ToT feels like such a waste of time

Arato

You spend 20 minutes or so per match, and from that invested time I get some garbage white food or potions, some common crafting mats, and a low level blue provisioning recipe.
Doing basically anything but ToT for that 20 min would have been more rewarding.
I feel like they stack the "reward" containers with garbage to give the illusion that you're being rewarded but aren't in fact getting anything for your time.

Arato

Namely though, where are the card upgrades? It seems like I'm supposed to upgrade cards but I never get them. So I feel like I spend 20 minutes to spin my wheels in place and not really progress.

auz

If you think those rewards are crap, wait until you try bgs.

endgamesmug

Tried the intro quest and all that, easily the most tedious thing ive ever done in all my years playing eso.

redspecter23

If it helps, as you learn the computer AI, you can often get those games down to 3 minutes or less with a small bit of luck and typically under 9 minutes even if they choose suboptimal patrons.

As for player matches, I suspect the reward is more of a small bonus and that the enjoyment of the game is supposed to be the real reward as well as potentially leaderboard progress.

Alchemical

Either you have terrible luck or I've got godly luck because I've made quite a bit on selling motifs and furnishings from ToT rewards. I don't remember which one it was off the top of my head, but one of the motifs I got was averaging around 100k, which isn't bad for 10 minutes of effort. It's not bad for 20 either, especially when you consider that daily quests that give motifs have a lot of travel time, and other farmable drops are low chances from beating hard content. Pretty much anyone can spam out ToT games quickly once you've got a grasp on how to play efficiently. It's been a good money maker for me, but I also just enjoy playing it. YMMV.

Bekkael

It feels like a waste of time because it is. 🤪😁

robpr

It's a good source of alchemy materials (until they nerf the dragon mats dropchance) if you speedrun the novice NPC daily for 6 coffers.

WinterHeart626

I play enough card games in RL that I skip ToT. If I want to play a card game, I’ll go play the ones I’ve got. I don’t need yet another card game that’s loaded inside another game.

Drammanoth

WinterHeart626 wrote: »

I play enough card games in RL that I skip ToT. If I want to play a card game, I’ll go play the ones I’ve got. I don’t need yet another card game that’s loaded inside another game.

The very reaso why it is worth waiting for another chapter - provided the game is not killed by another "trust-me-I-know-better" Updates.

Lady_Galadhiel

Rewards are great, I often get Dragon Blood or Dragon Rheum,,Mother of Pearls or Clam Galls in stacks of 5. If you play against an NPC it takes less than 5 minutes per match.If you think this is bad than wait till U35 comes, then reward boxes will literally get garbage, with less chance for alchemy ingredients or motifs.

The only thing what annoys me much is the very slim chance of getting card clues dropped.

Arato

auz wrote: »

If you think those rewards are crap, wait until you try bgs.

if bg loot is that bad you should be complaining about it. getting trash food you can swipe off of tables that isn't even worth stealing, and trash potions and common crafting mats is just not worth the time. I have 0 interest in PVP so I don't do BG's

Arato

Alchemical wrote: »

Either you have terrible luck or I've got godly luck because I've made quite a bit on selling motifs and furnishings from ToT rewards. I don't remember which one it was off the top of my head, but one of the motifs I got was averaging around 100k, which isn't bad for 10 minutes of effort. It's not bad for 20 either, especially when you consider that daily quests that give motifs have a lot of travel time, and other farmable drops are low chances from beating hard content. Pretty much anyone can spam out ToT games quickly once you've got a grasp on how to play efficiently. It's been a good money maker for me, but I also just enjoy playing it. YMMV.

probably garbage luck
but my reward bags are choose 4 from this list:

1x white quality CP100 food like Bravil's Best Beet Risotto
12x standard health, magicka, or stamina potions
5x tier 10 common crafting mat (usually potency runes in my experience)
1x blue or purple quality tier 3 provisioning recipe
1x green quality tempering material
5x furniture crafting mats (I think probably the most valuable thing I got out of any of them)

But if it's low drop rates, that's a lot of time to spend to get next to nothing most of the time.
like I could spend 20 minutes doing basically any other thing in game, and come out with something more meaningful than what I'd get out of ToT.
it might be a motif page I don't have that I want to learn or sell, it might be a furniture pattern same thing, it might be just pick pocketing and fencing still probably a more useful way to spend time, or getting skyshards on an alt or running an RND dungeon.. practically anything is better than spending 20 minutes for a Bravil's Best Beet Risotto that I could loot off the tables of one of these inns I play in.
in fact that's like, how the rewards seem to be.. the opponent just grabs a bowl of soup off the table next to them, hands it to you and says "Your reward? Oh uh...... here we go, yeah, on me pal"

Ratzkifal

White food, common crafting materials and potions, so far so understandable, but low level provisioning recipes can be worth a lot of gold and are usually the only ones still missing before you completed your recipe book.

BlueRaven

Building materials, furniture plans/items, and transmute gems (nowadays my only real source) is why I do the daily on multiple characters.

Arato

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

Rewards are great, I often get Dragon Blood or Dragon Rheum,,Mother of Pearls or Clam Galls in stacks of 5. If you play against an NPC it takes less than 5 minutes per match.If you think this is bad than wait till U35 comes, then reward boxes will literally get garbage, with less chance for alchemy ingredients or motifs.

The only thing what annoys me much is the very slim chance of getting card clues dropped.

I've only gotten a single card upgrade, and because the NPC's choose decks first, most matches I never even get to use my upgraded card because we're using their duke of crows deck not mine.

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.

Thank you for your understanding.

Arato

I guess if I make sure not to use the one patron that novice opponents WILL actually turn to them I can win faster, but still about 10 min a match and more Bravil's Best Beet Risotto and common crafting mats.
I haven't gotten anything valuable, and no card upgrades in 10 matches so far today

Dragonnord

Arato wrote: »

You spend 20 minutes or so per match, and from that invested time I get some garbage white food or potions, some common crafting mats, and a low level blue provisioning recipe.
Doing basically anything but ToT for that 20 min would have been more rewarding.
I feel like they stack the "reward" containers with garbage to give the illusion that you're being rewarded but aren't in fact getting anything for your time.

Really? What would you want? A mount?

You knew you can play 100 games per day if you want, right? So what type of reward you would like that wouldn't prevent you from becoming a billionaire in a few months?

Sometimes it's good to give things a thought before complaining.
 

Skvysh

redspecter23 wrote: »

If it helps, as you learn the computer AI, you can often get those games down to 3 minutes or less with a small bit of luck and typically under 9 minutes even if they choose suboptimal patrons.

You can immediately concede once AI picks "bad" patrons without any penalties - and challenge them again for better rolls. That way you can ensure that you can always setup a quick patron win, which should take around <2 minutes most of the time.

Granted, this doesn't work well with Novice level NPCs, because they have access to only 2 of the 5 "good" patron decks that allows easy, condition-less favours.

Arato wrote: »

I guess if I make sure not to use the one patron that novice opponents WILL actually turn to them I can win faster, but still about 10 min a match and more Bravil's Best Beet Risotto and common crafting mats.
I haven't gotten anything valuable, and no card upgrades in 10 matches so far today

It wouldn't make sense for this particular activity to be more profitable than anything else. BGs aren't necessarily profitable, Cyro isn't, looting/stealing isn't either - all those activities are either building up towards something long term or have a very small chance to roll some of the big-ticket items (like tapestries in ToT). Can't even make a decent living out of fishing/scrying, the other two "mini-games" that have been around for longer.
Considering that you can pretty much guarantee a box every 3 minutes or so at a certain point, with no cooldown or limit, I think it's fair that the rewards don't necessarily feel overwhelming.

As for card upgrades - UESP's logged data so far shows a rate of about 1/40 (2.5% chance) of obtaining a clue, though there are certain flaws with using that approach (considerably small sample size, data doesn't account for coffer quality and all data from all people logging is clumped together, disregarding the ones that have obtained all clues already). Personal experience puts it closer to around 1/20 rate, while others are having more terrible luck. I'd say putting it somewhere in the middle - around 1/30 (3.75%) is about as accurate approximation as you can get currently.

Psilent

Skvysh wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

If it helps, as you learn the computer AI, you can often get those games down to 3 minutes or less with a small bit of luck and typically under 9 minutes even if they choose suboptimal patrons.

You can immediately concede once AI picks "bad" patrons without any penalties - and challenge them again for better rolls. That way you can ensure that you can always setup a quick patron win, which should take around <2 minutes most of the time.

Granted, this doesn't work well with Novice level NPCs, because they have access to only 2 of the 5 "good" patron decks that allows easy, condition-less favours.

Arato wrote: »

I guess if I make sure not to use the one patron that novice opponents WILL actually turn to them I can win faster, but still about 10 min a match and more Bravil's Best Beet Risotto and common crafting mats.
I haven't gotten anything valuable, and no card upgrades in 10 matches so far today

It wouldn't make sense for this particular activity to be more profitable than anything else. BGs aren't necessarily profitable, Cyro isn't, looting/stealing isn't either - all those activities are either building up towards something long term or have a very small chance to roll some of the big-ticket items (like tapestries in ToT). Can't even make a decent living out of fishing/scrying, the other two "mini-games" that have been around for longer.
Considering that you can pretty much guarantee a box every 3 minutes or so at a certain point, with no cooldown or limit, I think it's fair that the rewards don't necessarily feel overwhelming.

As for card upgrades - UESP's logged data so far shows a rate of about 1/40 (2.5% chance) of obtaining a clue, though there are certain flaws with using that approach (considerably small sample size, data doesn't account for coffer quality and all data from all people logging is clumped together, disregarding the ones that have obtained all clues already). Personal experience puts it closer to around 1/20 rate, while others are having more terrible luck. I'd say putting it somewhere in the middle - around 1/30 (3.75%) is about as accurate approximation as you can get currently.

Is spamming pvp matches or npc’s a faster way to farm the clues? I’ve got 2 more clues to go to finish all the decks.

Can you get clues from white defeat boxes or only green/blue/purple boxes?

redspecter23

Psilent wrote: »

Skvysh wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

If it helps, as you learn the computer AI, you can often get those games down to 3 minutes or less with a small bit of luck and typically under 9 minutes even if they choose suboptimal patrons.

You can immediately concede once AI picks "bad" patrons without any penalties - and challenge them again for better rolls. That way you can ensure that you can always setup a quick patron win, which should take around <2 minutes most of the time.

Granted, this doesn't work well with Novice level NPCs, because they have access to only 2 of the 5 "good" patron decks that allows easy, condition-less favours.

Arato wrote: »

I guess if I make sure not to use the one patron that novice opponents WILL actually turn to them I can win faster, but still about 10 min a match and more Bravil's Best Beet Risotto and common crafting mats.
I haven't gotten anything valuable, and no card upgrades in 10 matches so far today

It wouldn't make sense for this particular activity to be more profitable than anything else. BGs aren't necessarily profitable, Cyro isn't, looting/stealing isn't either - all those activities are either building up towards something long term or have a very small chance to roll some of the big-ticket items (like tapestries in ToT). Can't even make a decent living out of fishing/scrying, the other two "mini-games" that have been around for longer.
Considering that you can pretty much guarantee a box every 3 minutes or so at a certain point, with no cooldown or limit, I think it's fair that the rewards don't necessarily feel overwhelming.

As for card upgrades - UESP's logged data so far shows a rate of about 1/40 (2.5% chance) of obtaining a clue, though there are certain flaws with using that approach (considerably small sample size, data doesn't account for coffer quality and all data from all people logging is clumped together, disregarding the ones that have obtained all clues already). Personal experience puts it closer to around 1/20 rate, while others are having more terrible luck. I'd say putting it somewhere in the middle - around 1/30 (3.75%) is about as accurate approximation as you can get currently.

Is spamming pvp matches or npc’s a faster way to farm the clues? I’ve got 2 more clues to go to finish all the decks.

Can you get clues from white defeat boxes or only green/blue/purple boxes?

My guess is that pve spamming would lead to more boxes per minute compared to pvp. The pvp boxes may or may not have a higher chance for a clue (that would be incredibly difficult to test and ZOS won't tell us), but I suspect that even if the chance is higher, it won't make up for the time difference in the match length.

Skvysh

Psilent wrote: »

Is spamming pvp matches or npc’s a faster way to farm the clues? I’ve got 2 more clues to go to finish all the decks.

I think it's safe to say that green ones are faster, even if the drop rate in those is lower - PvP matches can take 20-30 minutes and you're not even guaranteed a win, whereas PvE one should take around 3 mins (assuming you have access to Proficient NPCs and including the time it takes to concede and restart on "bad" patron rolls).

Psilent wrote: »

Can you get clues from white defeat boxes or only green/blue/purple boxes?

A few weeks ago I would've said green+ only. Apparently, though, there's at least one recorded hit. Assuming it's not an error in data (1 clue in all 322 logged samples is fishy), at the very least it's safe to say that the higher the quality of the box - the better the odds. Anecdotal evidence seems to support the theory as well (i.e. more purple boxes contained clues than green ones), though due to sheer amount of greens vs blues/purples you can open, majority of your clues will/should still come from green boxes.

PinkApple

White food, potions, and soulgems are being removed from the lootpool with U35.

Jaimeh

Arato wrote: »

You spend 20 minutes or so per match, and from that invested time I get some garbage white food or potions, some common crafting mats, and a low level blue provisioning recipe.
Doing basically anything but ToT for that 20 min would have been more rewarding.
I feel like they stack the "reward" containers with garbage to give the illusion that you're being rewarded but aren't in fact getting anything for your time.

Do you mean playing against NPCs or players? Because against NPCs, matches take a lot less time than that, especially at higher levels, and they can finish within 5-7 minutes.

Alchemical

Arato wrote: »

But if it's low drop rates, that's a lot of time to spend to get next to nothing most of the time.
like I could spend 20 minutes doing basically any other thing in game, and come out with something more meaningful than what I'd get out of ToT.

But you can also do virtually anything else and come away with less also. RNG is RNG is RNG at the end of the day. Obviously if you don't like the game investing a lot of time in it is a big ask to only get good rewards occasionally, I'm just saying I think it's rewards are relatively balanced for how spammable ToT is vs say, Undaunted Daily Quests. Compare them and UD also give white food and potions with the very rare motif; but only once per day per character and have multiple load screens that'll add up to about as long as most games by the time you get back. I don't enjoy hiking out to random delves to do something trivial then hike back just for those foods and potions, but I can sit in my cool house and chat with my friends during my opponents turns in ToT, cranking out 5 or 6 per hour.

In the end there's different ways to farm, you should do whatever you enjoy and if it's not for you that's fine! I just wouldn't discount it entirely.

Arato

Dragonnord wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

You spend 20 minutes or so per match, and from that invested time I get some garbage white food or potions, some common crafting mats, and a low level blue provisioning recipe.
Doing basically anything but ToT for that 20 min would have been more rewarding.
I feel like they stack the "reward" containers with garbage to give the illusion that you're being rewarded but aren't in fact getting anything for your time.

Really? What would you want? A mount?

You knew you can play 100 games per day if you want, right? So what type of reward you would like that wouldn't prevent you from becoming a billionaire in a few months?

Sometimes it's good to give things a thought before complaining.
 

I think the main thing I'd want is more card upgrade drops, so it feels like I'm progressing, and not just getting "Bravil's Best Beet Risotto" and 3 resource node's worth of mats.

Skvysh

Arato wrote: »

I think the main thing I'd want is more card upgrade drops, so it feels like I'm progressing, and not just getting "Bravil's Best Beet Risotto" and 3 resource node's worth of mats.

The card upgrades will definitely be the last achievement you'll earn from ToT, assuming you'll do 100 ranked games - it's quite grindy.

But the upgrades are also a terrible concept - they make no sense given how deck builders work, they make even less sense when you have players pick decks (and therefore you aren't even guaranteed to see the upgrades you own in play), and they take up at least 4 slots per deck that could be used for more unique cards.

Dragonnord

Arato wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

You spend 20 minutes or so per match, and from that invested time I get some garbage white food or potions, some common crafting mats, and a low level blue provisioning recipe.
Doing basically anything but ToT for that 20 min would have been more rewarding.
I feel like they stack the "reward" containers with garbage to give the illusion that you're being rewarded but aren't in fact getting anything for your time.

Really? What would you want? A mount?

You knew you can play 100 games per day if you want, right? So what type of reward you would like that wouldn't prevent you from becoming a billionaire in a few months?

Sometimes it's good to give things a thought before complaining.
 

I think the main thing I'd want is more card upgrade drops, so it feels like I'm progressing, and not just getting "Bravil's Best Beet Risotto" and 3 resource node's worth of mats.

1 - More card upgrades = No need. They are wasy to get playing regularly. I got all og them like 3 weeks ago already. Still, once you get all the upgrades you are back to zero and you will feel like you are being rewarded with trash again.

2 - 3 resource node's worth of mats = So, 100 games per day if you want, each one with 3 resource node's worth of mats? Billionaire in less than a month.
 

Arato

Skvysh wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

I think the main thing I'd want is more card upgrade drops, so it feels like I'm progressing, and not just getting "Bravil's Best Beet Risotto" and 3 resource node's worth of mats.

The card upgrades will definitely be the last achievement you'll earn from ToT, assuming you'll do 100 ranked games - it's quite grindy.

But the upgrades are also a terrible concept - they make no sense given how deck builders work, they make even less sense when you have players pick decks (and therefore you aren't even guaranteed to see the upgrades you own in play), and they take up at least 4 slots per deck that could be used for more unique cards.

Well I mean when playing NPC's they always pick first, and most the time they pick duke of crows, so .. my 1 upgraded card is toll of silver, and I never get to use it because the opponent's duke of crows deck is being played.

Arato

Dragonnord wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

You spend 20 minutes or so per match, and from that invested time I get some garbage white food or potions, some common crafting mats, and a low level blue provisioning recipe.
Doing basically anything but ToT for that 20 min would have been more rewarding.
I feel like they stack the "reward" containers with garbage to give the illusion that you're being rewarded but aren't in fact getting anything for your time.

Really? What would you want? A mount?

You knew you can play 100 games per day if you want, right? So what type of reward you would like that wouldn't prevent you from becoming a billionaire in a few months?

Sometimes it's good to give things a thought before complaining.
 

I think the main thing I'd want is more card upgrade drops, so it feels like I'm progressing, and not just getting "Bravil's Best Beet Risotto" and 3 resource node's worth of mats.

1 - More card upgrades = No need. They are wasy to get playing regularly. I got all og them like 3 weeks ago already. Still, once you get all the upgrades you are back to zero and you will feel like you are being rewarded with trash again.

2 - 3 resource node's worth of mats = So, 100 games per day if you want, each one with 3 resource node's worth of mats? Billionaire in less than a month.
 

You could farm runestones with harvestmap and make more money faster if you're thinking of selling mundane runes.

right now ToT is a sinkhole, spending more time to get nothing back, and I'm just supposed to play it for the enjoyment of the repetitive gameplay and Bravil's Best Beet Risoitto I guess.
I'm almost rank 3 and I have a single card upgrade.
so yes card upgrades should be a bit better droprates.
because I'm spinning my wheels in mud.