*Cries in happy stam warden tears*

Arjuna1696

I'm very happy that sub assault got reverted, and that cutting dive will have an extra DOT component. Honestly I'm also jazzed that my mag warden can just cast deep fissure once every 10 seconds rather than every three abilities, and rather than using the stam morph. What do y'all think about these warden reverts / changes?

Skjaldbjorn

Arjuna1696 wrote: »

I'm very happy that sub assault got reverted, and that cutting dive will have an extra DOT component. Honestly I'm also jazzed that my mag warden can just cast deep fissure once every 10 seconds rather than every three abilities, and rather than using the stam morph. What do y'all think about these warden reverts / changes?

Still god awful because we lost ~6-8% flat damage in favor of pen. It's absolute cheeks. When they reverted AS by 1%, it put Warden in the basement. Nobody should be excited as a Warden player right now. That passive was the most crippling change they made, and they seem dead set on keeping it the way it is.

Arjuna1696

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

Still god awful because we lost ~6-8% flat damage in favor of pen. It's absolute cheeks. When they reverted AS by 1%, it put Warden in the basement. Nobody should be excited as a Warden player right now. That passive was the most crippling change they made, and they seem dead set on keeping it the way it is.

Oh, TOTALLY AGREE, and I hope they address this next week. I'm just glad two abilities I like aren't getting messed with so dramatically.

prof_doom

It's better than it was, but still not in what I'd call an acceptable place.

ebix_

if their "we gonna show some love to magden" was just reverting some nerfs then god helps magblade and best of luck for you magsorc mains.
probably gonna reduce streak's cost from 3780 to 3700 and call it a day.

dinokstrunz

Subopitimal Assault.

Aldoss

I'm really disappointed by these "changes" as a magden main. I'll wait to write my full reaction until I can actually get on the pts to duel, but unless that 9sec fissure burst is going to crit for 12k or more, this is extremely infuriating.

9 seconds is 33% longer build up than Purifying Light.
9 seconds is 45% longer build up than Assassin's Will.
9 seconds is 66% longer build up than Molten Whip.

I don't even know what to say to these Dev comments anymore... "burst oriented nature"? I'm being slapped this patch by all 3 of those other class abilities for 15k+. My shalks barely does 8-9k with Major Force.

9 seconds is a long time to wait, plan, and account for. What an absolute let down. It better rip shreds in opponents...

SeaUnicorn

Aldoss wrote: »

I'm really disappointed by these "changes" as a magden main. I'll wait to write my full reaction until I can actually get on the pts to duel, but unless that 9sec fissure burst is going to crit for 12k or more, this is extremely infuriating.

9 seconds is 33% longer build up than Purifying Light.
9 seconds is 45% longer build up than Assassin's Will.
9 seconds is 66% longer build up than Molten Whip.

I don't even know what to say to these Dev comments anymore... "burst oriented nature"? I'm being slapped this patch by all 3 of those other class abilities for 15k+. My shalks barely does 8-9k with Major Force.

9 seconds is a long time to wait, plan, and account for. What an absolute let down. It better rip shreds in opponents...

Also it is designed kind of like DK deep breath, only deep breath has immediate heal and damage + follow-up damage, where as shalks have sizeable delay. Kinda weird.
Inb4 Deep Breath gets nerfed instead of Shalks being adjusted

YandereGirlfriend

Scorch got dunked into the sun if you play Warden in PvP.

So no, not happy about the changes.

Mr_Stach

As far as Testing is considered the 8% Damage was not removed and received and Additional 14% nerf. That's not good.

Timing is better sure but that is a massive nerf

Lughlongarm

Mr_Stach wrote: »

As far as Testing is considered the 8% Damage was not removed and received and Additional 14% nerf. That's not good.

Timing is better sure but that is a massive nerf

The stranger thing is that as far my testing goes, the stamina morph also got the damage nerf but for both pulses(the first and the second). So now the stamina morph is worst in every possible way(it is cheaper...^^)

Mr_Stach

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

As far as Testing is considered the 8% Damage was not removed and received and Additional 14% nerf. That's not good.

Timing is better sure but that is a massive nerf

The stranger thing is that as far my testing goes, the stamina morph also got the damage nerf but for both pulses(the first and the second). So now the stamina morph is worst in every possible way(it is cheaper...^^)

Second pulse does not get 20% damage buff on Sub Assault, says so in the notes, it's intended.

Lughlongarm

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

As far as Testing is considered the 8% Damage was not removed and received and Additional 14% nerf. That's not good.

Timing is better sure but that is a massive nerf

The stranger thing is that as far my testing goes, the stamina morph also got the damage nerf but for both pulses(the first and the second). So now the stamina morph is worst in every possible way(it is cheaper...^^)

Second pulse does not get 20% damage buff on Sub Assault, says so in the notes, it's intended.

Ya, but was it intended for Sub Assault to get the 14% additional damage nerf? Why? What is purpose of the Stamina morph now?

Mr_Stach

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

As far as Testing is considered the 8% Damage was not removed and received and Additional 14% nerf. That's not good.

Timing is better sure but that is a massive nerf

The stranger thing is that as far my testing goes, the stamina morph also got the damage nerf but for both pulses(the first and the second). So now the stamina morph is worst in every possible way(it is cheaper...^^)

Second pulse does not get 20% damage buff on Sub Assault, says so in the notes, it's intended.

Ya, but was it intended for Sub Assault to get the 14% additional damage nerf? Why? What is purpose of the Stamina morph now?

Faster I guess? Sub goes on 3/6 Interval. Fissure goes on 3/9 Interval with increased damage on 9 to compensate I guess. But I dunno.

I would prefer if both were 3/6, didn't have the 21% damage nerf and maybe hook up Sub with Bleed damage, Off-Balance on first Hit and Second hit is a Guaranteed Hemo Proc on Off-Balanced Enemies.

Caribou77

Nerfs to scorch demonstrate the dev team is looking at skills on a spreadsheet, not comparing class viability/balance in PVP.

Raw damage may have been higher than some alternate burst skills, but THE 3 SECOND DELAY AND SKILL REQUIRED TO LAND SCORCH ON A GOOD OPPONENT MAKE UP FOR THIS. Sorc can cast haunting curse and forget about it. Magden has to do the Scorch Dance against an opponent for 3 seconds while casting/blocking/rolling or whatever to stay alive. SCORCH OFTEN MISSES AGAINST GOOD PLAYERS, EVEN IF YOU ARE ADEPT AT USING IT.

This is why looking at a single skill on a spreadsheet and trying to homogenize it with burst skills in other classes is myopic and inaccurate.

PLEASE REVERT DEEP FISSURE TO ITS STATE BEFORE U35. Magden in no way deserves a nerf of any kind. Try to find anyone who disagrees with magden’s low-powered status in pvp.

Janni

Yeah, I'm gonna have to cast my vote to the "this is bad" party. Maybe the STAM morph of the skill is ok? But as a stamwarden I use the mag morph and the changes they've made to that one are still bad. Like the gave us the 3 seconds back. Cool. I guess? But if my damage is so low what's even the point, right?


I guess I could just go back to my old bleed build. Good ol' reliable dots. Especially with the stacking dots of the birds :rollseyes:

Mr_Stach

Janni wrote: »

Yeah, I'm gonna have to cast my vote to the "this is bad" party. Maybe the STAM morph of the skill is ok? But as a stamwarden I use the mag morph and the changes they've made to that one are still bad. Like the gave us the 3 seconds back. Cool. I guess? But if my damage is so low what's even the point, right?


I guess I could just go back to my old bleed build. Good ol' reliable dots. Especially with the stacking dots of the birds :rollseyes:

Stam morph is just a straight 21% nerf compared to live. I really hope they don't do that.

Urzigurumash

Aldoss wrote: »

I'm really disappointed by these "changes" as a magden main. I'll wait to write my full reaction until I can actually get on the pts to duel, but unless that 9sec fissure burst is going to crit for 12k or more, this is extremely infuriating.

9 seconds is 33% longer build up than Purifying Light.
9 seconds is 45% longer build up than Assassin's Will.
9 seconds is 66% longer build up than Molten Whip.

I don't even know what to say to these Dev comments anymore... "burst oriented nature"? I'm being slapped this patch by all 3 of those other class abilities for 15k+. My shalks barely does 8-9k with Major Force.

9 seconds is a long time to wait, plan, and account for. What an absolute let down. It better rip shreds in opponents...

All of those skills are Single Target though. Perhaps the idea is that this change makes it something like combining Blastbones with Avid Boneyard, which has a much longer timer, but obviously the damage has to be much higher than on live, as you say.

Aldoss

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Aldoss wrote: »

I'm really disappointed by these "changes" as a magden main. I'll wait to write my full reaction until I can actually get on the pts to duel, but unless that 9sec fissure burst is going to crit for 12k or more, this is extremely infuriating.

9 seconds is 33% longer build up than Purifying Light.
9 seconds is 45% longer build up than Assassin's Will.
9 seconds is 66% longer build up than Molten Whip.

I don't even know what to say to these Dev comments anymore... "burst oriented nature"? I'm being slapped this patch by all 3 of those other class abilities for 15k+. My shalks barely does 8-9k with Major Force.

9 seconds is a long time to wait, plan, and account for. What an absolute let down. It better rip shreds in opponents...

All of those skills are Single Target though. Perhaps the idea is that this change makes it something like combining Blastbones with Avid Boneyard, which has a much longer timer, but obviously the damage has to be much higher than on live, as you say.

I really don't care that those skills are single target. PL can be purged, but is so easy to reapply and plars have some of the most insane pressure skills in the game. Whip finally got a nerf, but it will still hit very hard and has one of the easiest set ups in the game. Assassins will can be roll dodged, but for successfully landing, it's the most damaging delayed burst skill in the game.and can be boosted by 20%.

Deep Fissure can be mitigated 20% via major evasion right out of the gate. Then, for some unknown reason, it can be roll dodged. It has an insanely high miss rate because PvP targets seem to never want to stand in one place.

Imagine being given a tool, told that it takes 45% longer to line up than another class' skill, told that you'd have to aim it when the other classes just get to press a button, and then told that the skill will hit for less than all of those abilities...

Is this a joke?

If shalks isn't allowed to.be given the high reward for the skill it takes to.actuallt use, then we need more damage elsewhere and it better be earth shattering good... Crystal Weapon good.

I think @MashmalloMan touched on something extremely shocking... All our skills were standardized around our passives.

The devs have no.clue what to do with warden. They have no clue what they're doing with this patch. They're scrambling hard to fix this mess and somehow still making the worst decisions.

I'm saddened to watch the fun of the game being ripped away. I love this game. But these changes aren't fun.

Lalothen

Screaming Cliff Racer & Deep Fissure should still be Frost damage, and AS really needs to go back to boosting damage.

If they're hellbent on Scorch & morphs following this path, then they should at least unnerf the raw damage, or add another component to the morphs like the DK's Dark Talons & morphs.

For example, Sub Assault could immobilize & inflict diseased status to make it more PvP-centric, whilst Deep Fissure could proc a 4s Frost DoT perhaps?

pklemming

Warden changes are still hideous. Why would you be happy?

Urzigurumash

Aldoss wrote: »

I really don't care that those skills are single target.

Well it's a massive difference. Probably the reason you don't care is because Warden has 1 Direct Damage skill in PvP that you have control over (i.e. besides Crystal Slab).

MagCro has 2 and an Ult and is one of the strongest classes in PvP, but they're all AoE.

So if Deep Fissure alone could have the power of Blastbones and Graverobber, perhaps you would start to care less that you don't have a Single Target Class Direct Damage skill on par with NB, DK, or Plar.

Do Plar, NB, or DK have Delayed AoE on par with Blastbones or Graverobber in PvP? No. All of these classes have a more diverse kit for dealing damage in PvP than Necro, no doubt about it, but MagCro's remains the strongest of all, the highest "ceiling".

If the 2nd hit of Deep Fissure had enough Damage to give Warden this same level of AoE potential, then to me the 9 second timer could make sense.

Probably Deep Fissure alone is never going to solve MagDen's 1v1 issues.

Hurbster

It's the old 'take away a lot but give a little bit back' malarkey.

Arjuna1696

pklemming wrote: »

Warden changes are still hideous. Why would you be happy?

Yeah there's a lot that's still bad... I'm realizing that yesterday was just a lot of RELIEF that my favorite class isn't changing quite as massively as I thought it might. Still huge issues with the warden passive, and I still don't see why scorch should have lower damage at all. Above all, I shouldn't have even momentarily felt "happy" just because zos reverted/softened absolutely unhinged changes.

pklemming

There are so many bad changes this patch, it affected everyone. Their current solution is going to annoy a lot of people when it goes live. The people that have been following PTS are just leaving. I have a short time left until I see the final patch. If it continues, as is, then I will be leaving too.

It is nice they reverted some stuff, but there is far too many things wrong, increased by this recent patch to 'mollify' people.

It has not really hit home to people on PTS, the two options you will have for decent dps next patch. Both options are not good. They actually made stuff worse in this patch, and I didn't think they could do that.

Caribou77

I would love it if anyone on the dev team could come forward and say "I play pvp magden alot, and here's why I think these changes make sense."

As the tweaks to U35 evolve, it is becoming clearer to me that there is no one driving the bus on Magden. You just don't take the weakest PVP class and slow it down even further (deep fissure) while significantly diminishing its damage (both passives and skills).

It makes no sense. Has anyone, anywhere, said that Magden is ovepowered in PVP?

Did someone on the Dev Team really think that Deep Fissure is giving Magden an unfair or unbalanced advantage in PVP???

Seriously.

WrathOfInnos

The strange thing is that stam wardens will be using the Deep Fissure morph if this goes live. It is objectively the better morph for both burst and sustained damage, due to the 10% magic damage passive, and the penetration debuff is more beneficial to medium armor builds. Stamden will also see sustain benefits from using a magicka skill every 9s (much like magden does with Sub Assault on live). Stamden also has better spammable options to fill the extra GCDs opened up by long duration Deep Fissure.

I don't like these changes. The morphs should be more balanced, and we need the 3 second rhythm that defines warden rotations.