Rush of Agony Needs to be Nerfed

ketsparrowhawk

Here's a fun scenario I seem to be encountering more and more every day:

Get pulled by Rush of Agony
Dodge away
Get pulled again THEN STUNNED by Dark Convergence
At least 3 whole seconds where I cannot control my character
All while a necro colossus ult, graveyard synergy, and blastbones are hitting me.

Super fun and engaging gameplay.

the1andonlyskwex

Shouldn't CC immunity kick in after the initial pull?

Edit: Nevermind. It's dumb that Rush of Agony's pull doesn't apply CC immunity.

ketsparrowhawk

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Shouldn't CC immunity kick in after the initial pull?

Edit: Nevermind. It's dumb that Rush of Agony's pull doesn't apply CC immunity.

The cc rules are being broken twice. Rush of Agony doesn’t apply cc immunity. And dark convergence stuns AFTER it pulls you, which also breaks the cc rules. Certain BG matches you literally cannot control your character half the time.

divnyi

Dodge away

This is where you did the wrong thing. You need to hold block, convergence will whiff and then you can move.

Honestly dodge can see some love. It's enough that it gets damaged by AoEs, which is almost all hard-hitters. It doesn't need to be pull-able, especially by DC.

ketsparrowhawk

divnyi wrote: »

Dodge away

This is where you did the wrong thing. You need to hold block, convergence will whiff and then you can move.

Honestly dodge can see some love. It's enough that it gets damaged by AoEs, which is almost all hard-hitters. It doesn't need to be pull-able, especially by DC.

Still gonna be taking an immense amount of damage even through block. Blastbones, colossus ult, graveyard synergy, plus the damage from DC and Rush. Most of my chars are too squishy to just stand there and block through it. I really don’t like building tanky but I may be forced to soon.

milllaurie

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

Dodge away

This is where you did the wrong thing. You need to hold block, convergence will whiff and then you can move.

Honestly dodge can see some love. It's enough that it gets damaged by AoEs, which is almost all hard-hitters. It doesn't need to be pull-able, especially by DC.

Still gonna be taking an immense amount of damage even through block. Blastbones, colossus ult, graveyard synergy, plus the damage from DC and Rush. Most of my chars are too squishy to just stand there and block through it. I really don’t like building tanky but I may be forced to soon.

Nope, not immense. Got hit maybe 30 times today with this combo, died 0 times. On a mag class, blocking with a resto.
Keep your HoTs ticking, bro.

ketsparrowhawk

milllaurie wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

Dodge away

This is where you did the wrong thing. You need to hold block, convergence will whiff and then you can move.

Honestly dodge can see some love. It's enough that it gets damaged by AoEs, which is almost all hard-hitters. It doesn't need to be pull-able, especially by DC.

Still gonna be taking an immense amount of damage even through block. Blastbones, colossus ult, graveyard synergy, plus the damage from DC and Rush. Most of my chars are too squishy to just stand there and block through it. I really don’t like building tanky but I may be forced to soon.

Nope, not immense. Got hit maybe 30 times today with this combo, died 0 times. On a mag class, blocking with a resto.
Keep your HoTs ticking, bro.

That's great for you but sets that break the CC rules are not defensible imo.

TechMaybeHic

Over a year later and it's still here. Good thing they nerfed Necros and then gave DKs major berserk! So much better now that it's corrosive, Rush of Agony, and brawler spam on the mass stack of players scaling the un-mitigatable damage through the roof!

On the bright and non-sarcastic side; might be starting to get enough people using it for it to show on the spreadsheet because we can't bother the devs to play the game and see how it ruins gameplay. Maybe we should start encouraging everyone to use it

Udrath

Ravenwatch is the answer but nobody plays there. Only bad thing there is 1v1 usually end up in stalemates.

maxjapank

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

gave DKs major berserk! So much better now that it's corrosive, Rush of Agony, and brawler spam on the mass stack of players scaling the un-mitigatable damage through the roof!

There's nothing wrong with Rush. It's a nice set. The only thing that has changed is DKs getting Major Berserk, which we all know was ridiculous. And as many have said, Corrosive is just a tad overpowered for what it does. It shouldn't ignore all resistances and they need to at least take away the damage reduction that goes with it. One morph for offense. One morph for defense.

TechMaybeHic

maxjapank wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

gave DKs major berserk! So much better now that it's corrosive, Rush of Agony, and brawler spam on the mass stack of players scaling the un-mitigatable damage through the roof!

There's nothing wrong with Rush. It's a nice set. The only thing that has changed is DKs getting Major Berserk, which we all know was ridiculous. And as many have said, Corrosive is just a tad overpowered for what it does. It shouldn't ignore all resistances and they need to at least take away the damage reduction that goes with it. One morph for offense. One morph for defense.

Id rather deal with corrosive than entire groups spamming Rush of Agony as their ONLY CC. So you never get CC immunity from break free. Most you get is 10 seconds from immovable pots, and yoinked around the other 35 seconds. There is plenty wrong with that

Caribou77

Agree with Tech ^^

Lots of ppl/groups spamming ROA for reasons mentioned. Not fun.

React

maxjapank wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

gave DKs major berserk! So much better now that it's corrosive, Rush of Agony, and brawler spam on the mass stack of players scaling the un-mitigatable damage through the roof!

There's nothing wrong with Rush. It's a nice set. The only thing that has changed is DKs getting Major Berserk, which we all know was ridiculous. And as many have said, Corrosive is just a tad overpowered for what it does. It shouldn't ignore all resistances and they need to at least take away the damage reduction that goes with it. One morph for offense. One morph for defense.

What do you mean? ROA ignores a core combat mechanic, which is CC immunity. It is a rule breaker by definition, and should be brought in line. The pull should grant CC immunity.

Thecompton73

React wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

gave DKs major berserk! So much better now that it's corrosive, Rush of Agony, and brawler spam on the mass stack of players scaling the un-mitigatable damage through the roof!

There's nothing wrong with Rush. It's a nice set. The only thing that has changed is DKs getting Major Berserk, which we all know was ridiculous. And as many have said, Corrosive is just a tad overpowered for what it does. It shouldn't ignore all resistances and they need to at least take away the damage reduction that goes with it. One morph for offense. One morph for defense.

What do you mean? ROA ignores a core combat mechanic, which is CC immunity. It is a rule breaker by definition, and should be brought in line. The pull should grant CC immunity.

If they want to leave it as a pull that you can combo into a stun then the Devs need to at least give the pull effect it's own cooldown on a player similar to that on Snake in the Stars or Plaugebreak. Then you couldn't be serially yanked around and locked out of controlling your character by multiple people using it in a coordinated fashion.

MEBengalsFan2001

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Shouldn't CC immunity kick in after the initial pull?

Edit: Nevermind. It's dumb that Rush of Agony's pull doesn't apply CC immunity.

Rush of Agony does have an immunity but only by the player that used Rush of Agony. So if you get 2-3 players using Rush it can result in multiple pulls.

Game balance in ESO is a joke at the moment given how broken gear sets are, classes, etc...

maxjapank

React wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

gave DKs major berserk! So much better now that it's corrosive, Rush of Agony, and brawler spam on the mass stack of players scaling the un-mitigatable damage through the roof!

There's nothing wrong with Rush. It's a nice set. The only thing that has changed is DKs getting Major Berserk, which we all know was ridiculous. And as many have said, Corrosive is just a tad overpowered for what it does. It shouldn't ignore all resistances and they need to at least take away the damage reduction that goes with it. One morph for offense. One morph for defense.

What do you mean? ROA ignores a core combat mechanic, which is CC immunity. It is a rule breaker by definition, and should be brought in line. The pull should grant CC immunity.

Rush of Agony was created to not grant CC immunity. That was the whole purpose of the set. What you want is not what was intended for this set.

React

maxjapank wrote: »

React wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

gave DKs major berserk! So much better now that it's corrosive, Rush of Agony, and brawler spam on the mass stack of players scaling the un-mitigatable damage through the roof!

There's nothing wrong with Rush. It's a nice set. The only thing that has changed is DKs getting Major Berserk, which we all know was ridiculous. And as many have said, Corrosive is just a tad overpowered for what it does. It shouldn't ignore all resistances and they need to at least take away the damage reduction that goes with it. One morph for offense. One morph for defense.

What do you mean? ROA ignores a core combat mechanic, which is CC immunity. It is a rule breaker by definition, and should be brought in line. The pull should grant CC immunity.

Rush of Agony was created to not grant CC immunity. That was the whole purpose of the set. What you want is not what was intended for this set.

Who exactly do you think decided it was a good idea to make a set like this? Do you think it was someone who frequently pvps, and who understands the nuances of PVP? Or do you think it was the same developers responsible for the absolute mess we've had in pvp for years?

My guess is the latter. The truth is that nobody with an average or better understanding of how pvps works would be able to say that this set is fine as is (without bias).

Ignoring the fundamental core mechanic of applying CC immunity is a broken concept. Ignoring CC immunity as an AOE pull which is then followed by an AOE proc that hits as hard as most ultimates is mind boggling-ly overpowered.

maxjapank

React wrote: »

Ignoring the fundamental core mechanic of applying CC immunity is a broken concept. Ignoring CC immunity as an AOE pull which is then followed by an AOE proc that hits as hard as most ultimates is mind boggling-ly overpowered.

How long has this set been out? Over a year and half? And you really haven't found that many complaining about it. Sorry, you're just gonna have to accept that some disagree with you. Just like you are disagreeing with me. Personally, I find it a fun set. But unless you follow up with a stun or an immobilize, it is very easy to get out of. Let's not make everything so homogenous. And let's quit nerfing sets to oblivion that don't need to be. It's honestly tiring.

React

maxjapank wrote: »

React wrote: »

Ignoring the fundamental core mechanic of applying CC immunity is a broken concept. Ignoring CC immunity as an AOE pull which is then followed by an AOE proc that hits as hard as most ultimates is mind boggling-ly overpowered.

How long has this set been out? Over a year and half? And you really haven't found that many complaining about it. Sorry, you're just gonna have to accept that some disagree with you. Just like you are disagreeing with me. Personally, I find it a fun set. But unless you follow up with a stun or an immobilize, it is very easy to get out of. Let's not make everything so homogenous. And let's quit nerfing sets to oblivion that don't need to be. It's honestly tiring.

It's fine to disagree, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But it being objectively broken since it ignores a core combat mechanic isn't really an opinion, its a statement of fact. It is also undeniably overperforming when you look at how hard it hits, how short the CD is, and the AOE pull without immunity.

maxjapank

React wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

React wrote: »

Ignoring the fundamental core mechanic of applying CC immunity is a broken concept. Ignoring CC immunity as an AOE pull which is then followed by an AOE proc that hits as hard as most ultimates is mind boggling-ly overpowered.

How long has this set been out? Over a year and half? And you really haven't found that many complaining about it. Sorry, you're just gonna have to accept that some disagree with you. Just like you are disagreeing with me. Personally, I find it a fun set. But unless you follow up with a stun or an immobilize, it is very easy to get out of. Let's not make everything so homogenous. And let's quit nerfing sets to oblivion that don't need to be. It's honestly tiring.

It's fine to disagree, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But it being objectively broken since it ignores a core combat mechanic isn't really an opinion, its a statement of fact. It is also undeniably overperforming when you look at how hard it hits, how short the CD is, and the AOE pull without immunity.

Again. The set was specifically created to not give cc immunity. It was purposely meant to ignore that. So it is not objectively broken. It is only broken in how you wish it to be.

React

maxjapank wrote: »

React wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

React wrote: »

Ignoring the fundamental core mechanic of applying CC immunity is a broken concept. Ignoring CC immunity as an AOE pull which is then followed by an AOE proc that hits as hard as most ultimates is mind boggling-ly overpowered.

How long has this set been out? Over a year and half? And you really haven't found that many complaining about it. Sorry, you're just gonna have to accept that some disagree with you. Just like you are disagreeing with me. Personally, I find it a fun set. But unless you follow up with a stun or an immobilize, it is very easy to get out of. Let's not make everything so homogenous. And let's quit nerfing sets to oblivion that don't need to be. It's honestly tiring.

It's fine to disagree, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But it being objectively broken since it ignores a core combat mechanic isn't really an opinion, its a statement of fact. It is also undeniably overperforming when you look at how hard it hits, how short the CD is, and the AOE pull without immunity.

Again. The set was specifically created to not give cc immunity. It was purposely meant to ignore that. So it is not objectively broken. It is only broken in how you wish it to be.

"It was designed to work this way, so it isn't broken/overpeforming" simply does not hold up whatsoever when compared to historical examples in eso.

Maras balm on release was working exactly as intended. It was objectively broken/overperforming.

Sloads on release was working exactly as intended. It was objectively broken/overperforming.

Plaguebreak on release was working exactly as intended. It was objectively broken/overperforming.

You see where I'm going with this? Just because some developer who doesn't PVP whatsoever decided the set should work this way, doesn't mean it isn't broken or overperforming. Saying "it is working as intended" isn't synonymous with "it isn't overperforming". When one single thing in the entire game ignores a core combat mechanic that all other things are bound by, it is objectively broken.

Turtle_Bot

The set's been overpowered since its release, all it needed was a good proc (or OP class/ability) to pair with it.

I was running around with a Hrothgar's Chill, RoA, Balorgh, 2H Stamden back when Hrothgar's was released (before its nerf) and was bombing groups easily with stampede into DB into Master's buffed carve.

In some ways, I'm glad I never released that build publicly, but in other ways, I wish I had so RoA would have been balanced much sooner.

All it needs is it's own separate global cooldown per target for its pull to prevent stacking/chaining multiples of them together (like what they did with plague/snake), that way it keeps its niche as a pull set that doesn't proc CC immunity, but won't be the current ping pong effect we see now with multiples being stacked/chained, which is what Dark Convergence got its original nerf for.

TechMaybeHic

It's almost like they want desync with all the ping ponging around. A good knock back thrown in and boom! Your si desync your abilities don't work.

But I guess that sort of thing is intended.

Man I really with one of the "next big things" for MMO large scale battles eventually delivers.

CameraBeardThePirate

maxjapank wrote: »

React wrote: »

Ignoring the fundamental core mechanic of applying CC immunity is a broken concept. Ignoring CC immunity as an AOE pull which is then followed by an AOE proc that hits as hard as most ultimates is mind boggling-ly overpowered.

How long has this set been out? Over a year and half? And you really haven't found that many complaining about it. Sorry, you're just gonna have to accept that some disagree with you. Just like you are disagreeing with me. Personally, I find it a fun set. But unless you follow up with a stun or an immobilize, it is very easy to get out of. Let's not make everything so homogenous. And let's quit nerfing sets to oblivion that don't need to be. It's honestly tiring.

To be fair, the reason you don't find many people running it is because the set's visual bugs making it completely invisible.

I'd wager most of the people complaining about "DC pulling you twice in a row" are actually just experiencing Rush into a DC proc.

The talk about not using a stun shows how you're not really understanding the power of the set. Being able to stun after the pull is exactly what makes it so powerful. It almost doubles the amount of time you can pump damage into the target before they have a chance to do anything.

It's a busted set. Laughably so.

maxjapank

React wrote: »

You see where I'm going with this? Just because some developer who doesn't PVP whatsoever decided the set should work this way, doesn't mean it isn't broken or overperforming. Saying "it is working as intended" isn't synonymous with "it isn't overperforming". When one single thing in the entire game ignores a core combat mechanic that all other things are bound by, it is objectively broken.

What I see you going with is that you want this set nerfed and you are dead set in your convictions in making it a dead set. But perhaps you are not in the right here, no matter however you think you are. Perhaps what you think is fact is in fact not fact. You would not be the first to continuously keep on about nerfing something. It was partly the effort of one or two that eventually led to the gutting of Sweeps for Templars, and now look where they are. So by all means. Take more away from the game. It's not like we are hurting for a pvp population anyways.

CameraBeardThePirate

maxjapank wrote: »

React wrote: »

You see where I'm going with this? Just because some developer who doesn't PVP whatsoever decided the set should work this way, doesn't mean it isn't broken or overperforming. Saying "it is working as intended" isn't synonymous with "it isn't overperforming". When one single thing in the entire game ignores a core combat mechanic that all other things are bound by, it is objectively broken.

What I see you going with is that you want this set nerfed and you are dead set in your convictions in making it a dead set. But perhaps you are not in the right here, no matter however you think you are. Perhaps what you think is fact is in fact not fact. You would not be the first to continuously keep on about nerfing something. It was partly the effort of one or two that eventually led to the gutting of Sweeps for Templars, and now look where they are. So by all means. Take more away from the game. It's not like we are hurting for a pvp population anyways.

Sorry but nerfing overpowered sets is not the reason this game's PvP population is hurting. If anything, Rush of Agony has done damage to the population.

Mansquito

RoA is just a way for groups to counter the tank meta. You have to run in coordinated groups to get anything done due to the prevalence of yanky, unkillable Wardens and DKs. A lot of things have contributed to this situation.

I personally think that the PvP situation needs so many issues addressing that RoA is right at the very bottom. If we're gunna nerf stuff, nerf DKs and Wardens to bring them in line with other classes first. Then nerf Mara's Balm. Once this is done the variety amongst builds will be much broader and perhaps some new tactics and builds will become viable for small-scalers, allowing for less organised RoA groups.

Before all of that though, fix the lag. It's single handedly the most detrimental issue to PvP numbers and enjoyment right now, not any of the aforementioned stuff. If this game is to continue to have a healthy PvP population then this is absolutely imperative.

ketsparrowhawk

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

React wrote: »

You see where I'm going with this? Just because some developer who doesn't PVP whatsoever decided the set should work this way, doesn't mean it isn't broken or overperforming. Saying "it is working as intended" isn't synonymous with "it isn't overperforming". When one single thing in the entire game ignores a core combat mechanic that all other things are bound by, it is objectively broken.

What I see you going with is that you want this set nerfed and you are dead set in your convictions in making it a dead set. But perhaps you are not in the right here, no matter however you think you are. Perhaps what you think is fact is in fact not fact. You would not be the first to continuously keep on about nerfing something. It was partly the effort of one or two that eventually led to the gutting of Sweeps for Templars, and now look where they are. So by all means. Take more away from the game. It's not like we are hurting for a pvp population anyways.

Sorry but nerfing overpowered sets is not the reason this game's PvP population is hurting. If anything, Rush of Agony has done damage to the population.

100%. Sets like RoA / dark convergence, and metas like the one that just ended with the oppressive cc spam is what pushes people away. If anything addressing problem sets like RoA will only bring people who left back. We already see the effects of addressing wall of frost. BG's are fun again and I'm seeing a ton of people log on that I haven't seen in months. There's an example of something being "taken away" and having a hugely positive effect.

I wager RoA would still be widely used even if it didn't ignore the cc rules. An aoe pull followed by delayed burst than can be combo'd with any number of things is plenty valuable in pvp.

Caribou77

^^ Agree.

People still use dark convergence, in its “nerfed” form, to good effect for a certain playing style.

If everyone’s using the same overpowered/imbalanced set (or class), it greatly diminishes the game by making it limited, repetitive, tedious, and uninteresting.

Diverse viable builds and classes make the game more dynamic, surprising, unpredictable, and fun.

This is why an overused/abused set like ROA, or having a significant disparity in class balance drives people away from PVP.

rauyran

RoA was designed not to apply CC immunity so that it wouldn't interfere with tanks pulling in PVE content. If you want to add CC immunity then you need to be able to convince the tanks that its a good idea.

ketsparrowhawk

rauyran wrote: »

RoA was designed not to apply CC immunity so that it wouldn't interfere with tanks pulling in PVE content. If you want to add CC immunity then you need to be able to convince the tanks that its a good idea.

No you don't. Do they ever get player approval when they rebalance things?? Of course not. Besides I rarely if ever see tanks use this in serious PVE content.