HA META

karekiz

No ZOS. We told you in Greymoore we don't want HA. Were telling you now we don't want HA. Nobody wants HA. Stop making it a thing, its not a thing. I can DEFINITELY see where the 20 second dot timer came from. With all those extended DOTS these changes make full sense. More heavy attacks!

Its been awhile but they basically are just pushing the old Greymoore LA/HA testing in regardless of what people think. Can't stop ya if its only a week test!

JustAGoodPlayer

Ha is not META - LA still can do 15-20% more DPS. they are to effraid now to put their parses ))) How good it is to live with out weavers.
Even HA players do not need HA be META - because all this weawers just come heavy attacking to us.
So if we just have 5-10% less damage than top META builds - we are even more good with it.

Better all LA weawers dishonor their own LA community beyond. They are META - optimized and ETC, "more skilled".

HA and all other players just need normal DPS in a way they like to play. With out La, or with HA, or with LA spam and etc.

To make possible pass content with people you like in builds you like.

I am not interested in playing with weawers. I already listen about their DPS for last 6 years. I start to play as tank by the way.

They play that bad and speak to much about DPS that i think = every one can do it better. So now i am DD to But i am HA dd.

I do not know do they have other normal topics to speak about ? I do not know - may be elfs ? I already tired to hear about their DPS all the time. They are META - Optimized - Weawers and etc.

OK - do not care. Just want to play with normal people !

So nope - Ha is not META - we do not need to be META - play with your weawers yourself now ))) We do not need them )

Rimskjegg

karekiz wrote: »

No ZOS. We told you in Greymoore we don't want HA. Were telling you now we don't want HA. Nobody wants HA. Stop making it a thing, its not a thing. I can DEFINITELY see where the 20 second dot timer came from. With all those extended DOTS these changes make full sense. More heavy attacks!

Its been awhile but they basically are just pushing the old Greymoore LA/HA testing in regardless of what people think. Can't stop ya if its only a week test!

The Combat Preview was loud and clear: "Heavy attack builds, we've heard you and we want better for you".

JustAGoodPlayer

Rimskjegg wrote: »

karekiz wrote: »

No ZOS. We told you in Greymoore we don't want HA. Were telling you now we don't want HA. Nobody wants HA. Stop making it a thing, its not a thing. I can DEFINITELY see where the 20 second dot timer came from. With all those extended DOTS these changes make full sense. More heavy attacks!

Its been awhile but they basically are just pushing the old Greymoore LA/HA testing in regardless of what people think. Can't stop ya if its only a week test!

The Combat Preview was loud and clear: "Heavy attack builds, we've heard you and we want better for you".

At least make like it was a patch ago, or on live now - give a little buff to SPD / WPD after HA for 3 seconds (400-500 wpd-spd will be good). Revert all changes and buff other builds who can not do 100-110k DPS. With outt buffing top DPS builds.

It is the best they can do.

And revert current patch - just delete it god - i do not even want to see it on pts so bad it is.

Than it will be some love.

And do not breake our skills / sets - do not nerf not top builds !!! It is best they can do if they really want to show love.

We have bugs for years that is not fixed - fixe it first ! Some skills do not work on live now !!! Some even dors are broken.

The best love - at least fix content that is broken ! we do not parse dummy all day - so such thingth for a lot of players are more important.

Return our unique skills, including wings - or rework some not usefull skills to make it better ! Not breaking it !

That is better for us.

Nerfs and becoming only PVE builds = not any better. HA players play all type of content. We are medium tear builds - we are not optimized - and we do not care much. We just play sets we like everywhere. Stop nerfing us !

boi_anachronism_

Won't be either. Medium attack weaving nets about 8-10k more on a sloppy rotation then light and it is a royal pain to use based on current server testing.

boi_anachronism_

What we didn't want was HA nerfed I to oblivion for the sake of newer/casual/uncompetitive players. We did not say make MA meta lol

MakeMeUhSamich

What exactly is a Medium Attack?

casparian

MakeMeUhSamich wrote: »

What exactly is a Medium Attack?

I predict this will be the dominant question on the forums in about three weeks.

kringled_1

A medium attack is when you release a heavy attack before its fully charged.

JustAGoodPlayer

All weavers will go medium attack now ? )))

LA players already do not know how to shake off their own weawers some where ? ))

Why do you think it will be better by the way ? )

Some real info or just to make weawers go away some where ? ))

katorga

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

What we didn't want was HA nerfed I to oblivion for the sake of newer/casual/uncompetitive players. We did not say make MA meta lol

Didn't the new/casual/uncompetitive players NEED heavy attack builds? Nerfing it was a hammer blow to them.

ZOS is trying to split the difference and nerf (then partially un-nerf) LA, while keeping HA roughly where it was for PVE pre-8.1.0 fiasco. What a mess.

JustAGoodPlayer

By the way 2 first ticks of HA is not possible to dodge the same in PVP ? So HA builds in PVP can really become medium attack builds and be just the same )))

But I am lazy enough to just or spam HA or spam some spammable. I have other thingth to do than medium attacking )))

Interesting - will it really be some one who do this ... not really interesting gameplay to do ... - just to get some more DPS ) ???

Tar000un

Casting mage guild skill will give you empower and buff HA for 80%.
Afaik, HA nerf + empower buff = more dmg.

JustAGoodPlayer

Tar000un wrote: »

Casting mage guild skill will give you empower and buff HA for 80%.
Afaik, HA nerf + empower buff = more dmg.

DK had moltan armaments = 50% HA damage + empower 40% damage.

So current version is 10% less in solo content the same time DK can get empower from storage sources - so 90%DPS->80% only PVE DPS - looks as bad change.

But it is good that other classes can get the same DPS options - but with better passives now they overperform DK.

So just as example for DK it is the same lose of damage - and for PVP HA DK it is big lose of damage )

So i do not really see more damage. I see lose of damage )

But NB / templars and not DK HA players get some good point from it for PVE.

The other problem that it is to much sources of empower now - so they are just useless )))

So even if some HA get buffs now we + to all this get a lot of useless sets ))

If you have to many sources of empower now - what are all this sets for ? )))

More logickally would make empower PVE only buff and just add to classes HA buff that is possible to use everywhere than. And balance numbers on such buffs different for classes based on passives of that classes. So all HA players just get same DPS.
If for 6 years moltan armament was not a problem - values can be based on it.

So ... i just look on all this like this:

MudcrabAttack

MA weaves are kinda high, 30k damage if you hold the mouse button just a tiny fraction of a second longer. LA weaving is the new Mid tier thing, people always wanted a mid tier thing, right?

MidniteOwl1913

I am an average player. I'm disabled and old. I use HA a lot. Not everyone is unhappy with a better HA.

xaraan

It will probably end up being a medium weave meta, which has an even bigger skill gap between the top guys and everyone else lol.

But yea, under that will be the boring heavy attack rotation.

jaws343

Eh, Heavy attacks won't really be meta though. Light attack, or even medium attack, will still be meta.

What heavy attacks will be though, with Oakensoul, are viable options for decent DPS. Decent, not meta.

I don't put builds together to be accessible, personally. I do them to be comfortably optimized for soloing vet dungeons and world bosses, as well as doing 4 man PUG vet content, which means a lot of self reliance and very little group optimization.

So, back a bit ago, heavy attack builds worked really well for that. You could forgo sustain and stack damage, and using something like Pale Order, get a ton of healing. But they nerfed heavies a bit and that became less of an option. All through that time though, running a build while using a normal spammable provided way more damage.

With the current PTS changes to Oakensoul, I will most likely be swapping back over to a heavy attack build, using Oaken, for soloing content. The damage heavies will provide in this situation will out perform my current solo build. But still, for trials content, I will still be using a more optimized two bar rotation that uses as few heavies as possible.

So no, not a heavy attack meta. But definitely useful for content with the changes.

Tar000un

xaraan wrote: »

It will probably end up being a medium weave meta, which has an even bigger skill gap between the top guys and everyone else lol.

I had same though but getting use to MA is not as easy as LA to weave. I m used to combat metronome and having the medium ready is more animation based. Did a quick check on 3M and I didnt see a big diff. But I was solo buff. In trial with a support, it could be better.

MaraxusTheOrc

I would like HA. Thank you.

xaraan

Tar000un wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

It will probably end up being a medium weave meta, which has an even bigger skill gap between the top guys and everyone else lol.

I had same though but getting use to MA is not as easy as LA to weave. I m used to combat metronome and having the medium ready is more animation based. Did a quick check on 3M and I didnt see a big diff. But I was solo buff. In trial with a support, it could be better.

Yea. That's what I meant by bigger skill gap. Medium Weave is harder to get right, so it will just end up making the skill gap bigger. I'm not a big fan of MA myself, it's ok on some weapons for me, not so much on others.

merpins

HA builds are a fine and accessible form of DPS. They aren't meta, nor are they overpowered even in the current PTS. I'd say lightning staves got hit a bit too hard with the nerf, and resto staves got overlooked and are now super strong. When it comes to HA I mean.

I don't mind them, they're fine, and usually when a newer player is doing a HA build in pugs, they do fine enough dps to where they actually contribute. People DO want HA builds to be a thing. Should they get an 80% buff?

... I mean it doesn't hurt. On live, DK gets a 90% buff due to empower and Molten Weapons, so making it 80% for everyone rather than 90% only for DK seems reasonable imo. People are doing 90k dps with empower on the PTS. Is that meta? Not at all. Are they doing it with Oakensoul? No, Empower is broken on oakensoul so no one can even test it right now.

Tannus15

it's pretty funny though



resto staff is better than lightning staff on HA builds.
i just ... i can't even

merpins

Tannus15 wrote: »

it's pretty funny though



resto staff is better than lightning staff on HA builds.
i just ... i can't even

It is pretty funny haha. They nerfed Lightning Staves pretty hard.

danno8

merpins wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

it's pretty funny though



resto staff is better than lightning staff on HA builds.
i just ... i can't even

It is pretty funny haha. They nerfed Lightning Staves pretty hard.

It's like 2014 on steroids.

Sluggy

Rimskjegg wrote: »

karekiz wrote: »

No ZOS. We told you in Greymoore we don't want HA. Were telling you now we don't want HA. Nobody wants HA. Stop making it a thing, its not a thing. I can DEFINITELY see where the 20 second dot timer came from. With all those extended DOTS these changes make full sense. More heavy attacks!

Its been awhile but they basically are just pushing the old Greymoore LA/HA testing in regardless of what people think. Can't stop ya if its only a week test!

The Combat Preview was loud and clear: "Heavy attack builds, we've heard you and we want better for you".

lol Bonus points for doing this during MyM so that many people would be preoccupied with the event.

DormantOne

I love HA. I want HA. Charging a slow strong attack is more fun for me than quick light attacks.

remosito

Tannus15 wrote: »

resto staff is better than lightning staff on HA builds.

By how much?

francesinhalover

Heavy attacks help players with difficulties weaving, its less so much less tiring to use, its amazing for players with disabilities also.
The heavy attack buffs are a great idea.
And the best thing about the update.

terrasight

francesinhalover wrote: »

Heavy attacks help players with difficulties weaving, its less so much less tiring to use, its amazing for players with disabilities also.
The heavy attack buffs are a great idea.
And the best thing about the update.

Only if it's a full charched HA. MA weaving would be harder then LA weaving for casual players.
The skill gap will me much bigger...

Lalothen

remosito wrote: »

By how much?

By maybe 5%, give or take.

Resto damage just needs tweaking downwards and the heal-related coefficient tweaked upwards to compensate.

To be honest though I wouldn't much care if it stayed where it is, since I'd finally have an option to switch to for purely ST fights rather than toting the lightning staff 100% of the time.