For the people who dont like battlegrounds, why D:

TheHeroCat

Collecting data again XD (i Dont wanna say things like general unbalance because that would be more of a general pvp issue not a issue unique to battlegrounds)

DrSlaughtr

I only have two issues with BGs.

I almost always get chaos ball or relic and it is literally the the worst. I don't mind flag games. I prefer DM for my main class. But I rarely get anything but chaos or relic. The rare times I do, it's domination. I can't remember the last DM I got. Now I only do a couple a night, so I'm not in there 24/7 like some people.

My second issue is that when you get stuck in a BG against a group that's perfectly optimized and you end up on a 3 man team with no coordination, it really blows, but you just have to get through it or suffer the timeout for leaving before it's over. The most simple thing is to make sure all the teams have 4 players, and more often than not, at least one doesn't.

Oh, and of course then you have the "it's always death match" folks who completely disrupt any chance to actually do the objective in order to qualify for the better rewards.

I do think they should remove the requirement that you must finish 2nd or 1st to get the xp daily.

SkaraMinoc

(Other)

Many reasons.

• Premade 4v4v4 must fight in modes that are not Deathmatch. For example, in a competitive 4v4v4 you will accidently walk over the chaosball during sweaty fights and the objective score will start to tick. Your team starts taking damage and the only solution is to kill yourself so the chaosball respawns and nobody has it.
• No grace period for rejoining the battleground after a disconnect or client crash. This is detrimental in competitive Deathmatch premades.
• BG queues designed to place PvE questers and Deathmatch players in the same game is not a good design.
• PvE questers play objectives and think they "won" the match with the score 500-45-30 but they're really just rude and force everyone else back into queue for 10-15 minutes. Deathmatch players are trying to enjoy the rich combat that ESO has to offer and PvE questers take that away by ending the match in < 5 minutes. Even if you join Group Queue as a premade, you almost always end up with PvE questers in the match.
• On the contrary, Deathmatch players ignore objectives and you're often on your own to get the Daily XP quest win.
• 3-team format is inappropriate for Capture the Relic and often Deathmatch. The 2 strongest teams always group up against the weakest team.
• Crazy King is designed so your teammates desert you. They run away from fights and it's very dishonorable. It's frustrating and there are many words to describe players when they do this. 4v4 fights become 1v4 fights and ded gg
• PvE selfish tanks love Domination and it's not group friendly at all. They provide very little benefit to their team and eventually die anyways. At least play a tanky healer.
• PvE questers often do not have PvP builds. They join with 16-24k health and die in 2 hits, literally. Any serious PvPers are at a major disadvantage when they have teammates like this.
• <= 20% chance to play Deathmatch based on PvPMeter statistics. If you get lucky and roll a Deathmatch, you'll end up with PvE questers on your team anyways and they feed kills to the enemy team.
• Chaosball can be cheezed with super fast movespeed builds
• No Healer role. Sometimes you'll have 3 healers on your team and the other teams have no healer.

colossalvoids

Team unbalanced. (the people are not on the same skill level as me) (lower or higher)

I don't dislike them, I just don't play them anymore for various reasons. I actually loved them and it's refreshing going back at it at times. But that's the closest one I was able to choose, not even skill level as when your MMR is getting higher it's more streamlined until you're again in a wrong bracket for a pretty casual play. I'd say it's more of a difference in goals. One person doing achievements and going for all the objectives ignoring everything else, NB going their merry cloaked way and two people actually trying to synergise and do something just as example.

It's not that BG's are bad at anything, just the game is in a different state and time, whilst feature not being supported for years and kinda left alone to play out somehow. I wonder how soon even ToT players will feel how it is also, to be left out for yourself.

redspecter23

Team unbalanced. (the people are not on the same skill level as me) (lower or higher)

Mostly I just feel absolutely outclassed and not by a small margin. I can admit I'm not a great pvp'er but the level of thrashing I received the few times I've bothered has been on levels I'm just not interested in.

I'm not complaining. Some people are really exceptional pvp players, but it's enough to keep me from enjoying the format. If there were enough players in the queue and a ranking system capable of matching similarly skilled players, I might enjoy it more, but I'm not sure that's really possible with the current BG population. Having one team (or even just one player on one team) obliterate everyone else, while impressive, is demoralizing enough to make it completely unenjoyable.

divnyi

@SkaraMinoc all fair points, but you are BG player. I guess OP wants to hear the voices of those who chosen not to BG.

Redguards_Revenge

Non-deathmatch BGs is my favorite. While those people get a rise out of putting up their kill count, I just go straight to the objective and complete my daily. I should say I gave up pvp when the solution to winning came in the newest DLC/Chapter. Objective BGs is like a vet mode bosses trying to stop me from finishing the objective. You can't kill them alone but you can avoid them. I just go there now get tossed around and try to complete the objective. I gain more AP from BGs than boring cyro where 10k ap happens maybe every 2 -3 hours.

Dirt_Rooster

dont like the arena style combat

Prefer a less structured combat. It's nice not having to play the horse riding simulator but can't beat open world and how variable it is. BGs start to get boring for me, it's often very repetitive.

Dem_kitkats1

(Other)

I used to queue BGs quite a bit, but they can be pretty hit and miss, and for that reason I've been doing a lot more in Cyro now.

1. The modes need to be redesigned. CK and Domination don't promote a healthy balance between PvP combat and Objective play because of the amount of flags that spawn and the size of the maps. In Chaosball there are too many hard to reach areas of the maps that can be exploited and too often it becomes a game of chase, which leads to a chaotic DM at best (at that point I would rather DM and be rewarded for the effort). CTR should not be a 4x4x4 mode. Quite often 2 teams become locked in combat over a relic, and the 3rd is free to capture the other without contest. Or 2 teams descend on the 'weaker' team to secure an easy win.

2. Mixing DM only with Objective only players has been an experience... and not a positive one. It's created both a hostile and chaotic atmosphere as teammates are not on the same page. I don't want to keep beating a dead horse, but completely separate queues would be beneficial to the community as whole. Not only would that allow for players to be guaranteed the mode they want, and therefore, be of a similar mindset, but a separate Objective mode would be much more friendly towards new/inexperienced players, as the more sweaty players would more often be in DM.

3. Players seem to be unsure of how the personal scoring in matches actually works. How much does medal scoring actually count towards the final score, or is it just based on achieving the objective?

Vaoh

(Other)

Could write a ton on this topic but, in short, it’s just poorly designed from many angles.

I had lots of fun in BGs over the time I’ve played ESO but there are way too many balance issues to consider playing it devoutly, the way someone would play a multiplayer game like Apex or CoD, etc. Ideally the goal would be to have that sort of regular playerbase for a mode like BGs.

neferpitou73

(Other)

Honestly it just feels unbalanced. People run the same meta builds. Getting killed over and over by a team of 4 WWs gets old very quickly.

TheHeroCat

I perfer the Free for all pvp of Zone Chat :D

I just wanna say thank you everyone for your input!

Psiion

Greetings,

After review of this thread, seeing as it is in regards to Battlegrounds, we have moved it to the Battlegrounds and Dueling section.

Zekka

(Other)

They are my most played PvP mode since I hate Horserideodiil and Gank City but even then I play them and ESO in general less and less for multiple reasons:

1. Terrible matchmaking resulting in teams full of PvE flag runners against PvP sweatlords
2. 4v4v4 that just doesn't work with objective modes
3. Forced objective modes
4. No good rewards from them, worthless items and miserable AP gain
5. Tiny player pool full of weirdos with egos the size of the Empire State Building that will focus you for months for daring to kill them once, and you can't avoid them

And then there are more general reasons like the puzzling - to put it politely - balancing since Wrobel left and performance reaching new lows every month (and no it's not just Cyrodiil, at this point the entire game feels sluggish, I played games on japanese servers that felt more responsive than ESO EU servers).

WhiteCoatSyndrome

rather play solo/larger scale.

I tend towards solo play most of the time, but winding up in a few groups that only had two other people (vs. full teams of four) on the rare occasions I tried Battlegrounds did not entice me to change that.

_adhyffbjjjf12

(Other)

mixture of the above:

- No split between pvp and pve gear and stats
- No concept of curated PVP build sets, so game will NEVER be balanced because of the vast permutations available.
- Slow balancing and cynical introduction of overpowered builds each release
- 3 teams does not work
- Animation cancelling ruins balance, and fights against fluid gameplay (must spam a light attack every second)
- Poor reward model and visualisations, i.e no sense of progression or reward for replay play beyond crude dailies. Think tiered rewards with progress bars etc
- As a result of all of the above, low population and therefore no scope to give players choice of BG type.

Fix all of this and the population will expand as above are all standard positive aspects we see in other successful AAA MMORPG BG formats. The question people have to ask however is looking at the history of ESO and ZOS is this likely, especially at this stage in ESOs Lifecycle considering the investment involved? The answer is almost certainly no, and that means the reality is the population will never significantly improve beyond a few sporadic spikes where Build X becomes overpowered for a time or for some temporary event.

What will happen is these debates and polls will go on year after year after year (8 years so far, think about it!), and people will grasp desperately onto the soundbites that ZOS put out occasionally where they say they are looking at stuff without acknowledging that they actually cant do anything significant beyond crude tinkering at the edges due to allocated budgets.

its unfortunate as ESO had the makings of a good game, but poor design choices at the start have built a game on an ill-formed foundation. Very similar problem as cyrodiil actually, its the MO of this game.

Luke_Flamesword

(Other)

* Unbalanced PvP with broken builds - almost every patch there are op builds and of course many people using that, which is not fun. I don't mind deaths from skilled players, I don't like deaths from broken builds.

* Lottery with team - you can have only 3 players where other teams have 4 or you have players in your team so bad, that you don't have chance of winning from beginning - for example they don't pay attention to objectives (play as deatchmatch in capture flag) or just constantly dying when light attacking everything with bow.

Brrrofski

rather play solo/larger scale.

Dirt_Rooster wrote: »

Prefer a less structured combat. It's nice not having to play the horse riding simulator but can't beat open world and how variable it is. BGs start to get boring for me, it's often very repetitive.

Exactly this.

I much prefer running around cyrodiil solo.

I do play BGs sometimes, mainly when cyrodiil is completely unplayable (you know, where it even lags getting on your horse).

90% of the time my team wins and I have the highest score in the game. If not, I'm second. A lot of kills, few deaths.

I'm not flexing, because a lot of people in Bags are just there to get the 100k xp. So it's not a flex or saying I'm amazing.

Just trying to give context that even though I always do well, I still don't enjoy them. Even though I've recently started on Xbox NA and have like 800 CP, so an environment where everyone is equal should be better for me.

But I still prefer to fight people, whatever CP they are, in Cyrodiil.

Maybe it's less downtime. Ok, you have to ride to fights in Cyrodiil, but it's not just standing around waiting to be pulled into a fight.

Also, terrain and location. In Cyrodiil, granted you're mostly at keeps and resources, but sometimes you end up fighting in a new place. I've played since console launch, and I still end up fighting in new places fairly often. New places to figure out how I use it to my advantage (yes, I'm one of those los players that people hate) or just look cool. BGs don't offer that.

Fights in Cyro offer a different dynamic too. Multiple things can be popping off at once that change the fight you're in potentially. Or offers up new fights. If I don't want to defend my keep and see other two alliances are at another, I often go near it and start fights outside. No support from my team and just see what happens.

Or you're in a big fight, and enemy/friendly reinforcements turn up and away the fight. Or the third alliance turns up and it's a whole different thing.

Victories and losses of fights feel like they mean more. In BGs it's just jump down and run 5 seconds. In Cyro, it feels like a big loss if you lose a keep, or get wiped when attacking.

Ilsabet

I dont like the 4v4v4 enviroment

I realized after I clicked that the "rather play solo/larger scale" option is probably a better fit for me, but that's what I get for being tired and not reading carefully enough.

It might sound strange coming from someone whose alliance rank is 43, but I don't really like pvp. At least, I don't like the kind of pvp where every person's performance counts and if I'm not "good enough" my team loses and my teammates are pissed at me for making them waste 15 minutes. I don't like feeling like I'm wasting my own time because there will always be someone better than me and I can't win. I like the idea of contributing by playing objectives, but I don't want to be trying to play objectives with other people who just want to be murderhobos.

Now I have been known to participate in activities I don't really enjoy if the swag is enticing enough, and in other games I've tryharded my way through small-scale pvp matches for that very purpose. And there are some BG rewards (mostly fashion-related) that I wouldn't mind having. But other than the time a guildie helped me get a win for my Mayhem laurels (which took 5 or 6 matches; my guildie was not pleased) and the time I YOLOed a match on my main just to get the For Glory quest cleared, I haven't been able to work up the ambition to just do it. I suppose that's partly because I have other things I'm more apt to spend my time doing, and it's never been a habit to do the daily BG or whatever. But I also just kind of... don't want to deal. Don't want to deal with people getting on my case because my team lost or because I'm not as pro as they are. Don't want to deal with personal frustration of not being able to accomplish what I set out to do. There's a real potential for active annoyance and I just don't really need that in a game that has been remarkably good at not pissing me off over the years.

But... I like Cyrodiil. I like the chaos of big battles and the fact that I can actually contribute to keep objectives even if I suck at pvp. It's reassuring knowing that I as one person am not going to make the difference between my side winning or losing, and if I die it doesn't really matter. I don't even die as much as you might expect, and if I do, 1) there are people around to rez me so I can get right back in the fight, or 2) we were gonna get roflstomped anyway and it's not a reflection of my worth as a person. There are annoyances along the way, like choosing the wrong keep to ride to and missing out on action elsewhere or pretty much anything related to Dark Convergence, but I can roll with that stuff and just keep truckin'. And that's how I've amassed 43 ranks worth of AP and had a mostly fun time doing it.

So... tl;dr BG is the type of relatively high-pressure low-chill pvp I don't enjoy, and I have not yet been lured by shines to throw myself to the wolves, which is probably just as well as far as the wolves are concerned. But Cyro is fun to derp around in and occasionally kill people while feeling like I'm getting something out of it.

blistb16_ESO

(Other)

* Pay2Win
* Stupid objectives when bg could have much much better design
* ZOS don't care about bg
* Did I say objectives are stupid for 4v4v4?
* Worst matchmaking ever
* etc

Techwolf_Lupindo

(Other)

I choose other. There is NO no-deathmatch option. Its deathmatch only or random with deathmatch and all of them turn into deathmatch. This is the biggest killer of battle grounds. Folks the like to play deathmatch hate the games due to no one want to play deathmatch in those games.

divnyi

Techwolf_Lupindo wrote: »

Folks the like to play deathmatch hate the games due to no one want to play deathmatch in those games.

Depends, sometimes it's "10 players play deathmatch, and other 2 finish the game too soon".

Necrotech_Master

(Other)

2 main reasons i dont do BGs that much:

• poor AP gains (theres no AP for kills during the match, and the amount you get at the end is piddly)
• have all the gear and almost all of the outfit pages collected, so as someone who doesnt care about competitive pvp, theres not much left there for me with the poor AP gains

Arkew

(Other)

was very great fan of bg but since zos nerfed my build into oblivion i not seen a lot of reason to still here on bg since i can't run my old healer business.

Proof of my old bg play's

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1630856397661069976/2B921591111D458EF9C7F55A01F3241D2F2FC842/?imw=5000&amp;imh=5000&amp;ima=fit&amp;impolicy=Letterbox&amp;imcolor=#000000&amp;letterbox=false

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/784121114587752771/C7CB3AD710896459F1A0A6846DA86A3354F854A8/?imw=5000&amp;imh=5000&amp;ima=fit&amp;impolicy=Letterbox&amp;imcolor=#000000&amp;letterbox=false

Amottica

It is not as simple or straight forward as the poll tried to make it.

In part, it is probably the 4v4v4 model and we can add a dash of the design of some of the objective BGs. It is a little bit of both imo.

SkaraMinoc

(Other)

Arkew wrote: »

was very great fan of bg but since zos nerfed my build into oblivion i not seen a lot of reason to still here on bg since i can't run my old healer business.

Proof of my old bg play's

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1630856397661069976/2B921591111D458EF9C7F55A01F3241D2F2FC842/?imw=5000&amp;imh=5000&amp;ima=fit&amp;impolicy=Letterbox&amp;imcolor=#000000&amp;letterbox=false

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/784121114587752771/C7CB3AD710896459F1A0A6846DA86A3354F854A8/?imw=5000&amp;imh=5000&amp;ima=fit&amp;impolicy=Letterbox&amp;imcolor=#000000&amp;letterbox=false

This is still easy to do on Mag Sorc healer. A few days ago:

Vetixio

(Other)

I enjoy them I just wish there was an option for No Proc Battlegrounds as the proc cheese in Battlegrounds can be very unfun to play against sometimes. I also wish you earned AP from kills, heals and doing objectives like you do in Cyrodiil.

Virys1967

I liked everything about Battlegrounds, except Chaos Ball and Capture the Relic.

I HATE both of those so much that I log out if one of them are chosen for me.

Back when we could choose our Battleground I played every day, for years, but since that choice has been taken from us I rarely go in.

If I wanted to play football or some other sporting event, I wouldn't be in ESO carrying a staff...

darvaria

I dont like the 4v4v4 enviroment

If you don't like the BG you get, you can just play a game of TOT. At game's end you can que. I log out on Death Match if the team is scattering around or it's Eld Angavar or Mor Khazgur. Even Arcane University is tiresome. I really don't see the need for all of these maps. You can't find ppl and I've seen ppl just "hiding" until games end. Why have it where ppl can't really see what's going on?

And .. there is no MMR. I played against 2 very well known streamers that BG all the time. I haven't played BG's much in a couple of years so I know I'm no where near their "MMR".

Oakenaxe

The fact that it is not faction locked is a bummer to me, and also I don't like the maps. I wish the alliances had more meaning in this game, not just in the alliance locked campaign in Cyrodiil. I'd love to see a raid-sized faction locked BG.

DarthCuddlefluff

Mostly toxic behavior like being mailed afterwords about how much of a "loser" I am. Also unhelpful teammates.