Stamsorc getting weaker?

Draevik

Seems like Stamsorc is at a standstill while other classes are getting buffs... and NOW they nerfed Crystal Weapon so you can't stack it with Imbued weapon? Why? I barely ever see any Stamsorcs in BGs. It is nothing but DKs, Temps, Wardens.

Crystal Weapon is probably the weakest class spammable in the game with weak bonuses to using it. I don't mind that it only triggers off of light or heavies, that allows a burst build. Why can't we have a GOOD debuff attached to it.

With the upcoming buffs to Templars that is going to make them god-tier. The most overloaded hardest hitting class spammable in the game with major buffs attached, snare, it's own proc.

Class balance is getting pretty bad.

Neoauspex

To be honest, I do better on live without pairing crystal weapon with imbued weapon. You can still line up a bigger heavy attack-> dawny burst than the javelin-> meteor combo we're all gonna get ubiquitously, albeit it's harder to land.

I think with the resource scaling changes stamsorc is gonna be able to use some extremely effective skills/combos, just people haven't discovered or aren't talking about them much yet.

One_Bad_Bosmer

Honestly, as I stamsorc main I find the class being absolutely left in the dust patch after patch. Forget about the days of wearing 5 medium. One good snare or CC and it’s all over. I get it we are a quick class but I feel with that and dark deal plus streak is all the class has. Crystal weapon is decent but try making it work in laggy situations. So yes OP stamsorc is getting weaker in the grand scheme of things, especially with every class getting insane amounts of buffs. I wish they never changed the original bound armaments. The new version is trash and hardly worth running. Spectral daggers? Not very original seeing as nightblade has the spectral bow. The class lacks in areas of defence and survivability. I find my self very saddened by the current state of the stamina sorcerer. Such a shame because it’s my favourite class and I don’t wanna play anything else.

I have to run 5 pariah on the body just to hope that I can take a few hits before I have to streak away and dark deal lol. It breaks my heart to be here seeing as I’ve mained this class for years. It’s honestly in poor shape. I’ve spoken with many friends and guild mates and they all call it a trash class that can’t take a hit lol. and I find it hard to be a brawler no matter how I build it.

Here’s hoping zos has plans for this truly unique and amazing class. I’m losing hope for it and not sure what else to do. I mean other than to play a warden or dk but I find those classes boring tbh. Maybe I’m just burning out but it’s definitely not on par with other classes in this game. That much is certain.

Larcomar

The class just got a big buff, albeit an indirect one. I'm still working all the implications of the hybrization stuff through but stamsorc looks the big winner. It gets way more out of it than other classes from what i can see. Haunting curse gives you delayed burst. Mages wrath gives you a ranged finisher. And you can finally dump clanfear and take VF for dps and twilight matriach for heals. I mean, it's really opens things up. On top of which, stamsorc still has the best mobility in the game, and a never ending supply of stamina. And, in case we forget, a gap closer / escape tool that does AOE damage. And stuns... Sure they stopped the crystal wep - imbued wep - overload crap. But that was kind of silly anyway....

katorga

Larcomar wrote: »

The class just got a big buff, albeit an indirect one. I'm still working all the implications of the hybrization stuff through but stamsorc looks the big winner. It gets way more out of it than other classes from what i can see. Haunting curse gives you delayed burst. Mages wrath gives you a ranged finisher. And you can finally dump clanfear and take VF for dps and twilight matriach for heals. I mean, it's really opens things up. On top of which, stamsorc still has the best mobility in the game, and a never ending supply of stamina. And, in case we forget, a gap closer / escape tool that does AOE damage. And stuns... Sure they stopped the crystal wep - imbued wep - overload crap. But that was kind of silly anyway....

Sorc had the most delineated separation between mag and stam morphs, and few stam morphs, so it gains more from hybridization. Lots of sources of % resource buffs...nice for hybrid.

But, sorc is heavily focused on shields and trading one resource for the other - not too good in the hybrid world. Being single target focused, it gets depressing to see a necro roll in and get 20 kills at once.

That said, using hurricane on my mag sorc gives me more speed, larger range for procing crit surge. Bound armaments adds more burst, 10% higher light attacks (overload....). On the stamina side, I get a mountain of new, ranged delayed burst.

xylena_lazarow

I played a stamsorc to GO and have only seen it get weaker and weaker the past couple years.

1) Half a toolkit worth of passives, no coherent offensive toolkit, relies on heavily nerfed damage procs
2) Crit Surge's functionality was never buffed to offset the blanket PvE nerfs to player crit chance
3) Health regen gutted, cutting one of your best passives in half, was never buffed to compensate
4) Speed creep in the meta has mostly eliminated stamsorc's mobility advantage
5) Crowded bars make it very difficult to fit things like a desperately needed Major Crit buff
6) Taking advantage of hybridization requires a much heavier investment in your off stat than say, stamcro
7) Yes you can stack Spell Crit to gain the advantage of Minor Prophecy, but it will warp your build
8) Rending Slashes and Consuming Trap no longer benefit from the class Physical Damage buff

My sdk with Race Against Time does everything better than my stamsorc, including kiting. The one thing stamsorc does uniquely well is "hold SnB/ice block while alternating Streak and Vigor" to survive tough situations, so if you're still determined to play one, start from that concept.

Vaoh

I think overall it’s better to not think in terms of Mag or Stam anymore. Sticking strictly with one or the another kinda gimps you vs building with hybrid in mind. Even in PvE I’m seeing a mix of Stam and Mag skills now.

It’s moreso ranged vs melee.

One_Bad_Bosmer

Vaoh wrote: »

I think overall it’s better to not think in terms of Mag or Stam anymore. Sticking strictly with one or the another kinda gimps you vs building with hybrid in mind. Even in PvE I’m seeing a mix of Stam and Mag skills now.

It’s moreso ranged vs melee.

That’s the thing with the new update. I haven’t played it as I’m on xbone. But how many mag skills would I run? Lol it would be more beneficial to just roll a mag sorc. This hybrid junk just further takes more of stam sorcs identity away. Not to mention having to spec more into mag and sacrifice core skills on an already very limited skill bar. So I guess I can say a little prayer and bury this class. If that’s the case, it may be high time to find a new hobby lol.

Vaoh

One_Bad_Bosmer wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

I think overall it’s better to not think in terms of Mag or Stam anymore. Sticking strictly with one or the another kinda gimps you vs building with hybrid in mind. Even in PvE I’m seeing a mix of Stam and Mag skills now.

It’s moreso ranged vs melee.

That’s the thing with the new update. I haven’t played it as I’m on xbone. But how many mag skills would I run? Lol it would be more beneficial to just roll a mag sorc. This hybrid junk just further takes more of stam sorcs identity away. Not to mention having to spec more into mag and sacrifice core skills on an already very limited skill bar. So I guess I can say a little prayer and bury this class. If that’s the case, it may be high time to find a new hobby lol.

No that’s the thing..... it’s not really “Stam sorc” or “Mag sorc”. It’s just a Sorc. You have many more build choices than before but only one class spec.

This is nice but we need more classes. Just another reason why the chapter giving us a card game is a massive disappointment.
.

Tiphis

The issue with stamsorc is that everything it has, nearly every other class can do better. Every class has better healing even nightblades. Dk, necro, warden and templars have better defensives, nb has cloak. Stamsorc definitely has potential but quite honestly I can barely fit everything onto both bars to get a solid setup. There's a reason stamsorc is so rare, I probably see maybe 1 out of every 30 players. On most of my toons stamsorcs are not a threat at all.

Stamsorcs have 3 things going for them.

1. Burst: which isn't at all easy to line up curtesy of being forced into either dswing or snipe. Curse>Crystal weapon>Dswing>Medium Attack>Executioner is definitely among the best combos out there but is also one of the most telegraphed. In order to have everything land you are going to need to be able to survive to go for that combo multiple times, because it won't land the first time against any skilled player.

2. Mobility: easy to get on any build and is only good until it isn't. Good for pvpotatoes but not that useful in other situations. If in a 1v1 you are forced to kite for awhile you already lost and are just delaying the inevitable or just running away. In most cases you are either dying now with low mobility or dying later with a lot. It can give you a lot of survivability with los but very rarely do you then have the opportunity to actually kill anybody that's not potatoes. I use to love kiting around streaking under oils at sej fd to defend. Was able to tank fairly large numbers simply by being fast enough. Only ever got any kills with executioner after oils/siege did most of the work. And again is so very easy to get on any build.

3. Sustain: dark deal is amazing. Truly unparalled sustain. But sustain unto itself is only so useful, there's a reason that very rarely are sustain glyphs used. Only sustain set I see is wretched on stamdens. Torc is a boatload of sustain and even then isn't that common. This is definitely the standout aspect of stamsorc but isn't enough to make up for the other faults.

xDeusEJRx

Stamsorc is still a good class but it's comparatively worse now than how it was 1 year ago

Stamsorc 1 year ago:
Had really powerful defense because of ball of lightning
Had high mobility because of their speed they could stack being only class (besides templar) with minor expedition in their toolkit, and ball of lightning providing more mobility on top of that
Pretty good damage passives allowing for a good damage
Decent sustain because of dark dealing
Amazing burst because of dizzying swing crystal weapon combo
Health regen from class passives

Stamsorc now:
Gimped defense because ball of lightning was nerfed into the ground
Mobility is no longer king on this class because now everyone has same mobility as you because of celerity CP and therefore everyone is able to match StamSorc in speed without needing minor expedition
Damage passives are still good
Health regen passive nerfed due to the high HP regen meta
Sustain is still good
Burst combo is also still the same (except the damage means less now because of the mitigation changes)

I think the reason stam sorc lacks is because they're one of the classes left behind receiving only nerfs and no buffs to the class in 2021 and therefore it feels lacking compared to everything else. Nightblades(mag and stam) got a buff, Dragonknights(mag and stam) got a buff, Templars(mag and stam) got a buff

Losing their edge of being the mobile class, plus losing the major defense you got from ball of lightning while also being one of the few classes to get no subsequent buffs made them fall behind other classes. Health regen got nerfed because of the changes to health regen in CP also gutted the class as well. It's still viable but they got essentially got slammed with nerfs

Though stam sorc can now use curse so using dizzying swing + curse + crystal weapon can lead to an even better burst than before, nothing else but nerfs for the spec

One_Bad_Bosmer

Tiphis wrote: »

The issue with stamsorc is that everything it has, nearly every other class can do better. Every class has better healing even nightblades. Dk, necro, warden and templars have better defensives, nb has cloak. Stamsorc definitely has potential but quite honestly I can barely fit everything onto both bars to get a solid setup. There's a reason stamsorc is so rare, I probably see maybe 1 out of every 30 players. On most of my toons stamsorcs are not a threat at all.

Stamsorcs have 3 things going for them.

1. Burst: which isn't at all easy to line up curtesy of being forced into either dswing or snipe. Curse>Crystal weapon>Dswing>Medium Attack>Executioner is definitely among the best combos out there but is also one of the most telegraphed. In order to have everything land you are going to need to be able to survive to go for that combo multiple times, because it won't land the first time against any skilled player.

2. Mobility: easy to get on any build and is only good until it isn't. Good for pvpotatoes but not that useful in other situations. If in a 1v1 you are forced to kite for awhile you already lost and are just delaying the inevitable or just running away. In most cases you are either dying now with low mobility or dying later with a lot. It can give you a lot of survivability with los but very rarely do you then have the opportunity to actually kill anybody that's not potatoes. I use to love kiting around streaking under oils at sej fd to defend. Was able to tank fairly large numbers simply by being fast enough. Only ever got any kills with executioner after oils/siege did most of the work. And again is so very easy to get on any build.

3. Sustain: dark deal is amazing. Truly unparalled sustain. But sustain unto itself is only so useful, there's a reason that very rarely are sustain glyphs used. Only sustain set I see is wretched on stamdens. Torc is a boatload of sustain and even then isn't that common. This is definitely the standout aspect of stamsorc but isn't enough to make up for the other faults.

This and all this right here! Excellent insight my friend. So true, nightblades, dks and templars are now god tier and ranked up there with both warden and necros. I admit magsorc is strong but most of the sorcerers passives cater to them. They threw us a bone with the reworking of crystal blast and bound armaments. But made us squish tier along with nightblades. However they have the ultimate defence imho; stealth. I really hope zos has plans to help this class out. As is of today, stamsorcs are a rare animal and do not cater to new players or vets alike. Just my two cents tho.

Draevik

That was a lot of replies! Thanks for the feedback all.

Yes absolutely, StamSorc does gain the use of Haunting Curse, and even Mines. But other than aligning a perfect combo most of the time you aren't gaining a ton from it, and then you need to find space for it.

You running a crit build well most likely running Bound Armor for both your regen and HP increase and Camo hunter, or inner light. 2 slots gone right there on the primary bar.

Also I don't know if anyone noticed but the Crushing Weapon now gets Major Breach, making it superior to Crystal weapon. Good work devs lol!

Point being most of the time I find it frustrating just filling up my bars with things that will give me buffs from my skill lines or passives to fill the gaps. Most other classes have easier access to these things or don't have to have things on both bars to have access to passive buffs.

1. Why can't crystal weapon give major savagery and prophecy. Then it would actually be useful.
2. Critsurge, is becoming less useful with the constant nerfs to crit and the increased difficulty in building for it. Perhaps it is time to increase the healing?
3. Why is Bound Aegis block mitigation only 3 seconds? Why not 10?
4. Why not change Bound Armaments to have multiple uses instead of the one that throws 5 daggers, have 5 charges that each throw one. Increase the damage a bit and allow you to have 5 casts of the skill once built up, 15% base skill cost does not follow GCD. Lowers armor by 400 per dagger. It would make it unique and useful.
5. Why not change it so the health increase and regen portions of skill lines be added incrementally one for each sorc skill slotted. That way you don't NEED to run ONE specific skill just to have access to specific buffs. But it still requires sorc skills to be used. This maintains the theme of using sorc skills to attain the passive buffs but gives access to more build diversity.
6. Why can't pets just be temporary? This way we can slot them on one bar only. Increase the cost and make them last 30 seconds, the heal/damage portion of the skill would remain the same. They would have to make the base summon skill not usable until the cooldown has expired, heck even retain the cast time. While you are at it make them non-targettable because they are a nightmare in PVP for other players to deal with. Otherwise they may be used way too extensively to abuse LOS.

Larcomar

Hmmm.... a few thoughts. If "nightblades, dks and templars are now god tier and ranked up there with both warden and necros" that says to me that the game's pretty well balanced. I mean, 5 out of 6 classes ain't bad going. Better than most MMO's I've played. But then, as Bad Bosmer says, almost everyone would add magsorcs to that list - they certainly do pretty well from what I've seen. So it's just stamsrocs then... I imagine zos would be happy to hear that. An A- at least. But are stamsorcs somehow, of all the classes, uniquely bad?

I was thinking about this and playing around with the new stuff so took my stamsorc into cyro for whirl last night. Kind of just wanted to jump in so didn't do it "properly." Just put points in the new skills we got, ran an RND to level them to morph pt, and then loaded him up with some basic sets I had lying around - spriggans, eternal vigor, the double restore monster shoulder thingie and malacath. Sure there's way better load outs. I think I was comfortably oversustaining.

Overall though, he kicked butt. I've always thought he was huge fun and pretty good but the new stuff - esp haunting curse and mages wrath - really improved his burst. I started with crystal wep but gave up with the lag and just shoved silver shards on but he was still doing well. Pretty casual skirmishing, some big zergs, some small scale stuff, a few one on ones. But then how many people (beyond the confines of this forum or your favorite streamer) really like running round and round towers "1vx'ing" all day long.

Not all was rosy - I learned pretty rapidly to just avoid templars. They seemed to just shrug off my burst - literally -and then, bam, toppling charge, crescent sweep, jabs jabs jabs... Oh and then potl hits. Joy. But then again, find me a class that doesn't struggle a bit with templars right now. I think everyone would agree they're a tad overtuned... The rest though, I felt he did pretty well. Enjoyed hunting down NBs, left a couple of confused looking DK's in my wake and nuked one necro down nicely though someone came along at the end. Curiously though I don't think I even saw a warden. That says something....

But... (there's always a but). Fun as it was - and I think stamsorc is definitely near the top for fun factor - there was a little niggle in the back of mind. Someone up above said "Lol it would be more beneficial to just roll a mag sorc. " Um. Yeah. I thought he did pretty well. Not top tier maybe. But def holding his own. But I can't help but wonder if he'd done better if I just slapped on an inferno staff, spammmed crushing shock and added crystal frags into the mix. It might be more of a wash if crystal wep was reliable. But it just isn't the moment there's any lag.

Tldr - Stamsorcs arn't getting weaker. They're a lot stronger now. It's just that you might just go the extra 10 yards and become a magsorc...

That said, I don't really want another magsorc. My mains a magsorc. Given I'm not planning to abandon mr stamsorc (just yet) I thought worth just responding on Draevik's 6 pts. Some good ideas but some stuff that worried me.

- Why can't crystal weapon give major savagery and prophecy? - I honestly hadn't picked up it gave major breach. Are you sure? I think that's actually pretty darn good. Much better. But... I really just want it to be fun and reliable to use. I'd honestly prefer it was just a straight forward spammable ability. I never like ele wep and really didn't want a reskin of it.

- Critsurge? - +100% It used to be a really unique thing for sorcs as a whole. Then they introduced pale order and everyone basically had crit surge. Just better.

- Why is Bound Aegis block mitigation only 3 seconds? Why not 10? - yes, but why would you use it over bound armaments now? I wonder if it needs to be reworked entirely.

- Why not change Bound Armaments to have multiple uses instead of the one that throws 5 daggers, have 5 charges that each throw one. - Burst. The last thing I want to do is have to press it five times. Even if somehow (?) this doesn't take up one of my GCDs. Like I say though, if we're trying to create a spammable type thing, just improve crystal wep.

- Why not change it so the health increase and regen portions of skill lines be added incrementally one for each sorc skill slotted. That way you don't NEED to run ONE specific skill just to have access to specific buffs. .... Not quite sure what you mean. But that sounds like I end up runnign more things I don't want? On an already crowded bar.

- Why can't pets just be temporary? - uggghh Yeah the main one that made me go "noooo." Please don't turn my magsorc into a necro. I spend way to long keeping buffs up as it is. One bar pets is what we shd be pushing for. But a pet, for me, is something that's there 24/7. ESO does pets badly as it is - they're dots that just follow you around for the main part. I really don't want to encourage them to make them even more dot like.

I honestly don't know what the "solution" is. I don't think stamsorcs are in as bad a place as others think, but I'm coming round to the view they do need something. Not so much for balance - I think the issues there are mainly around templars right now, cross healing and maybe NB cloak - as for uniqueness.

Someone else said "I think overall it’s better to not think in terms of Mag or Stam anymore... It’s more so ranged vs melee." There's a lot to that. We're in a new world now. But I wonder if it's a bit more specific - what spammable you use. That's what you probably focus most on. It's alot of what makes things like my dk, nbs and temps feel unique. And why my stam classes often feel quite similar. I'd start with crystal wep maybe

Tiphis

Larcomar wrote: »

Hmmm.... a few thoughts. If "nightblades, dks and templars are now god tier and ranked up there with both warden and necros" that says to me that the game's pretty well balanced. I mean, 5 out of 6 classes ain't bad going. Better than most MMO's I've played. But then, as Bad Bosmer says, almost everyone would add magsorcs to that list - they certainly do pretty well from what I've seen. So it's just stamsrocs then... I imagine zos would be happy to hear that. An A- at least. But are stamsorcs somehow, of all the classes, uniquely bad?

I was thinking about this and playing around with the new stuff so took my stamsorc into cyro for whirl last night. Kind of just wanted to jump in so didn't do it "properly." Just put points in the new skills we got, ran an RND to level them to morph pt, and then loaded him up with some basic sets I had lying around - spriggans, eternal vigor, the double restore monster shoulder thingie and malacath. Sure there's way better load outs. I think I was comfortably oversustaining.

I'm sure you oversustained, you simply had no damage or defensive sets, and no spriggans doesn't count as it's become obsolete in every sense of the word.

Larcomar wrote: »

Overall though, he kicked butt. I've always thought he was huge fun and pretty good but the new stuff - esp haunting curse and mages wrath - really improved his burst. I started with crystal wep but gave up with the lag and just shoved silver shards on but he was still doing well. Pretty casual skirmishing, some big zergs, some small scale stuff, a few one on ones. But then how many people (beyond the confines of this forum or your favorite streamer) really like running round and round towers "1vx'ing" all day long.

Not all was rosy - I learned pretty rapidly to just avoid templars. They seemed to just shrug off my burst - literally -and then, bam, toppling charge, crescent sweep, jabs jabs jabs... Oh and then potl hits. Joy. But then again, find me a class that doesn't struggle a bit with templars right now. I think everyone would agree they're a tad overtuned... The rest though, I felt he did pretty well.

Enjoyed hunting down NBs

Every class that survives their burst or pops a pot can get the bad nbs, with your build I'm surprised you didn't just flop over dead when they opened on you.

Larcomar wrote: »

left a couple of confused looking DK's in my wake

So you ran away?

Larcomar wrote: »

and nuked one necro down nicely though someone came along at the end.

You're basing your judgement on fighting necros after fighting 1? And there's plenty of magcros around, not sure how long you were playing when you only managed to fight 1.

Larcomar wrote: »

Curiously though I don't think I even saw a warden. That says something....

... Okay I don't think you played long enough to have an actual sense of the class, did you play for 10 mins and call it wraps?

Larcomar wrote: »

But... (there's always a but). Fun as it was - and I think stamsorc is definitely near the top for fun factor

Definitely, I love my stamsorc. Just wish I can hold my own against even the halfway decent players on other classes.

Larcomar wrote: »

Tldr - Stamsorcs arn't getting weaker. They're a lot stronger now.

With the weakest defensive kit in the game? Coupled with the most telegraphed burst? Combined with one of the worst sustained damage?

Larcomar wrote: »

It's just that you might just go the extra 10 yards and become a magsorc...

That said, I don't really want another magsorc. My mains a magsorc. Given I'm not planning to abandon mr stamsorc (just yet) I thought worth just responding on Draevik's 6 pts. Some good ideas but some stuff that worried me.

- Why can't crystal weapon give major savagery and prophecy? - I honestly hadn't picked up it gave major breach. Are you sure? I think that's actually pretty darn good. Much better. But... I really just want it to be fun and reliable to use. I'd honestly prefer it was just a straight forward spammable ability. I never like ele wep and really didn't want a reskin of it.

- Critsurge? - +100% It used to be a really unique thing for sorcs as a whole. Then they introduced pale order and everyone basically had crit surge. Just better.

Not to mention with the removal of crit chance from medium, crit chance is lower than ever.

*I am intrinsically removing the base damage done 5% from 10% base crit and 50% base crit damage done after the total calculation* As any other build besides the 2 mentioned here would have that base 5% more damage done.

If I run briarheart (6% more crit chance), camo hunter (12%), and the unslotted cp (1.5%) for it, you get up to a total of 29.5% crit chance. With 5 medium crit damage modifiers, that's a total increased damage of 13% + 5% from minor berserk. For a 2 piece, 4 piece and 1 ability slot on only 1 bar. Malacath is a double barred 11% increase in damage done. Crit seems better right? But wait... crit resist. Base crit resist now drops the crit build total damage done to 7%+5% from camo hunter. Now malacath starts to outperform it. With rallying cry set (now total damage done is 5.5% vs 11% from malacath) becoming meta for small scale and getting some use even in solo, any additional impen on armor, any use of the crit resist cp and crit builds are left for basically only gankblades.

You know what's even funnier? Guess the only class that has no passive/active modifiers to crit? Stamsorc.

dinokstrunz

Most of the top stam sorcs I see are still performing well with the Bow Sorc build, it's extremely powerful in 1v1 and in BGs
I do agree that playing Stam Sorc outside of bow sorc is pretty lackluster nowadays.

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/syw9rp/comprehensive_stamina_sorcerer_pvp_guide_bowbow/

One of the best guides available for Bow Sorc as well as one of the best Bow Sorc players.

Larcomar

I think you might have missed the point But to be fair it was a long and slightly rambling post. Blame saturday morning. And lack of coffee. My apologies.

The qu was is stamsorc weaker given the changes? Honestly, I'm struggling to see that. Well, there's the crystal wep change I suppose. But there's a lot more options now. I just wanted to try them out. Granted, I only ran mine a short session, maybe 2 - 3 hours. But still. Ive put alot of time in on him before the patch. He felt a lot stronger post patch. Wearing obsolete gear.

Like I say though, wasn't really the point. What I was trying to get at - and probably failed, banging on - was the more mag stuff you load up on, the more you're starting to question why play stamsorc over magsorc. Or indeed if you still *are* playing a stamsorc.

Draevik

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Most of the top stam sorcs I see are still performing well with the Bow Sorc build, it's extremely powerful in 1v1 and in BGs
I do agree that playing Stam Sorc outside of bow sorc is pretty lackluster nowadays.

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/syw9rp/comprehensive_stamina_sorcerer_pvp_guide_bowbow/

One of the best guides available for Bow Sorc as well as one of the best Bow Sorc players.

Being pigeon-holed into a singular playstyle is the last thing I or most anyone else wants. They just nerfed Crystal Weapon so you can't stack burst on people. I didn't even use the combo, but it jumped out at me in the patch notes. Mainly because every other class got a buff yet StamSorc cannot use two abilities in tandem.

Draevik

Larcomar wrote: »

I think you might have missed the point But to be fair it was a long and slightly rambling post. Blame saturday morning. And lack of coffee. My apologies.

The qu was is stamsorc weaker given the changes? Honestly, I'm struggling to see that. Well, there's the crystal wep change I suppose. But there's a lot more options now. I just wanted to try them out. Granted, I only ran mine a short session, maybe 2 - 3 hours. But still. Ive put alot of time in on him before the patch. He felt a lot stronger post patch. Wearing obsolete gear.

Like I say though, wasn't really the point. What I was trying to get at - and probably failed, banging on - was the more mag stuff you load up on, the more you're starting to question why play stamsorc over magsorc. Or indeed if you still *are* playing a stamsorc.

That's the point, to be effective you basically have to full transition into a Mag Sorc.

katorga

Draevik wrote: »

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Most of the top stam sorcs I see are still performing well with the Bow Sorc build, it's extremely powerful in 1v1 and in BGs
I do agree that playing Stam Sorc outside of bow sorc is pretty lackluster nowadays.

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/syw9rp/comprehensive_stamina_sorcerer_pvp_guide_bowbow/

One of the best guides available for Bow Sorc as well as one of the best Bow Sorc players.

Being pigeon-holed into a singular playstyle is the last thing I or most anyone else wants. They just nerfed Crystal Weapon so you can't stack burst on people. I didn't even use the combo, but it jumped out at me in the patch notes. Mainly because every other class got a buff yet StamSorc cannot use two abilities in tandem.

Dunno. I can stack curse, wrath, crystal just as well.

At the end of the day, single target is just too inefficient outside of duels and maybe BGs.

Draevik

katorga wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Most of the top stam sorcs I see are still performing well with the Bow Sorc build, it's extremely powerful in 1v1 and in BGs
I do agree that playing Stam Sorc outside of bow sorc is pretty lackluster nowadays.

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/syw9rp/comprehensive_stamina_sorcerer_pvp_guide_bowbow/

One of the best guides available for Bow Sorc as well as one of the best Bow Sorc players.

Being pigeon-holed into a singular playstyle is the last thing I or most anyone else wants. They just nerfed Crystal Weapon so you can't stack burst on people. I didn't even use the combo, but it jumped out at me in the patch notes. Mainly because every other class got a buff yet StamSorc cannot use two abilities in tandem.

Dunno. I can stack curse, wrath, crystal just as well.

At the end of the day, single target is just too inefficient outside of duels and maybe BGs.

Yes you can stack those 3 things but if for some reason you wanted to stack Imbued weapon they did away with that. Why do no other classes have skills completely unusable if they have something else active?

DKs and Templars are so far overtuned right now it is laughably bad. Who did testing and said yeah they are ok, lets nerf something on one of the weaker PVP classes.

katorga

Draevik wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Most of the top stam sorcs I see are still performing well with the Bow Sorc build, it's extremely powerful in 1v1 and in BGs
I do agree that playing Stam Sorc outside of bow sorc is pretty lackluster nowadays.

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/syw9rp/comprehensive_stamina_sorcerer_pvp_guide_bowbow/

One of the best guides available for Bow Sorc as well as one of the best Bow Sorc players.

Being pigeon-holed into a singular playstyle is the last thing I or most anyone else wants. They just nerfed Crystal Weapon so you can't stack burst on people. I didn't even use the combo, but it jumped out at me in the patch notes. Mainly because every other class got a buff yet StamSorc cannot use two abilities in tandem.

Dunno. I can stack curse, wrath, crystal just as well.

At the end of the day, single target is just too inefficient outside of duels and maybe BGs.

DKs and Templars are so far overtuned right now it is laughably bad. Who did testing and said yeah they are ok, lets nerf something on one of the weaker PVP classes.

My DK can stack burning embers and have as much healing as an entire ball group layering radiating, provided there are enough targets. Think about that. My sustain and healing are unlimited. It is broken in PVE, not just PVP.

Oh yeah, my fire heavy attack hits around 35K.

GarfieId

katorga wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Most of the top stam sorcs I see are still performing well with the Bow Sorc build, it's extremely powerful in 1v1 and in BGs
I do agree that playing Stam Sorc outside of bow sorc is pretty lackluster nowadays.

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/syw9rp/comprehensive_stamina_sorcerer_pvp_guide_bowbow/

One of the best guides available for Bow Sorc as well as one of the best Bow Sorc players.

Being pigeon-holed into a singular playstyle is the last thing I or most anyone else wants. They just nerfed Crystal Weapon so you can't stack burst on people. I didn't even use the combo, but it jumped out at me in the patch notes. Mainly because every other class got a buff yet StamSorc cannot use two abilities in tandem.

Dunno. I can stack curse, wrath, crystal just as well.

At the end of the day, single target is just too inefficient outside of duels and maybe BGs.

DKs and Templars are so far overtuned right now it is laughably bad. Who did testing and said yeah they are ok, lets nerf something on one of the weaker PVP classes.

My DK can stack burning embers and have as much healing as an entire ball group layering radiating, provided there are enough targets. Think about that. My sustain and healing are unlimited. It is broken in PVE, not just PVP.

Oh yeah, my fire heavy attack hits around 35K.

If you're stacking that many embers, there's a high chance that's all your doing. You won't be kill any of them any time soon. I don't understand how you would think they should stack, curse + imbude + crystal into a DB will all hit you at once, blocking or not that's a lot of damage.

Once again it's pretty clear why this doesn't apply to other classes, I mean your stacking abilities into a single cd without any other condition than casting them.

As for the heavies, I mean they take like 4 years to go off, with a sub par source of sorcery, at least entropy offers a nice dot.

I've seen a few stam sorcs here and there, hey hit hard and are hard to catch, most of them with a bow, while I do think they're numbers are low (as in people playing them), I don't think making imbude stack again will change that.

Should mention this is in the perspective of no-cp.

spacefracking

Draevik wrote: »

Seems like Stamsorc is at a standstill while other classes are getting buffs... and NOW they nerfed Crystal Weapon so you can't stack it with Imbued weapon? Why? I barely ever see any Stamsorcs in BGs. It is nothing but DKs, Temps, Wardens.

Crystal Weapon is probably the weakest class spammable in the game with weak bonuses to using it. I don't mind that it only triggers off of light or heavies, that allows a burst build. Why can't we have a GOOD debuff attached to it.

With the upcoming buffs to Templars that is going to make them god-tier. The most overloaded hardest hitting class spammable in the game with major buffs attached, snare, it's own proc.

Class balance is getting pretty bad.

Stamsorcs are parsing 130k on the trial atronach this patch, so I don't think a buff for pvp is going to happen. Given the damage potential, it might just be that stamsorcs aren't overpowered in pvp anymore.

xylena_lazarow

spacefracking wrote: »

Stamsorcs are parsing 130k on the trial atronach this patch, so I don't think a buff for pvp is going to happen. Given the damage potential, it might just be that stamsorcs aren't overpowered in pvp anymore.

If I could make one PvP stamsorc change, it would have nothing to do with how much damage they do, it would be to give them a morph of Surge that isn't tied to crit chance.

Draevik

GarfieId wrote: »

[ I don't think making imbude stack again will change that.

I am not asking them to change it back. That is the thing, I don't recall requesting it to be changed back.

The point i was making is that they nerfed something for one of the weaker PVP classes. And to add insult to injury buffed Crushing Weapon so it applies Major Breach. Then they proceeded to buff already very strong PVP classes.

It is simply a head scratcher as far as some of the change decisions go.

gariondavey

Stamsorc got huge buffs this patch. Huge.

Curse. Endless fury.

divnyi

gariondavey wrote: »

Stamsorc got huge buffs this patch. Huge.

Curse. Endless fury.

^ This. And stamsorc was never in a bad place to begin with. Literally every meta every patch I've seen such a strong stamsorcs in BGs that it leaves you wonder why you didn't master the class yet.

OP, if you want to stack crystal and imbued for burst, why not using Snipe instead? It basically does the same, 0.8s of charge time and in 0.2s you have next GCD, also more damage. Check this out:

https://youtu.be/aT-_CNI_kvg

Do notice that this vid is from the previous patch. Fury deals even more damage now with bigger crit.

katorga

GarfieId wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Most of the top stam sorcs I see are still performing well with the Bow Sorc build, it's extremely powerful in 1v1 and in BGs
I do agree that playing Stam Sorc outside of bow sorc is pretty lackluster nowadays.

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/syw9rp/comprehensive_stamina_sorcerer_pvp_guide_bowbow/

One of the best guides available for Bow Sorc as well as one of the best Bow Sorc players.

Being pigeon-holed into a singular playstyle is the last thing I or most anyone else wants. They just nerfed Crystal Weapon so you can't stack burst on people. I didn't even use the combo, but it jumped out at me in the patch notes. Mainly because every other class got a buff yet StamSorc cannot use two abilities in tandem.

Dunno. I can stack curse, wrath, crystal just as well.

At the end of the day, single target is just too inefficient outside of duels and maybe BGs.

DKs and Templars are so far overtuned right now it is laughably bad. Who did testing and said yeah they are ok, lets nerf something on one of the weaker PVP classes.

My DK can stack burning embers and have as much healing as an entire ball group layering radiating, provided there are enough targets. Think about that. My sustain and healing are unlimited. It is broken in PVE, not just PVP.

Oh yeah, my fire heavy attack hits around 35K.

If you're stacking that many embers, there's a high chance that's all your doing.

Well. Assume I cast embers on a target as often as I would have cast vigor. I get a longer hot, a DOT, 1000 mag, and I can layer it an unlimited number of times. I can self buff the damage by 38%, CP buff it 20%, for 58% increased healing. More if I dedicated sets to buffing dots.

I seem to average 2-4 embers running at any given time in open world combat. It is a lot of healing. Personally I feel like my DK has more healing power now than my Necro, and a lot more than my Sorc which has to sacrifice slots for single function heals like vigor/radiating/matriarch to approach those levels.

GarfieId

katorga wrote: »

GarfieId wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Most of the top stam sorcs I see are still performing well with the Bow Sorc build, it's extremely powerful in 1v1 and in BGs
I do agree that playing Stam Sorc outside of bow sorc is pretty lackluster nowadays.

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/syw9rp/comprehensive_stamina_sorcerer_pvp_guide_bowbow/

One of the best guides available for Bow Sorc as well as one of the best Bow Sorc players.

Being pigeon-holed into a singular playstyle is the last thing I or most anyone else wants. They just nerfed Crystal Weapon so you can't stack burst on people. I didn't even use the combo, but it jumped out at me in the patch notes. Mainly because every other class got a buff yet StamSorc cannot use two abilities in tandem.

Dunno. I can stack curse, wrath, crystal just as well.

At the end of the day, single target is just too inefficient outside of duels and maybe BGs.

DKs and Templars are so far overtuned right now it is laughably bad. Who did testing and said yeah they are ok, lets nerf something on one of the weaker PVP classes.

My DK can stack burning embers and have as much healing as an entire ball group layering radiating, provided there are enough targets. Think about that. My sustain and healing are unlimited. It is broken in PVE, not just PVP.

Oh yeah, my fire heavy attack hits around 35K.

If you're stacking that many embers, there's a high chance that's all your doing.

Well. Assume I cast embers on a target as often as I would have cast vigor. I get a longer hot, a DOT, 1000 mag, and I can layer it an unlimited number of times. I can self buff the damage by 38%, CP buff it 20%, for 58% increased healing. More if I dedicated sets to buffing dots.

I seem to average 2-4 embers running at any given time in open world combat. It is a lot of healing. Personally I feel like my DK has more healing power now than my Necro, and a lot more than my Sorc which has to sacrifice slots for single function heals like vigor/radiating/matriarch to approach those levels.

Just to clarify I'm not saying they have low healing or anything they have a lot of it in there kit especially if they run cinder storm, all I'm saying is to get that healing to a point where it heals more than a mutagen stacking zerg would take a lot more than 4 embers.
In no-cp the dot might hit about 1k (when you take into account resistance), so lets say you get like a 500 HoT, as you were saying 4 people you'd have a 2k HoT, in a group that's pretty much the same as only 2 people stacking mutagen. That's before considering other damage reduction (and healing boosting) sources.

Draevik

divnyi wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Stamsorc got huge buffs this patch. Huge.

Curse. Endless fury.

^ This. And stamsorc was never in a bad place to begin with. Literally every meta every patch I've seen such a strong stamsorcs in BGs that it leaves you wonder why you didn't master the class yet.

OP, if you want to stack crystal and imbued for burst, why not using Snipe instead? It basically does the same, 0.8s of charge time and in 0.2s you have next GCD, also more damage. Check this out:

https://youtu.be/aT-_CNI_kvg

Do notice that this vid is from the previous patch. Fury deals even more damage now with bigger crit.

I have only seen 2 really strong stamsorca this patch. I have played quite a lot of BGs. Maybe all the monsters reside in Cyro