Return major force to oakensoul.

Shadowasrial

Quite simply there are only 2 abilities in the entire game that grant major force and only 2 sets of armor that grant it. One of the sets randomly granting it 33% of the time. For solo pve major force is a huge boon for players lacking in the damage department. And from a pvp setting yes it may be just a bit overtuned however on live servers I’m playing without a single piece of impen or a crit resistance passive from the champion tree and I’m just fine. Yes I can get ganked but more than half the time it still fails and I kill the player regardless. All while no impen is being used I have 1300 crit res and I’m doing just fine. Now what if I had placed at least 3-4 pieces of impen or slot the passive in the champ tree? Well then that major force will hit a whole lot less wouldn’t it. In short there are ways to mitigate the 20% crit damage buff but many players choose not to run the proper counter as it doesn’t allow them to further pad their stats in combat seeing as they would be required to build to be a bit more resistant to critical damage. Honestly crit damage has been on the decline especially in pvp since year 3 and it has been a welcome counter to the long lasting tank/healing meta thats existed the last 3 years. Players in groups have little to fear from gank blades if they are sticking together. So I would argue that out of the major buffs removed from oakensoul in pts major force deserves to be reinstated so at to continue to help pve players and for pvp players I’m sorry just build a bit more crit res into your builds and you will be fine. For solo players it doesn’t matter you will always struggle when outnumbered and unfortunately you are prime targets for gankers anyways.

CameraBeardThePirate

Uh no. Major force is too strong to have 100% uptime on. There's a reason it's so hard to get.

xylena_lazarow

It was a serious problem in PvP where it barely benefitted normal PvP builds with their 20-30% crit, but was a significant enabler for degenerate instakills on gank builds. The others I'm more ambivalent about, but I'm glad this one is gone.

Suligost

One big no, not while DK and Cloak exist in this game.

Alchimiste1

no

Mr_Stach

I don't mind Major Force having more sources. BUT. 100% Uptime on a Mythic is WAAAAY too strong.

FENGRUSH

Love downplaying how much damage X does so please please please add it back to Y.

It's not really a convincing argument.

xaraan

No, Oakensoul is overtuned on live and if I was going to change only two buffs, that would be one of them.

TechMaybeHic

Nope. That's one of the 2 buffs they absolutely had to nerf off it.

Wuuffyy

Return some of the major buffs, geez y’all overnerfed the heck outta this. #chiselsnothammers

DrSlaughtr

There's a reason why it's hard to access. Oak gives you more crit than shadow mundus at all times, passively for free. It's too much. Minor is acceptable because that's what I can access via skills.

jaws343

A full set only provides it at 33% uptime and somehow the conclusion from that, adding it at 100% uptime onto a 1 piece mythic, that also adds a bunch of other buffs, is that it is not strong. It is incredibly strong, and entirely not needed on a 1 piece with so many other buffs.

Also, one of the new sets will allow you to get 100% major force uptime. You just have to run a 5 piece set. So you can still get Major force, and you can stack with Minor force.

lronclaw

Kindly pogger off

WrathOfInnos

Major Force is pretty strong solo, but in groups I think it's more efficient to use ults that provide the same buff (Warhorn, Resto Ult or anything with Saxlheel). I don't see it as a large balance issue to have it on a mythic along with a significant curse (like removing a skill bar and 2 weapon slots). It does make one-shot gank builds more annoying, but those could be balanced independently from Oakensoul.

That being said, I think Minor Force does make more sense on this mythic. One bar builds do not have space for something like Barbed Trap or Accelerate, so they need this buff somewhere (although the new set can provide it to the whole group). Oakensoul users may still be getting Major Force from group members, which does not require their skill slots, and makes it less critical on the mythic.

Baconlad

I disagree with OP on major...it's too much on crit PvP builds. And now as light armor one bar build my medium armor set for rings and weapons can be something something other than tsogvins.

I picked up pillar of nirn for example...plus in group setting where ur damage more important I can still get major courage from other players.

My trials dummy build on live without minor crit damage buff is 65k. There's just not enough slots to get minor crit damage.

Turtle_Bot

No. There are only 2 buffs that need to be removed or reduced from its current live version (and I say this as someone who has ran this on many builds). Those are force and heroism.

The rest of the buffs could have been left alone (yes even berserk and courage) and then add slayer and aegis and it would have been fine.

The amount of damage potential provided by those 2 buffs alone, each outstrip every other buff in the game for damage provided (even berserk and slayer and probably even the new 80% empower) and that is why they are so rare to find and hard to keep up.

merpins

I'd rather have the return of major berserk and major heroism (for pve only). Minor force sucks since the new set is coming out that's kinras but for force, and if it's a popular DPS set (which it might be), Minor Force will become a common group buff just like minor berserk. But I'd be happy with major berserk and heroism in pve only.

nejcn001

hell no

Hotdog_23

As a straight solo PVE build Major Force is fine on the Oak ring and will be missed on those builds. PVP it is just to much. Shame ZOS is changing it for people and builds that it was meant to help. Those people/builds will still be stronger next patch with the Oak ring then without, just not as much as now.

Stay safe

Kory

If anything Major Courage instead of Major Force.

Norith_Gilheart_Flail

It's PVE vs PVP'er on this forum, and it's pretty clear to peg who fits into what category.

WrathOfInnos

Minor Heroism would probably be an ok choice if it were at all balanced with other named minor buffs. There's no easy way for damage builds to get the buff (those potions and ridiculousness expensive). Unfortunately 1 ult every 1.5s is just weak, giving only 0.66 ult/s. Major Heroism is 2 ult/s and feels appropriately impactful. Minor should follow the typical pattern and give half of the Major buff, resulting in 1 ult/s. This would be a 50% buff from the current Minor Heroism, and a 50% nerf from the Major Heroism of last patch.

Kory wrote: »

If anything Major Courage

I agree with this. Anyone using a 1-bar build is giving up 452 Weapon and Spell Damage from a back bar infused berserker enchant. Providing Major Courage with 430 Weapon and Spell Damage makes more sense than Minor's 215. This would also help players that struggle to find the Olorime circle in groups, where Yolnahkriin's buff is effortless.

martinhpb16_ESO

No, hate this p2w gated cr*p

Norith_Gilheart_Flail

It's not P2W. If you aren't buying the expansions, are you even playing the same game? or do people expect the same gameplay features without paying a cent?

merpins

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Uh no. Major force is too strong to have 100% uptime on. There's a reason it's so hard to get.

My one-bar Warden does over 50k dps on the 6m dummy. It uses Sea Serpent's Coil and not Oakensoul. If I switch to Oakensoul, the same build with only minor changes (ex removing bird of prey and barbed trap from the bar for better skills, using tripots instead of weapon power pots) does 38k dps on the 6m dummy. Oakensoul is obviously undertuned when you can do more dps without the oakensoul ring on a one bar build.

ToRelax

merpins wrote: »

My one-bar Warden does over 50k dps on the 6m dummy. It uses Sea Serpent's Coil and not Oakensoul. If I switch to Oakensoul, the same build with only minor changes (ex removing bird of prey and barbed trap from the bar for better skills, using tripots instead of weapon power pots) does 38k dps on the 6m dummy. Oakensoul is obviously undertuned when you can do more dps without the oakensoul ring on a one bar build.

Sea Serpent is one of the most stat dense mythics, almost purely focused on damage, and comes with a heavy drawback (which happens to have zero effect on a dummy). Oakensoul adds some defense and a ton of sustain on top of damage. It's meant to be easy to play, not provide the greatest potential. Not a good comparison.

Goldtistic

I would just change the Courage, Slayer, and Aegis to their respective major versions. This is if the ring even needs a buff to bounce back, I'm on xbox so not entirely caught up with how u35 is going but lots of vas2's are requiring oakensoul. Major Force is a bit too strong of a buff to put back, but minor force is extremely common and somewhat underwhelming. What a strange situation. I'd prefer they keep it slightly underperforming than over, as oaken pvp and oaken trials are some of the most boring things I've experienced.

Quethrosar

how in the world does sea serpent help on a dummy when you need to take damage for it to work ?

merpins

.

Quethrosar wrote: »

how in the world does sea serpent help on a dummy when you need to take damage for it to work ?

1. You can calculate the damage increase. That increase is about 14% with 100% uptime.
2. You can start a duel and have a friend smack you with a light attack every 10 seconds.

ToRelax wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

My one-bar Warden does over 50k dps on the 6m dummy. It uses Sea Serpent's Coil and not Oakensoul. If I switch to Oakensoul, the same build with only minor changes (ex removing bird of prey and barbed trap from the bar for better skills, using tripots instead of weapon power pots) does 38k dps on the 6m dummy. Oakensoul is obviously undertuned when you can do more dps without the oakensoul ring on a one bar build.

Sea Serpent is one of the most stat dense mythics, almost purely focused on damage, and comes with a heavy drawback (which happens to have zero effect on a dummy). Oakensoul adds some defense and a ton of sustain on top of damage. It's meant to be easy to play, not provide the greatest potential. Not a good comparison.

Lol. It grants Major Berserk and Major Courage with a 40% snare. You know what else granted Major Berserk and Major Courage? Oakensoul before the nerf. Oakensoul now grants minors, + Minor Slayer, minor force, minor heroism... Problem is, all of its buffs are easy to get on a one-bar build. It is a good comparison since those two mythics are similar in effect, and even shared some same effects before the nerf. And Oakensoul should let you do comparable if not better dps on a one bar build than any other one bar build. That's the intent behind the item, otherwise it wouldn't have the drawback it comes with. If you can do the same DPS with a one bar build without the ring while simultaneously getting most if not all the buffs the ring gives, then the ring is useless. And it's even more useless than that because you can do significantly more dps, get most of the buffs the ring grants, + many major buffs, without that ring without even trying to make a one-bar build; because guess what? My Warden wasn't intended to be a one-bar build! I wasn't trying to make it a one bar build, it just ended up as one. My backbar has AOE for trash mobs, but my front bar can do trash mobs almost as good as my front.

I'd say Oakensoul is a bad item now. The demographic it's made for can do better without it, and that's pretty sad when they actually needed help, only for that help to be nerfed into the ground.

xDeusEJRx

Goldtistic wrote: »

I would just change the Courage, Slayer, and Aegis to their respective major versions. This is if the ring even needs a buff to bounce back, I'm on xbox so not entirely caught up with how u35 is going but lots of vas2's are requiring oakensoul. Major Force is a bit too strong of a buff to put back, but minor force is extremely common and somewhat underwhelming. What a strange situation. I'd prefer they keep it slightly underperforming than over, as oaken pvp and oaken trials are some of the most boring things I've experienced.

I'd rather they make a new buff specifically for oakensoul that mirrors major force. No reason it needs to have "major force" when you can just make "oakensoul crit" or whatever fancy name they want to apply to it that only increase crit damage against monsters. I feel they added in pve buffs that only affect monsters for a reason, no reason for them to add buffs that cross from PVE to PVP. Same with berserk, etc etc. I originally wanted them to give oakensoul major slayer over major berserk because I felt that pve only buffs made sense when it's intent is for helping people in PVE. And it really didn't need buffs that work outside of PVE(thank corporate greed for this).

I feel if they ever make "PVE mythics" or mythics designed for mythics that they don't need to have buffs that cross from PVE to PVP. If the intention is PVE just give it named buffs that only work against monsters, period.
Which is why I don't think major berserk, major force, major heroism, all should not come back. I'd much rather see them incorporate a new effect that only works in PVE.

I mean it's not like they don't introduce new proc effects with unique buffs all the time with new sets. I don't see why they don't do the same with this mythic item.
Oh wait, corporate greed like I mentioned earlier

edward_frigidhands

I don't think that will be a very good idea for the balance and health of the game.