Hybrid Healing

WoppaBoem

Seeing all the changes and being returning player they keep changing so I don't closely following it anymore but, I do see hybrid approach on many area's.

However are also magic heals getting hybrid so based on highest stats? Will I be frontbar DW finally on my PVP stamplar and heal with breath of life and rally is not a 100% must have in the future? (given the fact jabs will give major brutality next patch).

So are hybrid heals a thing?

ealdwin

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Seeing all the changes and being returning player they keep changing so I don't closely following it anymore but, I do see hybrid approach on many area's.

However are also magic heals getting hybrid so based on highest stats? Will I be frontbar DW finally on my PVP stamplar and heal with breath of life and rally is not a 100% must have in the future? (given the fact jabs will give major brutality next patch).

So are hybrid heals a thing?

Alternate scaling, yes. BOL will give better healing to Stamplars as it will scale from Stamina + Weapon Damage.

Alternate cost, no. BOL will still cost Magicka. But this could be a good thing as it's less draining on primary resource?

BXR_Lonestar

ealdwin wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Seeing all the changes and being returning player they keep changing so I don't closely following it anymore but, I do see hybrid approach on many area's.

However are also magic heals getting hybrid so based on highest stats? Will I be frontbar DW finally on my PVP stamplar and heal with breath of life and rally is not a 100% must have in the future? (given the fact jabs will give major brutality next patch).

So are hybrid heals a thing?

Alternate scaling, yes. BOL will give better healing to Stamplars as it will scale from Stamina + Weapon Damage.

Alternate cost, no. BOL will still cost Magicka. But this could be a good thing as it's less draining on primary resource?

Seriously? How does that make sense that a stam character with 6-7k weapon power and 30k stam can have a stronger BoL heal than a dedicated healer with ~3600 spell power and 40k mag?

Einstein_

not only that you can stack vigor + RR + classheals now, which makes you unkillable if you dont have two left hands

mocap

heh... Back in... 2016 maybe? dual wield mag toons was pretty standart thing. History is cyclical )

ealdwin

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

ealdwin wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Seeing all the changes and being returning player they keep changing so I don't closely following it anymore but, I do see hybrid approach on many area's.

However are also magic heals getting hybrid so based on highest stats? Will I be frontbar DW finally on my PVP stamplar and heal with breath of life and rally is not a 100% must have in the future? (given the fact jabs will give major brutality next patch).

So are hybrid heals a thing?

Alternate scaling, yes. BOL will give better healing to Stamplars as it will scale from Stamina + Weapon Damage.

Alternate cost, no. BOL will still cost Magicka. But this could be a good thing as it's less draining on primary resource?

Seriously? How does that make sense that a stam character with 6-7k weapon power and 30k stam can have a stronger BoL heal than a dedicated healer with ~3600 spell power and 40k mag?

Because Healing and Damage have the same coefficients and forumalas. Theoretically, as long as Damage is 10.5 times stronger than Resource in both equations, any spec that has the easier time stacking Damage is going to have stronger healing potential. If a Magicka copy of Vigor was in game it would still be weaker than the original Vigor. It's less of a Mage/Warrior problem and more of a "we use the same forumla/ratio for power in every aspect of the game" kind of issue.

The solution doesn't even have to be a hard split, just adjust the coefficient ratios for heals so that Resource has more weight than Damage.

For instance:
Resource : 10.5 Damage >>> 2.1 Resource : 5 Damage

$1A = 0.155047 Resource + 1.62712 Damage - 2.63527 >>> $1B = 0.3255987 Resource + 0.77481904761 Damage - 2.63527

Build 1: 6000 WD, 30000 Stam

$1A = 0.155047 (30000) + 1.62712 (6000) - 2.63527 = 14411.49473
$1B = 0.3255987 (30000) + 0.77481904761 (6000) - 2.63527 = 14414.2400157

Build 2: 3600 SD, 40000 Mag

$1A = 0.155047 (40000) + 1.62712 (3600) - 2.63527 = 12056.87673
$1B = 0.3255987 (40000) + 0.77481904761 (3600) - 2.63527 = 15810.6613014

At that point though a 20% nerf overall might be called for, since Build 2's healing output increases by 25%. Actually...

Build 1:
$1B = 0.26047896 (30000) + 0.61985523808 (6000) - 2.108216 = 11531.3920125

Build 2:
$1B = 0.26047896 (40000) + 0.61985523808 (3600) - 2.108216 = 12648.5290411

Again, numbers aren't perfect, but the idea is there.

Calculations for New Coefficients:

New_Resource_Coefficient = (Old_Resource_Coefficient) * 2.1
New_Damage_Coefficient = (Old_Damage_Coefficient / 10.5) * 5

Edit: 20% nerf, not 80%.... 80% would be horrendously bad.

Stx

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

ealdwin wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Seeing all the changes and being returning player they keep changing so I don't closely following it anymore but, I do see hybrid approach on many area's.

However are also magic heals getting hybrid so based on highest stats? Will I be frontbar DW finally on my PVP stamplar and heal with breath of life and rally is not a 100% must have in the future? (given the fact jabs will give major brutality next patch).

So are hybrid heals a thing?

Alternate scaling, yes. BOL will give better healing to Stamplars as it will scale from Stamina + Weapon Damage.

Alternate cost, no. BOL will still cost Magicka. But this could be a good thing as it's less draining on primary resource?

Seriously? How does that make sense that a stam character with 6-7k weapon power and 30k stam can have a stronger BoL heal than a dedicated healer with ~3600 spell power and 40k mag?

It doesn't make sense. But they want every ability in the game to be good for every build in the game so you don't have to put any thought into building a character.

WoppaBoem

Stx wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

ealdwin wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Seeing all the changes and being returning player they keep changing so I don't closely following it anymore but, I do see hybrid approach on many area's.

However are also magic heals getting hybrid so based on highest stats? Will I be frontbar DW finally on my PVP stamplar and heal with breath of life and rally is not a 100% must have in the future? (given the fact jabs will give major brutality next patch).

So are hybrid heals a thing?

Alternate scaling, yes. BOL will give better healing to Stamplars as it will scale from Stamina + Weapon Damage.

Alternate cost, no. BOL will still cost Magicka. But this could be a good thing as it's less draining on primary resource?

Seriously? How does that make sense that a stam character with 6-7k weapon power and 30k stam can have a stronger BoL heal than a dedicated healer with ~3600 spell power and 40k mag?

It doesn't make sense. But they want every ability in the game to be good for every build in the game so you don't have to put any thought into building a character.

disagree with that, putting much thought in a build can get much better result if there is more to choice from. The standard meta always is partially brain dead that will always be the appeal because it yield general standardize results but very creative builds can flourish from great gaming minds.

Seraphayel

Healing was always going to be the elephant in the room with this change.

While I like the scaling for damage skills, and in theory for healing skills, this will create some crazy good Stamina builds and make them unkillable because they’re heals will be so much better. You don’t need the Magicka either and with the resource pool you can still heal at least 2-3 times which is more than enough to get you back to full health.

Stx

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

ealdwin wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Seeing all the changes and being returning player they keep changing so I don't closely following it anymore but, I do see hybrid approach on many area's.

However are also magic heals getting hybrid so based on highest stats? Will I be frontbar DW finally on my PVP stamplar and heal with breath of life and rally is not a 100% must have in the future? (given the fact jabs will give major brutality next patch).

So are hybrid heals a thing?

Alternate scaling, yes. BOL will give better healing to Stamplars as it will scale from Stamina + Weapon Damage.

Alternate cost, no. BOL will still cost Magicka. But this could be a good thing as it's less draining on primary resource?

Seriously? How does that make sense that a stam character with 6-7k weapon power and 30k stam can have a stronger BoL heal than a dedicated healer with ~3600 spell power and 40k mag?

It doesn't make sense. But they want every ability in the game to be good for every build in the game so you don't have to put any thought into building a character.

disagree with that, putting much thought in a build can get much better result if there is more to choice from. The standard meta always is partially brain dead that will always be the appeal because it yield general standardize results but very creative builds can flourish from great gaming minds.

There isn't more to choose from. They haven't added any skills to the game. What they have done is make your racial/gearing/stat choices less meaningful, because every ability scales with every stat now (except % damage or % healing). Now instead of thinking of a way to build a character so you can use the skills you want, you can just slap them on your bar.

Easier? Yes. But also more brain dead

WoppaBoem

Stx wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

ealdwin wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Seeing all the changes and being returning player they keep changing so I don't closely following it anymore but, I do see hybrid approach on many area's.

However are also magic heals getting hybrid so based on highest stats? Will I be frontbar DW finally on my PVP stamplar and heal with breath of life and rally is not a 100% must have in the future? (given the fact jabs will give major brutality next patch).

So are hybrid heals a thing?

Alternate scaling, yes. BOL will give better healing to Stamplars as it will scale from Stamina + Weapon Damage.

Alternate cost, no. BOL will still cost Magicka. But this could be a good thing as it's less draining on primary resource?

Seriously? How does that make sense that a stam character with 6-7k weapon power and 30k stam can have a stronger BoL heal than a dedicated healer with ~3600 spell power and 40k mag?

It doesn't make sense. But they want every ability in the game to be good for every build in the game so you don't have to put any thought into building a character.

disagree with that, putting much thought in a build can get much better result if there is more to choice from. The standard meta always is partially brain dead that will always be the appeal because it yield general standardize results but very creative builds can flourish from great gaming minds.

There isn't more to choose from. They haven't added any skills to the game. What they have done is make your racial/gearing/stat choices less meaningful, because every ability scales with every stat now (except % damage or % healing). Now instead of thinking of a way to build a character so you can use the skills you want, you can just slap them on your bar.

Easier? Yes. But also more brain dead

Oke I agree with that part of the build indeed, managing your resource pools and recoveries is different however in this hybrid world is much easier than it was in the past when we only had shackle breaker

mmtaniac

They just make game easier for those more more casul kind of players.

StarOfElyon

Are we seriously arguing about stamplars using breath of life as if they will be able to sustain it?

I have a Breton Templar tank that leans stamina in PvP but uses magic heals (like Breath of Life and Ritual of Rebirth); if that character wasn't a Breton she would not be able to sustain those heals and it's still easy to drain my mag pool if I'm not careful. Don't worry about the tooltip when you can't even sustain it.

WoppaBoem

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Are we seriously arguing about stamplars using breath of life as if they will be able to sustain it?

I have a Breton Templar tank that leans stamina in PvP but uses magic heals (like Breath of Life and Ritual of Rebirth); if that character wasn't a Breton she would not be able to sustain those heals and it's still easy to drain my mag pool if I'm not careful. Don't worry about the tooltip when you can't even sustain it.

Lol build better hehe, but vigor, rally, BOL seems very strong and big increase in heals potential for stamplar, with tri-pots and sugar skulls food there is lots of magica to spend when under pressure also you can heal you partner(s). Talk about sustain is around spammables or very frequent use abilities. But when under pressure having vigor and BOL on your back bar and rally on your front during offense means you always have very very potent and powerful heals ready. Dont try to survice with only 1 skill make it a nice layer cake and be a champ

IronWooshu

Coming from the PTS, Stamina characters in PVP are gonna be even more stupid broken. Not only can they already block and roll dodge more than Magicka characters (best defense in PVP). The healing options are insane, I've seen Stamplar with 18k BOL healing. So imagine in PVP being able to roll dodge, block while pumping out massive healing using your off stat while having 7k to 8k spell damage because Stamplar's want to take advantage of spell damage for the minor sorcery buff since its highest offensive stat now.

Also they still run 64 stamina.

Run Bear Haunch gold food for the Magicka and Stam sustain and Magicka classes will be not needed.

They are gonna have to rework how things work because as of right now. There is no point being Magicka in PVP.

Seraphayel

IronWooshu wrote: »

Coming from the PTS, Stamina characters in PVP are gonna be even more stupid broken. Not only can they already block and roll dodge more than Magicka characters (best defense in PVP). The healing options are insane, I've seen Stamplar with 18k BOL healing. So imagine in PVP being able to roll dodge, block while pumping out massive healing using your off stat while having 7k to 8k spell damage because Stamplar's want to take advantage of spell damage for the minor sorcery buff since its highest offensive stat now.

Also they still run 64 stamina.

Run Bear Haunch gold food for the Magicka and Stam sustain and Magicka classes will be not needed.

They are gonna have to rework how things work because as of right now. There is no point being Magicka in PVP.

This is my biggest fear and it seems to become reality very soon. Healing will be even more out of control in U33.

IronWooshu

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Are we seriously arguing about stamplars using breath of life as if they will be able to sustain it?

I have a Breton Templar tank that leans stamina in PvP but uses magic heals (like Breath of Life and Ritual of Rebirth); if that character wasn't a Breton she would not be able to sustain those heals and it's still easy to drain my mag pool if I'm not careful. Don't worry about the tooltip when you can't even sustain it.

If you talking PVE and stamina running as healers your right but see my above post about PVP. The Magicka sustain is easily attainable.

Vigor, Roll Dodge, Breath of Light your healed to full and ready to go on the offensive.

exeeter702

WoppaBoem wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Are we seriously arguing about stamplars using breath of life as if they will be able to sustain it?

I have a Breton Templar tank that leans stamina in PvP but uses magic heals (like Breath of Life and Ritual of Rebirth); if that character wasn't a Breton she would not be able to sustain those heals and it's still easy to drain my mag pool if I'm not careful. Don't worry about the tooltip when you can't even sustain it.

Lol build better hehe, but vigor, rally, BOL seems very strong and big increase in heals potential for stamplar, with tri-pots and sugar skulls food there is lots of magica to spend when under pressure also you can heal you partner(s). Talk about sustain is around spammables or very frequent use abilities. But when under pressure having vigor and BOL on your back bar and rally on your front during offense means you always have very very potent and powerful heals ready. Dont try to survice with only 1 skill make it a nice layer cake and be a champ

Any stamplar built for proper offense in pvp, will practically be able to throw out 2 HTDs before having to make a conscious choice about hoe important refreshing their resistance buff or utility is.

If you are building for universal sustain by way of wretched vit, hybrid food & glyphs and jeweryly enchantments etc, you are fundamentally going to be weaker in than the stamplar that focuses on stam sustain and damage with the available stamina based healing options. You will basically be able to cast a weaker HTD a few more times.

gariondavey

I'm beyond confused at responses in this thread.
Medium armor, fighters guild all buff spell damage as well.
You can stack sd just as easily as wd.
In fact, if you play templar next patch and don't stack sd, you are missing out on minor sorcery.
Dw + resto has been amazing and pretty much bis on magplar pvp for a while.
Next patch stamplar will have virtually 0 identity and will likely run dw + resto or other such set ups.
I've even played 2h resto stamplar for premade bgs on live. Since sets are hybridized, radiating regen is still decent on stam characters currently, and that will only improve next patch.

WoppaBoem

gariondavey wrote: »

I'm beyond confused at responses in this thread.
Medium armor, fighters guild all buff spell damage as well.
You can stack sd just as easily as wd.
In fact, if you play templar next patch and don't stack sd, you are missing out on minor sorcery.
Dw + resto has been amazing and pretty much bis on magplar pvp for a while.
Next patch stamplar will have virtually 0 identity and will likely run dw + resto or other such set ups.
I've even played 2h resto stamplar for premade bgs on live. Since sets are hybridized, radiating regen is still decent on stam characters currently, and that will only improve next patch.

My stamplar has not met a magplar who can beat it and about identity its packed with identity my build is completely unique and this build will not work on any other class. So I think you are very wrong. But keep being wrong I keep doing my thing

The strength in jabs on stamplar to match that on a magplar and still being able to take on multiple enemies is practically impossible. I do meet many turtles magplar yes when under pressure they are very unique way to strong defense but offensive I am never worried against a magplar.

MEBengalsFan2001

Here is how I would handle healing in this game.

Your healing out would be impacted by your stamina/magicka resource pool. Anything below 40K resource will result in reduced healing out effect.

Your healing in would be impacted by your total health. Anything below 40K health would get a reduction to healing in.

This would make it harder for solo type character who have 30K resource, 30K health and 6K damage to survive and take down a group. It would also help groups realize that you need tanks with health and healers with magicka resource to keep the group alive.

These are the changes I would implement that I believe would bring some balance to PVP.

WoppaBoem

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Here is how I would handle healing in this game.

Your healing out would be impacted by your stamina/magicka resource pool. Anything below 40K resource will result in reduced healing out effect.

Your healing in would be impacted by your total health. Anything below 40K health would get a reduction to healing in.

This would make it harder for solo type character who have 30K resource, 30K health and 6K damage to survive and take down a group. It would also help groups realize that you need tanks with health and healers with magicka resource to keep the group alive.

These are the changes I would implement that I believe would bring some balance to PVP.

That would mean the of PVP

gariondavey

WoppaBoem wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

I'm beyond confused at responses in this thread.
Medium armor, fighters guild all buff spell damage as well.
You can stack sd just as easily as wd.
In fact, if you play templar next patch and don't stack sd, you are missing out on minor sorcery.
Dw + resto has been amazing and pretty much bis on magplar pvp for a while.
Next patch stamplar will have virtually 0 identity and will likely run dw + resto or other such set ups.
I've even played 2h resto stamplar for premade bgs on live. Since sets are hybridized, radiating regen is still decent on stam characters currently, and that will only improve next patch.

My stamplar has not met a magplar who can beat it and about identity its packed with identity my build is completely unique and this build will not work on any other class. So I think you are very wrong. But keep being wrong I keep doing my thing

The strength in jabs on stamplar to match that on a magplar and still being able to take on multiple enemies is practically impossible. I do meet many turtles magplar yes when under pressure they are very unique way to strong defense but offensive I am never worried against a magplar.

@WoppaBoem what server do you play on?