heavy attack flame

Rlacoste

nerf nerf nerf for pete's sakes. what the heck man? 30k-40k heavy attack? I realize you want new players to enjoy themselves but.... 5 skills on one bar doesn't require much skill at all. So let us give them 40k heavy attacks?

duckdown

Yea man i feel u.. feels like this game is so broken. 30k heavy attack from a mag dk who can vanish like nb. And zos think pvp is fine as it is. LOL

divnyi

duckdown wrote: »

a mag dk who can vanish like nb.

🤨

DrSlaughtr

divnyi wrote: »

duckdown wrote: »

a mag dk who can vanish like nb.

🤨

Vamp 4 sprint and invis pots to proc vamp2.

divnyi

Vamp4 doesn't let you "vanish like NB", it's after full 2 gcds wasted on sprint. It is okay-ish at getting into the fight, it's absolutely horrible at getting out.

Pot is ok, but it's just one attempt at invis in 45 seconds (which can be broken by some random AoE hit), and red pot as unstoppable makes much more sense than escape tool.

React

divnyi wrote: »

Vamp4 doesn't let you "vanish like NB", it's after full 2 gcds wasted on sprint. It is okay-ish at getting into the fight, it's absolutely horrible at getting out.

Pot is ok, but it's just one attempt at invis in 45 seconds (which can be broken by some random AoE hit), and red pot as unstoppable makes much more sense than escape tool.

This would be true if any source of damage reset the timer on the vamp sprint passive, but only things that actually break cloak reset the timer. I.e dots, status effect procs, etc. Things like direct damage ranged and melee abilities or light attacks do not reset the timer. In reality, these heavy attack gankers are usually hitting you from 20+ meters away, and they can begin sprinting away far quicker than you can locate and approach them. Not to mention that they're usually in corrosive and will take no damage if you do manage to pressure them instantly, and they have coag on their bar for easy 10-15k burst heals. There are several on PC/NA that use 3 swift/celerity aswell, and still consistently hit me with 29-32k heavy attacks while I have 3.3k+ crit resist (normal resists don't matter because of corrosive).

The vamp sprint passive shouldn't even be in the game to begin with. It is a terrible mechanic that just encourages people to run away from fights. Wish they'd replace it with some sort of useful combat related passive.

ShadowProc

React wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

Vamp4 doesn't let you "vanish like NB", it's after full 2 gcds wasted on sprint. It is okay-ish at getting into the fight, it's absolutely horrible at getting out.

Pot is ok, but it's just one attempt at invis in 45 seconds (which can be broken by some random AoE hit), and red pot as unstoppable makes much more sense than escape tool.

This would be true if any source of damage reset the timer on the vamp sprint passive, but only things that actually break cloak reset the timer. I.e dots, status effect procs, etc. Things like direct damage ranged and melee abilities or light attacks do not reset the timer. In reality, these heavy attack gankers are usually hitting you from 20+ meters away, and they can begin sprinting away far quicker than you can locate and approach them. Not to mention that they're usually in corrosive and will take no damage if you do manage to pressure them instantly, and they have coag on their bar for easy 10-15k burst heals. There are several on PC/NA that use 3 swift/celerity aswell, and still consistently hit me with 29-32k heavy attacks while I have 3.3k+ crit resist (normal resists don't matter because of corrosive).

The vamp sprint passive shouldn't even be in the game to begin with. It is a terrible mechanic that just encourages people to run away from fights. Wish they'd replace it with some sort of useful combat related passive.

Like I get how frustrating it can be. Happens to me. But they also melt in one hit most of time. I don’t see anything wrong if some one wants to go all glass.

Some people like to gank. Some like to 1vx. Some like to ball group. Some like to tower hump. And some don’t know what they want.

Everyone should be able to play how they want. Shouldn’t balance around a particular playstyle because something actually kills you.

I watch your stream and you are constantly outnumbered solo and you die like once an hour if that.

React

ShadowProc wrote: »

React wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

Vamp4 doesn't let you "vanish like NB", it's after full 2 gcds wasted on sprint. It is okay-ish at getting into the fight, it's absolutely horrible at getting out.

Pot is ok, but it's just one attempt at invis in 45 seconds (which can be broken by some random AoE hit), and red pot as unstoppable makes much more sense than escape tool.

This would be true if any source of damage reset the timer on the vamp sprint passive, but only things that actually break cloak reset the timer. I.e dots, status effect procs, etc. Things like direct damage ranged and melee abilities or light attacks do not reset the timer. In reality, these heavy attack gankers are usually hitting you from 20+ meters away, and they can begin sprinting away far quicker than you can locate and approach them. Not to mention that they're usually in corrosive and will take no damage if you do manage to pressure them instantly, and they have coag on their bar for easy 10-15k burst heals. There are several on PC/NA that use 3 swift/celerity aswell, and still consistently hit me with 29-32k heavy attacks while I have 3.3k+ crit resist (normal resists don't matter because of corrosive).

The vamp sprint passive shouldn't even be in the game to begin with. It is a terrible mechanic that just encourages people to run away from fights. Wish they'd replace it with some sort of useful combat related passive.

Like I get how frustrating it can be. Happens to me. But they also melt in one hit most of time. I don’t see anything wrong if some one wants to go all glass.

Some people like to gank. Some like to 1vx. Some like to ball group. Some like to tower hump. And some don’t know what they want.

Everyone should be able to play how they want. Shouldn’t balance around a particular playstyle because something actually kills you.

I watch your stream and you are constantly outnumbered solo and you die like once an hour if that.

Thanks for tuning in! Hope you find the stream entertaining.

For starters, I generally die much more than that this patch as the uncounterable damage has gone through the roof. Regardless, justifying imbalanced mechanics by saying how little they kill me is a moot point - I have over 12,000 hours on the game with probably about 10,000 spent pvping, mostly solo.

They are usually in corrosive, and thus do not die in anywhere near one hit. They can pop corrosive, execute the gank, and sprint to go stealth before corrosive expires if they fail to kill you. They can then try again 15-20 seconds later when their oakensoul-juiced ulti gen allows them to have their corrosive back. All from the safety of a 20-30m distance, at no risk whatsoever to themselves.

I'm all for damage. I have never once not advocated for higher damage in the game, when that damage comes from balanced and logical sources. Someone heavy attacking you with an inferno staff from stealth and instantly killing you from 30 meters away is not "fair" or "balanced" damage. Zenimax have even gone so far as to nerf heavy attacks multiple times over the years - this is simply an instance they have overlooked and neglected to patch for an extended period if time.

It's totally fine to not want to balance the game around one playstyle - but they should be balancing the game. This build, as well as many other setups that the oakensoul ring enables, are not balanced in any regard.

*I know that this was possible before oakensoul, but it is exponentially stronger in every regard with oakensoul and there are for more people doing it now.

divnyi

React wrote: »

This would be true if any source of damage reset the timer on the vamp sprint passive, but only things that actually break cloak reset the timer. I.e dots, status effect procs, etc.

Um, dots don't hit cloak, direct damage AoEs do. And generally anyone has some. Or reveal skill. Or reveal pot.
It takes one AoE hit to pull from that cloak, and 2s of sprint to start that thing again. And you can also stun the sprint to stop it, or immobilize in case no immobilize immune was cast.

Basically once you get close, it's easier to not let go than fighting NB, that can cloak instantly each gcd instead of cloaking after 2 gcds, effectively same speed as NB would miss 2 gcds of skills and cloak only after that.

It's not as safe as NB ganks. It's just more effective - you don't need to run if you killed at enemy.

DrSlaughtr

divnyi wrote: »

Vamp4 doesn't let you "vanish like NB", it's after full 2 gcds wasted on sprint. It is okay-ish at getting into the fight, it's absolutely horrible at getting out.

Pot is ok, but it's just one attempt at invis in 45 seconds (which can be broken by some random AoE hit), and red pot as unstoppable makes much more sense than escape tool.

I never said it did. Two seconds do go by very quickly, however. And and that's why they also carry invisible potions.

ZiggyTStardust

It's stupid that this heavy attack gank is back. Zos obviously didn't like it 2 patches ago when they nerved all the heavy attack sets but seemingly overlooked Storm Master (which is being used for the heavy attacks now as far as I know) and vamp toggle. Now that we have oakensoul the heavy attacks can go back to the values they were a few months ago.
In some ways oakensoul makes it easier since you don't need to play with your health from toggle

divnyi

Isn't main problem here is the Sergeant's Mail set? It looks like it does specifically what it states, and it doesn't do any good except for this specific interaction.

Artim_X

No joke, yesterday during a AvA fight at Ash I got randomly cooked twice in a five minute interval by two different fire ball bois

MEBengalsFan2001

React wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

Vamp4 doesn't let you "vanish like NB", it's after full 2 gcds wasted on sprint. It is okay-ish at getting into the fight, it's absolutely horrible at getting out.

Pot is ok, but it's just one attempt at invis in 45 seconds (which can be broken by some random AoE hit), and red pot as unstoppable makes much more sense than escape tool.

This would be true if any source of damage reset the timer on the vamp sprint passive, but only things that actually break cloak reset the timer. I.e dots, status effect procs, etc. Things like direct damage ranged and melee abilities or light attacks do not reset the timer. In reality, these heavy attack gankers are usually hitting you from 20+ meters away, and they can begin sprinting away far quicker than you can locate and approach them. Not to mention that they're usually in corrosive and will take no damage if you do manage to pressure them instantly, and they have coag on their bar for easy 10-15k burst heals. There are several on PC/NA that use 3 swift/celerity aswell, and still consistently hit me with 29-32k heavy attacks while I have 3.3k+ crit resist (normal resists don't matter because of corrosive).

The vamp sprint passive shouldn't even be in the game to begin with. It is a terrible mechanic that just encourages people to run away from fights. Wish they'd replace it with some sort of useful combat related passive.

Those numbers seem low. I was getting blasted by 36-42K heavy attacks. I couldn't even use my armor buff and it became so bad I simply didn't log in much since this patch hit consoles for PVP. I've decided to go finish some zones I haven't fully explored as this mod the PVP experience isn't fun or engaging. It is down right broken.

xDeusEJRx

I haven't seen any heavy attack DK's on console.
Like ever, but I've seen heavy attack nightblades. And lots of them. I ran into a 3 man group of heavy attack nightblades last night who just wait for you to turn your back to fight other players and they all heavy attack u at the same time for 15k,20k,30k+ damage

This is the "fair" and "balanced" people are preaching that zos has created with current high isle meta. How exactly do people enjoy this pvp at all unless you're zerging? I feel if you don't have a decent sized group with you, pvp right now is pretty impossible and terribly unfun

Well time to go back to ravenwatch it seems

goldenarcher1

Maybe OP just a tad.

DaisyRay

... People have been doing high heavy attacks for like ever. I don't think anything zos does will change that.