Pre-50 pvp

slimwaffle

So there are a lot of issue with pvp that I'm not going into. Its all been said before at some point.

But I literally just witnessed an event that explains a lot about eso pvp. It is my opinion that pre-50 bgs need to be more new player friendly.
So I can't find a better word for it but "twinking". This was a thing in wow where players would max out a character for a low level and turn off exp gain. Its similar to that just without turning the experience gain off.

So 2 new players go into a battleground and decide after 1 match, eso pvp is not for them.
There is a guy in the fully kitted out to the nines. He has put the maximum amount of effort he can into his character (good for him). But these poor newbies are getting one and 2 shot. Now the guy played decently. He got around 30 kills no deaths (again good for him). But these poor newbies just kept dying from 1-2 shots over and over. And at the end of the match decide they are done with eso pvp.

So this whole event has me concerned. Numbers are already dipping. Ques are already getting longer. So after witnessing this I am now a bit worried about the future of battleground pvp.
@Zos I think pre-50 should have mmr the same as level 50 battlegrounds, or maybe gear score brackets. I don't think extremely new players should be encountering these super swets. On such an uneven playing field. There are probably going to be a ton of people who disagree (people love their easy kills). But thinking about new players isn't exactly a bad idea.

SkaraMinoc

The word "twink" for a low level alt w/ good gear always cracks me up.

trackdemon5512

I don’t understand how under 50 BGs should even be allowed to exist.

With the current ease at which players can level toons from 1 to 50 there should only be no CP BGs. Arguably it would be healthier for the devs to accelerate players hitting CP even faster considering the immense amount of points they now have to accumulate.

Under 50 BGs has too much of a population that’s rerolling characters with maxed gear and more importantly players with a very deep understanding of mechanics against those that are totally inexperienced. It needs to go, and in doing so you would strengthen the overall BG population rather than having to split it based on CP.

McTaterskins

"Twinking" is a 20+ yr old term.

Oddly love that people still use it. Haha. Reminds me of EQ1 and before. (My earliest MMO days myself.)

Aldoss

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

I don’t understand how under 50 BGs should even be allowed to exist.

Completely agree.

There's way too many issues with game balance in this. A new toon with enough skill points can fully level werewolf with maxed skills by lvl 12 or 13 and instantly be the most aggressively overpowered force in low lvl bgs.

Wardens acquire most of their defining class skills in the first half of their trees, minus arctic wind, making them extremely tanky in low level bgs.

It's extremely common to have at least 2, but I've seen as many as half the lobby be these twinks, most of whom choose not to waste time on each other (since they're all so tanky) and instead choose to grief the under geared or unsuspecting.

Many of the twinks show up in the top 10 of the weekly leader boards and have not once stepped foot in the over 50 bgs. It's pretty pathetic.

auz

No way should they get rid of low level bgs. Low level bgs are fun for the most part and with a much lower number of proc sets. I level all my toons in bgs. In purple gear. I would not be averse to a standardised gear set ups to put everyone one equal footing. It is frustrating to be hitting someone and their health barely move, but there are worse things in the world. I would also remove the ability to buy skill lines at low level.

HiImRex

Fun way to level I say keep it

Those two guys probably would have had the same experience in post 50 BGs

ESO pvp is super fast paced. Good builds and good play can keep you alive much longer than you have any right to, but that exact same set up can and will die in the blink of an eye if you don’t play right. I would encourage your two friends to re evaluate their builds and then take a more measured and planned approach to eso pvp. Lots of potential fun to be had in learning and mastering eso pvp imo

Dem_kitkats1

I also don't believe they should get rid of low level battlegrounds. They are a good way for players to get used to the BG environment before going up against really sweaty BG crowds in post 50. In my experience the learning curve is significant enough jumping from pre 50 to post 50 with having had some experience with BGs already. Yes there are definitely try hards in the low levels, but most of the players are on a more equal playing field when it comes to obtaining sets and skills. And in my experience, I was also one of the players who had a lot of fun in lowbies.

However, as others have suggested there maybe should be changes in matching players. Perhaps having some kind of MMR like in post 50 or match players based on levels. A player at level 15 is significantly at a disadvantage to a player close to max.

And to be honest, I feel that DM should not be the priority mode in lowbies. I think the que changes caused the population to drop significantly as DM can be overwhelming and frustrating for new players.

RevJJ

Below 50 BGs used to be a fun way to level up a toon. Now it’s just a way for sweaty rerollers to farm new players.

Reconstruction, sticker book and curated drops have turned it into that.

Below 50 BGs should not allow reconstructed gear.

Jierdanit

RevJJ wrote: »

Below 50 BGs used to be a fun way to level up a toon. Now it’s just a way for sweaty rerollers to farm new players.

Reconstruction, sticker book and curated drops have turned it into that.

Below 50 BGs should not allow reconstructed gear.

You absolutely do not need reconstructed gear to farm new players in below 50 BGs.
And they already were used for that purpose for a long time before reconstruction ever existed.

NerfSeige

I mean, if everyone there goes on armor looted when questing, the better and more experienced players will still dominate. Newbies haven’t grasped the concept of refreshing buffs and keeping up heals yet so they will still be clobbered anyway.

Though reconstructed proc sets are too much try hard imo, I rather they keep it cause I wear heartland for leveling and the extra percent can really help when you don’t want to invest time in grinding and just do one random dungeon and bg per day until the toon is 50.

I think they should make mmr account wide tbh and fix team matching to prevent a poorly balanced roster where all the scrubs are grouped up vs a team of all vets.

KhajiitLivesMatter

RevJJ wrote: »

Below 50 BGs used to be a fun way to level up a toon. Now it’s just a way for sweaty rerollers to farm new players.

Reconstruction, sticker book and curated drops have turned it into that.

Below 50 BGs should not allow reconstructed gear.

isnt that the same thing? i lvl my twinks in bgs to cause its fun - but at the same time i get (sometimes) 50+ kills ?

and reconstrion and sticker book have litterly 0 effect on low lvl bgs cause u can dominate with craft sets alone

aerobar104

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

RevJJ wrote: »

Below 50 BGs used to be a fun way to level up a toon. Now it’s just a way for sweaty rerollers to farm new players.

Reconstruction, sticker book and curated drops have turned it into that.

Below 50 BGs should not allow reconstructed gear.

isnt that the same thing? i lvl my twinks in bgs to cause its fun - but at the same time i get (sometimes) 50+ kills ?

and reconstrion and sticker book have litterly 0 effect on low lvl bgs cause u can dominate with craft sets alone

So being able to maximise skill lines, buy skyshards for points, crafting and enchanting the best gear every 5 levels is not having a distinct advantage? It's P2W that's what it is. No skill whatsoever involved. Spam stampede, dizzying swing and executioner and noobs are dead. Where is the skill?

xPoisin

low lvl BGs are a pure crap nowadays… If you are a mid level player or a high MMR player you have only two options ( for solo queues ) :
1. you join a mid level players /high MMR premades and you can win or be second
2. you join a team that is unable to counter anything and just dies within few secs

I play BGs every day and in solo queue under lvl 50 I can do 25+ kills in good team but also can do 25+ deaths with 0 kills with bad team….

I think that BGs under 50 should never make a match where lvl 10-15 are fighting lvl 30+ … And also pls remove deathmatch from random queue as we have a solo deathmatch queue already…

Neglekt

I recently gotten into "twinking" BGs to farm the DDF lead, but have had trouble stepping away from it because I truly found < lvl 50 PvP to be superior from a game design perspective. The idea that thrashing noobs is fun or even sustainable is a misconception. MMR has consistently routed me into matches exclusively vs. other twinks pretty fast (~first 2 to 3 matches) across several characters. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just that I don't see this as a core motivation for people who are really focused on low level PvP.

Take a minute and consider how much of CP160 PvP is people running around with the same arena wep + mythic / monster set + (guild / weapon / world) skills executing identical combos and positioning regardless of the class. Of course class skills still perturb play style; but usually only superficially ~and rarely on the back bar.

Limiting the skill pool and removing the most play-style altering items (mythics, monster sets, and arena weps) forces people to actually rely on their class skills, rather than gear pieces + weapon skills. It adds a great deal of class identity to the combat. Positioning, combos, strengths, weaknesses, animations, etc... become far more heterogeneous by class and consistent across builds. You can see a necromancer and say "okay; this is a magcro, here is how I generally engage that class" rather than "okay; this is a magcro, let's try to probe what mechanic altering items they have on so I can tailor my tactics to them"

Neglekt

Neglekt wrote: »

Limiting the skill pool...

I would also note that consequential progression is a nice change of pace. But it is marred by the fact that skill line upgrades and skyshards are purchasable in the cash shop for characters under level 50. It's a belated (and likely unintended) P2W factor in low level PvP, since it is not possible for a free account to acquire the same number of skills before hitting level 50 & being pushed out of the bracket.

Merforum

Under 50 obviously is NOT the correct criteria for PVP zones. At a minimum they should make MMR ACCOUNT WIDE. Even though high MMR is something like just doing 100 matches, at least, nobody with less than 100 matches should have to go against someone with 500+ matches. People who are already good at PVP but never done BGs would still beat newbies but at least once they hit 'high MMR' at least they couldn't just keep rolling new toons over and over to beat beginners. It would also stop the clickbait vids where someone takes a new toon into low MMR to say either their build it good or something that isn't OP IS.

They also need a way to make sure highly experienced PVPer can't farm new PVPer is IC/Cyro too. They should be Under 50 and low Alliance rank too. They could also disable inviso in newbie PVP since that is the most OP skill in PVP. Reducing the griefing would result in many more people playing PVP. I avoided PVP for 4 years because IC was so extreme when I tried it. Then when I finally tried BGs it was very fun at the beginning, until I got into high MMR and it got worse and worse until DM only ruined it completely. Hope they make some simple changes to make PVP better for people.

Nick_Balza

I like below 50 PvP because:
- No procs (craftable procs are not a big deal)
- No antiquities
- I can rely on my skill and teamwork only
- Limited skills and stats are making game more challenging
- Below 50 PvP is more dramatic (everything is clear in regular BG, when one team is hammering other teams with no effort)

On the other hand it is clear that I have unfair advantages against newbies. My 10 lvl toon able to compete with 35-49 and kill them just because I have awesome gear made by my crafter. Same as I know how weaving and mechanics work.

I think if BG will have an option to disable procs and antiquities, people will stop creating new toons for enjoying battlegrounds.

xPoisin

during event is under 50 PVP full of zergs - NBs or sorcs that farm the loot… you can saw many of them just changing/deleting the character after they reach lvl50+….
And they have full quality procs sets that they are changing after 5 levels between toons…

I knew one that is able to farm 1-2 mil AP per day with NBs just sniping and cloaking…

S0Z0H

Ya, don't call anyone "Twink" in pvp man, that's like a major insulting , it's like very derogatory slur lol.
In ESO, in the 21st century , low level but OP toons are actually known as SMURFS.

Xarc

we need account cp based for -50 pvp.
I mean, some people cp1000+ shouldnt be allowed to play in -50 against newbies.

Same thing for cyrodiil.

Susinok1

No procs in under 50 BGs? that's not true. I get hit with Dark Convergence, Plaguebreak, and all manner of setups.

CP is disabled in all BGs so your CP level does not matter at all. Having their queue base on that is not an indicator of skill. I know a person in the CP 3000s who cannot do many things and NEVER set foot in PvP.

Sparxlost

They should first reduce the jump in quality from purp to gold gear on lvl 50 gear and under
then they should reduce the amount of alliance points gained from doing battlegrounds and Cyrodiil below level 50..

GizmoMKD

i'm new to eso and i get owned in battleground... i play as sorcerer and im 29 lvl... in bgs i get 8k dmg from ferocious leap which i do max 2k dmg...

i don't know if it's me or enemies are well geared by the way im on xbox platform

Dem_kitkats1

GizmoMKD wrote: »

i'm new to eso and i get owned in battleground... i play as sorcerer and im 29 lvl... in bgs i get 8k dmg from ferocious leap which i do max 2k dmg...

i don't know if it's me or enemies are well geared by the way im on xbox platform

There's definitely a wide range in skill in lowbies. You get anywhere from brand new ESO players to players who have PvPed for years. Those who have played for years are definitely wearing better gear than most. They also have a greater knowledge of the environment and combat itself, so don't feel bad if some players seem to absolutely destroy you. There is also a gap between players just based on the skills they have access to. A level 20, who has barely any skills to chose from and a low gear score is at a significant disadvantage to level 40+ players who have access to most of their skills, and more effective gear. That is just the weird mix that is in lowbie BGs.

divnyi

Low level pvp should be <200CP pvp or something like that. Something that you can't enter once you've played past a certain point.

Necrotech_Master

divnyi wrote: »

Low level pvp should be <200CP pvp or something like that. Something that you can't enter once you've played past a certain point.

the only problem with this is that it would be an absolute ghost town

i cant imagine that many people who are sub 50 and sub cp160 to dive head first into pvp

xiphactinus

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

Low level pvp should be <200CP pvp or something like that. Something that you can't enter once you've played past a certain point.

the only problem with this is that it would be an absolute ghost town

i cant imagine that many people who are sub 50 and sub cp160 to dive head first into pvp

I did and it hurt!

xPoisin

Yup, and that is why under 50 BGs should be no proc…
If you do not have the skills at max on other toon (crafting, provisioning etc..), you are not able to face people who are fully geared with proc sets (mostly not crafted but reconstructed) and with MMR system that is not working at all…
Today I have had multiple fights in BGs where I was fighting people with 30K+ ressists, lvl3 vamp, minor and major protection (I got over 15K penetration and over 5K spell dmg and did not hit them for more than 1K hit), fully geared in reconstructed plaguebreak and pariah(or other proc sets) with markyn ring (I know cause I kindly asked them to share an info about build )…

divnyi

@xPoisin yeah let new players wonder why their sets don't work
As if experienced players won't find the way to stack most effective stat-based builds.

Rittings

Jierdanit wrote: »

RevJJ wrote: »

Below 50 BGs used to be a fun way to level up a toon. Now it’s just a way for sweaty rerollers to farm new players.

Reconstruction, sticker book and curated drops have turned it into that.

Below 50 BGs should not allow reconstructed gear.

You absolutely do not need reconstructed gear to farm new players in below 50 BGs.
And they already were used for that purpose for a long time before reconstruction ever existed.

I have to say... I do under 50 bgs to get my assault and support up ready in time for my toons to hit CP... and actually, reconstructed gear is absolutely the BEST way to move forward (if you have full sticker books).

I'll explain... I'm on my healer in a BG... I need some gear.... I can reconstruct Spell Power Cure and Robes of Transmuatation to my level at blue value... and since I'm maxed on both these sets, I get them for 25 transmutes per piece... and bonus, I can deconstruct them for FULL transmute return 4 levels down the line and reconstruct them to my new level... it's basically free gear crafting ... which I applaud to be honest. But it does take the back work of filling your sticker book in the first place (which if you're focussing one or two sets, isn't that hard to do).