What the Heck is happening?

r3play81

Kind a new to ESO PvP and I'm finding it very frustrating. I Don't understand why in a game where you average 22-28k health as a DPS and then most skills hit for over 3k-6k and can crit for 8k or more, its like 1 shot 2 shot 3 shot dead. There is no fun in that, no time to react. On top of that I don't know if people are glitch exploiting or what but how dose one hit me with 2 heavy attacks and 3 ability attacks in the blink of an eye? I'm full health then dead in one second and kill feed said I was hit 6 times?? I have never experienced PvP in any game like this before. Any tips?

xylena_lazarow

It's a hard PvP to get into. Try running at least 30k hp with 1 survival set and 1 damage set. The Oakensoul mythic is extremely strong if you have access to it. If you are on PC, the addon Combat Metrics will help you actually understand what is hitting you and when, since death recaps and game performance are often janky.

divnyi

^ this is what I'm talking about when I say that PvE and PvP experience doesn't match - DPS matters in PvE, overall toughness required to be alive is low lower in PvE. If ZOS wants to make PvP accessible to ppl without PvP-specific builds, damage should go down like x1.5 times from what we have atm (at least), and healing is even more than that.

Speaking on your situation, which skills were in recap? Maybe procs, like Caluurion or Selene?

Heavy attack and skill happen in the same second. Procs trigger in the same second, but burst procs all have some ~1s interval to react, which is still very fast if you were stunned by first hit (either heavy attack from sneak or Incapacitating Strike/Surprise Attack will stun). Best you can do is break free asap and block+dodge asap, together with burst heals.

Xylena is right, you should stack HP and armors. Most kills in PvP is because of burst, with delayed skills and procs packed in several seconds+stun. No matter how good you are, you will die to some combos unless you have passable amount of HP.

VaranisArano

You're new. That's okay! PvP and PvE are very different. Here's some things to consider.

In PVE, mobs can't crit. In PVP, enemy players can. You should probably be wearing impenetrable armor to increase your crit resistance.

22-28k health is respectable in PVE. In PVP, that is very squishy for anything other than a bomber or a ganker. You want a decent amount of health and armor resistances. (Now, some players will advise that you should eschew defensive builds as a new player so that you don't crutch on it as you learn to play. My experience as a newbie was I needed a pretty good cushion of health and tankiness in order to live long enough to figure out what I was doing wrong. Your mileage may vary.)

In PVE, healing tends to be reactive. A boss gets in a big hit, you heal up, and keep on fighting. In PVP, the enemy isn't going to let you recover. If you fall into execute range, you're dead. So Healing and Buffing needs to be proactive. You need Heals over Time to save you from executes and Buffs ticking constantly, preferably even before the fight starts. This is why you may see players buff up before the fight or even PVPers standing around in a keep may start throwing their buffs. It's all proactive.

In turn, in PVE your damage output tends to be pretty constant. In PVP, you need to be more reactive. If your opponent is buffed up and blocking, it's a bad idea to blow your full offensive rotation on their turtled defense. On the flip side, if you can pressure them or catch them in a vulnerable spot, that's the moment to burst them down with a series of abilities or amp up the pressure with your DOTs.

Some of what you are seeing is lag. Other parts might be combos from skills with different timings.

Mostly it's going to take practice to learn the basic rhythms of PVP combat: healing and buffing proactively, and attacking reactively. You'll improve the more you practice!

CompM4s

Keep in mind that you should not use the same build for both pve and pvp. Fortunately eso added the armory system so you can save builds. I highly recommend using that feature.

BazOfWar

Well its all good and well encouraging new players to wear 1 defensive set and one damage set but in all said and done there is definitely something askew in pvp.

Here is just one example!

There is a player in Cyrodill no proc campaign that can tank 5+ people for literally ages, had seemingly unlimited sustain, crazy heals and yet can still dish out huge amounts of damage that can 3 shot you. This player is exactly the same on every class he plays, and this is only 1 example.

Now I know there are skilled players but if you build defensively your 100% going to have to sacrifice some damage. There is definitely something going on in pvp, cheats, exploits, macros, I dunno but some people are very dubious.

Rohamad_Ali

Sometimes I wonder if we are even fighting real people in the game. How many are running AI now? How many are testing AI?
After watching hundreds of AI videos I'm not sure anything on the internet is human anymore.

But to answer your thread, The system is broken bad here. Has been. It was never this bad at release. Who knows whos doing the math for the updates here.

Dem_kitkats1

I don't want to be a Debbie Downer, but you're starting PvP in a very tough meta OP. There is a lot of high damage/burst at the moment, so you're absolutely right about small reaction windows. Yes, as others have said 30k+ health is standard, and you'll need a defensive set. That being said, experienced players are also dying within 2 shots, or in a couple of combos atm, so even with that advice it will be still be tough out there. If you want to get a better feel for the environment and the combat, while having a better chance to stay alive, I would suggest actually building a PvP healer. You'll feel less pressure trying to out dps someone, you'll learn how to play defensively, and you'll still be very valuable to your allies.

For healing sets I would recommend:
Spell Power Cure
Rallying Cry
Gossamer

For Defensive sets:
Pariah
Buffer of the Swift
Trial by Fire

I'm sure other's would have other ideas to help you out as well if you wanted to go that route. But if you manage to stick it out and improve in this meta, you'll be able to survive anything!

Thecompton73

The netcode for communication between server to client then to server is really bad in ESO. People aren't cheating to cast more abilities than they're supposed to be able, it's that the difference between what one player sees on screen can sometimes be a full 2-3 seconds behind what another players sees on their end. So if you have the better connection and initiate an attack you can get 3 GCD's of damage in before the other player sees the first animation start on their screen.
It all has to do with a choice the Devs made a few years back to change something in the server architecture that allowed for such dysnch's because it made the combat in large encounters appear to play much smoother.

fred4

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

I don't want to be a Debbie Downer, but you're starting PvP in a very tough meta OP. There is a lot of high damage/burst at the moment, so you're absolutely right about small reaction windows. Yes, as others have said 30k+ health is standard, and you'll need a defensive set. That being said, experienced players are also dying within 2 shots, or in a couple of combos atm, so even with that advice it will be still be tough out there.

This, 100%. I'm a veteran and I can't even figure out how to build, other than to join the crowd, wear Oakensoul, and kill or be killed. Rallying Cry is a good set. Using 1H + Shield, Bloodspawn, costly Minor Heroism potions and getting to your ultimate as quickly as possible may be a good idea. I also think 30K health in CP PvP isn't even enough anymore, unless you are a nightblade. I'm on 34K on my DK and stamsorc now, and I would have more if it wasn't compromising my overall build so much.

MEBengalsFan2001

I find more players who state they are good in pve or pvp are using a Macro box for the controller it allows them to press one button but get three abilities to trigger. It’s allow them to execute more in a shorter window. It can be done without the device but it takes a toll on your hands over time. Add to it, the device has a built in aim bot making it harder to lose los.

As others have said, some players build tank like characters and than can kill someone with two or three hits. PVP does need a revamp and imo adjusting stats by role would be a step in that direction.

etchedpixels

BazOfWar wrote: »

There is a player in Cyrodill no proc campaign that can tank 5+ people for literally ages, had seemingly unlimited sustain, crazy heals and yet can still dish out huge amounts of damage that can 3 shot you. This player is exactly the same on every class he plays, and this is only 1 example

There are builds for this but you are also not going to do much damage with such a build against an experienced PvP player or build. It's the PvP version of taunting, someone who is very hard to kill but basically harmless used to pull multiple opposition players out of the real fight and string them along. It's called 'troll tanking' for a reason.

Typically they are wearing sets like batallion defender and cyrodiil's crest plus stacking high resistances and resource regeneration often coupled with the totally ott oakensoul ring and a piece of magma incarnate, although there are better 2 bar builds. Oakensoul has accidentally made these builds it bit more viable for actual damage. The change to Oakensoul in the next update ought to fix it.

That said you shouldn't be getting 3 shotted - because you shouldn't anywhere near them after the first two but should be dodge rolled, recovering and blocking. At least on NA. PC-EU is just broken and will probably stay completely broken until they do the server upgrade there.

katorga

fred4 wrote: »

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

I don't want to be a Debbie Downer, but you're starting PvP in a very tough meta OP. There is a lot of high damage/burst at the moment, so you're absolutely right about small reaction windows. Yes, as others have said 30k+ health is standard, and you'll need a defensive set. That being said, experienced players are also dying within 2 shots, or in a couple of combos atm, so even with that advice it will be still be tough out there.

This, 100%. I'm a veteran and I can't even figure out how to build, other than to join the crowd, wear Oakensoul, and kill or be killed. Rallying Cry is a good set. Using 1H + Shield, Bloodspawn, costly Minor Heroism potions and getting to your ultimate as quickly as possible may be a good idea. I also think 30K health in CP PvP isn't even enough anymore, unless you are a nightblade. I'm on 34K on my DK and stamsorc now, and I would have more if it wasn't compromising my overall build so much.

I shoot for 35K or higher health, lowish mag/stam pools, and high weapon damage.

Next patch with the healing nerfs that likely won't work. Next patch, I'll probably go all-in damage bomber or NB ganker, or a massive health debuff tank using the new dispelling set.

DigiAngel

Welcome to the dismal world of ESO PVP! It's a place where sportsmanship, fair play, and balance are long gone My honest advice? Play a different game for PVP. Barring that:

• Get in a group.
• If you plan on playing solo, be a NightBlade.

That's literally it. There are glimmers of a LOT of fun in Cyro if you manage to get in a group, or even just run with one, but you have to make sure you're maxed on horse speed and stamina, otherwise you'll do a LOT of slow moving to places, only to have all the action finished by the time you get there.

Expect to waste a LOT of time and resources as well. And if you're low CP level, not an ESO+ member, or haven't bought the latest and greatest chapers well.....expect more frustration as the people THAT have are already going to have an advantage.

If you're in IC or Cyro just for those miserable keys you got stuck with during the latest event, sneak your way in, and out...but expect to get killed a least a couple times. If you're trying for leads, well....again, a group or maybe...MAYBE go in during off peak times when it's more of a ghost town then usual.

I wish I had more positive things to say but.....PvP transforms ESO from entertainment to work.

Suligost

r3play81 wrote: »

Kind a new to ESO PvP and I'm finding it very frustrating. I Don't understand why in a game where you average 22-28k health as a DPS and then most skills hit for over 3k-6k and can crit for 8k or more, its like 1 shot 2 shot 3 shot dead. There is no fun in that, no time to react. On top of that I don't know if people are glitch exploiting or what but how dose one hit me with 2 heavy attacks and 3 ability attacks in the blink of an eye? I'm full health then dead in one second and kill feed said I was hit 6 times?? I have never experienced PvP in any game like this before. Any tips?

I'm afraid that that's what ESO currently is. Spammy dmg stacking becasue healing is stacked of DMG so, it's not worth using anything defensive. Best defense is block and heal, no set gonna replace it. 7k armor? 10% mitigation out of 8k dmg = 7200. Wow such tankiness, wow so worth it.