Are the Celestial Guardians Magna GE?

atherusmora

Potentially stupid question(s):

I’ve been wondering, if the Children of Magnus left the stars we see as they tore from Nirn to Aetherius, would that mean that the Celestial Guardians are in fact also Magna Ge? Or are they some other type of Aedra guarding the portals to Aetherius? Are we speaking to Magna GE during main Craglorn quest? Are we fighting Magna Ge in AA and HR trials?

prof-dracko

It's left really unclear. At best we can assume they're some kind of ascended mortals.

atherusmora

prof-dracko wrote: »

It's left really unclear. At best we can assume they're some kind of ascended mortals.

prof-dracko wrote: »

It's left really unclear. At best we can assume they're some kind of ascended mortals.

Ascended Mortals? Who would they have been before becoming Guardians? I know the Warrior seems to work as a mantle of some sort in the quest, but the Mage was split in what might be explained as identical siblings? Who were they before mantling the Mage, and the thief seems to have only been using the stargazer as a disguise. Are there other examples of mortals mantling a Celestial guardian?

Jaimeh

atherusmora wrote: »

prof-dracko wrote: »

It's left really unclear. At best we can assume they're some kind of ascended mortals.

prof-dracko wrote: »

It's left really unclear. At best we can assume they're some kind of ascended mortals.

Ascended Mortals? Who would they have been before becoming Guardians? I know the Warrior seems to work as a mantle of some sort in the quest, but the Mage was split in what might be explained as identical siblings? Who were they before mantling the Mage, and the thief seems to have only been using the stargazer as a disguise. Are there other examples of mortals mantling a Celestial guardian?

From uesp.net: That same year, an Imperial mage named Cassipia attempted to copy the Nedes by becoming a Celestial. Calling herself the Exalted Viper, Cassipia planned to usurp the Serpent's place in the sky, but she was slain in her mortal form before she could ascend.

This implies that Celestial involved some sort of ascension, though the same source states that the Thief/Mage/Warrior from the Craglorn quests were manifestations of fallen constellations.

atherusmora

Jaimeh wrote: »

atherusmora wrote: »

prof-dracko wrote: »

It's left really unclear. At best we can assume they're some kind of ascended mortals.

prof-dracko wrote: »

It's left really unclear. At best we can assume they're some kind of ascended mortals.

Ascended Mortals? Who would they have been before becoming Guardians? I know the Warrior seems to work as a mantle of some sort in the quest, but the Mage was split in what might be explained as identical siblings? Who were they before mantling the Mage, and the thief seems to have only been using the stargazer as a disguise. Are there other examples of mortals mantling a Celestial guardian?

From uesp.net: That same year, an Imperial mage named Cassipia attempted to copy the Nedes by becoming a Celestial. Calling herself the Exalted Viper, Cassipia planned to usurp the Serpent's place in the sky, but she was slain in her mortal form before she could ascend.

This implies that Celestial involved some sort of ascension, though the same source states that the Thief/Mage/Warrior from the Craglorn quests were manifestations of fallen constellations.

I am familiar with this perspective, and definitely can see that implication. Constellations are patterns of stars that we use for navigation, among other things. I know using IRL logic is a big no no in these kinds of discussions, but wouldn’t constellations seen from Nirn be patterns of portals (stars) left by the Magna Ge? Who were the original Celestials if they were Ascended mortals who later fell(what does this mean)? Did they become mortal again? Did the pass to Aetherius? Did the Magna Ge create them or provide the means to ascend to that state? I can’t help but feel like the Magna Ge are intrinsically tied to them, if not residual forms or Avatars of them.

Jaimeh

atherusmora wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

atherusmora wrote: »

prof-dracko wrote: »

It's left really unclear. At best we can assume they're some kind of ascended mortals.

prof-dracko wrote: »

It's left really unclear. At best we can assume they're some kind of ascended mortals.

Ascended Mortals? Who would they have been before becoming Guardians? I know the Warrior seems to work as a mantle of some sort in the quest, but the Mage was split in what might be explained as identical siblings? Who were they before mantling the Mage, and the thief seems to have only been using the stargazer as a disguise. Are there other examples of mortals mantling a Celestial guardian?

From uesp.net: That same year, an Imperial mage named Cassipia attempted to copy the Nedes by becoming a Celestial. Calling herself the Exalted Viper, Cassipia planned to usurp the Serpent's place in the sky, but she was slain in her mortal form before she could ascend.

This implies that Celestial involved some sort of ascension, though the same source states that the Thief/Mage/Warrior from the Craglorn quests were manifestations of fallen constellations.

I am familiar with this perspective, and definitely can see that implication. Constellations are patterns of stars that we use for navigation, among other things. I know using IRL logic is a big no no in these kinds of discussions, but wouldn’t constellations seen from Nirn be patterns of portals (stars) left by the Magna Ge? Who were the original Celestials if they were Ascended mortals who later fell(what does this mean)? Did they become mortal again? Did the pass to Aetherius? Did the Magna Ge create them or provide the means to ascend to that state? I can’t help but feel like the Magna Ge are intrinsically tied to them, if not residual forms or Avatars of them.

That's interesting, but then I wonder how would it work since Celestials are manifestations of constellations, not single stars (assuming a Magna Ge piercing the sky upon exit was responsible for a single star), and also, like most of the lore, there's contention whether stars were created because of the Magna Ge at all: Many other et'Ada, who became known as the Magna Ge, followed Magnus, tearing smaller holes in the sky, which became the stars. Though it is sometimes believed that the stars are actually fragments of Magnus himself.. There's a comment in the Craglorn quest, made by the Star Gazers who study the stars, when the Vestige asks about the Celestials, saying that they never heard the name 'Celestial' before, so even if the Celestials are manifestations of the constellations, it's a not well-known entity. Also, about the fall part, I think it happened because the Serpent escaped, so after that quest, when the Thief says 'We must depart', they ascended again.

atherusmora

Jaimeh wrote: »

atherusmora wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

atherusmora wrote: »

prof-dracko wrote: »

It's left really unclear. At best we can assume they're some kind of ascended mortals.

prof-dracko wrote: »

It's left really unclear. At best we can assume they're some kind of ascended mortals.

Ascended Mortals? Who would they have been before becoming Guardians? I know the Warrior seems to work as a mantle of some sort in the quest, but the Mage was split in what might be explained as identical siblings? Who were they before mantling the Mage, and the thief seems to have only been using the stargazer as a disguise. Are there other examples of mortals mantling a Celestial guardian?

From uesp.net: That same year, an Imperial mage named Cassipia attempted to copy the Nedes by becoming a Celestial. Calling herself the Exalted Viper, Cassipia planned to usurp the Serpent's place in the sky, but she was slain in her mortal form before she could ascend.

This implies that Celestial involved some sort of ascension, though the same source states that the Thief/Mage/Warrior from the Craglorn quests were manifestations of fallen constellations.

I am familiar with this perspective, and definitely can see that implication. Constellations are patterns of stars that we use for navigation, among other things. I know using IRL logic is a big no no in these kinds of discussions, but wouldn’t constellations seen from Nirn be patterns of portals (stars) left by the Magna Ge? Who were the original Celestials if they were Ascended mortals who later fell(what does this mean)? Did they become mortal again? Did the pass to Aetherius? Did the Magna Ge create them or provide the means to ascend to that state? I can’t help but feel like the Magna Ge are intrinsically tied to them, if not residual forms or Avatars of them.

That's interesting, but then I wonder how would it work since Celestials are manifestations of constellations, not single stars (assuming a Magna Ge piercing the sky upon exit was responsible for a single star), and also, like most of the lore, there's contention whether stars were created because of the Magna Ge at all: Many other et'Ada, who became known as the Magna Ge, followed Magnus, tearing smaller holes in the sky, which became the stars. Though it is sometimes believed that the stars are actually fragments of Magnus himself.. There's a comment in the Craglorn quest, made by the Star Gazers who study the stars, when the Vestige asks about the Celestials, saying that they never heard the name 'Celestial' before, so even if the Celestials are manifestations of the constellations, it's a not well-known entity. Also, about the fall part, I think it happened because the Serpent escaped, so after that quest, when the Thief says 'We must depart', they ascended again.

Gotta love these unreliable narrators. “Answers” are really questions without proper punctuation lol. The Serpent is a Celestial too, but it behaves in a very padomaic way. This could point to them not being Magna Ge, but then again Meridia was once a Magna Ge. Considering that Magna Ge is more title than species, or is it. Would that put Celestials in that gray area between Daedra and Aedra, with the potential to become either? Maybe the Serpent was trying to become a Daedric Prince. Maybe the Serpent is Peryite!!!! Ok okay I admit that last one was pretty tin foily. Lol.

Jaimeh

atherusmora wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

atherusmora wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

atherusmora wrote: »

prof-dracko wrote: »

It's left really unclear. At best we can assume they're some kind of ascended mortals.

prof-dracko wrote: »

It's left really unclear. At best we can assume they're some kind of ascended mortals.

Ascended Mortals? Who would they have been before becoming Guardians? I know the Warrior seems to work as a mantle of some sort in the quest, but the Mage was split in what might be explained as identical siblings? Who were they before mantling the Mage, and the thief seems to have only been using the stargazer as a disguise. Are there other examples of mortals mantling a Celestial guardian?

From uesp.net: That same year, an Imperial mage named Cassipia attempted to copy the Nedes by becoming a Celestial. Calling herself the Exalted Viper, Cassipia planned to usurp the Serpent's place in the sky, but she was slain in her mortal form before she could ascend.

This implies that Celestial involved some sort of ascension, though the same source states that the Thief/Mage/Warrior from the Craglorn quests were manifestations of fallen constellations.

I am familiar with this perspective, and definitely can see that implication. Constellations are patterns of stars that we use for navigation, among other things. I know using IRL logic is a big no no in these kinds of discussions, but wouldn’t constellations seen from Nirn be patterns of portals (stars) left by the Magna Ge? Who were the original Celestials if they were Ascended mortals who later fell(what does this mean)? Did they become mortal again? Did the pass to Aetherius? Did the Magna Ge create them or provide the means to ascend to that state? I can’t help but feel like the Magna Ge are intrinsically tied to them, if not residual forms or Avatars of them.

That's interesting, but then I wonder how would it work since Celestials are manifestations of constellations, not single stars (assuming a Magna Ge piercing the sky upon exit was responsible for a single star), and also, like most of the lore, there's contention whether stars were created because of the Magna Ge at all: Many other et'Ada, who became known as the Magna Ge, followed Magnus, tearing smaller holes in the sky, which became the stars. Though it is sometimes believed that the stars are actually fragments of Magnus himself.. There's a comment in the Craglorn quest, made by the Star Gazers who study the stars, when the Vestige asks about the Celestials, saying that they never heard the name 'Celestial' before, so even if the Celestials are manifestations of the constellations, it's a not well-known entity. Also, about the fall part, I think it happened because the Serpent escaped, so after that quest, when the Thief says 'We must depart', they ascended again.

Gotta love these unreliable narrators. “Answers” are really questions without proper punctuation lol.

Yeah, a lot of the lore is like that, and I guess it's on purpose, to keep the discussion going, and also for having more material for stories in the games. Maybe this Celestial/Magna Ge hypothesis would be a good topic for the Loremaster next time he accepts questions on his Twitter, or for an ESO live episode.