Why is damage so damn high?

Jeezye

Hey guys, so couple of background info: I’m a returning player from over a year ago, and I’m playing brawler magblade in pvp. Currently nocp BGs because that’s the only gamemode I can quickly jump in after work. I know I’m gimping myself playing the worst pvp spec, but in the past I was able to compensate with theorycrafting and skill.

Right now, running rally, wretched, bloodspawn and masters destro. Strong on paper.

Fact is, I’m getting absolutely nuked in BGs, even with all buffs up.

DKs whips hit for 8-9 k consistently, surprise attacks for 4-6k, there’s dead bodies thrown at me with major defile and bugs with major fracture hitting for 6k unavoidable damage.

Ofc I also do decent damage with the setup, but usually I’m dying before I can setup my combos.
I’ve tried running frost clench for both mains, but again, people just charge at me with no setup time unleashing gods wrath while I’m sitting there patiently casting and getting to my 5 bow stacks.

Is it really that class balance is so far off that I just can’t play competitive with a magblade anymore? Is it the completely overturned Oakensoul that just rips right through my gameplay? Or do I simply not understand the fundamentals of the game after such a long pause?

Jeezye

So BTW, Im sitting at 26k armor, minor protection, vamp3, minor mending, minor and major main (if I’m not dead before), major evasion, potentially even adding minor and major enervation next patch.

Doesn’t seem to make much difference

Norith_Gilheart_Flail

First of all you come in here admitting you know you are playing the most garbage spec of magblade, and then you ask why you're taking so much whip (flame) damage as a Vampire.

Yes. Class balance is off. Play Stam.

Jeezye

Zavijah_Arventi wrote: »

First of all you come in here admitting you know you are playing the most garbage spec of magblade, and then you ask why you're taking so much whip (flame) damage as a Vampire.

Yes. Class balance is off. Play Stam.

Lmao tipping on a magdks toes here?

With investing in all the buffs/debuffs stated above I wouldn’t expect being that squishy. Regardless of facing dks, wardens or nightblades.

Read my post and leave constructive feedback

StarOfElyon

Jeezye wrote: »

Hey guys, so couple of background info: I’m a returning player from over a year ago, and I’m playing brawler magblade in pvp. Currently nocp BGs because that’s the only gamemode I can quickly jump in after work. I know I’m gimping myself playing the worst pvp spec, but in the past I was able to compensate with theorycrafting and skill.

Right now, running rally, wretched, bloodspawn and masters destro. Strong on paper.

Fact is, I’m getting absolutely nuked in BGs, even with all buffs up.

DKs whips hit for 8-9 k consistently, surprise attacks for 4-6k, there’s dead bodies thrown at me with major defile and bugs with major fracture hitting for 6k unavoidable damage.

Ofc I also do decent damage with the setup, but usually I’m dying before I can setup my combos.
I’ve tried running frost clench for both mains, but again, people just charge at me with no setup time unleashing gods wrath while I’m sitting there patiently casting and getting to my 5 bow stacks.

Is it really that class balance is so far off that I just can’t play competitive with a magblade anymore? Is it the completely overturned Oakensoul that just rips right through my gameplay? Or do I simply not understand the fundamentals of the game after such a long pause?

I appreciate off meta players. But yes, it's very brutal out there. I don't have a solution yet

xylena_lazarow

Power creep where there is too much of everything. Worst of both worlds, degenerate instagibs and unkillable trolls in the same meta. Damage will be comparatively extremely low in u35, making for an extremely boring tank meta, although unoptimized casual players who don't run enough HP will no doubt still die quickly.

Ididuz

I play magblade and i play only BG too. My setup is similar to yours but i have wretched sharp mace with crown poison on main bar, rally infused restro on back bar and trainee healthy ring. And i have some success with it. But i have 64 into Health and dont use vampire line. You dont need Undeath passive because too many negative effects. Dark cloak is ok with 40k health. Of course I alone can not kill the dragon knight, but he can not kill me either. After all the battlefield is a team game. Sorry for my English.
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=458541

Dem_kitkats1

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Power creep where there is too much of everything. Worst of both worlds, degenerate instagibs and unkillable trolls in the same meta. Damage will be comparatively extremely low in u35, making for an extremely boring tank meta, although unoptimized casual players who don't run enough HP will no doubt still die quickly.

Yeah it's burst or be bursted down, or build exceptionally tanky and nothing in between atm. Oakensoul has definitely made it more difficult for off meta, unoptimized builds to compete, along with the circulation of a couple of overperforming sets. There are imbalances for sure, and these items are definitely exacerbating them.

I don't have a magblade, so unfortunately I can't offer much help in terms of build. However, there is a large patch coming in August that includes many combat changes (NB skills included). So I would hold off on any major changes as the environment will likely change.

Jeezye

Ididuz wrote: »

I play magblade and i play only BG too. My setup is similar to yours but i have wretched sharp mace with crown poison on main bar, rally infused restro on back bar and trainee healthy ring. And i have some success with it. But i have 64 into Health and dont use vampire line. You dont need Undeath passive because too many negative effects. Dark cloak is ok with 40k health. Of course I alone can not kill the dragon knight, but he can not kill me either. After all the battlefield is a team game. Sorry for my English.
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=458541

thanks for sharing, a stamina version of the build is surely stronger but I'm refusing to switch, especially because i have a stamblade khajit already which does exactly that just 10x better.

Magblade feels horrible in comparison. Anyhow, I'll actualyl try another setup now with full crit (shadow, orders wrath) to buff healing even more. Let's see what that holds, but I'm not optimistic since I'll still get instagibbed most likely

sbam66

Jeezye wrote: »

Hey guys, so couple of background info: I’m a returning player from over a year ago, and I’m playing brawler magblade in pvp. Currently nocp BGs because that’s the only gamemode I can quickly jump in after work. I know I’m gimping myself playing the worst pvp spec, but in the past I was able to compensate with theorycrafting and skill.

Right now, running rally, wretched, bloodspawn and masters destro. Strong on paper.

Fact is, I’m getting absolutely nuked in BGs, even with all buffs up.

DKs whips hit for 8-9 k consistently, surprise attacks for 4-6k, there’s dead bodies thrown at me with major defile and bugs with major fracture hitting for 6k unavoidable damage.

Ofc I also do decent damage with the setup, but usually I’m dying before I can setup my combos.
I’ve tried running frost clench for both mains, but again, people just charge at me with no setup time unleashing gods wrath while I’m sitting there patiently casting and getting to my 5 bow stacks.

Is it really that class balance is so far off that I just can’t play competitive with a magblade anymore? Is it the completely overturned Oakensoul that just rips right through my gameplay? Or do I simply not understand the fundamentals of the game after such a long pause?

I have been playing the game & mostly BGs & literally in the same scenario as you. I usually Q up after work & catch a few games, not this patch. After the release of Oakensoul I’ve had to take a break from BGs. Before the patch my build was perfectly fine & did decent damage. But now, I run into corrosive spamming DKs every match so im waiting to see how BGs will be next patch & staying away from them currently.

Btw, I have went into BGs on my own Oakensoul corrosive DK & it does good. If u don’t have it, don’t expect to do to great in BGs this patch

MEBengalsFan2001

Jeezye wrote: »

Ididuz wrote: »

I play magblade and i play only BG too. My setup is similar to yours but i have wretched sharp mace with crown poison on main bar, rally infused restro on back bar and trainee healthy ring. And i have some success with it. But i have 64 into Health and dont use vampire line. You dont need Undeath passive because too many negative effects. Dark cloak is ok with 40k health. Of course I alone can not kill the dragon knight, but he can not kill me either. After all the battlefield is a team game. Sorry for my English.
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=458541

thanks for sharing, a stamina version of the build is surely stronger but I'm refusing to switch, especially because i have a stamblade khajit already which does exactly that just 10x better.

Magblade feels horrible in comparison. Anyhow, I'll actualyl try another setup now with full crit (shadow, orders wrath) to buff healing even more. Let's see what that holds, but I'm not optimistic since I'll still get instagibbed most likely

Hybrid is the way to play ESO ATM. It provides you with a bit of both magicka and stamina.

I'm sure down the road spell/weapon damage will be combined into one stat called Damage and damaging abilities will be based solely on that stat. From there, resources will simply be a means to use abilities vs. actually providing some type of bonus to damage. If the devs did this it would push further into how they are designing the game.

Not just damage is over the top ATM but so is healing. Next mod the over top HoT will finally be fixed.

Oakenaxe

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Hybrid is the way to play ESO ATM. It provides you with a bit of both magicka and stamina.

I'm sure down the road spell/weapon damage will be combined into one stat called Damage and damaging abilities will be based solely on that stat. From there, resources will simply be a means to use abilities vs. actually providing some type of bonus to damage. If the devs did this it would push further into how they are designing the game.

Not just damage is over the top ATM but so is healing. Next mod the over top HoT will finally be fixed.

I'm beggining to feel the same way, but I have to say, it feels very weird and counter-intuitive this whole hybridization thing. Might as well come up with "stamicka".

CameraBeardThePirate

OP, to actually answer your question, it's likely a little bit of everything.

Yes, Oakensoul is overtuned in PvP. That fact alone will hurt your survivability, but luckily next patch it won't be as strong.

Yes, magblade does suffer a little more than stamblade, but to be honest you should still be able to have a pretty defensive magblade spec while still dealing plenty of damage. Make sure you're running Mirage for the extra resists and Major Evasion.

You mentioned that you're a vampire. DKs right now are very strong, partly because of oakensoul, and partly because they buffed Corrosive Armor to give Spell Pen, allowing it to buff Molten Whip. You're going to take a lot of flame damage as a vampire. However, Undeath is also really powerful, so my suggestion is to learn how to spot DKs that go into corrosive and [snip] when they do.

Finally, there's been a general power creep ever since they changed the CP system. I'm not sure when you left, but when they redid the CP system they buffed everyone's base stats by a LOT. This means that damage is higher than its ever been, even in non-CP environments. Pretty much mandatory to run around 35k health nowadays.

Hope I was able to help a little bit, keep at it!

[edited for profanity bypass]

Jeezye

I definitely notices very high HP numbers ins PvP, way beyond 30k on average. Im sitting at around 28k, so being more fleshy might actually be a good idea. Especially with dark cloak.

Dorkener

Block cast Offering to counter big bursts (it's been buffed substantially from since you last played), HoT+cloak is not enough anymore unless you're also LoSing/kiting with high movement speed. Especially vs more than 1 person.

Sluggy

My personal opinion is that LoS is a gamble. If you've been away for a long time you will likely find that skills and LoS work completely differently from before. Position desync is absolutely insane right these days.

Jeezye

Sluggy wrote: »

My personal opinion is that LoS is a gamble. If you've been away for a long time you will likely find that skills and LoS work completely differently from before. Position desync is absolutely insane right these days.

I’ve actually noticed that! Running around a corner, healing, then exploding.
DR shows two frags and fury.

fred4

So are you a cloaking magblade, or non cloaking? Do you have heals over time or none?

My primary heal is Shrewd Offering. I sometimes use Swallow Soul, at other times I have only the burst heal. I've tried Rallying Cry. Doesn't work for me on my magblade. You want a HOT or a ground heal with Rallying Cry, which procs that set much more naturally.

Wretched Vitality is a great set, but only for non-cloaking builds. Cloaking builds need Atro mundus, double regen food or drink and possibly some cost reduction or additional regen from back barring the Barrier ult.

I forget what your playstyle is. I guess "Brawler magblade" means non-cloaking? Do you use Shadow Image? Do you use a lot of speed, RAT, Swift, Celerity CP, Concealed Weapon? Do you use Shadowy Disguise or Dark Cloak?

If ganking / opening from stealth is part of your playstyle, then Oakensoul is a serious consideration. However as a very high speed magblade, I miss Wild Hunt. It is noticeable. One option to compensate for lack of speed is to use a bow. It doesn't give you top speed, but greater average speed. It also gives you crit, if you're not already using daggers. Oakensoul, Order's Wrath and a bow has some obvious synergies.

Speaking of attacking, Force Shock has synergies with poisons and the Moon Hunter set. As I constantly get attacked by Savage WW though, a set that can proc two (or more?) times on top of itself, I'm also due to try that set on magblade, if next patch wasn't already around the corner.

Yes, defense is hard. High health is an option, but I find it very hard to square the circle on magblade. I saw a nightblade with 47K health, but he was just observing duels, not fighting. Zoal helps, but damage is so high, it's not even great anymore. The other thing is the sheer amount of other nightblades / gankers that can one shot you. I use Detection potions as a matter of course, and sometimes use Sentry on top of that. I tried Aetherial Ascension + Rallying Cry at one point, which felt tankier, but just a bit. I then moved on to quite an opposite approach:

A defensive strategy that does work in general is blocking. I prefer getting away, but sometimes you can't. I have therefore taken a leaf from my DK. There is a set called Steadfast's Mettle that probably no one uses. Core combat skill cost reduction by 25% while you have a food buff (Citrus Fillet). Use an ice staff. Can proc Brittle for extra damage. The block cost on my magblade is 950. When I get focused, I block. Dodge, break free and sprint are also reduced, and this stacks with the other 25% you can get from CP, when you have a status effect on you. If you want to take that further, then Bracing Anchor CP and / or Defensive Stance from 1H+S skill line will do that. Trust me on this. Resistances aren't all that important, apart from crit resist. Blocking is quite OP, if you spec into it. This will not protect you from gankers, because you can't always block, but it works against brawlers ... not that I'd stay near a DK for too long, even so.

It depends on how far you want to take it. If you wear Steadfast's Mettle and some combination of light and medium armor, Well Fitted is no longer a requirement. If you wear Rallying Cry, Impenetrable is not required. Make Sturdy gear. Use an ice staff or 1H+S as one of your weapons. Ice staff with Oakensoul. That's what I run now.

Bloodspawn on magblade? Meh. Use Magma Incarnate for the double regen, 1 piece or two. If you use Mettle you will have another line of stam regen. That kind of covers that side. If you have space for two monster pieces, try Zoal. I like Wretched Vitality, but I don't really think it's a runner.

If you want to be a vamp, you could try stage 4 and Dov Rha Sabatons. I've also played around with Lefthander's Girdle and a Jorvuld's Guidance bow on the back bar. That one is interesting, but just so different and Jorvuld's isn't very stat-dense. Right now I don't PvP that much. When I do, I'm sticking with Oakensoul while it lasts.

Finally, Crushing Shock should be a serious consideration over Swallow Soul and I'd try an Asylum destro over the Master one. If you want to give DKs a hard time, while in Corrosive, you have to hit them with lots of small damage. That's where Savage Werewolf comes in as well. Building a Corrosive Oakensoul DK isn't quite as rosy as it seems. Those DKs can lack continuous healing. They can be brought down with DOTs and lots of small damage, even while in Corrosive. Templars are a nemesis of theirs, and so is Force Shock.

If you go the bow route, then go hybrid and try Draining Shot with a Blackrose bow. That is pretty nasty when your stats are good and can help your survivability a lot.

In other words, I actually think there are options, but this meta is so weird, it takes a lot of experimentation to get anywhere. The next meta is already around the corner. Change fatigue is real for me. I haven't even explored all I want to explore.

Baconlad

Go full glass canon OP. The way this patch is? Yeah full glass canon rocks. I'd rather kill one two or three players before I get nuked in three seconds than try to kill one player and get nuked in four seconds.

Skill heals are all the defense you need. Run oakensoul yourself. It's a game changer. Even after the patch it will still rock socks. I run BGs as a magplar with only one heal. Honor the dead. That's it. I got four deaths and 25 kills in a deathmatch against three players who were in the top ten leaderboards I was up against. They built for a balanced defense, damage build and died roughly the same amount of times with only 5-10 kills each...

Go full rage glass canon. You won't regret it

fred4

Just a note on heavy armor. It's not needed, if you're after resistances. There are so many other ways to get those. Markyn. Magma Incarnate. Aetherial Ascension. Trial by Fire. Good old Pariah (weapon / jewelry). Not that those make you especially tanky anymore.

What heavy armor IMO has going for it is increased healing and resource return. It naturally fits in with blocking playstyles on account of the latter. I still wouldn't use it. Why? You take 1% more magic / elemental damage for every piece. A Corrosive DK will negate all of your armor and most of them are magic based. That means whips, but also the heavy attack one shot builds. TBH the latter seemed to be a fad in spring. I don't see them much anymore, probably because there are so many other crazy things going on (bowsorcs). Nonetheless, it's worth being aware that heavy armor doesn't have a straight up mitigation advantage anymore. Against DKs, including heavy attack ganking DKs, it is, in fact, a weakness. If I could wear all medium, I would, but you need the sustain and you probably actually want the crit % from light. A mixture of light and medium is IMO the way to go. 1 piece heavy chest for the Undaunted passive? Sure. Maybe. I actually wear 1x medium, 6x light. It's a magicka-based meta overall. At the very least the stamina dominance is over.

fred4

Baconlad wrote: »

Go full rage glass canon. You won't regret it

I agree that's an option to strongly consider. It's hard to get away from it. I ran into a nightblade who had 19K health, hitting me for 15K Incaps. He would kill me every time in ganking scenarios. Heavy attack, Incap and 2K of a Caluurion proc was enough to kill my 25K health. By 2K Caluurion I mean that, by the time Caluurion hit, I already only had 2K health left, according to FTC combat log. That player used DW and Whirlwind as well.

I am not the OP, but the guy who gave advice on being tanky by block cost reduction. See above. I like participating and surviving in the middle of a brawl, even if it's just for a few seconds at a time. The biggest dangers are being caught by AOE burst or being focused by organised players. In case of the latter, turtling up with an ice staff (or 1H+S) and block spamming Shrewd Offering for a few seconds can work, if you have the build for it. It's a matter of convincing organised attackers that you are not the squishy target they thought you were and picking the right time to cast Race Against Time to get away.

dinokstrunz

Oakenscrolls Online.
This ring should've been disabled in PvP months ago.

UnassumingNoob

OP thanks for posting this. I am in a similar situation. I used to be average/slightly above average. I was able to hold my own but atm I am getting hammered. PVP is in such a shot place right now - oaken everywhere. The whole game system (pvp) seems broken.

It’s an arms race. I was doing good two bar builds and getting pooped on. Just gonna broken soul it up until they nerf it. At this point I don’t know what to do as an average player.

XiangliSYD

Oakenhealer, Oakenplar, OakenDK.

These are not only so powerful but also so easy to play. Always fully buffed, always attacking/healer, ultimate always ready.

It is a braindead zerging fest if you get more than a few of these in a BG.

I myself got all 3 but find no enjoyment in playing them.

MEBengalsFan2001

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Oakenscrolls Online.
This ring should've been disabled in PvP months ago.

I gave up trying to avoid the cheese because events typically results in not being able to bar swap. The ring really helps with this event in that regards. The problem I'm running into is that all of my abilities grey out, so even if I have only one bar I can't do anything. But the players I'm going against and spamming abilities away as I'm trying to even pop a heal or even my potion. Heck there are times I can't block, dodge roll or even move and I'm not rooted or stunned.

The issues I mentioned above only occur when I'm going against EP players. Against DC I see lag but I don't run into issues where I can't do anything even when there are 100+ DC players near me. With EP it takes 1 or 2 players and all of my stuff simply stops working. Not all EP player but specific players result in my stuff simply not working.