Sorcs are stronger right now than DK was in previous patch.

axi

Seriously what was the point of these "balance" changes if they do not balance anything and just changed top tier setup to be even stronger than previous top tier setup was?

divnyi

This is literally what people on the forums were asking for.
"Buff stamsorcs, they are bad at everything!"
"Don't nerf skills, buff skills instead!"

Udrath

The class is fine right now I think, it’s really just a few overtuned sets that works well on them. Savage werewolf is broken at the moment for example and needs a CD

Micah_Bayer

axi wrote: »

Seriously what was the point of these "balance" changes if they do not balance anything and just changed top tier setup to be even stronger than previous top tier setup was?

Please be sure to specify which aspect of sorc. Stam sorc is overperforming yes. Magicka sorc? Absolutely not.

Kikazaru

Every meta cycle will have some cheese that players want to flock en masse. It’s the ebb and flow of the ‘Fotm’ lifestyle. Once the proc sorcs gets wack with the nerf hammer - same with oakensoul builds- , something else will rise in it’s place.

Courtesy of ZOS very confident balance team.

WreckfulAbandon

Sorc is certainly top tier at kiting and obviously their damage is great right now. But to call something unequivocally top tier means it has to excel in every important area of gameplay to which I would say Templar says hello and DK is doing just fine.

Either way you can certainly call Sorc a top tier class but not "the" top tier class which makes it more balanced than other historically overtuned setups. Caluurion gankers are right next to sorc if were talking about 2 tapping people.

divnyi

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Sorc is certainly top tier at kiting and obviously their damage is great right now. But to call something unequivocally top tier means it has to excel in every important area of gameplay to which I would say Templar says hello

Sorc is doing full sweeps damage from range, with no need to be channeling in close range on the target. Idk what Templar should say to bowsorc but sorc is currently doing much higher damage while also having best utility skills in the game.

WreckfulAbandon

divnyi wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Sorc is certainly top tier at kiting and obviously their damage is great right now. But to call something unequivocally top tier means it has to excel in every important area of gameplay to which I would say Templar says hello

Sorc is doing full sweeps damage from range, with no need to be channeling in close range on the target. Idk what Templar should say to bowsorc but sorc is currently doing much higher damage while also having best utility skills in the game.

You make it sound like a Sorc can just sit there in melee and eat a Crescent Sweep and keep pew pewing. Sorc has better overall damage yes but they lack healing, and if you look at previous universally agreed upon OP setups most of them (all of them?) had both top tier healing and damage.

birdik

NBs are worse that it was in previous patch..

divnyi

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

and if you look at previous universally agreed upon OP setups most of them (all of them?) had both top tier healing and damage.

You don't look far enough. Back in DoT meta, best ones were the ones that did more damage, so were killing faster.
It doesn't matter how fast are you healing if you can't outheal the incoming damage.

Add in a decent group, and you get your healing covered.

WreckfulAbandon

divnyi wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

and if you look at previous universally agreed upon OP setups most of them (all of them?) had both top tier healing and damage.

You don't look far enough. Back in DoT meta, best ones were the ones that did more damage, so were killing faster.
It doesn't matter how fast are you healing if you can't outheal the incoming damage.

Add in a decent group, and you get your healing covered.

Yeah I really enjoyed the old bleed meta on my stamsorc, torching DKs in melee was fun and we are very far from that. Sorc is the ranged damage dealer archetype and I wont call it a glass cannon but lets not pretend Sorc can heal like Templar or DK much less a Necro.

Thecompton73

Not even close, as has already been pointed out the healing available to either stam or mag sorcs is nothing close to what DK was pulling last patch. And then there is the issue of sustain. Dk's could spam both heals and damage abilities indefinitely last patch, Sorcs aren't anywhere near that easy to sustain on.

Derra

Personally i think most of the complaints are coming from ppl that comfortably played through 3+ years of fotm brawler builds being at the top of the food chain and never learned how to engange with competetive ranged builds.

acastanza_ESO

Literally only StamSorc, MagSorc is the worst it's ever been. They absolutely have to take some of the power from StamSorc and shift it back to MagSorc. If StamSorc is nerfed (and I do think it should be) it must done in a way that doesn't hurt MagSorc even more (like increasing the cost of Crystal Weapon did)

divnyi

Thecompton73 wrote: »

Not even close, as has already been pointed out the healing available to either stam or mag sorcs is nothing close to what DK was pulling last patch.

Backbar healing staff, Rapid Regen + Resolving Vigor + Dark Deal.

Thecompton73 wrote: »

And then there is the issue of sustain.

Dark Deal. Energy Overload.

xylena_lazarow

Derra wrote: »

Personally i think most of the complaints are coming from ppl that comfortably played through 3+ years of fotm brawler builds being at the top of the food chain and never learned how to engange with competetive ranged builds.

This is correct. They also don't know what to do when DoT pressure can't be effortlessly out-healed, but having this is crucial to a healthy meta. Ranged proc Sorcs do high damage but even the Resto version is way squishier than any DK or Temp, probably the most balanced Sorc has been in years. I'd actually be worried that if the anti-proc whiners win again, ranged Sorc would drop out of the meta. Also, Caluurion's is far more obnoxious than Savage Werewolf or any DoT proc.

axi

Derra wrote: »

Personally i think most of the complaints are coming from ppl that comfortably played through 3+ years of fotm brawler builds being at the top of the food chain and never learned how to engange with competetive ranged builds.

Personally i think comments like that are made to discredit serious concerns just by trying to add some agenda to them. Calling current sorc a "competitive range build" is also a stretch. Hybridisation and latest changes to crystal weapon allowed sorc to go well beyond what can be considered competitive with the amount of dmg that class can perform on both mag and stam version while their defense is pretty strong now when their foes recived nerfs that no longer allow them to pressure sorcs so much while sorcs now pressure everyone in a extreme way.

axi

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Literally only StamSorc, MagSorc is the worst it's ever been. They absolutely have to take some of the power from StamSorc and shift it back to MagSorc. If StamSorc is nerfed (and I do think it should be) it must done in a way that doesn't hurt MagSorc even more (like increasing the cost of Crystal Weapon did)

To be honest lines between magsorc and stamsorc are now more blurred than ever. There is plenty of strong sorcs that run with gear composition that would be considered as magicka setups while using crystal weapon and bound armanents as their main offense but healing with matriarch. Lots of setups that would be considered a stamsorc is using destro/resto staff and haunting curse.

Dorkener

Getting 2016 vibes xD Sorcs and NBs pointing fingers at each other about whose dirty proccsets are more dirty

Solariken

Why do people keep saying Savage Werewolf is OP? Honest question. I think it's okay-ish, being one of the only decent ranged proc sets, but the damage isn't that impressive. Especially compared to Caluurion which actually is super OP from stealth. What am I missing on Savage Werewolf?

duckdown

Solariken wrote: »

Why do people keep saying Savage Werewolf is OP? Honest question. I think it's okay-ish, being one of the only decent ranged proc sets, but the damage isn't that impressive. Especially compared to Caluurion which actually is super OP from stealth. What am I missing on Savage Werewolf?

Cos it can proc multipletime each second

katorga

duckdown wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Why do people keep saying Savage Werewolf is OP? Honest question. I think it's okay-ish, being one of the only decent ranged proc sets, but the damage isn't that impressive. Especially compared to Caluurion which actually is super OP from stealth. What am I missing on Savage Werewolf?

Cos it can proc multipletime each second

So, It's damage is poor either way. You use it because it is ranged, instant, puts a status effect on and a sorc focuses on light attacks for crystal/bound armaments.

Ominer

I disagree, I would agree if sorcs also had insane healing and tankyness but that normally isn't the case. Last patch DK had really high healing, damage, sustain and tankyness however sorcs this patch have insane damage but not the healing or tankyness.

All DKs felt like a challenge last patch whereas only relatively good sorcs are an issue this patch, except in Xv1 situations.

Don't get me wrong i still think sorc needs tweaks and is overperforming but it's not making me want to uninstall like magDK was last patch.