Too many bad healers in dungeons

ixthUA

Today i had a healer with 50k HP, who could not even heal himself (=stay alive), after 2 wipes he ragequit and my Mirri was summoned, who stayed alive through the whole last boss fight. I wonder what makes them queue to vet, with a spectator build made for normal dungeons.

Stirvik

I just don't like fake healers / fake Tanks, yes I understand that players have to learn the trade, I just wish player's at the start would tell the group, that they are either fake or new, Healer or Tank, then one could make any adjustments to front/back bar.

ixthUA

Today in normal black drake villa team wiped on the first boss (no one did revive), healer ragequit and my mirri was summoned. We finished 1st boss (2nd try) and the rest of the dungeon without a healer (my mirri is a DD build) or a single death. It seems that some healers are useless indeed.

Molydeus

Fake tanks are the biggest issue. Unless you're doing vet DLC dungeons you should be able to heal yourself. Self-healing is obscene in ESO.

ixthUA

So whats the healers task then, if they cant even heal?

Amottica

1. Just like there is fake tanks one should expect fake healers.
2. SPC is not a requirement for healing a pug group. It is nice to have but does not make a bad for not having it.
3. Concerning Hollowfang, the second point is relevant.

In a pug dungeon group if you are getting heals the healer is doing their job. If they are providing some buffs and resources to any degree it is cause to rejoice. It is a pug group after all. Forming one's own group with requirements for each player in mind will get you the group, or close to the group, you want. Queueing for a random group will get you very random players.

Dem_kitkats1

ixthUA wrote: »

So whats the healers task then, if they cant even heal?

Buff botting and damaging at this point lol. Unless your group is struggling of course; then you should be healing as well. The problem is that normal dungeons don't allow for new players to actually learn rotations, and combat techniques because of their easiness. It's rare that the entire group is so low lvl that dedicated supports are actually needed, so they're pretty much just extra bodies, as strong DDs can practically take care of everything. Even in a lot of vet dungeons DDs and Tanks can take care of their own healing. So when new healers actually get into harder content with groups that actually require more from them, they're unprepared.

ixthUA

I met a lot of healers that arent damaging or buffing.

Dojohoda

I'm grateful to be reading a debate on healing, gear, etc.

Dem_kitkats1

ixthUA wrote: »

I met a lot of healers that arent damaging or buffing.

Then they're just bad at the game. It becomes a player issue of them just not knowing at all what to do at that point, because they've never had to actually fulfill their role. You just get bad players in PUGs in general. I've met many DDs who didn't deal damage in them as well.

Metaferret

Paramedicus wrote: »

there are too many bad healers in dungeons because they arent needed that much. If there was enough pressure to git gut, players would git gut (at least some of them).

Enemy's damage in dungs is usually too low, and self-heals too good, so true healer isnt needed in 95% of cases.

Damage gap between good DD and some casual PVEer/typical PVPer is so big that using damage/sustain buffs/sets is a risk (you can actually lower chances to finish the dung if you go full support instead going DD).

It's a game design flaw.

I think a lot of the comments on here are spot on as I heal a fair bit in dungeons. Group composition is so varied in PUGs that saying a one size fits all approach is correct isn’t reasonable. I can spec full heal/support and take forever to get through a dungeon or spec more dps and slot one hot and one burst and get through quickly. Or sometimes one has to be full heal/support or some other hybrid. I just feel it out and adjust on the fly. But suggesting a single correct approach will fail or be subideal in many situations in both base game and DLC dungeons (reg or vet).

M0ntie

If you want specific gear on a healer, queue with buddies.

Honestly there is so little damage in normal dungeons that a full healer is wasted - you can do more damage as half a dps than you can buff into most 2 random dps. Many people are running normal dungeons as a random to level CP or skills - usually I'll be running crafted sets (Julianos) in training.

If you're talking BIS for dungeons, I've had top tanks say they prefer to run PA, so you can't assume that a healer is going to run PA. As a healer main, for dungeon achievements I'll run SPC, SOB and either PA or MA depending on the fight and what the tank is wearing.

JanTanhide

Interesting Thread. After the numerous Threads about Healers being totally unneeded in Vet dungeons here we are discussing how much Healers ARE needed.

LOL. Hey, I agree, Healers ARE needed and a good Healer makes a big difference in hard core dungeon runs. CP doesn't matter so much as long as the Healer is good at their rotation and has some decent gear equipped.

I like Spell Power Cure myself and have it on all my Healers. The Monster set(s) I use varies depending on a PUG or with people I know. If it's a PUG I usually just slot Earthgore. I've seen too many DPS just stand in the red warm glow of love on the ground and die over and over. I have to tell them in Group chat to "Don't stand in the red". Usually they don't respond but when they do it's some snide remark about the Healer not doing the job. Sigh. Can't fix Stupid.

Symphony of Blades is a fantastic set to run for those intensive fights where stats need regen a lot.

Back to my favorite sets for a Healer: SPC and usually Kag's if on my Templar Healer. If more juice is needed to buff DPS I put something else on but I really like Kags. It's a fantastic set. On a Templar using it and having CP selected for quicker rezzes you can almost instantly rez someone. So for PUG runs it's Earthgore, SPC and Kags.

Lately I've been messing around with Coldharbour's Favorite on my lowbie Necro Healer. What a fun set to play with! Not conventional but I've paired it with Dark Convergence for now. It's an interesting combination for sure.

But I digress. I agree mostly with the author of this thread that a lot of Healers are not really Healers. They are DPS with Healing sets on or at least one in most cases and a few Healing skills from the Resto line. For a Healer to be at maximum effectiveness the appropriate CP must be selected as well. On my main or "real" Healer she is 100% CP allocated for Healing. Nothing else. The difference between my main Healer and my "DPS" Healer, both Templars with the same gear is absolutely amazing. It's very easy to see the difference in hard dungeons when I use the pseudo Healer instead of the main Healer. But there are times when my friends ask me to bring the pseudo Healer because we need more DPS and everyone is pretty good at avoiding damage.

Good thread. I'm glad to see a lot of folks discussing Healers and how much they are needed after all the dozens of Threads about how useless a Healer is. Keep in mind not all of us have Alcast super abilities to run through Vet Scalecaller Peak hardmode in under 20 minutes achieving No Death, Speed Run and Hard mode in one run. (Yes, he and his group did it iirc).

nesmewno

90% of veteran dungeons are passed without problems in 3 dd+tank.(some of them run in 4 DD)
50% of veteran dungeons are completed solo.

I often run the role of a healer on dd characters. Without spec CP heal and healer sets.
But I always play this role. Orbs and one or two heal skills are enough.

Recently I met an interesting healer - Stamina in Blood Moon + Grisly Gourmet using vigor)

Mordrynne

ixthUA wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Word of Advice - if you want healers who meet your standards, take note of them when you see them. Ask to friend them if they'd be interested in running more dungeons with you. Running with random is going to get you random people with varying levels of skill and wearing random gear. When you meet a healer who meets your checklist, friend them, and you'll end up with a list of good healers for you.

When i see a 1000+ CP healer i expect them to have similar experience to mine, yet they are not on the same level, which is a mystery for me.

They might just be getting into healing because they don't have a solid group to play with hence putting up with this kind of attitude in random groups. The 1000 cp could almost entirely be from a tank or dps play style. Don't forget that you can reset all of your stats and completely change your role. 99% of the time it's the person that starts laying into everyone about their character/armor/skills that's causing the party to wipe. Often it's because they don't dodge or block and insist on standing in the boss' area of effect. Either that or no one's making sure the entire party knows the boss mechanic. I'm not sure how anyone expects the rest of the team to play better after snapping at them but I'm guessing they're minors.

Honestly, if it's a normal difficulty dungeon you don't need a healer. Self healing + a fake healer should do because you're blocking/dodging while killing things too fast for the damage to really catch up with you. I've had to be the tank AND the healer before. It worked out because DPS was good about dodging and staying off the business end of the boss. So, really, you only need the healer to optimize for some of the vet content and most people are going to be so thoroughly sick of unorganized groups that don't communicate for any reason aside from laying into each other that they'll make friends to go do this stuff with when they're ready to invest in getting geared, improving their stats and working out which skills they need.

Rittings

SPC isn’t needed in 4 man content if your tank runs Olorime instead… pugs are a mess at times but coordinated 4 man content is super fun… I’d like to see this expanded to Two person stuff and maybe 6 or 8 person too

AvalonRanger

ixthUA wrote: »

After healing for 2 years, i've been tanking dungeons for several weeks and realized there are a lot of bad healers.
1/3 of healers are DDs with only self heal slotted, even on veteran.
1/3 of healers are not using spell power cure set, a must-have set for healers. I can see a big difference in my own damage when this set is not present.
1/3 of healers are using Hollowfang set, which is mostly useless: 6 meters effect radius and restores only magicka (a lot of DDs are stamina, tank needs mostly stamina).
Many healers are not stacking HoTs and dont know how to emergent burst heal (lots of dead healers and DDs).
For dungeons, i consider Spell Power Cure + Powerful Assault + Symphony of Blades to be BIS: +730 weapon/spell damage and main resource regeneration when needed. Haven't yet met a healer using this combo.

1/3 of healers are not using spell power cure set..

When I meet white gold tower by "rnd", I usually checking SPC set of my farming for SPC lovers.
Because, many people mention about this gear. like "If SPC weapon" in group chat.
Why SPC set is so meaningful for the healer style players?

AvalonRanger

Paramedicus wrote: »

there are too many bad healers in dungeons because they arent needed that much. If there was enough pressure to git gut, players would git gut (at least some of them).

Enemy's damage in dungs is usually too low, and self-heals too good, so true healer isnt needed in 95% of cases.

Damage gap between good DD and some casual PVEer/typical PVPer is so big that using damage/sustain buffs/sets is a risk (you can actually lower chances to finish the dung if you go full support instead going DD).

It's a game design flaw.

As a tank role, I prefer "skillful self healing DD" rather than glass healer.

MidniteOwl1913

In a recent pug run we had just started out when someone announced there was no healer. I thought that was odd because I looked and we had all four members. I looked again and the person who announced no healer, was the healer. :-( On one hand fake healer, on the other at least I know now to put on my ring of pale order.

This was a nDLC dungeon. We got thru, but I don't think it's okay to slot in as a healer with no intent to do the job. One good thing about being a healer (aside from the fact a really like it) means I never have to worry about a fake healer.

Amottica

ixthUA wrote: »

I met a lot of healers that arent damaging or buffing.

Not surprising. Lots of DDs that are not doing much damage. I assume the healers you speak of did a little healing at least.

AvalonRanger

Too many fake tank everywhere...in normal PUG run. That's more problem.
That's the most reason we can't build pure DPS build in ESO.

CompM4s

Its rare that you need a dedicated healer, unless the other 2 dds are inexperienced.

FeedbackOnly

CompM4s wrote: »

Its rare that you need a dedicated healer, unless the other 2 dds are inexperienced.

Check out this patch now for this statement

Gargath

ixthUA wrote: »

1/3 of healers are not using spell power cure set, a must-have set for healers.

A must-have...
Exactly such thinking... pushed me away from healing in PvE.

EldritchSun

Gargath wrote: »

ixthUA wrote: »

1/3 of healers are not using spell power cure set, a must-have set for healers.

A must-have...
Exactly such thinking... pushed me away from healing in PvE.

This is how meta and high-end community behave in the game: You either use this, this and that skill, or you're trash and must not play.

I agree that fake roles in pugs are cancer, but when someone tries to decide how and with what you must play (unless it's high-end organized content), I wanna smash that person right in their teeth.

preevious

I wouldn't say SPC is a must-have.

It is, however, very nice, and your DDs will thank you for it. (it conflicts with olorime, but it's more readily available, and a good healer can give you incredible uptime of major courage with it (as long as you, as a DD, don't goof of))

Same is any resources-restoring sets (sentinel, symphony .. )

Not mandatory, but really helpfull.

As a DD, if I push high numbers in 4-man content, I always thank the tank and healer for the great buffs/debuffs.

AvalonRanger

ixthUA wrote: »

Today i had a healer with 50k HP, who could not even heal himself (=stay alive), after 2 wipes he ragequit and my Mirri was summoned, who stayed alive through the whole last boss fight. I wonder what makes them queue to vet, with a spectator build made for normal dungeons.

Dungeon is becoming just gear farming ground. This is not player's problem, but developer can't stop this.
I've already seen few of speed runner at the newest dungeon yesterday. Basically they do solo selfish build.

(solo selfish build means= self tanking, self healing, little bit better damage than pure tank.)

Keep pushing forward until reaching the last boss, ignore every secret and mobs.
Because they just want gear collection, not for enjoying pure exploring.

ZOS must change player's interest direction to the more exploring than just farming,
but they can't, Because they keep building copy and paste cloning dungeon over and over.
It's a lack of skill to make new gimmick or contemporary quality action game design.

Grouping mission become mandatory for gear farming, not for entertainment.

Well... how about making chance to get weapon and jewelry drop point at the other boss?
Then people change their mind right? (but it's a cheapest solution, I don't like it though.)

AvalonRanger

Some people regard player who has 1 slot share healing skill as real healer.
Oh, come on! Stop those nonsense post. 70% PUG healer is sucks in dungeon.

Healer who can't do effective emergency healing at the dangerous situation is
"FAKE HEALER". Healer doesn't have sharing damage buff is also "FAKE HEALER".

And I've seen many of crappy healer who let DD down so easily, and brain dead mostly.

boi_anachronism_

ixthUA wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Word of Advice - if you want healers who meet your standards, take note of them when you see them. Ask to friend them if they'd be interested in running more dungeons with you. Running with random is going to get you random people with varying levels of skill and wearing random gear. When you meet a healer who meets your checklist, friend them, and you'll end up with a list of good healers for you.

When i see a 1000+ CP healer i expect them to have similar experience to mine, yet they are not on the same level, which is a mystery for me.

This is a wrong assumption. They may have been a dps until nw and just started healing. Heck im 1800+ and i just started tanking. Its super stressful that people think that way. Also not everyone can afford something like pa. Spc i get sure. As a tank though im always tt, pa, arch druid. Im stoked if my healer comes in spaulder and pearlescent. Makes ma day

My healer has spaulder rn but i dont have his spc ready. Im hurting for transmutes from building tank and dd gear. Running all three is expensive.

Dojohoda

I used my healer a few times during the undaunted event. I noticed a player that I could not heal. I figured the player was wearing Ring of Pale Order. I noticed something else, it appeared the player could not receive the SPC buff from me. I watched for the purple arms .. it never happened.