Nightblade Shadowy Cloak has ruined PvP

DigiAngel

There. I said it. Got it off my chest. After seeing almost all my kills come from NB...yea...I see it now. From a high level this is what I've been seeing:

• NB ganking from out of no where. Yes you can slot Magelight to not stun, no it doesn't really help all that much.
• NB decloaking using Toxic Barrage (at 27K no less)

This are just 2. Now....I know a LOT of folks might say "well just counter with...". No. Stop. You CAN NOT COUNTER something you don't know is coming. Period. Unless you're running around popping off MageLight or Hunter every ten seconds (not really feasible) it's just NOT happening.

Right now this is the bulk of the gameplay I see in BattleGrounds, Cyrodil, and Imperial City. I have a NightBlade....really good farm build, but I just can't bring myself to have some uber ganker build for it. Just seems....I dunno unsporting.

I wish I had suggestions...but honestly I have none. Not to mention...wouldn't matter anyways I suspect

divnyi

DigiAngel wrote: »

I have a NightBlade....really good farm build, but I just can't bring myself to have some uber ganker build for it. Just seems....I dunno unsporting.

Go for it. Play what you preach. You'll see how other players counter you (and they will), might help your gameplay on other classes.

baselesschart

Gankers are doing what gankers do. Yes they are annoying, but nightblades themselves aren't broken. There is a flipside to ganking, take away their ability to stealth and they are easy prey. Granted this requires surviving their initial burst which is unlikely.

The real issue are the sets they use. Caluurions regularly hits for 10-15k which is far too much damage to be dealt by a set imo. Especially one with such an easy proc condition.

Udrath

It’s not shadowy cloak it’s ZOS who had no foresight when they gave everyone base 1000 weapon and spell damage and better sustain, then changed all sets to have no distinction between being for stamina or magicka. Then after that introduce a few mythic items that boost damage even more, and eventually introduce the one ring to rule them all. Damage and healing are sky high. ZOS is worried about light and heavy weaving...

PVP has been fun for me though with the One Ring on all classes but nowhere as fun as every chapter and patch before Greymoore. Everyone actually had to play their class, including stealth users, where you would get the opportunity to use a stealth pot or mage light. Now they hit just as hard as everyone else, but because it’s from stealth you can really see how overtuned set scaling and damage has become.

DigiAngel

divnyi wrote: »

DigiAngel wrote: »

I have a NightBlade....really good farm build, but I just can't bring myself to have some uber ganker build for it. Just seems....I dunno unsporting.

Go for it. Play what you preach. You'll see how other players counter you (and they will), might help your gameplay on other classes.

Ugh....I suppose you're right....<sigh>. Imma feel like SUCH A JERK playing a gankblade. I can't count the times I've been ganked while opening a chest or getting a shard. I've literally said out loud at those time: "really...mom must be proud".

TechMaybeHic

Better have crit resists. With the ring right now, crit values are sky high. Mostly it's the same ones that were dangerous before just more dangerous. Most are dead meat if they don't get a kill before friendlies see them

OBJnoob

Honestly I kinda agree I’ve always felt that going invisible was a little lame. I understand it takes skill— I understand very well, because it’s a skill I’m not good at. Everquest… WoW… always had rogue type classes that borderline one shot people. I’ve always thought it was a less than sportsmanlike tactic. I don’t think you can remove it from the game though it’s just what the player base wants.

I’ve been running higher hp than I was a patch or two ago so I guess nightblades aren’t bothering me as much at the moment. And it isn’t because of nightblades I’m running higher hp either it’s because of magdks.

Whenever I hear they are over performing I hear it mentioned alongside sets like caluurions and oakensoul. So if we make changes let’s focus on that, I think, as otherwise I believe nightblades are rather underwhelming.

CompM4s

Magelight and has a short range and usually nbs shade away before cloak, out of range. Detect pots can work if timed right, but those become expensive for most players.

I also dont like how dots dont tick in cloak. To me its kind of dumb that nbs can spam cloak and exit combat at will. Fortunately most players that main a nb that use cloak are terrible at pvp, and usually die quick.

Ominer

CompM4s wrote: »

Magelight and has a short range and usually nbs shade away before cloak, out of range. Detect pots can work if timed right, but those become expensive for most players.

I also dont like how dots dont tick in cloak. To me its kind of dumb that nbs can spam cloak and exit combat at will. Fortunately most players that main a nb that use cloak are terrible at pvp, and usually die quick.

A lot of DOTs now tick in cloak actually, it's a terrible change but because 95% of nightblades are Xv1ing or Ganking i don't think most have even realised yet.

it's made me take a break from the game for a bit

divnyi

DigiAngel wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

DigiAngel wrote: »

I have a NightBlade....really good farm build, but I just can't bring myself to have some uber ganker build for it. Just seems....I dunno unsporting.

Go for it. Play what you preach. You'll see how other players counter you (and they will), might help your gameplay on other classes.

Ugh....I suppose you're right....<sigh>. Imma feel like SUCH A JERK playing a gankblade. I can't count the times I've been ganked while opening a chest or getting a shard. I've literally said out loud at those time: "really...mom must be proud".

I mean, many things can annoy others. Getting zerged, endless stalling, streak kiting, getting bombed etc etc.

NBs exist. Everyone who play PvP should understand that and build around that, or respect the possibility of getting oneshot.

OnGodiDoDis

divnyi wrote: »

DigiAngel wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

DigiAngel wrote: »

I have a NightBlade....really good farm build, but I just can't bring myself to have some uber ganker build for it. Just seems....I dunno unsporting.

Go for it. Play what you preach. You'll see how other players counter you (and they will), might help your gameplay on other classes.

Ugh....I suppose you're right....<sigh>. Imma feel like SUCH A JERK playing a gankblade. I can't count the times I've been ganked while opening a chest or getting a shard. I've literally said out loud at those time: "really...mom must be proud".

I mean, many things can annoy others. Getting zerged, endless stalling, streak kiting, getting bombed etc etc.

NBs exist. Everyone who play PvP should understand that and build around that, or respect the possibility of getting oneshot.

Getting one-shot is unhealthy gameplay. No other class has the power to delete health bars in less than two seconds. Other classes have to do a full rotation. You can see other classes coming and prepare for them (heals and buffs up). As other people are saying, NB isn't the problem. It's the sets that synchronize so well with it.

Militan1404

Nightblade is easy mode right now, its so easy to gank now its not even funny anymore. And caliurion needs a adjustment. But crit damage is overal good now becouse few players actually use impen anymore so thats also a thing to think about.

Militan1404

And people say things like magelight, camo hunter and detect potions, thats never been a problem for me at least becouse of short range and duration, and if they use detect potions, its just good becouse then they wont get any health back from potions at least. And what other class do you need to slott a skill or a potion just to conter?

DrSlaughtr

Militan1404 wrote: »

And people say things like magelight, camo hunter and detect potions, thats never been a problem for me at least becouse of short range and duration, and if they use detect potions, its just good becouse then they wont get any health back from potions at least. And what other class do you need to slott a skill or a potion just to conter?

Detect pots are useful against Vamp 4.

People carry immovable pots to block CCs

There are two examples.

divnyi

OnGodiDoDis wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

DigiAngel wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

DigiAngel wrote: »

I have a NightBlade....really good farm build, but I just can't bring myself to have some uber ganker build for it. Just seems....I dunno unsporting.

Go for it. Play what you preach. You'll see how other players counter you (and they will), might help your gameplay on other classes.

Ugh....I suppose you're right....<sigh>. Imma feel like SUCH A JERK playing a gankblade. I can't count the times I've been ganked while opening a chest or getting a shard. I've literally said out loud at those time: "really...mom must be proud".

I mean, many things can annoy others. Getting zerged, endless stalling, streak kiting, getting bombed etc etc.

NBs exist. Everyone who play PvP should understand that and build around that, or respect the possibility of getting oneshot.

Getting one-shot is unhealthy gameplay. No other class has the power to delete health bars in less than two seconds.

Every class can gank. Proof:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyVZZUNsqP4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZSafywSwTg

Cadbury

divnyi wrote: »

OnGodiDoDis wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

DigiAngel wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

DigiAngel wrote: »

I have a NightBlade....really good farm build, but I just can't bring myself to have some uber ganker build for it. Just seems....I dunno unsporting.

Go for it. Play what you preach. You'll see how other players counter you (and they will), might help your gameplay on other classes.

Ugh....I suppose you're right....<sigh>. Imma feel like SUCH A JERK playing a gankblade. I can't count the times I've been ganked while opening a chest or getting a shard. I've literally said out loud at those time: "really...mom must be proud".

I mean, many things can annoy others. Getting zerged, endless stalling, streak kiting, getting bombed etc etc.

NBs exist. Everyone who play PvP should understand that and build around that, or respect the possibility of getting oneshot.

Getting one-shot is unhealthy gameplay. No other class has the power to delete health bars in less than two seconds.

Every class can gank. Proof:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyVZZUNsqP4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZSafywSwTg

No one likes to be reminded of that. As far as some are concerned, only NB is the "evil" class, others are innocent, saintly classes.

ShadowProc

[snip] So many counters. They even buffed revealing flare. As mentioned above. To gank as quickly as you are describing you build with zero defense.
Use one of the 20 counters instead of yelling for nerfs.

[edited for baiting]

Priyasekarssk

Nightblade counters are complete garbage. It’s not learn to play issue. Balance issue.

ShadowProc

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Nightblade counters are complete garbage. It’s not learn to play issue. Balance issue.

Detect pot. Sea coil. Revealing flare. Caltrops. Sentry set. Etc. are not garbage. [snip]

[edited for baiting]

xylena_lazarow

ShadowProc wrote: »

Detect pot. Sea coil. Revealing flare. Caltrops. Sentry set. Etc. are not garbage. [snip]

It's polarizing gameplay. If you're the only one trying to use these tools in a small fight, the NB often still seems untouchable and you've just wasted a big chunk of your build. In larger fights with a zerg's worth using these tools, it's the NB that ends up helpless. Also using mobility buffs to get out of detection range is a skill that varies widely among NB players. I enjoy stealth and counter-stealth gameplay but there always needs to be a chance to respond, even if the window is small.

[edited to remove quote]

Skoomah

- Just run more than 31k hp and you’ll survive most nb burst combos.
- Then you gotta make sure you have equally potent damage to take them out before they can cloak back up again or something to reveal them so you can lay your damage in.
- Move fast to avoid giving them perfect positioning on you.

I see too many players with not enough hp or counter punch damage in their builds, then go on the forums and cry about it…

Priyasekarssk

Skoomah wrote: »

- Just run more than 31k hp and you’ll survive most nb burst combos.
- Then you gotta make sure you have equally potent damage to take them out before they can cloak back up again or something to reveal them so you can lay your damage in.
- Move fast to avoid giving them perfect positioning on you.

I see too many players with not enough hp or counter punch damage in their builds, then go on the forums and cry about it…

Skooma I agreed . You at least 2500 cri resistance to work.
Some nooobs here asking to use skills. I don’t why zos s biased in nerfing Nightblade cloak. It’s long overdue. It’s destroyed pvp population.

Priyasekarssk

ShadowProc wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Nightblade counters are complete garbage. It’s not learn to play issue. Balance issue.

Detect pot. Sea coil. Revealing flare. Caltrops. Sentry set. Etc. are not garbage. [snip]

[snip] No skill is counter to Nightblade. All you mentioned are complete garbage. Only thing works is detect pods . But that too will not provide health recovery. Zos is that much biased do Nightblade. Zos favoring Nightblade is what destroyed the game. [snip]

[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

xDeusEJRx

I don't think shadowy disguise is bad. BUT i do think they should add detect pots as a type of potion to buy from siege merchants. The alliance health pots grant invisibility but there's no counter against that provided as well

ShadowProc

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Detect pot. Sea coil. Revealing flare. Caltrops. Sentry set. Etc. are not garbage. [snip]

It's polarizing gameplay. If you're the only one trying to use these tools in a small fight, the NB often still seems untouchable and you've just wasted a big chunk of your build. In larger fights with a zerg's worth using these tools, it's the NB that ends up helpless. Also using mobility buffs to get out of detection range is a skill that varies widely among NB players. I enjoy stealth and counter-stealth gameplay but there always needs to be a chance to respond, even if the window is small.

And I don’t enjoy most other play styles. Tower humping. Tammy players. Shielded players. Etc. it’s another niche. High risk high reward. Catch one he’s dead don’t catch him your most likely dead.

[edited to remove quote]

Cadbury

ShadowProc wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Detect pot. Sea coil. Revealing flare. Caltrops. Sentry set. Etc. are not garbage. [snip]

It's polarizing gameplay. If you're the only one trying to use these tools in a small fight, the NB often still seems untouchable and you've just wasted a big chunk of your build. In larger fights with a zerg's worth using these tools, it's the NB that ends up helpless. Also using mobility buffs to get out of detection range is a skill that varies widely among NB players. I enjoy stealth and counter-stealth gameplay but there always needs to be a chance to respond, even if the window is small.

And I don’t enjoy most other play styles. Tower humping. Tammy players. Shielded players. Etc. it’s another niche. High risk high reward. Catch one he’s dead don’t catch him your most likely dead.

Who's Tammy? And is she single?

[edited to remove quote]

ShadowProc

Skoomah wrote: »

- Just run more than 31k hp and you’ll survive most nb burst combos.
- Then you gotta make sure you have equally potent damage to take them out before they can cloak back up again or something to reveal them so you can lay your damage in.
- Move fast to avoid giving them perfect positioning on you.

I see too many players with not enough hp or counter punch damage in their builds, then go on the forums and cry about it…

This. So many don’t want to change thier builds or adapt or quite frankly use counters in the game. They buffed reveal. [snip]

But no, god forbid you sacrifice 1/10 skills to counter. Nothing to see here Zos. It’s the usual “I don’t want to use expository counters in the game” threads.

[edited for baiting]

ShadowProc

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Nightblade counters are complete garbage. It’s not learn to play issue. Balance issue.

Detect pot. Sea coil. Revealing flare. Caltrops. Sentry set. Etc. are not garbage. [snip]

[snip] No skill is counter to Nightblade. All you mentioned are complete garbage. Only thing works is detect pods . But that too will not provide health recovery. Zos is that much biased do Nightblade. Zos favoring Nightblade is what destroyed the game. [snip]

[snip]

Play a NB and get detected with flare or magelight. Then tell me it’s garbage.

[snip]
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

Militan1404

ninjagank wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

And people say things like magelight, camo hunter and detect potions, thats never been a problem for me at least becouse of short range and duration, and if they use detect potions, its just good becouse then they wont get any health back from potions at least. And what other class do you need to slott a skill or a potion just to conter?

Detect pots are useful against Vamp 4.

People carry immovable pots to block CCs

There are two examples.

Why? Then you have to slot a magicka potion just to fight one class, as far as i knew there is no stamina detect pots

Immovable potion duration is short, and you most likely getting ganked when you are not immovable

EF321

Militan1404 wrote: »

ninjagank wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

And people say things like magelight, camo hunter and detect potions, thats never been a problem for me at least becouse of short range and duration, and if they use detect potions, its just good becouse then they wont get any health back from potions at least. And what other class do you need to slott a skill or a potion just to conter?

Detect pots are useful against Vamp 4.

People carry immovable pots to block CCs

There are two examples.

Why? Then you have to slot a magicka potion just to fight one class, as far as i knew there is no stamina detect pots

Immovable potion duration is short, and you most likely getting ganked when you are not immovable

There are stamina detect pots, you need chaurus egg for that. Stam+detect and crit or immovable as third effect.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

Do play that nb build and you will quickly learn how hard it is to gank. I tried training two people to play like me and both failed to reach my lethality. Gave them my exact build and even helped them farm the gear. Its not just big damage + sneak = infinities free kills. It takes a lot of skill and patience to gank the best players in Cyrodiil. Not only most of the traditional skills, but stealth relevant skills as well. Might get away with ganking newbs with big damage + cloak, but the goods players will require Sun Tzu tier strategy.

First guy I tried to train could not learn how to pick targets or when to engage. He would see me kill someone and then think he could do it too. He couldn't grasp that not every person standing still is fair game or that not every enemy is out of stealth. I would tell him "don't attack that guy he is really good" and he would just suicide into him. He ended up rage quitting eso pvp.

Second guy I trained was much better. Not completely suicidal and he was figuring out when to watch and when to kill. However he couldn't master the burst combo. To me it feels very easy, but after watching two trainees consistently fail to even deal 1/2 the burst I can do with the same build I know its not too easy. Got to practice your combos 1000s of times until it becomes muscle memory. Thats true on any class, but with glass cannon nb if you fail thats one extra person trying to chase you down and kill you. You also have far less defense, Hp, heals, and sustain so that person you just failed to kill is going to be a big problem if cloak n roll doesn't work.

Neither of these two could get the hang of escaping either. Even if they managed to kill someone they would often get killed immediately afterwards. Cloak is incredibly buggy and if you aren't used to its jank you will die a lot until you figure out its quirks. Also can't just press cloak and think your safe, both these guys thought that. You have to lose the people chasing you and if you aren't used to playing stealth classes in any game this can prove challenging.