Request to change name of Tales of Tribute to Tales of RNG

AvengerDan

8 losses in a row due to two cards. Balanced game, 10/10

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.

Thank you for your understanding.

SilverBride

Winning isn't as dependent on getting good cards as much as learning what to do with the ones you are dealt.

EF321

No, OP really is right, once both sides know what to do, starts, synergies, counters and counter counters etc, it all boils down to who is favored by rng this time.

SilverBride

Not completely.

Lysette

EF321 wrote: »

No, OP really is right, once both sides know what to do, starts, synergies, counters and counter counters etc, it all boils down to who is favored by rng this time.

There is not much to counter - I just have to pay attention to that they don't get all 4 patrons in their favor, otherwise I can play my strategy and just roll over them in the end phase with a powerful deck build. My strategy takes a little while to build up, but once it is established, it just rolls over everything. I'm not afraid of Pelin, I am afraid of those who know how to play the lower 4 decks well, that is where the real nasty stuff is.

Lysette

SilverBride wrote: »

Winning isn't as dependent on getting good cards as much as learning what to do with the ones you are dealt.

And this here is the correct statement - it is just like SilverBride said. There is chance involved, but it is neither favoring me nor my opponent in the end. Who can deal better with an unlucky stream of cards counts, like when you are facing a wall of high value cards in the tavern at start - you might have to change your whole strategy. The one most flexible will win.

EF321

POV: you are blessed with first move

Lysette

EF321 wrote: »

POV: you are blessed with first move

I'd rather pick the hlaalu card (6 gold in a combo) and use the treasury instead - those 4 power are not a problem, but a quick coin gain from the very start will enable me to buy other higher value cards more quickly. Choosing the armory is not the best move here. And because I will have more coin more quickly, I might pick up the Rally later on, which is of more use in a combo deck.

EF321

Lysette wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

POV: you are blessed with first move

I'd rather pick the hlaalu card (6 gold in a combo) and use the treasury instead - those 4 power are not a problem, but a quick coin gain from the very start will enable me to buy other higher value cards more quickly. Choosing the armory is not the best move here. And because I will have more coin more quickly, I might pick up the Rally later on, which is of more use in a combo deck.

These are all contract non-agent cards which you won't keep, by buying Hlaalu card you just lose 1 gold and reveal next card (for your opponent more likely than yourself), that card is Combo 3 and on first turn you can't do that since you can only possibly have one.

SeaGtGruff

EF321 wrote: »

No, OP really is right, once both sides know what to do, starts, synergies, counters and counter counters etc, it all boils down to who is favored by rng this time.

If that were true, I should be losing a lot more than I am. Granted, I've only played against NPCs so far, so there's also the question of how "skilled" the AI that's controlling the NPCs' moves is. But if it's all primarily just RNG, then it shouldn't matter whether I'm playing against an intelligent AI, an unintelligent AI, or an actual player, because everyone's win-to-lose ratio should be roughly 50-50.

Lysette

EF321 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

POV: you are blessed with first move

I'd rather pick the hlaalu card (6 gold in a combo) and use the treasury instead - those 4 power are not a problem, but a quick coin gain from the very start will enable me to buy other higher value cards more quickly. Choosing the armory is not the best move here. And because I will have more coin more quickly, I might pick up the Rally later on, which is of more use in a combo deck.

These are all contract non-agent cards which you won't keep, by buying Hlaalu card you just lose 1 gold and reveal next card (for your opponent more likely than yourself), that card is Combo 3 and on first turn you can't do that since you can only possibly have one.

Ok, I didn't remember that it is a contract card - I would still pick it, have 4 gold left then - but I see another card showing up, if that card is not good as well, I can still use the card left to the armory and destroy the armory - now I have 3 gold left and see 2 new cards showing up in the tavern - eventually one of them I can buy and if not, I use the treasury - I would go for this chance - the armory is not a winning card in my books.

You know I could be lucky and that first card showing up is a value 4 "pick a card of value 5" hlaalu card, that would make me quite happy to be able to pick it up. And if this is not going to happen, then with 3 coins left there are a couple of other Hlaalu cards, which could show up, which I could buy with 3 coins. I would go for that chance instead of the armory.

EF321

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

No, OP really is right, once both sides know what to do, starts, synergies, counters and counter counters etc, it all boils down to who is favored by rng this time.

If that were true, I should be losing a lot more than I am. Granted, I've only played against NPCs so far, so there's also the question of how "skilled" the AI that's controlling the NPCs' moves is. But if it's all primarily just RNG, then it shouldn't matter whether I'm playing against an intelligent AI, an unintelligent AI, or an actual player, because everyone's win-to-lose ratio should be roughly 50-50.

AI has nothing of what I mentioned
I am talking about competitive matches in higher ranks, where people know how to play.

EF321

Lysette wrote: »

You know I could be lucky and that first card showing up is a value 4 "pick a card of value 5" hlaalu card.

I don't know what to even add here now, you said it yourself

Lysette

It doesn't really matter in this case as well. Randomness is not fair - about 1/3 will be lucky, about 1/3 will be as often lucky as they are unlucky and the last 1/3 will be the really unlucky ones - that is just the normal case if chance is involved. In the long run though, you will be in any of those groups, but it still might not ever balance out - percentages will get nearer to each other and look like 50:50 - but the actual nominal amount of wins and losses can still be far different - this is why most strategies in a casino to wait for the game to bounce back from an unlucky stream don't work - percentages are nearly in balance in the long run, whilst the actual numbers are most likely not. They are more likely to get further and further apart from each other, whilst the percentages keep nearing each other.

Lysette

EF321 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

You know I could be lucky and that first card showing up is a value 4 "pick a card of value 5" hlaalu card.

I don't know what to even add here now, you said it yourself

But it is my decision to go for that chance - it is a conscious decision I made, it is not sheer randomness.

dmnqwk

The game has a lot of RNG in it, but I think whether you go first or second plays a bigger role in winning.

I also think they need to include a refresh option where if players fail to take cards from the center for 3 turns in a row, all cards are flushed and replaced (I say 3 because right now player 2 is at a huge disadvantage, and forcing it to be 3 means player 2 is more likely to see the new cards, balancing out the current benefit of seeing more cards that player 1 has)

SilverBride

Every card game has RNG. Professional poker players who compete for large amounts of money in tournaments have to deal with RNG. The deck will always be dealt in a random order and luck certainly makes it easier to win, but understanding how to play the cards is the most important determiner on how well the player does in the end.

@EF321 mentioned "I am talking about competitive matches in higher ranks, where people know how to play.". The important words here being "where people know how to play".

Necrotech_Master

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

No, OP really is right, once both sides know what to do, starts, synergies, counters and counter counters etc, it all boils down to who is favored by rng this time.

If that were true, I should be losing a lot more than I am. Granted, I've only played against NPCs so far, so there's also the question of how "skilled" the AI that's controlling the NPCs' moves is. But if it's all primarily just RNG, then it shouldn't matter whether I'm playing against an intelligent AI, an unintelligent AI, or an actual player, because everyone's win-to-lose ratio should be roughly 50-50.

it is a combination of intelligence and luck

as for the NPCs, their AI does not always make fully optimized moves and generally its very easy to win against them

if i had to guess ive probably played around 40 matches total against npcs, and ive only lost a handful (maybe 5, some of which were due to making poor choices of buying from tavern and then bad RNG by the next card drawn to tavern being something good for the opponent)

Lysette

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

No, OP really is right, once both sides know what to do, starts, synergies, counters and counter counters etc, it all boils down to who is favored by rng this time.

If that were true, I should be losing a lot more than I am. Granted, I've only played against NPCs so far, so there's also the question of how "skilled" the AI that's controlling the NPCs' moves is. But if it's all primarily just RNG, then it shouldn't matter whether I'm playing against an intelligent AI, an unintelligent AI, or an actual player, because everyone's win-to-lose ratio should be roughly 50-50.

it is a combination of intelligence and luck

as for the NPCs, their AI does not always make fully optimized moves and generally its very easy to win against them

if i had to guess ive probably played around 40 matches total against npcs, and ive only lost a handful (maybe 5, some of which were due to making poor choices of buying from tavern and then bad RNG by the next card drawn to tavern being something good for the opponent)

Ok, but you have as well to see, that these NPCs are meant as training partners for different skill levels - so they are more or less crippled in their abilities - like novice NPCs do eventually use hlaalu patron, if they are really desperate to gain prestige, but they won't use any other patron. And they take quite often just the 2nd or 3rd best card from the tavern. Proficient NPC use the Duke much too early with too less coins and cripple their ability to convert a huge amount of coins to power.

Heartrage

Complaining about a card game having Rng is like complaining about a shooter game having guns

SilverBride

You've got to know when to hold 'em... know when to fold 'em.

Skill is more important than RNG

Lysette

I would compare it with a pilot - a good pilot can land a plane safely in gusty crosswinds - that is not random, but chaotic, and still he can do it - well most of the time, if not, he has to go-around, and try again. But it is rare to crash a plane in crosswinds.

cyclonus11

I like the sound of RNGs of Tribute better

gusthermopyle

It's a card game. Card games are meant to be random. Ever played poker? Ever heard anyone whine about losing because the cards came out in a random order??