How do you feel about card game PvP taking precedence over Battlegrounds next expansion?

charlieb

PvP taking a backseat to a card game. Insane. Imagine if WoW did this, the PvP community would be up in arms.

In other words, thank you ZOS. Card games > actual PvP. At least this forces rats to actually engage in PvP rather than just running to an objective no one is at.

RealLoveBVB

I don't know if you are serious with your question or just ranting. Because like this you don't leave much space for a constructive discussion.

charlieb

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

I don't know if you are serious with your question or just ranting. Because like this you don't leave much space for a constructive discussion.

How do you feel card game pvp taking precedence over battlegrounds next expansion?

MentalxHammer

I think it displays how massively out of touch the developers are with their community. ESO PvP is something extremely special but it’s being left to rot and die by the wayside for no good reason. The data on Steamcharts indicates the player base (of steam clients) dropped by around 30% the month after the chapter reveal. This is the lowest the population has been in 3 years. Considering the very poor feedback the chapter release had, one can’t help but think the decision to create a card game instead of releasing actual content played a huge factor in the population drop off of ESO.

The most absurd thing of all to me is that the card game will have a ranked matchmaking system with incentives and rewards day 1, but 8 years into the game 1v1 dueling is a player driven experience with no incentives whatsoever.

WordsOfPower

MentalxHammer wrote: »

I think it displays how massively out of touch the developers are with their community. ESO PvP is something extremely special but it’s being left to rot and die by the wayside for no good reason. The data on Steamcharts indicates the player base (of steam clients) dropped by around 30% the month after the chapter reveal. This is the lowest the population has been in 3 years. Considering the very poor feedback the chapter release had, one can’t help but think the decision to create a card game instead of releasing actual content played a huge factor in the population drop off of ESO.

The most absurd thing of all to me is that the card game will have a ranked matchmaking system with incentives and rewards day 1, but 8 years into the game 1v1 dueling is a player driven experience with no incentives whatsoever.

This ^^ times fifty

I'm going to make a full video about this soon, but this post makes me wanna put this out right now.

This is a list of what each part of the game has had in the almost 5 years since the introduction of BGs in August 2017 (left off this list are things that affect both parts of the game or are arguably 100% cosmetic)

- - - PVE developments - - -

9 Zone stories
5 Trials
9 DLCs worth of Group Dungeons (18 total)
1 Group Arena
1 Solo Arena
Innumerable smaller things like Harrowstorms, Overland content

And they will soon get a cardgame

- - - PVP developments - - -

A couple more BG maps
Volendrung (which arguably has turned out to be a net negative, since it affects performance significantly)



Just looking at these 2 lists, you can see the size of the insult.

If we had received a couple of new BG maps, or IC had gotten some love, or Cyro had been properly fixed, we would be happy EVEN THOUGH our list was much smaller.

But in 56 MONTHS, we've had so little that it is an unbelievable sign of loyalty and how much we love this game that we are even still playing.

But it can't last forever.

I really fear (and believe) that by this time next year there won't be anyone left to write messages such as these, and therefore no one really left to read them either.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin do you really want this game to be entirely PvE?

Do you not realise how good of a PvP game you COULD have, with just a little love?

Please save this game. It's in your hands.

_adhyffbjjjf12

the problem is that it needs far more than a little love. The PVP in this game is fundamentally unfriendly to new players due to gear sets, animation cancel/spamming, game performance and BG format. Fix all that and the player base would increase giving scope to invest in PVP.

Synaptic

charlieb wrote: »

PvP taking a backseat to a card game. Insane. Imagine if WoW did this, the PvP community would be up in arms.

In other words, thank you ZOS. Card games > actual PvP. At least this forces rats to actually engage in PvP rather than just running to an objective no one is at.

This coming from a game that used to boast a "unique PvP experience" is like a slap in the face to the PvP community.

FakeFox

I think it is a self fulfilling prophecy. PvP is lacking rewards, features and polish, because ZOS doesn't want to invest in it, because there is not enough player interest, because it is lacking rewards, features and polish, because...

_adhyffbjjjf12

arguable order of preference for PVP fixes assuming resource is no issue:

- Create curated set of builds and stats, switch off food/pots. - Normalise PVP gear and stats in effect so its a level playing fields for all including new players and skill is the key aspect of success
- Also removes 1 shot builds and unkillable tanks.
- Code scalability (server code / net code /DB data structure/ animation cancelling/ input lag etc)
- Restrict API/Plugins that gives an unreasonable advantage over non plugin players.
- BG game formats, 2 teams versus 3 teams etc.
- BG reward ladders to encourage repeat play beyond dailies
- BG random format selection based on weighted odds dependent on participating player preferences.

And finally when the population supports it, split queues.

Necrotech_Master

FakeFox wrote: »

I think it is a self fulfilling prophecy. PvP is lacking rewards, features and polish, because ZOS doesn't want to invest in it, because there is not enough player interest, because it is lacking rewards, features and polish, because...

i think the better term for that is "vicious cycle" lol (or negative feedback loop)

edit: spelling, more terms lol

VaranisArano

Personally?

I suspect it's gonna go the same way as Battlegrounds.

Initially limited to the people who bought High Isle and who like card games means that the population is too small to stay competitive/interesting once the completionists have exhausted the rewards. Eventually, ZOS caves and makes it a base game feature, at which point everyone who bought the Chapter asks "Why the heck did I pay cash for a card game?"

Maybe I'm wrong about how popular it'll be and how much staying power it has. For ZOS' sake, I rather hope so.

Synaptic

VaranisArano wrote: »

Personally?

I suspect it's gonna go the same way as Battlegrounds.

Initially limited to the people who bought High Isle and who like card games means that the population is too small to stay competitive/interesting once the completion issue have exhausted the rewards. Eventually, ZOS caves and makes it a base game feature, at which point everyone who bought the Chapter asks "Why the heck did I pay cash for a card game?"

Maybe I'm wrong about how popular it'll be and how much staying power it has. For ZOS' sake, I rather hope so.

Judging by the polls that have been made in General Discussion it doesn't look like it's going to be very popular.

propertyOfUndefined

I used to play Star Wars The Old Republic. I remember back in 2013 or 2014 they decided to release a new pvp game mode called Galactic Starfighter — where you piloted a ship and engaged other players in space combat. The problem was it was a game within the game that felt completely disconnected and inconsequential — like that terminal in fallout 4 that let you play some old school donkey kong. Sure, it was pretty nifty, but you got nothing out of it in the context of the larger game.

The rewards you got from Galactic Starfighter were things like ship upgrades that in no way benefited your character outside of this game mode. I tried to get into it, but it just kept losing players, and in the end, just felt like a forgotten aspect of the game. Then the game introduced 4v4 ranked arena matches for fans of the original instanced pvp, and that flourished.

I worry that this card game might be making the same mistake. Mini games like excavation and even fishing have a place in the game because they affect your character with the potential to acquire mythic items and crafting materials. Sure hope I’m wrong, but it does feel like it might be headed down the same path.

TechMaybeHic

Wasn't expecting anything for current PVP. It's just another niche system being added and I don't find it related at all.

gariondavey

WordsOfPower wrote: »

MentalxHammer wrote: »

I think it displays how massively out of touch the developers are with their community. ESO PvP is something extremely special but it’s being left to rot and die by the wayside for no good reason. The data on Steamcharts indicates the player base (of steam clients) dropped by around 30% the month after the chapter reveal. This is the lowest the population has been in 3 years. Considering the very poor feedback the chapter release had, one can’t help but think the decision to create a card game instead of releasing actual content played a huge factor in the population drop off of ESO.

The most absurd thing of all to me is that the card game will have a ranked matchmaking system with incentives and rewards day 1, but 8 years into the game 1v1 dueling is a player driven experience with no incentives whatsoever.

This ^^ times fifty

I'm going to make a full video about this soon, but this post makes me wanna put this out right now.

This is a list of what each part of the game has had in the almost 5 years since the introduction of BGs in August 2017 (left off this list are things that affect both parts of the game or are arguably 100% cosmetic)

- - - PVE developments - - -

9 Zone stories
5 Trials
9 DLCs worth of Group Dungeons (18 total)
1 Group Arena
1 Solo Arena
Innumerable smaller things like Harrowstorms, Overland content

And they will soon get a cardgame

- - - PVP developments - - -

A couple more BG maps
Volendrung (which arguably has turned out to be a net negative, since it affects performance significantly)



Just looking at these 2 lists, you can see the size of the insult.

If we had received a couple of new BG maps, or IC had gotten some love, or Cyro had been properly fixed, we would be happy EVEN THOUGH our list was much smaller.

But in 56 MONTHS, we've had so little that it is an unbelievable sign of loyalty and how much we love this game that we are even still playing.

But it can't last forever.

I really fear (and believe) that by this time next year there won't be anyone left to write messages such as these, and therefore no one really left to read them either.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin do you really want this game to be entirely PvE?

Do you not realise how good of a PvP game you COULD have, with just a little love?

Please save this game. It's in your hands.

Amen!

Amottica

ESO does not have the PvP community WoW has and the card game has not taken the place of working on PvP at all as Zenimax likely has very few plans even as possible things they may one day work in concerning PvP outside of trying, attempting, to improve server performance.

SkaraMinoc

The card game is the new ESO "PvP". Didn't you get the memo? Soon they will add another Forum Category "Tales of Tribute" and shift the Battlegrounds forums down the page even further into neglect.

DarcyMardin

Just like battlegrounds, which I have never even tried, the card game is another “feature” of ESO in which I have zero interest.

But have fun, those who do care!

Synaptic

DarcyMardin wrote: »

Just like battlegrounds, which I have never even tried, the card game is another “feature” of ESO in which I have zero interest.

But have fun, those who do care!

Thanks for stopping by to let us know.

Dem_kitkats1

It's very sad that they didn't have this much foresight when they introduced BGs into the game. A ranked matchmaking system should have been put into place long ago, along with incentives and rewards, and updates to content. It's frustrating to see how profitable PvP based games are, but they've been so blind to it that they've dug themselves into a deep hole.

I get that players are understandably angry at the years of neglect, but at this point the combat just needs to work in PvP. Other than adding more rewards, or implementing more events, there's no point in reworking maps and modes, or adding a ranking system, or new content when the base game is broken. Players couldn't even enjoy new content, when firing their skills properly, and lag/desync would still be a massive issue. And it seems like everytime they add new content, performance gets worse. What is frustrating is that instead of focusing on the massive issues at hand, they allocated time and resources to something players didn't ask for.

jaws343

I mean, they very directly told us before the start of the year that ZERO pvp functions would be added this year. It was as clear as they could possibly be about it. Nothing will happen with PVP until they finish the re architecture. Nothing.

Nothing means nothing. So, they didn't add a card game in lieu of doing anything about PVP. They are attempting to do something about PVP by fixing the architecture, and they also gave us a card game. The two have practically nothing to do with one another.

And again, they said we would get nothing for PVP like 5 months ago. So I don't understand why people are all of a sudden forgetting this and expecting something. It's very dumb. They are doing exactly what they told us they would be doing, which is nothing for PVP.

SkaraMinoc

jaws343 wrote: »

I mean, they very directly told us before the start of the year that ZERO pvp functions would be added this year. It was as clear as they could possibly be about it. Nothing will happen with PVP until they finish the re architecture. Nothing.

Nothing means nothing. So, they didn't add a card game in lieu of doing anything about PVP. They are attempting to do something about PVP by fixing the architecture, and they also gave us a card game. The two have practically nothing to do with one another.

And again, they said we would get nothing for PVP like 5 months ago. So I don't understand why people are all of a sudden forgetting this and expecting something. It's very dumb. They are doing exactly what they told us they would be doing, which is nothing for PVP.

https://youtu.be/rWrlAmT4jyA?t=3

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings everyone!

We've closed this thread as it violates our rules regarding Baiting/Trolling. We understand that everyone has their own opinions that they want to express, but we also want the forums to be a constructive platform for ESO and its community.

We would be happy to entertain this discussion, if it was presented in a fashion that is constructive and doesn't violate the Community Rules

Thank you for your understanding, and please keep the Community Rules in mind when posting on the forums.