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A case against Ravenwatch's current ruleset
Pepegrillos
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TLDR:
1. Population-wise, the no-proc ruleset experiment in Ravenwatch has failed. Ravenwatch is a dead campaign.
2. In the short term, a dead no-cp campaign affects new player experiences and retention negatively. In the long run, it affects the game and the pvp population negatively.
3. The no-proc ruleset partly explains the current state of Ravenwatch.
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4. Ravenwatch's current ruleset should be reverted back to a regular ruleset.
This post aims to argue against Ravenwatch's current ruleset and in favor of a reversal to a regular ruleset. In short, in favor of turning it into a no-cp version of the main campaign.
I write this with NA's situation in mind. No idea if some of what I will say also adequately describes whatever is happening in the EU version of the campaign.
I also assume that Zenimax has allocated server resources already and that, therefore, they are not willing to spin up a 5th regular ruleset no-cp Cyrodiil campaign. If they were willing to add a new, regular no-cp campaign, keeping Ravenwatch as is wouldn't hurt anyone. (Unless a new campaign entails splitting resources and lag across the board).
Two points. First, a bit about the state of affairs. The Ravenwatch campaign is absolutely dead. It's by far the less populated max-level Cyro campaign. However, this has not always been the case. Ravenwatch was lively right before the initial performance tests were conducted a while back, followed right after by the introduction of the first version of the no proc-ruleset. Ever since the campaign has turned into a fiesta with barely any attendees.
The second point has to do with the role of a no-cp campaign and the experience of new pvpers. With the recent hardware upgrades, Cyro once again became a point of interest for new and returning players. I have seen quite a few low-cp players running around in pvp environments and even a few new streamers.
The issue is that as things stand, new players have no suitable Cyrodiil campaign to play. Queueing into the main cp-enabled campaign throws new, low-cp pvpers into the hands of players that can effectively leverage the CP differences against them. In brief, it turns new players into cannon fodder. For obvious reasons, the usual result is that new players end up avoiding Cyrodiil. Once these new players take into account how long it takes to level CP up to a point where they can be competitive, things might get even worse. Some might end up quitting altogether.
In normal circumstances, the alternative for new players would be to queue for the no-cp campaign. However, that campaign is dead. It's even comparatively dead during primetime, so that alternative is for all effects unavailable. One of the main attractions of the game is out of reach for new players unless they are willing to become easy prey for months.
Besides the significant improvements for new and low-cp players that an active Ravenwatch campaign would provide, there are a few beneficial side effects that should be considered. A relatively lively no-cp campaign would probably entice pvpers that are currently languishing in the main campaign's queue. In that sense, it would help the main campaign and the players that enjoy CP Cyrodiil by spreading some of its population elsewhere. This is pure speculation, but considering the number of people that played in Ravenwatch pre-tests, I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation. I know there are pvpers out there that prefer a no-cp environment, just not a dead one.
As I said, I have assumed that this is largely a zero-sum matter. In ideal circumstances, Zenimax would create an additional campaign. But I doubt that will happen. Given how things are going, I think the best that could happen is to revert Ravenwatch's ruleset.
1. Population-wise, the no-proc ruleset experiment in Ravenwatch has failed. Ravenwatch is a dead campaign.
2. In the short term, a dead no-cp campaign affects new player experiences and retention negatively. In the long run, it affects the game and the pvp population negatively.
3. The no-proc ruleset partly explains the current state of Ravenwatch.
---
4. Ravenwatch's current ruleset should be reverted back to a regular ruleset.
This post aims to argue against Ravenwatch's current ruleset and in favor of a reversal to a regular ruleset. In short, in favor of turning it into a no-cp version of the main campaign.
I write this with NA's situation in mind. No idea if some of what I will say also adequately describes whatever is happening in the EU version of the campaign.
I also assume that Zenimax has allocated server resources already and that, therefore, they are not willing to spin up a 5th regular ruleset no-cp Cyrodiil campaign. If they were willing to add a new, regular no-cp campaign, keeping Ravenwatch as is wouldn't hurt anyone. (Unless a new campaign entails splitting resources and lag across the board).
Two points. First, a bit about the state of affairs. The Ravenwatch campaign is absolutely dead. It's by far the less populated max-level Cyro campaign. However, this has not always been the case. Ravenwatch was lively right before the initial performance tests were conducted a while back, followed right after by the introduction of the first version of the no proc-ruleset. Ever since the campaign has turned into a fiesta with barely any attendees.
The second point has to do with the role of a no-cp campaign and the experience of new pvpers. With the recent hardware upgrades, Cyro once again became a point of interest for new and returning players. I have seen quite a few low-cp players running around in pvp environments and even a few new streamers.
The issue is that as things stand, new players have no suitable Cyrodiil campaign to play. Queueing into the main cp-enabled campaign throws new, low-cp pvpers into the hands of players that can effectively leverage the CP differences against them. In brief, it turns new players into cannon fodder. For obvious reasons, the usual result is that new players end up avoiding Cyrodiil. Once these new players take into account how long it takes to level CP up to a point where they can be competitive, things might get even worse. Some might end up quitting altogether.
In normal circumstances, the alternative for new players would be to queue for the no-cp campaign. However, that campaign is dead. It's even comparatively dead during primetime, so that alternative is for all effects unavailable. One of the main attractions of the game is out of reach for new players unless they are willing to become easy prey for months.
Besides the significant improvements for new and low-cp players that an active Ravenwatch campaign would provide, there are a few beneficial side effects that should be considered. A relatively lively no-cp campaign would probably entice pvpers that are currently languishing in the main campaign's queue. In that sense, it would help the main campaign and the players that enjoy CP Cyrodiil by spreading some of its population elsewhere. This is pure speculation, but considering the number of people that played in Ravenwatch pre-tests, I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation. I know there are pvpers out there that prefer a no-cp environment, just not a dead one.
As I said, I have assumed that this is largely a zero-sum matter. In ideal circumstances, Zenimax would create an additional campaign. But I doubt that will happen. Given how things are going, I think the best that could happen is to revert Ravenwatch's ruleset.
6
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dinokstrunz✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pretty much the same on PCEU, it's maybe populated for about an 1 hour or so but then dies off very fast, the campaign is still extremely unplayable when ball groups invade the campaign. No Proc has become a failed stale testing ground and should be reverted asap.3 -
xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Pick one single PvP ruleset for Cyro and BGs, and actually balance it. Maybe leave a "below cp160" mode for actual new players. It has failed badly to try organize PvP modes based on procs, cp, and faction swapping.PC/NA || CP/Cyro || RIP soft caps3 -
OBJnoob✭✭✭✭✭
✭All I do is play in ravenwatch, for 3 or 4 years if I were to guess. This is Xbox NA mind you but hey we're people too. Rsvenwatch has always been dead. Wondering if the no proc thing made it deader is kinda a waste of time in my opinion... It was DEAD. It was dead when it was called Sotha Sil and I'm sure it was dead before that also.
If you want to create a place for new players to play and not get rekt then find a way to take the twinks out of the under 50 campaign.
If you want no cp but with procs play bgs. There is literally a place for everyone and you're trying to remove something unique to give someone something they already have.
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J18696✭✭✭✭✭Yeah raven has pretty much been a husk ever since they applied the no proc ruleset to it population nose dived compared to what it use to reach daily.
They came out and said after those tests also that the proc removal had 0 impact on server lag so I'm not sure why they even considered keeping it.
Since if they paid attention majority of players enjoyed the no proc at first but after about a week nearly everyone was tired of how it made the game stale everyone wearing the same build more than usual
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CaperGuy✭✭✭I used to be of the opinion that I didn’t want procs back in RW because I didn’t feel like being hit by Dark Convergence, Plaguebreak, etc all the time but with the no cp campaign seeming to be mostly only tanky/overly healy Templar’s, DKs or Necros with one or two Sorcs in tight stacks with only a few set combos that can compete, maybe it is time for procs to return. I don’t think I’ve seen an enemy Nightblade in months for example
. The builds that are successful in there tend to feel very similar.
Mind you, the Oakensoul ring works in there so that may mix things up.
I wouldn’t be super against having the campaign locked either.Characters:
Trivalaur - Breton Templar(Healer)2 -
Dirt_Rooster✭✭✭The only proc sets I see people complaining about since they made procs scale off of stats... are convergence and plaguebreak. Guess what, procs aren't OP as crap anymore to the point where everyone is running around with 4 of them and stacking 40k+ health in no-cp. Go play a bg (pre-oakensoul ***) and you would have seen some fairly healthy builds balance-wise compared to how things have been on the past. There really isn't a case for these rules in my opinion, and there hasn't been since they were made permanent.2
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xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
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Yea "procs" have never been the problem, just a handful of individual sets over the years, like Sloads or Viper in addition to the ones you mentioned. It's a shame they've put so much effort into what's turned out to be a bad read on player feedback, and it's ironic that a pure stat set now "plays the game for you" more than any proc ever has.Dirt_Rooster wrote: »The only proc sets I see people complaining aboutPC/NA || CP/Cyro || RIP soft caps1 -
xDeusEJRx✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dirt_Rooster wrote: »The only proc sets I see people complaining about since they made procs scale off of stats... are convergence and plaguebreak. Guess what, procs aren't OP as crap anymore to the point where everyone is running around with 4 of them and stacking 40k+ health in no-cp. Go play a bg (pre-oakensoul ***) and you would have seen some fairly healthy builds balance-wise compared to how things have been on the past. There really isn't a case for these rules in my opinion, and there hasn't been since they were made permanent.
Stam sorc bow builds with savage werewolf, Caluurion gank nightblades with selenes, healers saving people from death with earthgore, chokethorn, etc would like to have a word with you.
Proc meta has never gone away and never will, people will cheese you down even with procs not having insane tooltips and it's funny people try to play it off as if proc pvp isn't incorporated in 90% of builds nowadaysEdited by xDeusEJRx on 28 June 2022 18:01Solo PvP'er PS5 NA player
90% of my body is made of Magblade2 -
Dirt_Rooster✭✭✭Dirt_Rooster wrote: »The only proc sets I see people complaining about since they made procs scale off of stats... are convergence and plaguebreak. Guess what, procs aren't OP as crap anymore to the point where everyone is running around with 4 of them and stacking 40k+ health in no-cp. Go play a bg (pre-oakensoul ***) and you would have seen some fairly healthy builds balance-wise compared to how things have been on the past. There really isn't a case for these rules in my opinion, and there hasn't been since they were made permanent.
Stam sorc bow builds with savage werewolf, Caluurion gank nightblades with selenes, healers saving people from death with earthgore, chokethorn, etc would like to have a word with you.
Proc meta has never gone away and never will, people will cheese you down even with procs not having insane tooltips and it's funny people try to play it off as if proc pvp isn't incorporated in 90% of builds nowadays
Everything you just listed is not even a big issue anymore. Selenes and caluurion can be easily dodged, chokethorn can get interrupted, earthgore has rarely ever saved anyone from my damage, savage werewolf can just get cleansed. All these things have counters. Sure, you can say that some builds can still get pretty cheesy, and I would agree with you. But in general, now that all these sets scale off of stats, the big issues with them are largely resolved. Not having to deal with convergence, plaguebreak, or anything that you mentioned, is not worth being locked into the same build with the same 4-5 sets. It's killed the campaign completely, and there's no going back to any kind of healthy population until the rules are removed.1 -
xDeusEJRx✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dirt_Rooster wrote: »Dirt_Rooster wrote: »The only proc sets I see people complaining about since they made procs scale off of stats... are convergence and plaguebreak. Guess what, procs aren't OP as crap anymore to the point where everyone is running around with 4 of them and stacking 40k+ health in no-cp. Go play a bg (pre-oakensoul ***) and you would have seen some fairly healthy builds balance-wise compared to how things have been on the past. There really isn't a case for these rules in my opinion, and there hasn't been since they were made permanent.
Stam sorc bow builds with savage werewolf, Caluurion gank nightblades with selenes, healers saving people from death with earthgore, chokethorn, etc would like to have a word with you.
Proc meta has never gone away and never will, people will cheese you down even with procs not having insane tooltips and it's funny people try to play it off as if proc pvp isn't incorporated in 90% of builds nowadays
Everything you just listed is not even a big issue anymore. Selenes and caluurion can be easily dodged, chokethorn can get interrupted, earthgore has rarely ever saved anyone from my damage, savage werewolf can just get cleansed. All these things have counters. Sure, you can say that some builds can still get pretty cheesy, and I would agree with you. But in general, now that all these sets scale off of stats, the big issues with them are largely resolved. Not having to deal with convergence, plaguebreak, or anything that you mentioned, is not worth being locked into the same build with the same 4-5 sets. It's killed the campaign completely, and there's no going back to any kind of healthy population until the rules are removed.
Those are a lot of big if's.
Caluurion selene ganks can be avoided IF you know they're going to gank you. I usually get ganked by gank groups a lot, how exactly do I know 2 nightblades are gonna gank me without a detect pot ready at all times. You don't. Earthgore saves people from my damage all the time, people get bursted and run back to their zerg for earthgore healers to save them and I can do nothing about that. Chokethorn can be interrupted yes but the heal is strong enough to where it's gonna save them most of the time anyway when you're outnumbered. Savage werewolf being cleansed only works on classes with a class cleanse or bar spot available to spare for cleanse. That's not an option when I'm playing magblade which is my main class unless I give up an ability slot just to get purge skill. But I can't afford to give that up on magblade when my damage rotation is already pitiful unless I'm a cloakblade so I can't afford to sacrifice damage just to get a purge.
Proc pvp is just not fun at all for some people which is why people like ravenwatchEdited by xDeusEJRx on 29 June 2022 15:03Solo PvP'er PS5 NA player
90% of my body is made of Magblade2 -
gariondavey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I play bgs, cp cyro/ic, and ravenwatch.
I enjoy super sweaty small scale cp cyro/ic.
I enjoy bgs (a no cp environment but with procs).
I also enjoy large group pvp in ravenwatch (a no cp, no proc environment).
What I think would be more beneficial to promoting better population in ravenwatch would be a redoing of the scoring system.
Ie: your score is scaled either against your population or against enemy populations.
If you own the map and have more players than enemy factions, you don't get lots of points.
If you take the map with a few people but enemy factions have nobody on, you don't get lots of points.
If population has a lot of people on all factions, you get more points.
I don't think altering the gear conditions will bring nearly as much change as making the rule-set in a way that promotes factions to fight opponents, or they don't get many score points.PC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden4 -
phuryousSoul ShrivenCan I assume that the OP doesn’t belong to the AD alliance?
Assuming that the reason why RW is 'dead' at certain points throughout the day being somehow related to no-Procs, is just that, an assumption. I don't know how many times I've heard players coming in to RW to escape all the lag and procs that the 'ball groups' bring to the CP servers. I run in RW regularly and see nightcaps in succession, where the populations don't sync up very much throughout the days M-Th, but come the weekend, healthy populations abound. In my eyes, I feel that the players who do come into RW (the ones remaining after procs were disabled) are less toxic, and more casual but better skilled than the ones I encounter in either of the CP campaigns.
This begs the question to the real reason why players will choose one campaign over the other. Clearly with all things being equal, the overall PvP population prefers Alliance Locks, thus, GH is ALWAYS more populated than BR. Could the reason why more people don't play in RW be due to the lack of an Alliance lock? Having been in RW for quite some time, I do feel that within the last couple of campaigns, there has been an exodus of players (to BR because GH is usually full) mainly from the EP and DC alliances. From what I've seen, this wasn't due to a proc vs no-proc situation, but rather the AD faction consistently having the largest population. This points to the possible reason why I think the RW campaign is viewed as being ‘dead’ from a non-AD-PoV – POPULATION IMBALANCE. You’ll see that the AD alliance has seemingly flourished in the no-cp campaign, but why is that? Now whether you can argue that one faction prefers proc sets over another (which is the assumption on why they leave RW?) is yet to be seen. When all the dust settles, every player in every faction has access to the same classes, races, skills, equipment, etc, so then the ultimate difference just becomes player's (and/or group) skill. Optimal builds will always feel "the same" in ANY campaign mainly because the players will try to use a build that is deemed the best for their class. This behavior is not isolated to the RW campaign.
IMO, new players benefit from the lack of procs due to not being instantly melted the second a battle ensues or being constantly killed by one-shot gank or bomber builds. I feel that they do have a better chance in no-proc Cyro if that's the case the OP is trying to make. In RW, we don't regularly hear about bomb-builds, gank-builds and other PROC builds that generally target the more inexperienced players. Experienced players know not to stack on the flags, ride through NB infested areas solo, and so on, you get my point. A lot of the points the OP is attempting to make can be attributed to ANY of the campaigns.
I don’t feel that this is a proc vs no-proc issue. A mechanism to balance the populations in general, or during peak/off-peak periods in any time zone would have a more effective impact on how PvP is viewed.3 -
malistorr✭✭✭✭I don't like proc sets and don't want to play against people using them. That's the reason why I play in Ravenwatch (big surprise). It's just my personal opinion and it's perfectly fine if others feels differently. I personally think proc sets are cheesy and a "crutch". I think Ravenwatch is the closest thing you can get to people having to use real skill, hand/eye coordination, fast reflexes, and quick thinking to win fights and that's what I like. I agree that there are only so many viable sets in RW and also agree that the Oakensoul ring just increased build diversity. I'd like to see more sets that are non-proc that are also viable for competitive builds. That alone could increase the population in RW at least a bit.1
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dinokstrunz✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't like proc sets and don't want to play against people using them. That's the reason why I play in Ravenwatch (big surprise). It's just my personal opinion and it's perfectly fine if others feels differently. I personally think proc sets are cheesy and a "crutch". I think Ravenwatch is the closest thing you can get to people having to use real skill, hand/eye coordination, fast reflexes, and quick thinking to win fights and that's what I like. I agree that there are only so many viable sets in RW and also agree that the Oakensoul ring just increased build diversity. I'd like to see more sets that are non-proc that are also viable for competitive builds. That alone could increase the population in RW at least a bit.
How does non-proc equate to more skill? Because there's no procs on your recap? Surely the claim of real skill etc is the wrong since there's more telegraphs and enemy procs to keep an eye out for.1 -
malistorr✭✭✭✭I'll agree to disagree. I'm not going to debate this. Play no-proc for a few months and you'll see it's much harder to kill others and takes more skill. I've played both for years.1
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dinokstrunz✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'll agree to disagree. I'm not going to debate this. Play no-proc for a few months and you'll see it's much harder to kill others and takes more skill. I've played both for years.
It's harder to kill players because there's a great lack of decent offensive sets in no proc whilst there's a lot of defensive options in abundance.4 -
WaywardArgonian✭✭✭✭✭Normally I'd agree, but with some of the overtuned builds out there right now, I'm glad there is a place in ESO pvp where I don't have to worry about 40k heavy attacks.
Not saying Ravenwatch doesn't have its share of broken builds, but Gray Host is a bit ridiculous at the moment.PC/EU altaholic | Smallscale & ballgroup healer | Former Empanada of Ravenwatch | @ degonyte in-game | Nibani Ilath-Pal (AD Nightblade) - AvA rank 50 | Jehanne Teymour (AD Sorcerer) - AvA rank 50 | Niria Ilath-Pal (AD Templar) - AvA rank 502 -
neferpitou73✭✭✭✭✭
✭The ruleset of Raven is just a mess honestly. The idea that it's a no-proc campaign is just a falsehood. Unless you think that pariah isn't a proc set, or wild hunt, or hist, or,.... Heck sets with the same proc condition as some of those don't work. Look at Snow treaders vs wild hunt. Proc condition is exactly the same but one works and the other doesn't.
Honestly, I just find the lack of build diversity in Raven makes it boring, and it seems a lot of people do too since the population cratered right after the switch. The only really annoying procs right now are PB and DC which should just be removed from the game anyway.
That said I wouldn't really want to take away no-proc from people who enjoy it.1 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The biggest factor in the decline in Ravenwatch population has been the year-long AD numerical advantage which has lead to most groups from EP and DC simply getting tired of it and leaving.
AD has been better about this recently, but every prime time session begins more or less the same: all scrolls under AD control as well as an AD emp, with EP and DC controlling typically only their tri-keeps (this is the area of improvement because AD used to take and hotly contest even the tri-keeps).
EP and DC then get the experience of playing against superior numbers that are further buffed by all of the scrolls and by the emperor bonus. With this in mind, it is easy to see why most non-AD groups burned out after dealing with this for many consecutive campaigns. This is also why I say that if any group is tired of their current campaign and wants a big challenge that they should come to Ravenwatch and play on EP (or DC - it's just that EP needs the numbers more as they rarely have a presence in prime time).
I don't really want to see proc sets return since I share the same basic evaluation that most of the new meta sets are cheesy and play the game for you - BUT it is also true that the demise of strong offensive proc sets strengthened the advantage of having the numerical advantage in players as there are simply not many efficient ways to deal with overwhelming numbers.
What to do about this? I don't know. I liked one of the above proposals to scale campaign points by how many players are on each faction. Something probably also needs to be done to curb the core "rich get richer" dynamics of Cyrodiil, where controlling more of the map (and scrolls, emp, etc.) makes that side stronger, which makes it easier to take more of the map, etc. Instead, we probably need the opposite, where buffs are given to the outnumbered sides as a means to partially make up for their lack of numbers.
Buffing and making the low-pop mechanics more granular would also be a good move, perhaps something like scaling all AP to the current highest population and then adding +5% AP for every player below that number for the other two sides (e.g. AD is at 60 players, DC is at 40, and EP is 10 means that AD gets +0% AP, DC gets +100% AP, and EP gets +250% AP).0 -
malistorr✭✭✭✭I agree that buffs should be given to the factions with the lower player counts at that time or to who has less of the map or emp keeps. Buffing the faction that already has most of the map and is probably gating the other side (cough EP in Ravenwatch cough) is really a big mistake IMO. For the past few months EP in Ravenwatch has the better numbers or control of most of the map at least 80% of the time. It's so bad that players from other factions login, go to Cryrodiil and look at the map, and leave. They don't even want to try and play because unless you have 5-10 players and go try to take a home keep resource a few of the toxic EP players will be there trying to prevent you from taking anything. Ravenwatch was already barely being played and EP for the past few months have ensured that it will continue to die. They have no interest in 1v1 fights or in the campaign being competitive in any way. They will just zerg you down 8v1 at your home keeps just to get a few hundred AP. It's fine if you want to say that the game is supposed to be played that way because it's a war simulation but Ravenwatch is just about dead now. Congratulations. EP have fun hanging out there alone waiting for a player an hour to kill. I guess that's fun for you. Or you could go to another faction and actually have a challenge and improve your skills. (Which very few of them do)0
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johnicus✭✭✭Easy fix for this, go play in a campaign with proc sets and cp and leave Ravenwatch alone, as far as the "XX always wins and killed the campaign" nonsense, anyone who has been around longer than a year or two knows its cyclic....
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Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If Ravenwatch was all sets, except the broken ones (DC, PB, Caluurion etc) - I would definitely play there.2 -
neferpitou73✭✭✭✭✭
✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »The biggest factor in the decline in Ravenwatch population has been the year-long AD numerical advantage which has lead to most groups from EP and DC simply getting tired of it and leaving.
AD has been better about this recently, but every prime time session begins more or less the same: all scrolls under AD control as well as an AD emp, with EP and DC controlling typically only their tri-keeps (this is the area of improvement because AD used to take and hotly contest even the tri-keeps).
EP and DC then get the experience of playing against superior numbers that are further buffed by all of the scrolls and by the emperor bonus. With this in mind, it is easy to see why most non-AD groups burned out after dealing with this for many consecutive campaigns. This is also why I say that if any group is tired of their current campaign and wants a big challenge that they should come to Ravenwatch and play on EP (or DC - it's just that EP needs the numbers more as they rarely have a presence in prime time).
I don't really want to see proc sets return since I share the same basic evaluation that most of the new meta sets are cheesy and play the game for you - BUT it is also true that the demise of strong offensive proc sets strengthened the advantage of having the numerical advantage in players as there are simply not many efficient ways to deal with overwhelming numbers.
What to do about this? I don't know. I liked one of the above proposals to scale campaign points by how many players are on each faction. Something probably also needs to be done to curb the core "rich get richer" dynamics of Cyrodiil, where controlling more of the map (and scrolls, emp, etc.) makes that side stronger, which makes it easier to take more of the map, etc. Instead, we probably need the opposite, where buffs are given to the outnumbered sides as a means to partially make up for their lack of numbers.
Buffing and making the low-pop mechanics more granular would also be a good move, perhaps something like scaling all AP to the current highest population and then adding +5% AP for every player below that number for the other two sides (e.g. AD is at 60 players, DC is at 40, and EP is 10 means that AD gets +0% AP, DC gets +100% AP, and EP gets +250% AP).
Tbh I think most of the big groups left with proc sets. You used to have LoM, Impact, heck even Tyr and Cutest show up maybe once a week (I even heard a GM or two talk about how they miss Raven). And they were zerg busters, who created interesting fights. AD was just the nail in the coffin because those that stayed couldn't compete with the numbers.Edited by neferpitou73 on 6 July 2022 19:450 -
Pepegrillos✭✭✭✭✭More than a year has passed and this topic is still relevant. Ravenwatch is still dead, leaving pvp players new to the game nowhere to go without getting stomped for eons.Edited by Pepegrillos on 2 January 2024 20:050
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CaperGuy✭✭✭I miss Ravenwatch. Even though I spent countless hours testing sets and trying to fill in the gaps of knowledge for no proc, on Xbox it’s typically just dead, or a handful of trolls gating a dead campaign, or sketchy boosters/etc trading emp titles and whatnot. I’ve spent 90% of my PvP time lately in other places.Characters:
Trivalaur - Breton Templar(Healer)1 -
ItsNotLiving✭✭✭✭Simple response is I’d play in Ravenwatch every campaign if I could use procs stopped playing in it after they changed it.1 -
OBJnoob✭✭✭✭✭
✭I miss Ravenwatch. Even though I spent countless hours testing sets and trying to fill in the gaps of knowledge for no proc, on Xbox it’s typically just dead, or a handful of trolls gating a dead campaign, or sketchy boosters/etc trading emp titles and whatnot. I’ve spent 90% of my PvP time lately in other places.
Every now and then I go back just to see what it's like because I miss it too. Same old same old, unfortunately. There's one alliance online. One group doing one thing. And when you get there to see what's up it isn't a group you might try your hand at Xing it's the same vets thatve been there for years. Showed up just last night to try and defend a keep from like 6 reds. Pewpewed a couple... They took little damage and all had like 35k health. Noticed Fish and Prince were two of the names... Logged right out, lol.0 -
CaperGuy✭✭✭I miss Ravenwatch. Even though I spent countless hours testing sets and trying to fill in the gaps of knowledge for no proc, on Xbox it’s typically just dead, or a handful of trolls gating a dead campaign, or sketchy boosters/etc trading emp titles and whatnot. I’ve spent 90% of my PvP time lately in other places.
Every now and then I go back just to see what it's like because I miss it too. Same old same old, unfortunately. There's one alliance online. One group doing one thing. And when you get there to see what's up it isn't a group you might try your hand at Xing it's the same vets thatve been there for years. Showed up just last night to try and defend a keep from like 6 reds. Pewpewed a couple... They took little damage and all had like 35k health. Noticed Fish and Prince were two of the names... Logged right out, lol.
The complete lack of in game transparency as to the rules makes it super super hostile to new players. Too much deep internet research to do for new players to learn how the game works differently in there.Characters:
Trivalaur - Breton Templar(Healer)1
