Major Brutality on Jabs

Stx

This is a bad change.

Now that puncturing sweeps scales with anything, no one will use jabs when puncturing sweeps gets such a massive self heal.

I thought for sure major sorcery/brutality would have been added to repentance/ aura

etchedpixels

It scales with one resource but uses the other, so I don't think it's quite that simple.

Darian_Rath

We'll have to wait and see, but I dont think stam based characters will be running magicka based spammable due to the inabilty to sustain. Something I feel a lot of people are overlooking. It's not just as easy as "pick whichever skill is more powerful and ignore the cost/damage types".

Also, as a stamplar main, them adding major brutality isn't even that crazy. Due to the total lack of a real kit, I have excessive flex spots on my build and already slot Hiricine's bounty for constant major brutality. IMO, them adding it on to jabs just boils down to a QoL improvement and opens up a slot so I can get a few % more dam from another fighters guild ability or slot some utility.

MashmalloMan

People acting like it's just slot and go to down, good luck sustaining 2700 magicka a second.

sneakymitchell

MashmalloMan wrote: »

People acting like it's just slot and go to down, good luck sustaining 2700 magicka a second.

And if they do substain good luck getting enough damage

Vaoh

Imo this was a very nice change. Savagery was useless because we all slotted Camo Hunter anyway. This change means Stamplar no longer needs to use weapon pots to get Brutality.

Now maybe a more unique effect would be better but this at least an improvement.

ealdwin

Stx wrote: »

This is a bad change.

Now that puncturing sweeps scales with anything, no one will use jabs when puncturing sweeps gets such a massive self heal.

I thought for sure major sorcery/brutality would have been added to repentance/ aura

Restoring Aura and morphs honestly makes a lot more sense. The Minor Magickasteal could reasonable be replaced with Brutality/Sorcery without any drastically negative effects. (Magplar's don't use Restoring Aura for that buff, since Elemental Drain and the Overcharged status effect exist). Magickasteal could be kept on the Radiant Aura morph and Repentence could likewise keep its morph effects.

Tannus15

etchedpixels wrote: »

It scales with one resource but uses the other, so I don't think it's quite that simple.

you need to use max stam, mag regen food to sustain sweep on stamplar

Drdeath20

Just stop your not fooling anyone by trying to get magplars class access to major sorcery.

Stamplars already can slot other skills to get major brutality, now we just bypassed a second used skill slot. Put it on a skill that gives minor magicka steal…..

Stamplars only gained here and they will be silly OP being able to use heroic potions for faster ultimate generation instead of WPD.

ealdwin

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Just stop your not fooling anyone by trying to get magplars class access to major sorcery....

And?

ZOS doesn't like multiple sources of buffs within class skills, just ask Nightblades about their speed buffs. If Templars are getting Major Sorcery/Brutality added to their kit, I would much prefer it exist on a skill that would (1) be flexible enough to be used by different builds—not just Stamplar or Magplar—and (2) allow the buff to be provided for a long enough duration so as to require less skill-casting for buff uptime. Molten Weapons, Surge, and Betty Netch are all good examples of that. Moving Sorcery/Brutality to Siphoning Strikes would achieve that for Nightblades. Doing something like replacing Minor Magickasteal with Major Sorcery/Brutality on Restoring Aura would achieve the same for Templars. I believe such a change would be better for the whole of the class, not just a few specific builds, and will continue to propose that change for so long as I think so.

phaneub17_ESO

I would prefer it move to one of the abilities affected by Enduring Rays for a slight increase in buff duration and benefits from Illuminate so casting grants Major Brutality, Major Sorcery, and Minor Sorcery at the same time. My proposed change:

Solar Flare and its morphs grant Major Brutality and Major Sorcery, remove Empower.
Puncturing Strikes and its morphs grant Empower after they finish casting.
Biting Jabs new effect either grants Minor Toughness or applies Minor Maim to targets hit.

Firstmep

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

I would prefer it move to one of the abilities affected by Enduring Rays for a slight increase in buff duration and benefits from Illuminate so casting grants Major Brutality, Major Sorcery, and Minor Sorcery at the same time. My proposed change:

Solar Flare and its morphs grant Major Brutality and Major Sorcery, remove Empower.
Puncturing Strikes and its morphs grant Empower after they finish casting.
Biting Jabs new effect either grants Minor Toughness or applies Minor Maim to targets hit.

I like this, I defo think jabs applying a debuff would be more in line with it Biting.
Empower might be a bit too much tho, the skills are already pretty strong.

TechMaybeHic

I really cannot see not running rally on Stamplar in PvP anyway. It just feels redundant to have on jabs when I was getting at least something out of savagery.

pecheckler

If I’m understanding the change correctly, the damage or crit buff( can’t remember) that rally provides is now built into jabs? Rally is a key require stamplar pvp skill… so who thought it would be a good idea to make the buff redundant?

Seems like an obvious oversight.

fiender66

LOL, I tried many times to run a stam plar with the mag sweeps. Changing race, CP, etc etc

No way. Sustain is almost unbearable.

Brrrofski

Vaoh wrote: »

Imo this was a very nice change. Savagery was useless because we all slotted Camo Hunter anyway. This change means Stamplar no longer needs to use weapon pots to get Brutality.

Now maybe a more unique effect would be better but this at least an improvement.

Did we?

I don't in PvP. Because I had it off jabs. Which meant I could slot bubble for more survival.

Now I need to use pots for it instead of tripots, so I can't sustain bubble so will just fall over dead because stamplar survival is trash without it.

Sandman929

It makes way more sense as part of an Aura rework, but I'll take it

James-Wayne

This is a great change.

I can slot Pale, get my Damage boost, my crit boost and remove that werewolf skill for the passive boost for another fighters guild skill.

Perfect!

Vaoh

Brrrofski wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Imo this was a very nice change. Savagery was useless because we all slotted Camo Hunter anyway. This change means Stamplar no longer needs to use weapon pots to get Brutality.

Now maybe a more unique effect would be better but this at least an improvement.

Did we?

I don't in PvP. Because I had it off jabs. Which meant I could slot bubble for more survival.

Now I need to use pots for it instead of tripots, so I can't sustain bubble so will just fall over dead because stamplar survival is trash without it.

This change was better for the majority of players yes. I don’t think you will fall over dead in PvP because you aren’t getting crit% buff from your Jabs.

If anything you might have bigger heals now thanks to hybridization changes

gariondavey

Vaoh wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Imo this was a very nice change. Savagery was useless because we all slotted Camo Hunter anyway. This change means Stamplar no longer needs to use weapon pots to get Brutality.

Now maybe a more unique effect would be better but this at least an improvement.

Did we?

I don't in PvP. Because I had it off jabs. Which meant I could slot bubble for more survival.

Now I need to use pots for it instead of tripots, so I can't sustain bubble so will just fall over dead because stamplar survival is trash without it.

This change was better for the majority of players yes. I don’t think you will fall over dead in PvP because you aren’t getting crit% buff from your Jabs.

If anything you might have bigger heals now thanks to hybridization changes

Losing 10 percent crit is pretty huge. Especially when medium + templar passives buff crit damage.

Stx

MashmalloMan wrote: »

People acting like it's just slot and go to down, good luck sustaining 2700 magicka a second.

I won't need luck it's called magicka regen. Everyone is a hybrid now.

Vaoh

gariondavey wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Imo this was a very nice change. Savagery was useless because we all slotted Camo Hunter anyway. This change means Stamplar no longer needs to use weapon pots to get Brutality.

Now maybe a more unique effect would be better but this at least an improvement.

Did we?

I don't in PvP. Because I had it off jabs. Which meant I could slot bubble for more survival.

Now I need to use pots for it instead of tripots, so I can't sustain bubble so will just fall over dead because stamplar survival is trash without it.

This change was better for the majority of players yes. I don’t think you will fall over dead in PvP because you aren’t getting crit% buff from your Jabs.

If anything you might have bigger heals now thanks to hybridization changes

Losing 10 percent crit is pretty huge. Especially when medium + templar passives buff crit damage.

Camo Hunter or Weapon Pots are solid options, or possibly even Sun Fire which now scales to weapon damage/gives both crit buffs for 20sec.

And in terms of pots there may be a good combination out there with Major Savagery that would be even better than a typical Weapon pot since you won’t need Brutality from it.

There are options and builds will be changing quite a bit - it is a good change because it benefits way more players, especially in PvE where it’s good for every dps who’s not spamming weapon pots on cooldown in all content. And in PvP it’s not uncommon to slot Camo Hunter anyway since it has so many benefits for damage.

gariondavey

Vaoh wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Imo this was a very nice change. Savagery was useless because we all slotted Camo Hunter anyway. This change means Stamplar no longer needs to use weapon pots to get Brutality.

Now maybe a more unique effect would be better but this at least an improvement.

Did we?

I don't in PvP. Because I had it off jabs. Which meant I could slot bubble for more survival.

Now I need to use pots for it instead of tripots, so I can't sustain bubble so will just fall over dead because stamplar survival is trash without it.

This change was better for the majority of players yes. I don’t think you will fall over dead in PvP because you aren’t getting crit% buff from your Jabs.

If anything you might have bigger heals now thanks to hybridization changes

Losing 10 percent crit is pretty huge. Especially when medium + templar passives buff crit damage.

Camo Hunter or Weapon Pots are solid options, or possibly even Sun Fire which now scales to weapon damage/gives both crit buffs for 20sec.

And in terms of pots there may be a good combination out there with Major Savagery that would be even better than a typical Weapon pot since you won’t need Brutality from it.

There are options and builds will be changing quite a bit - it is a good change because it benefits way more players, especially in PvE where it’s good for every dps who’s not spamming weapon pots on cooldown in all content. And in PvP it’s not uncommon to slot Camo Hunter anyway since it has so many benefits for damage.

Tripots are very important on stamplar in PvP.
I don't have bar space for camo hunter.
I don't like the change.

From the other thread:

"Currently - jabs + rally
I get - a semi on demand burst heal, major brutality, major savagery on offense, minor endurance
In 2 skills

Pts - jabs + rally
I get - a semi on demand burst heal, majority brutality, minor endurance
In 2 skills

Pts - jabs + camo hunter
I get - major brutality, 3 percent wd on offense bar, a bit of uptime on minor berserk, major savagery that does not carry over to defense bar if it was up
In 2 skills

This is not a win. Losing crit (option 2) or losing defensive and sustain (option 3) are not good, especially on a class that has survival issues even while using bubble + vigor + er + rally + run.

Losing bar space because of this frustrates me because I'm already short on it.

Getting honor the dead is nice, but again, bar space.

With the exception of power of the light being better than purifying light, stamplar is just inferior to magplar.

With the hybridization, there is very little reason to use jabs in PvP over sweeps."

Vaoh

gariondavey wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Imo this was a very nice change. Savagery was useless because we all slotted Camo Hunter anyway. This change means Stamplar no longer needs to use weapon pots to get Brutality.

Now maybe a more unique effect would be better but this at least an improvement.

Did we?

I don't in PvP. Because I had it off jabs. Which meant I could slot bubble for more survival.

Now I need to use pots for it instead of tripots, so I can't sustain bubble so will just fall over dead because stamplar survival is trash without it.

This change was better for the majority of players yes. I don’t think you will fall over dead in PvP because you aren’t getting crit% buff from your Jabs.

If anything you might have bigger heals now thanks to hybridization changes

Losing 10 percent crit is pretty huge. Especially when medium + templar passives buff crit damage.

Camo Hunter or Weapon Pots are solid options, or possibly even Sun Fire which now scales to weapon damage/gives both crit buffs for 20sec.

And in terms of pots there may be a good combination out there with Major Savagery that would be even better than a typical Weapon pot since you won’t need Brutality from it.

There are options and builds will be changing quite a bit - it is a good change because it benefits way more players, especially in PvE where it’s good for every dps who’s not spamming weapon pots on cooldown in all content. And in PvP it’s not uncommon to slot Camo Hunter anyway since it has so many benefits for damage.

Tripots are very important on stamplar in PvP.
I don't have bar space for camo hunter.
I don't like the change.

From the other thread:

"Currently - jabs + rally
I get - a semi on demand burst heal, major brutality, major savagery on offense, minor endurance
In 2 skills

Pts - jabs + rally
I get - a semi on demand burst heal, majority brutality, minor endurance
In 2 skills

Pts - jabs + camo hunter
I get - major brutality, 3 percent wd on offense bar, a bit of uptime on minor berserk, major savagery that does not carry over to defense bar if it was up
In 2 skills

This is not a win. Losing crit (option 2) or losing defensive and sustain (option 3) are not good, especially on a class that has survival issues even while using bubble + vigor + er + rally + run.

Losing bar space because of this frustrates me because I'm already short on it.

Getting honor the dead is nice, but again, bar space.

With the exception of power of the light being better than purifying light, stamplar is just inferior to magplar.

With the hybridization, there is very little reason to use jabs in PvP over sweeps."

Well a Templar ability already gives those buffs. They had good reasoning for the change. Sure it might be inconvenient for a particular Stamina Templar build.

These hybridization changes are a game changer, I think it’s worth taking more than 1 day to figure out the scale of the changes first and new ways to build. Stamina/Magicka will be much more mixed.

gariondavey

Vaoh wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Imo this was a very nice change. Savagery was useless because we all slotted Camo Hunter anyway. This change means Stamplar no longer needs to use weapon pots to get Brutality.

Now maybe a more unique effect would be better but this at least an improvement.

Did we?

I don't in PvP. Because I had it off jabs. Which meant I could slot bubble for more survival.

Now I need to use pots for it instead of tripots, so I can't sustain bubble so will just fall over dead because stamplar survival is trash without it.

This change was better for the majority of players yes. I don’t think you will fall over dead in PvP because you aren’t getting crit% buff from your Jabs.

If anything you might have bigger heals now thanks to hybridization changes

Losing 10 percent crit is pretty huge. Especially when medium + templar passives buff crit damage.

Camo Hunter or Weapon Pots are solid options, or possibly even Sun Fire which now scales to weapon damage/gives both crit buffs for 20sec.

And in terms of pots there may be a good combination out there with Major Savagery that would be even better than a typical Weapon pot since you won’t need Brutality from it.

There are options and builds will be changing quite a bit - it is a good change because it benefits way more players, especially in PvE where it’s good for every dps who’s not spamming weapon pots on cooldown in all content. And in PvP it’s not uncommon to slot Camo Hunter anyway since it has so many benefits for damage.

Tripots are very important on stamplar in PvP.
I don't have bar space for camo hunter.
I don't like the change.

From the other thread:

"Currently - jabs + rally
I get - a semi on demand burst heal, major brutality, major savagery on offense, minor endurance
In 2 skills

Pts - jabs + rally
I get - a semi on demand burst heal, majority brutality, minor endurance
In 2 skills

Pts - jabs + camo hunter
I get - major brutality, 3 percent wd on offense bar, a bit of uptime on minor berserk, major savagery that does not carry over to defense bar if it was up
In 2 skills

This is not a win. Losing crit (option 2) or losing defensive and sustain (option 3) are not good, especially on a class that has survival issues even while using bubble + vigor + er + rally + run.

Losing bar space because of this frustrates me because I'm already short on it.

Getting honor the dead is nice, but again, bar space.

With the exception of power of the light being better than purifying light, stamplar is just inferior to magplar.

With the hybridization, there is very little reason to use jabs in PvP over sweeps."

Well a Templar ability already gives those buffs. They had good reasoning for the change. Sure it might be inconvenient for a particular Stamina Templar build.

These hybridization changes are a game changer, I think it’s worth taking more than 1 day to figure out the scale of the changes first and new ways to build. Stamina/Magicka will be much more mixed.

In general I'm ok with the changes.
This change to jabs is not well thought out from a pvp perspective. I feel like I've explained why at length.

Drdeath20

These threads kill me.

One poster says they don’t have bar space and then another is advocating for major brutality/ sorcery to be on a lesser used skill (radiant aura).

Firstmep

Drdeath20 wrote: »

These threads kill me.

One poster says they don’t have bar space and then another is advocating for major brutality/ sorcery to be on a lesser used skill (radiant aura).

They want an important buff to be on a buff skill.
Revolutionary I know.
If we could swap rally for an in class actual buff skill for brutality we wouldn't have to run 2h on every pvp build anymore. Simple as that.
Warden and sorc are perfect example of that, they have good sources for the buff and so they can run any weapon combo at will, which really opens up choices.
Jabs just doesnt fit the role for pvp, even if it might be okay for pve

KingExecration

Pvp perspective, I don’t think it even matters in pve except saving pots more

Radiant aura would be perfect for this change instead of making stamplar worse by taking crit away. Running camo gimps you since you miss out on crit both bars after hitting jabs. That and it gave you minor protection making it a solid buff in between offense rotations.
As a stamplar you’ll still need rally and now drop a great utility spot for having more room for camo hunter for your crit. Needs a revert imo.
Add sorcery and brutality to stuff that’s horrible or weak, radiant aura is worthless since the status effect and ele drain exists. Unless of course it suddenly gave some magical rare buff that only that skill provided in minor stamina steal.

gariondavey

KingExecration wrote: »

Pvp perspective, I don’t think it even matters in pve except saving pots more

Radiant aura would be perfect for this change instead of making stamplar worse by taking crit away. Running camo gimps you since you miss out on crit both bars after hitting jabs. That and it gave you minor protection making it a solid buff in between offense rotations.
As a stamplar you’ll still need rally and now drop a great utility spot for having more room for camo hunter for your crit. Needs a revert imo.
Add sorcery and brutality to stuff that’s horrible or weak, radiant aura is worthless since the status effect and ele drain exists. Unless of course it suddenly gave some magical rare buff that only that skill provided in minor stamina steal.

Excellent post

Amottica

MashmalloMan wrote: »

People acting like it's just slot and go to down, good luck sustaining 2700 magicka a second.

It would not need to be sustained to keep the buff up. I do not recall any buff that is active only during the specific duration the skill is being used.

gariondavey

Amottica wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

People acting like it's just slot and go to down, good luck sustaining 2700 magicka a second.

It would not need to be sustained to keep the buff up. I do not recall any buff that is active only during the specific duration the skill is being used.

Who uses their spammable only 1x per 10 seconds? Lol