No chance matches, it NEEDS to change

Lunatearz

These matches where you have no chance to get cards to play with, from the start are ruining the game. It's like chasing your own tail. I have them TOO much. when you have 8 out of ten matches that are THAT bad, you will end up uninstalling the game. I have had 4 days of losing streak where I barely was able to get 3 wins in ranked. (playing 8 hours at least per day !!!)That is INSANE looking at how LUCKY my enemy gets 9 out of 10 times. I just finished another match with NO CHANCE of winning from the first card. What's the go with that? People complain about others leaving matches and getting no penalty. So you all say I should sit there KNOW from the start I have no chance and sit that game out solely for the gain of the other person where I am in fact nothing else but a punching bag OR lose 10 min before I can queue so to speak? How is that fair? if that's sometimes coincident that's one thing but this isn't a coincidence anymore. My bad streak started when I got all the upgraded cards. the SORC king is honestly a patron that ruins the game. a slot game on your cellphone gives you more fun tbh perhaps that's what the patron should be made as a gamble. where you either win 1, 2, 3, or 4 power points and you pay 2 to use the patron. Please balance the game devs.

Tesman85

It's quite impossible to have no chance to win after the first round, since there are multiple strategies available and every one can be countered at least to some degree. Even after two unlucky rounds the game is still very winnable. Could you give some example of a situation where the opponent is sure to win after the first two rounds? Because I can't think of any. But if you feel like it, then it's most probable that you are too hung up on having certain cards. Always think ahead what to do instead, if the opponent happens to get some powerful cards you wanted. If you are feeling "unlucky" 8 or 9 times out of ten (as you say), then it's not just about luck anymore

With Orgnum I concur partly with you. It definitely is the least fun of the decks to play against. But even it can be countered by e.g. choosing Crow and Hlaalu cards and pulling enough coin to get a big haul of power by converting the coin. Or you can sell your Hlaalu big buck cards for power in the end game phase. Or you just get on with spamming the Orgnum patron. Or - well, you get the idea. I once won against an Orgnum spammer with the most powerful Pelin cards, because he started to use his gold too early for the patron.

AnduinTryggva

The thing is, there are only very few strategies that are successful and most players learn to know them very quickly.

What this game misses is an alternative win objective apart from achieving 40/80 prestige points.

This could be like: Achieve XXXX gold until round Y or whatever.

Skvysh

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

The thing is, there are only very few strategies that are successful and most players learn to know them very quickly.

What this game misses is an alternative win objective apart from achieving 40/80 prestige points.

This could be like: Achieve XXXX gold until round Y or whatever.

There already is an alternative win condition - gaining favour of all 4 patrons.

Fiddling around to add more win conditions will make the game even more confusing (apparently, the concept of deck builders is already difficult to comprehend for some people, not to mention area control mechanic of patrons).

Besides, the core parts (i.e. existing cards, synergies and patrons) should be more balanced before proceeding further with any other alterations to the game.

CuriousChrisK

I believe the RNG of cards needs to be changed somewhat. I've literally went 18+ games where I've only won 2 or 3 times and then had a winning streak of 15 games out of 18. It's crazy how it can swing round with this RNG.

MJ202

"Improvise, adapt and overcome."
--- Gunnery Sergeant Tom Highway --

Lunatearz

Skvysh wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

The thing is, there are only very few strategies that are successful and most players learn to know them very quickly.

What this game misses is an alternative win objective apart from achieving 40/80 prestige points.

This could be like: Achieve XXXX gold until round Y or whatever.

There already is an alternative win condition - gaining favour of all 4 patrons.

Fiddling around to add more win conditions will make the game even more confusing (apparently, the concept of deck builders is already difficult to comprehend for some people, not to mention area control mechanic of patrons).

Besides, the core parts (i.e. existing cards, synergies and patrons) should be more balanced before proceeding further with any other alterations to the game.

You still need enough power or coins for that and if the enemy dont put up an agent and the psijic patrons up then you are out of chances. with your enemy having more coins and power then you already MOST times its the one at the short end of the stick having to give up chances to buy a card to save from losing a patron battle..

I aggree with you that Another option to win is not somethign we should seek for. The cards need more ballanced but its the RNG thats waaaaaaaay out of shape tbh. losing 8 out of ten matches with 40+ to -10 is insane and really HARD to actually achieve if it would have been balanced rng and cards though it has been facts for me.

Ranked is a joke right now TBH.

Lunatearz

MJ202 wrote: »

"Improvise, adapt and overcome."
--- Gunnery Sergeant Tom Highway --

you telling us this or the devs ? LOL you got to play the hand you are given friend...

Lunatearz

Tesman85 wrote: »

It's quite impossible to have no chance to win after the first round, since there are multiple strategies available and every one can be countered at least to some degree. Even after two unlucky rounds the game is still very winnable. Could you give some example of a situation where the opponent is sure to win after the first two rounds? Because I can't think of any. But if you feel like it, then it's most probable that you are too hung up on having certain cards. Always think ahead what to do instead, if the opponent happens to get some powerful cards you wanted. If you are feeling "unlucky" 8 or 9 times out of ten (as you say), then it's not just about luck anymore

With Orgnum I concur partly with you. It definitely is the least fun of the decks to play against. But even it can be countered by e.g. choosing Crow and Hlaalu cards and pulling enough coin to get a big haul of power by converting the coin. Or you can sell your Hlaalu big buck cards for power in the end game phase. Or you just get on with spamming the Orgnum patron. Or - well, you get the idea. I once won against an Orgnum spammer with the most powerful Pelin cards, because he started to use his gold too early for the patron.

DONT YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO BUY DECENT CARDS FOR THESE STRATEGIES!!?? MAYBE this is why people turn to play the sorc king...... MAYBE this is why people just leave mid match.. MAYBE this is just silly to make ranked when its soleley luck and rng based.

Tesman85

Lunatearz wrote: »

Tesman85 wrote: »

It's quite impossible to have no chance to win after the first round, since there are multiple strategies available and every one can be countered at least to some degree. Even after two unlucky rounds the game is still very winnable. Could you give some example of a situation where the opponent is sure to win after the first two rounds? Because I can't think of any. But if you feel like it, then it's most probable that you are too hung up on having certain cards. Always think ahead what to do instead, if the opponent happens to get some powerful cards you wanted. If you are feeling "unlucky" 8 or 9 times out of ten (as you say), then it's not just about luck anymore

With Orgnum I concur partly with you. It definitely is the least fun of the decks to play against. But even it can be countered by e.g. choosing Crow and Hlaalu cards and pulling enough coin to get a big haul of power by converting the coin. Or you can sell your Hlaalu big buck cards for power in the end game phase. Or you just get on with spamming the Orgnum patron. Or - well, you get the idea. I once won against an Orgnum spammer with the most powerful Pelin cards, because he started to use his gold too early for the patron.

DONT YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO BUY DECENT CARDS FOR THESE STRATEGIES!!?? MAYBE this is why people turn to play the sorc king...... MAYBE this is why people just leave mid match.. MAYBE this is just silly to make ranked when its soleley luck and rng based.

Of course you need to buy the decent cards. I won't insult your intelligence by describing how to accomplish it. But the point is, that if the Orgnum spammer uses up his/her coin for the patron every turn, he can't get anything really good from the tavern. Especially if he doesn't have the patience to convert coin cards into writs of coin, he can paint himself into a corner where he has mostly just 2-prestige cards and 1-coin cards, which isn't really a winning combination. Compare that to someone who buys e.g. Hlaalu "get card free"-cards and in the next phase gets an array of Pelin strong prestige cards like Rally. Or to someone who buys a combination of crow extra draw and prestige-giving cards. Or, even the "regular" Orgnum cards which are quite good prestige-wise. Those cards are there for the taking, since the spammer is using up much of his coin on the patron. Orgnum is entirely winnable, one just has to think more how to get over the finish line sooner than the opponent.

As for RNG, no card game is entirely free from it. You have to use what chance gives to you, but to say that ToT is "entirely luck-based" is a ridiculous exaggeration.

spartaxoxo

The same 2 people have taken the one and two spot on the leaderboards for multiple seasons on multiple servers. I don't know you see the same names on the leaderboards time after time and think it's only RNG. Some of it is RNG, but some of it also knowing how to play.

Lunatearz

Tesman85 wrote: »

Lunatearz wrote: »

Tesman85 wrote: »

It's quite impossible to have no chance to win after the first round, since there are multiple strategies available and every one can be countered at least to some degree. Even after two unlucky rounds the game is still very winnable. Could you give some example of a situation where the opponent is sure to win after the first two rounds? Because I can't think of any. But if you feel like it, then it's most probable that you are too hung up on having certain cards. Always think ahead what to do instead, if the opponent happens to get some powerful cards you wanted. If you are feeling "unlucky" 8 or 9 times out of ten (as you say), then it's not just about luck anymore

With Orgnum I concur partly with you. It definitely is the least fun of the decks to play against. But even it can be countered by e.g. choosing Crow and Hlaalu cards and pulling enough coin to get a big haul of power by converting the coin. Or you can sell your Hlaalu big buck cards for power in the end game phase. Or you just get on with spamming the Orgnum patron. Or - well, you get the idea. I once won against an Orgnum spammer with the most powerful Pelin cards, because he started to use his gold too early for the patron.

DONT YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO BUY DECENT CARDS FOR THESE STRATEGIES!!?? MAYBE this is why people turn to play the sorc king...... MAYBE this is why people just leave mid match.. MAYBE this is just silly to make ranked when its soleley luck and rng based.

Of course you need to buy the decent cards. I won't insult your intelligence by describing how to accomplish it. But the point is, that if the Orgnum spammer uses up his/her coin for the patron every turn, he can't get anything really good from the tavern. Especially if he doesn't have the patience to convert coin cards into writs of coin, he can paint himself into a corner where he has mostly just 2-prestige cards and 1-coin cards, which isn't really a winning combination. Compare that to someone who buys e.g. Hlaalu "get card free"-cards and in the next phase gets an array of Pelin strong prestige cards like Rally. Or to someone who buys a combination of crow extra draw and prestige-giving cards. Or, even the "regular" Orgnum cards which are quite good prestige-wise. Those cards are there for the taking, since the spammer is using up much of his coin on the patron. Orgnum is entirely winnable, one just has to think more how to get over the finish line sooner than the opponent.

As for RNG, no card game is entirely free from it. You have to use what chance gives to you, but to say that ToT is "entirely luck-based" is a ridiculous exaggeration.

Im terrible sorry but you already are insulting my intelligence with your reply like this. Im not a bad player. i understand the game. but if you CAN NOT BUY THE CARDS YOU NEED because they are NOT ON THE TAVERN FOR YOU TO BUY then you CAN NOT buy them and if in your hand your cards mix so that you do not get over 4 or 5 coin points and do NOT GET COMBOS you are screwed. IDC how great your theory sounds but sir you have not been getting my hands obviously lol.

im not even just talking about the orgnum spammer. when its my first turn and there are only 6 point cards on the table and i manage to get 5 i exchange my card for a 2 coin.. my opponoment who has one extra point manages to get the card they want.. second round i still dont get 6 coins. my opponoment neither we both exchange.. oh wait the card he managed to buy gives him EXTRA coins and he was lucky enough that its a purple that also gives him an extra card because they get the combo... each hand i get more and more behind when you can't buy the cards you need. And when you buy a card you DONT really need but its all you can then you clutter up your hand. OR open up another good card in the tavern for the other person.

MY opponoments arent bad players either they will not leave a card in the tavern that can help me if they can do something about it.

you could just believe me when i tell you my RNG i have been getting is terrible.

Lunatearz

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The same 2 people have taken the one and two spots on the leaderboards for multiple seasons on multiple servers. I don't know if you see the same names on the leaderboards time after time and think it's only RNG. Some of it is RNG, but some of it also knowing how to play.

without the cards you need, it doesn't matter how good a player you are, sir... you got to play the cards you get. that's how simple math it is. I have been in the top as well again I'm not a bad player. and i have played against the top 1 and 2 and won. IM NOT A BAD PLAYER lol.

I'm just sharing my experience with the RNG that's getting to me.

AnduinTryggva

The issue with ToT is that it extremely snowbally. You manage to grab two or three good cards early on and your opponent not your win chances increase considerably.

There are of course possibilities that you can turn a game to your advantage in mid-game phase but only if you manage to grab several really good cards then AND your opponent makes one or two mistakes or does not have a good strategy (which is rare in rubedit league).

I really think this game needs serious tweaks in order to not determine the match outcome during the first five rounds. Otherwise you could just make a coin toss game out of it.

Lunatearz

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

The issue with ToT is that it extremely snowbally. You manage to grab two or three good cards early on and your opponent not your win chances increase considerably.

There are of course possibilities that you can turn a game to your advantage in mid-game phase but only if you manage to grab several really good cards then AND your opponent makes one or two mistakes or does not have a good strategy (which is rare in rubedit league).

I really think this game needs serious tweaks in order to not determine the match outcome during the first five rounds. Otherwise you could just make a coin toss game out of it.

HEAR HEAR!!! aAd that is ONLY and solely because of luck. A good RNG can change this.

I just LEFT a match because for the second match in a row I was not able to buy cards in the first 5 hands and my opponent managed to get the first card with extra coins on it so they CAN buy cards and I'm left with exchanging cards the first 5 hands and 20 points behind that's a no chance match. they were already able to exchange and get rid of useless coin cards and BUY good cards that leave me far behind in the dust. if you CANT buy cards even when you have an extra coin when there is only one card on the tavern with 4 points and the rest are 6 and higher you are screwed if your enemy has the first turn and buys that 4 or 5 coin card. The next hands your PowerPoint cards keep mixing badly with your coin cards so you still can't buy any of them cards.