Reports from the Field: Deathmatch ruined by Objective players

SkaraMinoc

Hi and welcome to my new series "Reports from the Field".

Today we're discussing the elusive Deathmatch game mode and how much your PvE teammates love it.

The Story

I finally get to play Deathmatch and the map is Foyada Quarry, the best Mag Sorc battleground in the game. It's a rare opportunity to play this map and game mode (2.5% chance) so I'm super excited and ready to have a blast. I've got great heals for my teammates and there's plenty of room to move around.

It's my time to shine.



Not so fast, champ. See that DK over there? He's about to one-shot both of your teammates.



After enduring 5 straight minutes of teammates dying, it's time to admit defeat.



What would this field report be without a lovely chat?



Watch out guys, he's Rank General (41) on his main!



The End

Yakidafi

Go out and shine then! Drag your team up that hill. Keep dragging even if every part of your pony sorc body hurts.

SkaraMinoc

Yakidafi wrote: »

Go out and shine then! Drag your team up that hill. Keep dragging even if every part of your pony sorc body hurts.

We were down 285 points 5 minutes into the game. At that point you switch to meme builds like DC lava pull + Negate.

SkaraMinoc

In fairness, it goes both ways. Some gems from the past week.

xDeusEJRx

Just another day in battlegrounds. But this is a "healthier state" for BG's according to zenimax online studios. lol

darvaria

This is the funniest chat ever. "Run Away" "We're Doomed" "Die Noobs" LOL. I'll keep watching your posts for the fun.

I'm on the opposite side of what you want. But I agree with you. Both of these chat posts illustrate what is wrong with having no Death Match que.

I go in with a tanky build that has a burst heal but is meant for capping flags and running relics. Like you I try to change out after a death. Problem is I can go 5 or 6 BG's in a row with 0 deaths. To me "Death Match" means not dying. We had 3 healers in a DM and scored like 60 points. Something like 3 deaths the whole time.

I hope ZOS seriously looks at this post.

Cheers,
Darv

SkaraMinoc

darvaria wrote: »

This is the funniest chat ever. "Run Away" "We're Doomed" "Die Noobs" LOL. I'll keep watching your posts for the fun.

Lol thank you. This started off as a post about Deathmatch vs Objective but many people ended up liking the little comic slide. If I get more material I'll post another

Sylosi

LOL, "competitve deathmatch", you can certainly see why this is a roleplaying game.

SkaraMinoc

Sylosi wrote: »

LOL, "competitve deathmatch", you can certainly see why this is a roleplaying game.

Since we don't have ranked small-scale PvP, competitive Deathmatch is the next closest thing. On PC NA, there's organized tournaments that happen throughout the year that involve premades from multiple Battlegrounds guilds.

If ZOS gave us ranked arenas then we could move that competition out of Deathmatch. Can't believe that's not a thing yet.

helios777

Literally around 75% of the problems on the BG forums would go away if ZoS gave us back the Deathmatch only que option back lol

Dem_kitkats1

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Sylosi wrote: »

LOL, "competitve deathmatch", you can certainly see why this is a roleplaying game.

Since we don't have ranked small-scale PvP, competitive Deathmatch is the next closest thing. On PC NA, there's organized tournaments that happen throughout the year that involve premades from multiple Battlegrounds guilds.

If ZOS gave us ranked arenas then we could move that competition out of Deathmatch. Can't believe that's not a thing yet.

You can't have competitive ranked arenas with so many imbalances, no population, and no way to separate supports. The only way to do that is to have normalized gearing and stats for all players. Otherwise you're going to have severely stacked teams like now regardless of MMR.

darvaria

Keep posting the chat logs!

helios777 wrote: »

Literally around 75% of the problems on the BG forums would go away if ZoS gave us back the Deathmatch only que option back lol

This ^

darvaria

Ok was just in a domination match. We were 100 points ahead and 2 ppl left because "half the team running from fights". You can't win if you hang around fighting both sides and don't move to next capture point. Ending up with a tie 480/480 because we played with only 2 ppl for about 5 minutes. Both sides really agree on what they want: Flag games or DM. It's a pretty simple solution.

Rhaegar75

I would be so happy with a more dynamic MMR that can at least to put players in sensible brackets!!

divnyi

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Sylosi wrote: »

LOL, "competitve deathmatch", you can certainly see why this is a roleplaying game.

Since we don't have ranked small-scale PvP, competitive Deathmatch is the next closest thing. On PC NA, there's organized tournaments that happen throughout the year that involve premades from multiple Battlegrounds guilds.

If ZOS gave us ranked arenas then we could move that competition out of Deathmatch. Can't believe that's not a thing yet.

You can't have competitive ranked arenas with so many imbalances, no population, and no way to separate supports. The only way to do that is to have normalized gearing and stats for all players. Otherwise you're going to have severely stacked teams like now regardless of MMR.

Nonsense. Yes we can. If all 3 teams are meta premades, the game is competitive. No matter how bad are the imbalances, you can have competition. And imbalances aren't even as bad, since we don't have exactly the same team compositions running at highest MMR.

Dem_kitkats1

divnyi wrote: »

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Sylosi wrote: »

LOL, "competitve deathmatch", you can certainly see why this is a roleplaying game.

Since we don't have ranked small-scale PvP, competitive Deathmatch is the next closest thing. On PC NA, there's organized tournaments that happen throughout the year that involve premades from multiple Battlegrounds guilds.

If ZOS gave us ranked arenas then we could move that competition out of Deathmatch. Can't believe that's not a thing yet.

You can't have competitive ranked arenas with so many imbalances, no population, and no way to separate supports. The only way to do that is to have normalized gearing and stats for all players. Otherwise you're going to have severely stacked teams like now regardless of MMR.

Nonsense. Yes we can. If all 3 teams are meta premades, the game is competitive. No matter how bad are the imbalances, you can have competition. And imbalances aren't even as bad, since we don't have exactly the same team compositions running at highest MMR.

Yeah if all teams are meta premades (ie some form of normalization) then yes, it's competitive. You can't guarantee that in this game unless you're organizing teams. Or are you suggesting that only premades would be allowed into the arenas? If imbalances and team composition doesn't mean much then it's no different than now. I guess you could slap on a leaderboard to see how meta builds and classes do against eachother, but that furthers my point that it can't be called competitive if there isn't standardization.

OBJnoob

While I agree that standardization would lead to the purest competitive atmosphere I’m not sure I want that to happen. Part of the skill in this game is theorycrafting and yes even going to farm and transmute gear. If you don’t get to bring your individually designed character to a battleground then it’s just suddenly become some mini game hasn’t it? To me it has.

Plus builds would be woefully similar and here’s one reason why: what’s the plan to standardize mythics and monster helms? You’d have to basically disable them… or allow people that haven’t acquired something yet to have access to it, and I don’t like either of those two solutions.

divnyi

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Sylosi wrote: »

LOL, "competitve deathmatch", you can certainly see why this is a roleplaying game.

Since we don't have ranked small-scale PvP, competitive Deathmatch is the next closest thing. On PC NA, there's organized tournaments that happen throughout the year that involve premades from multiple Battlegrounds guilds.

If ZOS gave us ranked arenas then we could move that competition out of Deathmatch. Can't believe that's not a thing yet.

You can't have competitive ranked arenas with so many imbalances, no population, and no way to separate supports. The only way to do that is to have normalized gearing and stats for all players. Otherwise you're going to have severely stacked teams like now regardless of MMR.

Nonsense. Yes we can. If all 3 teams are meta premades, the game is competitive. No matter how bad are the imbalances, you can have competition. And imbalances aren't even as bad, since we don't have exactly the same team compositions running at highest MMR.

Yeah if all teams are meta premades (ie some form of normalization) then yes, it's competitive. You can't guarantee that in this game unless you're organizing teams.

That comment you were replying to mentioned BG guild making a tournament. This happened in PC EU too, all 3 teams queue and wait for the game where they are all popped at the same time.

Is that a good method? Well it's the best we have given that ZOS don't want to give us proper ranked.

Or are you suggesting that only premades would be allowed into the arenas?

I mean what is group q? Why would you go solo to group q? Two duos generally fare good also.

If imbalances and team composition doesn't mean much then it's no different than now. I guess you could slap on a leaderboard to see how meta builds and classes do against eachother, but that furthers my point that it can't be called competitive if there isn't standardization.

The game is competitive if all players in the game is on approx the same level of strength.
Problem today is that weaker players get into games with PvP veterans.
What's the solution to bring in competition? Ranked.
Not enough players? Go 3x3 instead of 4x4x4, that's twice smaller group so twice more games can happen.

Standartization has nothing to do with competition. It never happened in other games - you don't simplify what you have to make it competitive, you play the game as a whole.

RealLoveBVB

Had a deathmatch yesterday and it ended as boring as every other deathmatch with high tier players: 3 balls, all with 35k+ hp neutralizing themselves with healing eachothers butt.

At the end of the match each team had around 10 kills. The "mvp" of the winning team had a awesome kd of 0/1/0, but 4,1M healing.

We had to play the whole duration of 15 minutes.

So now I am asking the same question here as I did ingame: WHO is enjoying such matches?

Objectives ftw. They are strategic, they are fun and especially they don't waste 15 minutes of my life.

BASIClyGOD

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Had a deathmatch yesterday and it ended as boring as every other deathmatch with high tier players: 3 balls, all with 35k+ hp neutralizing themselves with healing eachothers butt.

At the end of the match each team had around 10 kills. The "mvp" of the winning team had a awesome kd of 0/1/0, but 4,1M healing.

We had to play the whole duration of 15 minutes.

So now I am asking the same question here as I did ingame: WHO is enjoying such matches?

Objectives ftw. They are strategic, they are fun and especially they don't waste 15 minutes of my life.

I would rather have this than a one-sided blowout. It forces teamwork and promotes ball group mechanics like positioning and coordinated bursting instead of just zerging the other teams down one player at a time. Makes the win much more satisfying and rewarding.

xDeusEJRx

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Had a deathmatch yesterday and it ended as boring as every other deathmatch with high tier players: 3 balls, all with 35k+ hp neutralizing themselves with healing eachothers butt.

At the end of the match each team had around 10 kills. The "mvp" of the winning team had a awesome kd of 0/1/0, but 4,1M healing.

We had to play the whole duration of 15 minutes.

So now I am asking the same question here as I did ingame: WHO is enjoying such matches?

Objectives ftw. They are strategic, they are fun and especially they don't waste 15 minutes of my life.

Nothing strategic about getting in a game with a 50k hp tank who grabs the chaosball or sits on flags that you can't kill at all or someone bringing their speed build to flip flags and run or run the relic fast or run around the map with chaos ball.

How exactly do I compete against these players who run builds just to cheese the objective to win? I would rather have a 15 minute game where I have a chance to win than have a game end in less than 5 minutes because I come across players like this. None of these players stick around when they see it's deathmatch

Miracle19

helios777 wrote: »

Literally around 75% of the problems on the BG forums would go away if ZoS gave us back the Deathmatch only que option back lol

Too smart of an idea

darvaria

The two groups, Objective players and Death Match players, just don't mix. TBH, if players aren't playing objectives, I don't help them. So the game finishes quickly. You'll have 2 players on other teams capping.

Get rid of chaosball. Just have Death Match, Domination, & Relic.

darvaria

I am only going to play objectives. ZOS, you can not MAKE me play Death Match. Even if the game isn't DM, some players want it to be. So if my team choses "DM", they end up losing miserably. Dying from teams that ball up. Just let them go back to DM.

darvaria

I guess I'm one of the ppl that ruins Battle Grounds. This was from domination. One player wanted us to only focus on killing a well known streamer. Two ppl went and tried but of course were one shot so came back to capping. You can see one player on the red team also tried to "play objectives". I don't have ppl irl saying "I hate you" and I'm not going to engage in an environment that subjects me to this.

This isn't fun. Probably will just give up going. You don't fit in if you tank up and try to follow the objectives. I had a game yesterday where a guy with literally half my score accused me of losing the game because I was capping flags and we came in 2nd. I held one flag whole game until a team of 3 came and took it, of course w/o killing me. He screamed non stop at me after game until I finally just went offline as usual. If you have 1 other team member playing objectives, you can usually do it. I'm tired of this in about 30% of the games, players bitching because you follow the objectives.

darvaria

I never hear this irl so I'm not going to listen to it here. In dialog before he screamed whole game "Kill <streamer>. How would a game be for a streamer, who was trying to cap something and 6 players trying to kill him the whole came. He got very kills but 0 deaths. Let these ppl go to death match only. Maybe for the random, rng but let them que for DM.

DarthCuddlefluff

If you separated BGs into casual and competitive you would see more of the competitive people in casual than competitive [snip]

[edited for baiting]

PhoenixGrey

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Had a deathmatch yesterday and it ended as boring as every other deathmatch with high tier players: 3 balls, all with 35k+ hp neutralizing themselves with healing eachothers butt.

At the end of the match each team had around 10 kills. The "mvp" of the winning team had a awesome kd of 0/1/0, but 4,1M healing.

We had to play the whole duration of 15 minutes.

So now I am asking the same question here as I did ingame: WHO is enjoying such matches?

Objectives ftw. They are strategic, they are fun and especially they don't waste 15 minutes of my life.

MMR is the problem here and not game mode.

Objective modes might make you feel like you own that ***. !!!!

But in reality no one except you is really interested in them games.

PhoenixGrey

OBJnoob wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

So now I am asking the same question here as I did ingame: WHO is enjoying such matches?

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

The only pvp game mode which involves combat is DM so yeah we are correct.

Even PVE has more combat compared to objective pvp.

[snip]
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

DarthCuddlefluff

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

So now I am asking the same question here as I did ingame: WHO is enjoying such matches?

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

The only pvp game mode which involves combat is DM so yeah we are correct.

Even PVE has more combat compared to objective pvp.

[snip]

My friend I have no idea what you're talking about. There is so much combat in objective game modes.

[edited to remove quote]

jtm1018

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Hi and welcome to my new series "Reports from the Field".

Not so fast, champ. See that DK over there? He's about to one-shot both of your teammates.

Best play by play reporting in bg.

Please more reports like this.