when you go there on your own, without knowing how it works. Groups can help you with that, and they should. By the way, it is way more fun to play in coordinated groups than most players think, and we should not get rid of them, but support them. And they make Cyrodiil way more interesting. There are a lot of different playstyles getting a lot of hate. But just like gankers, snipers, bombers, tanks, small scale, zergs and all the other ways to play, ballgroups should be allowed to exist and have fun too. That's the whole point of Cyrodiil. You can have fun with everything if you want to. Even if you just heal the NPCs so the Tank-Zerg can not take your keeps...

Long story short, i do not think ballgroups are a problem we need to fix. We have enough tools to deal with them. I think Cyrodiil (and all of PvP) not getting the attention it deserves is a way bigger problem. It has so much potential, even in it's current broken and forgotten state it is a great game. I just hope they can fix the performance issues soon. And then maybe give us some new content. I would love a PvP DLC.

I want to solve the problem for a couple reasons. Biggest one is the huge impact they have on performance. Second one is the huge impact they have on player enjoyment. Due to the performance dropping and the inability to evict them, pvp gets very tiresome and irritating for however long they decide to stay logged in. I don't want to get rid of them or ruin their fun. I just want to give tools to players that won't boost the power level of ball groups, but will work to bring them down.

Bombing can once in a blue moon work, but its impact on this game has been horrendous. Negate works pretty good and I have seen it wipe balls many times, so we need more tools like negate.