what are your thoughts on healing in pvp?

Iriidius

Cross healing is too strong

I renember in greymoor, stonethorn and markarth health regen and health scaled healing was the problem. Now they are nerfed and damage scaled healing is the problem And when you make healing scale only with max magicka and stamina, the strong players will still find a way to get higher healing and players will complain about magicka/stamina scaled healing beeing to strong. Shields scale with max magicka and many players complain about this. Dont know why after 8 years Ideas to change rules of combat that exist since the start of the game get hyped.
Heal stacking is too strong, solo healing is often not enaugh to outheal the dmg you get. The nerfs to healing over time we get nerf self healing too, they are no solution to heal stacking. Playing in group and outnumbering your opponent already gives big advantages, you have more people that deal dmg and the enemy has to kill more people and you can hide behind your allies when you are pressured, dont know why you have to reward them even more by making every group players survive more dmg than solo players.

deleted221205-002626

Cross healing is too strong

IMO healing should be tuned upward slightly for self healing but disable HOT stacking. Make the single HOT better but nowhere near what 15 stacked HOTs are. Healers were always mildly tanky from the healing not super squishy when solo.

mmtaniac

Cross healing is too strong

Cross healing too stronk and healing + undeath passive work too well.

DaisyRay

Its balanced.

I'm probably one of the few who don't mind how strong healing is. If we don't have strong healing, then there will be no place for healers in pvp. People are so unnecessarily strong in pvp, so we need that extra boost in healing. Even with all my best heals, cp points, and sets, I still end up not being a good enough healer for some attacks. I think healing balances out all those crazy strong crits.

I've been called a few names for healing people through attacks, usually from gankers and or 1vxrs. No one complains about people who make builds to deal out the most damage they can possibly fathom, but as soon as a healer makes a build to balance out that power they are horrible players.

Tonturri

DaisyRay wrote: »

I'm probably one of the few who don't mind how strong healing is. If we don't have strong healing, then there will be no place for healers in pvp. People are so unnecessarily strong in pvp, so we need that extra boost in healing. Even with all my best heals, cp points, and sets, I still end up not being a good enough healer for some attacks. I think healing balances out all those crazy strong crits.

I've been called a few names for healing people through attacks, usually from gankers and or 1vxrs. No one complains about people who make builds to deal out the most damage they can possibly fathom, but as soon as a healer makes a build to balance out that power they are horrible players.

What do you mean. People complain all the time, particularly about proc burst. People don't mind the strong healing, I think, insomuch as they mind that certain healing effects can easily stack but require disproportionately less investment, and stats function such that 'healer' involves basically just slotting a heal skill because it scales off spell/wpn dmg and max stat, too, resulting in characters who are not so much 'healers' as they just happen to have some healing skills equipped. This ultimately allows people to very easily stack healing effects, turning groups with mostly damage or other utility skills slotted into powerful constant heals.

Like the resto staff HoT. Slot that on there, take the morph that applies it to more people, and mash it a few times in between whatever else you're doing. Bamf, huge amount of healing for very little investment, particularly if everyone does it - and they can, with equally little investment, and it stacks.

DaisyRay

Its balanced.

Tonturri wrote: »

DaisyRay wrote: »

I'm probably one of the few who don't mind how strong healing is. If we don't have strong healing, then there will be no place for healers in pvp. People are so unnecessarily strong in pvp, so we need that extra boost in healing. Even with all my best heals, cp points, and sets, I still end up not being a good enough healer for some attacks. I think healing balances out all those crazy strong crits.

I've been called a few names for healing people through attacks, usually from gankers and or 1vxrs. No one complains about people who make builds to deal out the most damage they can possibly fathom, but as soon as a healer makes a build to balance out that power they are horrible players.

What do you mean. People complain all the time, particularly about proc burst. People don't mind the strong healing, I think, insomuch as they mind that certain healing effects can easily stack but require disproportionately less investment, and stats function such that 'healer' involves basically just slotting a heal skill because it scales off spell/wpn dmg and max stat, too, resulting in characters who are not so much 'healers' as they just happen to have some healing skills equipped. This ultimately allows people to very easily stack healing effects, turning groups with mostly damage or other utility skills slotted into powerful constant heals.

Like the resto staff HoT. Slot that on there, take the morph that applies it to more people, and mash it a few times in between whatever else you're doing. Bamf, huge amount of healing for very little investment, particularly if everyone does it - and they can, with equally little investment, and it stacks.

I see the majority of complaints about particular sets. Such as DC, VD, and now Oaksoul. I rarely see people complain about people themselves being overpowered. Which I am not complaining about because as someone said previously, there should not be a cap on damage or healing.

I get that cross healing is bothersome, especially when it comes to ball groups or as you said, any group that just slaps on a resto staff. However, there are actual people in pvp who create builds to only cater to healing their faction. Which means they make sacrifices to ensure they can help heal their faction through bombers, gankers, and ball groups. If you nerf healing, you'll be messing over everyone else who creates healer builds.

On my healer, I run sets that keep me tanky and pump out heals. I rarely do buffs because I don't often run in groups, so no one else will get those buffs anyway. Zergs don't count because many of the sets that give buffs will only give it to people you group with. I could be totally wrong about this part, but that is what I always thought to be true.

Amottica

Its balanced.

Holycannoli wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I have never seen an MMORPG, at least one that is worthy, cap how much damage or healing, a player could do.

I've never seen a MMORPG with this much healing. Healing is usually a specialized class or role and highly desired in groups because of it. In ESO every Tom, *** and Harry can be a healer and it doesn't require a build that sacrifices damage or defense.

It's overtuned and out of control.

@Holycannoli

My comment you quoted spoke to hard caps so not sure what you point is.

Further, as I also noted in another post, I run with a group that is conscious of their composition. We balance out our healing and damage and tanking with our small group. It has led to some great epic fights against other well-organized groups while also leading to steamrolling over pugs and lesser groups which are to be expected. There is a benefit to being organized and playing the game as it is designed and pretty much intended.

Holycannoli

Cross healing is too strong

Amottica wrote: »

My comment you quoted spoke to hard caps so not sure what you point is.

Further, as I also noted in another post, I run with a group that is conscious of their composition. We balance out our healing and damage and tanking with our small group. It has led to some great epic fights against other well-organized groups while also leading to steamrolling over pugs and lesser groups which are to be expected. There is a benefit to being organized and playing the game as it is designed and pretty much intended.

Doesn't change the fact that healing is overtuned and out of control.

DaisyRay

Its balanced.

Holycannoli wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

My comment you quoted spoke to hard caps so not sure what you point is.

Further, as I also noted in another post, I run with a group that is conscious of their composition. We balance out our healing and damage and tanking with our small group. It has led to some great epic fights against other well-organized groups while also leading to steamrolling over pugs and lesser groups which are to be expected. There is a benefit to being organized and playing the game as it is designed and pretty much intended.

Doesn't change the fact that healing is overtuned and out of control.

You're overtuned and out of control! ... >> lol

CharlieFreak

Isn't the real problem that building for damage = building for healing and all classes having access to healing skills (or can backbar a resto staff)?

Other people have said it already on the forums - that this is a serious flaw of the game. But it's also a great strength. In many ways I like this. It allows you to solo in pvp and pve quite well. It allows you to play with a very loose collection of players without demanding a specific group configuration. But it does have drawbacks and leads to this problem of too much healing in pvp. Everyone can do it to some extent.

To those calling for an end to cross healing, think carefully if you really want that. This game is fantastic in that anyone with a few minutes to play can jump right into the action and zerg surf or look for some fights somewhere without a great reliance on a certain group configuration.

If you ever played Dark Age of Camelot, for example. you'll remember that you couldn't pvp (or pve) at all without being grouped with at least one healer. If no healers you knew were online, you'd stand at the base camp and spam LFG forever.

Surely ending cross healing can only make organized groups even more invincible.

Dem_kitkats1

its overtuned.

CharlieFreak wrote: »

Isn't the real problem that building for damage = building for healing and all classes having access to healing skills (or can backbar a resto staff)?

Other people have said it already on the forums - that this is a serious flaw of the game. But it's also a great strength. In many ways I like this. It allows you to solo in pvp and pve quite well. It allows you to play with a very loose collection of players without demanding a specific group configuration. But it does have drawbacks and leads to this problem of too much healing in pvp. Everyone can do it to some extent.

To those calling for an end to cross healing, think carefully if you really want that. This game is fantastic in that anyone with a few minutes to play can jump right into the action and zerg surf or look for some fights somewhere without a great reliance on a certain group configuration.

If you ever played Dark Age of Camelot, for example. you'll remember that you couldn't pvp (or pve) at all without being grouped with at least one healer. If no healers you knew were online, you'd stand at the base camp and spam LFG forever.

Surely ending cross healing can only make organized groups even more invincible.

DAoC is a game where roles actually have hard limits and meaning. Dps are solely reliant on tanks and healers to keep them alive, for they have 0 self healing, and healers and tanks do literally no damage in that game. ESO is not like that in that players have a great deal of access to damage mitigation, self healing, and damage regardless of "role". Addressing the issues with cross-healing and h.o.t stacking won't suddenly make DDs completely defenseless like in other games. I don't think anyone is suggesting to get rid of cross-healing altogether, but merely limiting it along with h.o.t.s. Therefore, players will still be able to hit one another with random RRs/Vigors regardless of their role.

There's no getting around the fact that organized groups will always be powerful. However, they are almost invincible now just by their access to infinite rotations of cross heals, h.o.t.s, aoe healing, and individual self-healing alone, regardless of their group compositions. At least if their heals were limited, then players might actually have more viable ways to pressure and input damage to organized groups without only relying on extreme burst to do it.

CharlieFreak

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

CharlieFreak wrote: »

Isn't the real problem that building for damage = building for healing and all classes having access to healing skills (or can backbar a resto staff)?

Other people have said it already on the forums - that this is a serious flaw of the game. But it's also a great strength. In many ways I like this. It allows you to solo in pvp and pve quite well. It allows you to play with a very loose collection of players without demanding a specific group configuration. But it does have drawbacks and leads to this problem of too much healing in pvp. Everyone can do it to some extent.

To those calling for an end to cross healing, think carefully if you really want that. This game is fantastic in that anyone with a few minutes to play can jump right into the action and zerg surf or look for some fights somewhere without a great reliance on a certain group configuration.

If you ever played Dark Age of Camelot, for example. you'll remember that you couldn't pvp (or pve) at all without being grouped with at least one healer. If no healers you knew were online, you'd stand at the base camp and spam LFG forever.

Surely ending cross healing can only make organized groups even more invincible.

DAoC is a game where roles actually have hard limits and meaning. Dps are solely reliant on tanks and healers to keep them alive, for they have 0 self healing, and healers and tanks do literally no damage in that game. ESO is not like that in that players have a great deal of access to damage mitigation, self healing, and damage regardless of "role". Addressing the issues with cross-healing and h.o.t stacking won't suddenly make DDs completely defenseless like in other games. I don't think anyone is suggesting to get rid of cross-healing altogether, but merely limiting it along with h.o.t.s. Therefore, players will still be able to hit one another with random RRs/Vigors regardless of their role.

There's no getting around the fact that organized groups will always be powerful. However, they are almost invincible now just by their access to infinite rotations of cross heals, h.o.t.s, aoe healing, and individual self-healing alone, regardless of their group compositions. At least if their heals were limited, then players might actually have more viable ways to pressure and input damage to organized groups without only relying on extreme burst to do it.

I agree with everything you said except that I do hear people calling for an end to cross healing all the time in Cyrodiil. "Cross healing needs to go!" and I'm not sure that's a good idea.

The HoT stacking, especially the rad regen spam, does get absurd. That's for sure.

A lot of times when I don't feel like being grouped and I'm distracted by a busy house, I'll just go heal the zergs and help siege or whatever. I love that about this game - that there is so much freedom and flexibility to just get out there and jump right into the action. From my observation, a lot of people do the same. Ending (or severely limiting) cross healing would certainly increase the pressure to be grouped with a certain configuration.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

its overtuned.

I think its just outright over tuned and very difficult to counter. Obviously cross healing is a whole other issue and very bad. When you can take a full combo from a damage build and just press one heal for full health its probably overtuned. When you full heal after that combo on a damage build its OBVIOUSLY overtuned.