Given that U35 is shaking the foundation of the game, it is time...

Casul

It is time to make sub 50 battlegrounds a place where no sets are active.

In my opinion, sub 50 PvP should be a place where newcomers can go to get a feeling for PvP. Yet, if we take a look at the sub 50 Cyrodiil. It is typically empty. The only reason sub 50 battlegrounds are active, in my opinion, is the XP incentive.

I know many PvPers (myself included up to this point) have always claimed that gearing a sub 50 character is a right you have earned, but truthfully, it would be better for the longevity of PvP if there was a more even field for newcomers to learn on.

That is why sub 50 BG would be ideal. I am aware that there is obviously other influences like player skill level and character level, but those pale in comparison to the significant difference between an ungeared sub 50 character and a fully geared sub 50 character.

I think given the shift in the games foundation with U35, it is now the perfect time to set this idea into motion.

Edit1: I also recognize that it is unhelpful of me to put an idea out without any groundwork. So to me, the most balanced option would be.

Glyphs, food, and poisons/potions will still work in sub 50.
All skills will work.
All traits will work.

I know it is not perfectly balanced, but I believe this will help address some of the issues in sub 50.

Please discuss.

DagenHawk

I just don't think that U35 is shaking any foundations to begin with...

I guess ZoS just wants to stop the clearing of HM in 13 Mins.

GetAgrippa

DagenHawk wrote: »

I just don't think that U35 is shaking any foundations to begin with...

You don't think fundamental changes to class defining abilities such as Scorch and Jabs is foundation shaking? Class defining abilities are the foundation of those classes. And they just shook them up, to put it mildly.

DagenHawk

GetAgrippa wrote: »

DagenHawk wrote: »

I just don't think that U35 is shaking any foundations to begin with...

You don't think fundamental changes to class defining abilities such as Scorch and Jabs is foundation shaking? Class defining abilities are the foundation of those classes. And they just shook them up, to put it mildly.

After playing games like EQ...Wow...FFXIV and seeing how combat and skills have changed?

Not really.

GetAgrippa

DagenHawk wrote: »

After playing games like EQ...Wow...FFXIV and seeing how combat and skills have changed?

Not really.

We're trying to salvage ESO. Not other games.

Pevey

DagenHawk wrote: »

I just don't think that U35 is shaking any foundations to begin with...

I guess ZoS just wants to stop the clearing of HM in 13 Mins.

Lol, how many HMs have you cleared in 13 minutes? Any of your friends? Anyone you actually know?

Arcanasx

Pevey wrote: »

DagenHawk wrote: »

I just don't think that U35 is shaking any foundations to begin with...

I guess ZoS just wants to stop the clearing of HM in 13 Mins.

Lol, how many HMs have you cleared in 13 minutes? Any of your friends? Anyone you actually know?

Considering that person previously mentioned that they hope weaving is removed next update, probably none. Sometimes people prefer to light attack spam in first person having epic delve fights with their companions while using a few abilities sprinkled in.

Psiion

Greetings,

As this thread is in regards to Battlegrounds, we have moved this thread to the Battlegrounds and Dueling section of the forums as it is better fit there.

Dem_kitkats1

I absolutely agree with you OP. Sub 50 BGs is awful for new players; especially when it's the one place where you're supposed to be on the most equal footing with other players. However, I've seen a great number of smurf accounts cycling through many various characters in meta gear simply farming as a many players as they can. It's not a good environment when already skilled players can astronomically widen the gap, because they also know how to put together strong builds in an environment that shouldn't be all that competitive. New players get frustrated that even in low levels they're getting absolutely destroyed, they don't even have the chance to fight back because they're learning the game, and they immediately quit because, well, it's a pretty ridiculous experience.

New players need an area where they can get a feel for PvP combat, learn the different modes, actually experience the challenge and fun of BGs/PvP without getting massively steamrolled by other players. Gear is definitely a large contributor to the current mess of sub 50 BGs.

darvaria

Under 50 should include a standard set of gear for everyone that scales accordingly. The only gear that can be used there. Same with under 50 Cyro. It used to be jammed with twinks steam rolling players that are really new to the game. I've encountered several players new to the game. They try bg's or cyro and leave, most of them saying they are "not interested" in PVP.

That said, anything other than GH is dead or completely rolled by one faction.

Casul

@Dem_kitkats1 @darvaria

While I think standardizing gear would be an option, I just wonder about the impact on weapons now that the game is hybridized. Unless they made it so you could pick at the beginning if the match, but that still has the issue of them taking the gear back at the end. Also not thinking of the dreaded in combat glitch that would prevent swapping weapons. That's why I started with making all sets not active. It seems the most feasible, with the least amount of negative side effects.

Dem_kitkats1

BuildMan wrote: »

@Dem_kitkats1 @darvaria

While I think standardizing gear would be an option, I just wonder about the impact on weapons now that the game is hybridized. Unless they made it so you could pick at the beginning if the match, but that still has the issue of them taking the gear back at the end. Also not thinking of the dreaded in combat glitch that would prevent swapping weapons. That's why I started with making all sets not active. It seems the most feasible, with the least amount of negative side effects.

I like the idea of standardizing BGs in general. However, I understand that many players aren't keen on the idea. So unless the entirety of BGs is standardized I don't think sub 50 should be either, as it should still prepare players somewhat for what's to come in regular BGs. Maybe the simplest way to tackle the gearing issue is to make sub 50s a no proc mode? New players can still get used to the idea of buildcrafting in PvP without having to contend and combat players using proc sets. I understand that smurfs will still find a way to be strong, but it might be an easier solution, to dismantling the BGs system, or creating too large of a transition from sub to post 50s BGs.

I do also wish they had more of a tutorial or something to go over BGs and the different modes, but that doesn't seem like a priority atm...

mmtaniac

Smurfs should play against smurfs only especially on low level battlegrounds how much cp you have should count. New players are people from no cp to 160. 1-160 cp should be new player category. Higher cp level are veterans that have queue against other veterans. This way maybe new players will have some fun and stay in pvp for longer and try learns some game more.

Ballzy321

I would love an equalized pvp game mode where they could actually balance each class for. Because of the hundred plus sets in the game balancing becomes impossible between classes

Casul

mmtaniac wrote: »

Smurfs should play against smurfs only especially on low level battlegrounds how much cp you have should count. New players are people from no cp to 160. 1-160 cp should be new player category. Higher cp level are veterans that have queue against other veterans. This way maybe new players will have some fun and stay in pvp for longer and try learns some game more.

Issue is what about the CP1500 PvEer who decides he/she is bored with questing and wants to try leveling a character in battlegrounds.

CP is not a good measure of PvP skill (or skill in general).

I actually like the no proc sub 50 as a start. But it should probably be all no proc, not just some.

But honestly I still think no sets would be more balanced for sub 50.

Ulfhethinn

I level all my alts in sub50 BGs, because the fights tend to be more chaotic and have a lot of back and forth you don't see much of in the level cap BGs. True, it's a bit unfair to completely new players, since you can transmute up two blue sets, but there's a cap to the optimization level that you don't see with the lvl 50 BGs - where newer players that have hit level cap are dealing with full gold/mythic/etc optimizations.

I would extend this sort of suggestion to all BGs (sub50 and 50), probably an unpopular idea, that for example all gear is set to blue/superior quality (maybe even green), disabling mythics entirely and maybe restricting some of the top proc sets.

Less optimized builds would make all the BGs more accessible and probably lead to more interesting combat than the meta builds just 1-2-3-facemelting opponents. Players would have to think more about strategy (at least in non-DM) and actually play the objectives than just win thru killing enough so objectives are uncontested.