Can we do something about the meta please? Magdk and Magplar.

olsborg

Atleast on ravenwatch, wich is where i pvp 99% of the time. Half the players you see are eiher magdk or magplar, for good reason too, both classes are hugely OP if you compare them to other classes. Theres plenty of ways to either buff other classes to be on par or nerf the aforementioned classes. Corrosive, molten whip and the general sustain of magdks with the use of charged trait is just broken imo. Templar bubble and healing in general is way too high.

BazOfWar

Agreed about DKs, if I go to save a resource being taken and I notice it's a DK I don't even bother engaging because it only ends one way.

Templars I find are not as big of a problem but are still overtuned.

Also as you say the world and his wife now are either DKs or Templars.

mariuszeb17_ESO5

Yeah, it's really bad time for classic stamina NB if you don't like play Proc VS Proc Campaign.

xylena_lazarow

Was it better when everyone was a Warden? Or a few years before that where everyone was a stamblade or magsorc? Healing is overtuned in general, and I don't feel like CP Cyro is being competitively dominated by mdk. Those guys in zergs spamming chain pull don't count. Stamblade just needs the dumb ult cast times removed.

Vaoh

Yeah don’t worry they did do something..... they buffed both of them next patch lmao. Balance is this game will never be too great but luckily player skill does usually win out.

Vaoh

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Was it better when everyone was a Warden? Or a few years before that where everyone was a stamblade or magsorc? Healing is overtuned in general, and I don't feel like CP Cyro is being competitively dominated by mdk. Those guys in zergs spamming chain pull don't count. Stamblade just needs the dumb ult cast times removed.

Absolutely yes, gameplay before Morrowind was WAY better. Proven by the campaign population and generalized outlook players had regarding PvP. The game had significantly less lag and classes did not feel homogenized.

Mag Sorcs and Stam/Magblades dominated, good Stamplars were strong, Templars were alright but the strongest healer, DKs were meh, Warden/Necro didn’t exist. Not saying this was the best meta but the gameplay was objectively far better.

xylena_lazarow

Vaoh wrote: »

Not saying this was the best meta but the gameplay was objectively far better.

"Objectively" is a hard sell, but I do agree it was better when the top specs were the ones that seemed to be designed primarily with 1v1 damage in mind, or when heal-tanks actually struggled to out-heal bleeds.

I'll take the current meta over the "Warden tanks in 3 damage sets" meta. The prevalence of dk/temp is also because those classes are the easiest to both play and build. Necro matches them in theory, but you see relatively few of them by comparison, thanks to the high maintenance playstyle, crowded bars, and unreliable abilities.

Veinblood1965

Wait a month it will change.

Mesite

Dusting off my magplar for the next month...

Vaoh

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Not saying this was the best meta but the gameplay was objectively far better.

"Objectively" is a hard sell, but I do agree it was better when the top specs were the ones that seemed to be designed primarily with 1v1 damage in mind, or when heal-tanks actually struggled to out-heal bleeds.

I'll take the current meta over the "Warden tanks in 3 damage sets" meta. The prevalence of dk/temp is also because those classes are the easiest to both play and build. Necro matches them in theory, but you see relatively few of them by comparison, thanks to the high maintenance playstyle, crowded bars, and unreliable abilities.

Objectively is fair though.

If spreadsheet-based combat balance homogenization, reliance on proc sets instead of abilities, and heavily deteriorated game performance are not enough.... just look at player counts. Those don’t lie.

At least on my server, compared to pre-Morrowind, there are around half as many players based on campaign populations. Keep in mind that PvP rewards used to SUCK too. People mostly played because it was a lot of fun.
Nowadays you have huge rewards including Tier 1 Transmute crystals which brings in a large chunk of the current PvP player count, Spell/Weapon pots to sell, gold gear, etc.

The kind of campaign population count we see during Midyear mayhem is what used to be considered normal

McTaterskins

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

The prevalence of dk/temp is also because those classes are the easiest to both play and build. Necro matches them in theory, but you see relatively few of them by comparison, thanks to the high maintenance playstyle, crowded bars, and unreliable abilities.

This.

This. Right. Here.

TechMaybeHic

I've hardly noticed classes outside of a NB cloaking or sorc streaking or something like that here and there. Mostly I'm just fighting to avoid DC Procs covering the ground a 3rd of the time, breaking free another 3rd, then mashing my heals hoping they go off the other 3rd, until someone dies/purges with plague break nearby and I get caught in a chain reaction. That's CP with procs enabled though obviously.

McTaterskins

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Mostly I'm just fighting to avoid DC Procs covering the ground a 3rd of the time, breaking free another 3rd, then mashing my heals hoping they go off the other 3rd, until someone dies/purges with plague break nearby and I get caught in a chain reaction.

Also this. Consider also, the addition of the gradual increase in popularity of Rush of Agony and the ping pong teams.

xDeusEJRx

Vaoh wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Was it better when everyone was a Warden? Or a few years before that where everyone was a stamblade or magsorc? Healing is overtuned in general, and I don't feel like CP Cyro is being competitively dominated by mdk. Those guys in zergs spamming chain pull don't count. Stamblade just needs the dumb ult cast times removed.

Absolutely yes, gameplay before Morrowind was WAY better. Proven by the campaign population and generalized outlook players had regarding PvP. The game had significantly less lag and classes did not feel homogenized.

Mag Sorcs and Stam/Magblades dominated, good Stamplars were strong, Templars were alright but the strongest healer, DKs were meh, Warden/Necro didn’t exist. Not saying this was the best meta but the gameplay was objectively far better.

I disagree gameplay was better, the only thing that sets them apart is that there wasn't super procs back then. That's the main thing wrong with the game now, but gameplay back then was probably even worse because balance was abysmal back in those days.
Super shields on mag sorcs that prevent healthbars being touched. Blazing shield max health templars hitting people with 8k+ shield procs and wiping people just from being a literal tank. DK wings that reflected everything and could kill unsuspecting players or players who don't know how wings work by throwing all their damage back at them, even reflecting meteor back at people. Old school vamp that gave free sustain, damage mitigation, etc and the crazy powerful vampire ultimate that dealt huge damage and healed you simultaneously. Vigors AOE stacking and healing for longer than they did now
You get the point, the class and ability balance was completely destroyed, people just seem to ignore that because it was fun back then.
Balance now is probably 100x better than back then, the only thing thats holding eso back right now is the super-procs everyone crutches on to do anything. That's the sole reason the game feels so bad to play, whenever I hop into the no proc campaign it's way more enjoyable other than when people are running pariah tank builds.

In my opinion, it's the over-reliance on procs ZOS has fostered that's made PVP really poor, and not the balancing aspect at this point. It's not completely balanced right now but skills are way more in-line than how they used to be back pre-morrowind days with a few outlier skills

TechMaybeHic

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Was it better when everyone was a Warden? Or a few years before that where everyone was a stamblade or magsorc? Healing is overtuned in general, and I don't feel like CP Cyro is being competitively dominated by mdk. Those guys in zergs spamming chain pull don't count. Stamblade just needs the dumb ult cast times removed.

Absolutely yes, gameplay before Morrowind was WAY better. Proven by the campaign population and generalized outlook players had regarding PvP. The game had significantly less lag and classes did not feel homogenized.

Mag Sorcs and Stam/Magblades dominated, good Stamplars were strong, Templars were alright but the strongest healer, DKs were meh, Warden/Necro didn’t exist. Not saying this was the best meta but the gameplay was objectively far better.

I disagree gameplay was better, the only thing that sets them apart is that there wasn't super procs back then. That's the main thing wrong with the game now, but gameplay back then was probably even worse because balance was abysmal back in those days.
Super shields on mag sorcs that prevent healthbars being touched. Blazing shield max health templars hitting people with 8k+ shield procs and wiping people just from being a literal tank. DK wings that reflected everything and could kill unsuspecting players or players who don't know how wings work by throwing all their damage back at them, even reflecting meteor back at people. Old school vamp that gave free sustain, damage mitigation, etc and the crazy powerful vampire ultimate that dealt huge damage and healed you simultaneously. Vigors AOE stacking and healing for longer than they did now
You get the point, the class and ability balance was completely destroyed, people just seem to ignore that because it was fun back then.
Balance now is probably 100x better than back then, the only thing thats holding eso back right now is the super-procs everyone crutches on to do anything. That's the sole reason the game feels so bad to play, whenever I hop into the no proc campaign it's way more enjoyable other than when people are running pariah tank builds.

In my opinion, it's the over-reliance on procs ZOS has fostered that's made PVP really poor, and not the balancing aspect at this point. It's not completely balanced right now but skills are way more in-line than how they used to be back pre-morrowind days with a few outlier skills

I kind of suspect ZOS Intended the cheese. Mass zergs of low skill players do better with a carry, and they were talking about lowering the actions per second at one time to help that player base. Then that player base thinks they are doing gods work by being able to kill ball groups but what they think are ball groups is starting to be any collection of players that have healers and follow crown, rather than every member providing a carefully set role who are not nearly as bothered by it as they think.

If it were economics; they effectively have killed the middle class.

Vaoh

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Was it better when everyone was a Warden? Or a few years before that where everyone was a stamblade or magsorc? Healing is overtuned in general, and I don't feel like CP Cyro is being competitively dominated by mdk. Those guys in zergs spamming chain pull don't count. Stamblade just needs the dumb ult cast times removed.

Absolutely yes, gameplay before Morrowind was WAY better. Proven by the campaign population and generalized outlook players had regarding PvP. The game had significantly less lag and classes did not feel homogenized.

Mag Sorcs and Stam/Magblades dominated, good Stamplars were strong, Templars were alright but the strongest healer, DKs were meh, Warden/Necro didn’t exist. Not saying this was the best meta but the gameplay was objectively far better.

I disagree gameplay was better, the only thing that sets them apart is that there wasn't super procs back then. That's the main thing wrong with the game now, but gameplay back then was probably even worse because balance was abysmal back in those days.
Super shields on mag sorcs that prevent healthbars being touched. Blazing shield max health templars hitting people with 8k+ shield procs and wiping people just from being a literal tank. DK wings that reflected everything and could kill unsuspecting players or players who don't know how wings work by throwing all their damage back at them, even reflecting meteor back at people. Old school vamp that gave free sustain, damage mitigation, etc and the crazy powerful vampire ultimate that dealt huge damage and healed you simultaneously. Vigors AOE stacking and healing for longer than they did now
You get the point, the class and ability balance was completely destroyed, people just seem to ignore that because it was fun back then.
Balance now is probably 100x better than back then, the only thing thats holding eso back right now is the super-procs everyone crutches on to do anything. That's the sole reason the game feels so bad to play, whenever I hop into the no proc campaign it's way more enjoyable other than when people are running pariah tank builds.

In my opinion, it's the over-reliance on procs ZOS has fostered that's made PVP really poor, and not the balancing aspect at this point. It's not completely balanced right now but skills are way more in-line than how they used to be back pre-morrowind days with a few outlier skills

“people just seem to ignore that because it was fun back then. “
Yes it used to be fun lol. Fun is a good thing in a video game.

That’s the thing about “balance”. You either get it by making anyone strong/unique, or you get it by making everyone the same. In the past we were unique although some classes needed buffs which used to be a simple task. Currently though everything is viable but extremely homogenized and there’s no going back.

Difference of opinion though 🤷‍♂️ I’m glad for you if you have more fun now than you did back then.

xDeusEJRx

Vaoh wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Was it better when everyone was a Warden? Or a few years before that where everyone was a stamblade or magsorc? Healing is overtuned in general, and I don't feel like CP Cyro is being competitively dominated by mdk. Those guys in zergs spamming chain pull don't count. Stamblade just needs the dumb ult cast times removed.

Absolutely yes, gameplay before Morrowind was WAY better. Proven by the campaign population and generalized outlook players had regarding PvP. The game had significantly less lag and classes did not feel homogenized.

Mag Sorcs and Stam/Magblades dominated, good Stamplars were strong, Templars were alright but the strongest healer, DKs were meh, Warden/Necro didn’t exist. Not saying this was the best meta but the gameplay was objectively far better.

I disagree gameplay was better, the only thing that sets them apart is that there wasn't super procs back then. That's the main thing wrong with the game now, but gameplay back then was probably even worse because balance was abysmal back in those days.
Super shields on mag sorcs that prevent healthbars being touched. Blazing shield max health templars hitting people with 8k+ shield procs and wiping people just from being a literal tank. DK wings that reflected everything and could kill unsuspecting players or players who don't know how wings work by throwing all their damage back at them, even reflecting meteor back at people. Old school vamp that gave free sustain, damage mitigation, etc and the crazy powerful vampire ultimate that dealt huge damage and healed you simultaneously. Vigors AOE stacking and healing for longer than they did now
You get the point, the class and ability balance was completely destroyed, people just seem to ignore that because it was fun back then.
Balance now is probably 100x better than back then, the only thing thats holding eso back right now is the super-procs everyone crutches on to do anything. That's the sole reason the game feels so bad to play, whenever I hop into the no proc campaign it's way more enjoyable other than when people are running pariah tank builds.

In my opinion, it's the over-reliance on procs ZOS has fostered that's made PVP really poor, and not the balancing aspect at this point. It's not completely balanced right now but skills are way more in-line than how they used to be back pre-morrowind days with a few outlier skills

“people just seem to ignore that because it was fun back then. “
Yes it used to be fun lol. Fun is a good thing in a video game.

That’s the thing about “balance”. You either get it by making anyone strong/unique, or you get it by making everyone the same. In the past we were unique although some classes needed buffs which used to be a simple task. Currently though everything is viable but extremely homogenized and there’s no going back.

Difference of opinion though 🤷‍♂️ I’m glad for you if you have more fun now than you did back then.

Anyone can have fun either way, I'm pretty sure the dark convergene necros are having fun considering that's all they do all day. Anyone can have fun cheesing people down. As I'm sure people had fun running max health TankPlars killing people back in 2016-2017 too. It can be fun to play with broken mechanics, who could've known?

At least with the super-procs we have now, they do nothing if the person using them doesn't know how to properly use them. I get dark convergence pulled by zergs all the time just for them to light attack me afterwards. Tons of people can't utilize the procs well, so they aren't worth anything if the player can't follow up on it.


I've had fun in pre-morrowind and I can have fun now because I've always played the same way in every meta(without cheese), but the game was just arguably worse cause nothing was balanced at all and you could get kills or become unkillable just because the game was terribly balanced and let you do so. At least now the super-procs don't do anything if the player using them can't follow up on them. They make the game PAINFULLY easy for people who play the game well, but for those who don't know what they're doing, they're wasted 5th pieces