Overland Content Feedback Thread

Morvan

I very much support a more difficult overland experience, as a veteran player, doing quests and overland content in general sometimes turn into a major turn off, even immersion wise.

I still remember when I started playing and was completely lost, the enemies felt somewhat menacing, because I could actually die fighting them, and that felt GOOD, but after getting somewhat decent, any overland, world boss and especially story quest enemies/bosses are so easy to solo that it completely throws off the window how they're supposed to be "world ending threats."

I feel like me and many other veteran players deserve to have the same experience as newer players, we want to have a more engaging combat while questing, I don't want to fight a Daedric Prince and completely melt them a few seconds in the fight.

The fact that the endgame community is a "minority" doesn't make us any less important at all, if anything this means changes are needed to make our numbers grow, a loyal veteran community is the main foundation of any MMORPG, if you value their feedback you'll add to the game's health and lifespan immensely.

In my opinion if a hardcore overland zone turn into a thing, it shouldn't have a difficulty slider, but if it does, at least tie exclusive rewards accordingly, there is no point in doing difficult content if the rewards are not worth it.

If ESO had a good reward system tied to difficult content, you'd magically see a good portion of the casual playerbase actually investing in more time learning and exploring different aspects of the game.

DeathStalker

Morvan wrote: »

If ESO had a good reward system tied to difficult content, you'd magically see a good portion of the casual playerbase actually investing in more time learning and exploring different aspects of the game.

No, you would not.

Clarify:
If that were true, then more people would do trials to get the best gear in the game.

Casimirus

Morvan wrote: »

I very much support a more difficult overland experience, as a veteran player, doing quests and overland content in general sometimes turn into a major turn off, even immersion wise.

I still remember when I started playing and was completely lost, the enemies felt somewhat menacing, because I could actually die fighting them, and that felt GOOD, but after getting somewhat decent, any overland, world boss and especially story quest enemies/bosses are so easy to solo that it completely throws off the window how they're supposed to be "world ending threats."

I feel like me and many other veteran players deserve to have the same experience as newer players, we want to have a more engaging combat while questing, I don't want to fight a Daedric Prince and completely melt them a few seconds in the fight.

The fact that the endgame community is a "minority" doesn't make us any less important at all, if anything this means changes are needed to make our numbers grow, a loyal veteran community is the main foundation of any MMORPG, if you value their feedback you'll add to the game's health and lifespan immensely.

In my opinion if a hardcore overland zone turn into a thing, it shouldn't have a difficulty slider, but if it does, at least tie exclusive rewards accordingly, there is no point in doing difficult content if the rewards are not worth it.

If ESO had a good reward system tied to difficult content, you'd magically see a good portion of the casual playerbase actually investing in more time learning and exploring different aspects of the game.

+100000000000000000

SilverBride

Morvan wrote: »

In my opinion if a hardcore overland zone turn into a thing, it shouldn't have a difficulty slider, but if it does, at least tie exclusive rewards accordingly, there is no point in doing difficult content if the rewards are not worth it.

If ESO had a good reward system tied to difficult content, you'd magically see a good portion of the casual playerbase actually investing in more time learning and exploring different aspects of the game.

Throughout this thread we have been told that immersion and challenge were the rewards.

"Casuals" aren't the only ones not wanting increased difficulty. I enjoy a challenge and do veteran content, too. But I also enjoy a relaxing story experience and the thought of better rewards for overland will not make me want to give up my relaxing story time.

Morvan

DeathStalker wrote: »

No, you would not.

Clarify:
If that were true, then more people would do trials to get the best gear in the game.

When I say reward, I'm talking about actual non tradeable cosmetic rewards, which trials completely lack, the fact that trials don't have a good cosmetic reward system, makes the chase for good gear worthless for those people.

Why would they grind gear for? When all the good cosmetics are not in that content.

Blackbird_V

CoolBlast3 wrote: »

Thanks for the overland difficulty ZOS, plenty of us have been asking for it for a long while!
Having said that, I don't think sharding overland between "normal" and "vet" to keep everyone as happy as possible would be a bad idea either!

I'd much prefer the instanced versions of normal and vet, much like raids and dungeons. Give me my 12m HP boss mobs and quest bosses that punish heavily for ignoring or failing mechanics.

Make Doshia cancer great again!

DeathStalker

Morvan wrote: »

DeathStalker wrote: »

No, you would not.

Clarify:
If that were true, then more people would do trials to get the best gear in the game.

When I say reward, I'm talking about actual non tradeable cosmetic rewards, which trials completely lack, the fact that trials don't have a good cosmetic reward system, makes the chase for good gear worthless for those people.

Why would they grind gear for? When all the good cosmetics are not in that content.

My answer remains the same, no you would not see an influx of people into harder content.

If you truly think otherwise then you will be in for a rude awakening if they give you what you want and what you expect doesn't happen.

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

After removing some unnecessary back and forth from this thread, we would like everyone to keep posts on the subject at hand, civil, and constructive. If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding.

RomanRex

making old content harder while not introducing new content or rewards seems like a lazy way to drive up play time.

as the population continues to decline this only serves to extract more in-game hours from activities that can be done alone.

colossalvoids

I won't be guessing or wishing here but surely would hope that whatever is being cooked would make me enjoy the story content again, with the gameplay matching the narrative and overall setup.

Morvan

SilverBride wrote: »

Throughout this thread we have been told that immersion and challenge were the rewards.

"Casuals" aren't the only ones not wanting increased difficulty. I enjoy a challenge and do veteran content, too. But I also enjoy a relaxing story experience and the thought of better rewards for overland will not make me want to give up my relaxing story time.

There is a gray zone between "easy" and "difficult" content, for the most part the great majority of veteran dungeons in the game are nowadays pretty easy, even on HM, especially when you have classes like arcanist who gives access to pretty decent damage with barely no effort, even on the hands of a newer player.

ESO has so much content, just because some people don't want to do hard content it doesn't mean the game doesn't have a place for it, from all the zones this game has, what is the problem of having at least ONE hardcore zone? Why does every bit of content must please casual gameplay?

Let us have at least one win, for gods sake.

Muizer

mocap wrote: »

Increasing the difficulty of standard overworld combat

Well, it looks like this thread can be closed. All those who wanted to make overland more challenging, you've somehow got it.

I suppose I cannot expect newcomers to read the entire 246 pages worth of discussion, but anyone who did would find it's much more about how a call for more difficulty could be addressed and also how it should not. Brief summary.

Suggested:
1) a custom modifier (slider) for incoming and outgoing damage
Pro: does not affect other players
Con: limits devs in ways to increase the challenge

2) separate normal and veteran instances
Pro: gives devs freedom in ways to increase the challenge
Con: splits the player base

3) inserting optional player-targeted dynamic events
Pro: Revitalizes existing zones, gives devs freedom in ways to increase difficulty
Pro/Con: Does not directly impact existing content.

Rejected:
1) Non-optional difficulty increases in content that is required to complete zone stories
Con: lacks flexibility. Just moves the difficulty 'sweet spot' from one subset of players to another without serving the rest
Con: could shut casual players out of the game

2) Instanced content with a higher difficulty as an alternative to overland.
Con: Most here who want more difficulty to enhance the exploration and questing experience. There already is enough high difficulty content. One more format doesn't add much.

I think that about covers it. If not I'm sure the long term regulars of the thread will correct me.

Morvan

DeathStalker wrote: »

My answer remains the same, no you would not see an influx of people into harder content.

If you truly think otherwise then you will be in for a rude awakening if they give you what you want and what you expect doesn't happen.

Well, then I'm all ears to understand why ESO especifically wouldn't have a chase for good cosmetics rewards when literally every other MMORPG that have it works just fine.

Even for new motifs I always see a great influx of players grinding the hell out of it, being overland or latest dungeons, and motifs are by all means not an unique kind of reward, as you can trade them.

So yeah, if ESO hardcore achievements would give you something more interesting than a title most of the time, you'd definitely have a response for that, that's observable on rare occasions in ESO itself and any other MMORPG for that matter.

DeathStalker

Morvan wrote: »

DeathStalker wrote: »

My answer remains the same, no you would not see an influx of people into harder content.

If you truly think otherwise then you will be in for a rude awakening if they give you what you want and what you expect doesn't happen.

Well, then I'm all ears to understand why ESO especifically wouldn't have a chase for good cosmetics rewards when literally every other MMORPG that have it works just fine.

Even for new motifs I always see a great influx of players grinding the hell out of it, being overland or latest dungeons, and motifs are by all means not an unique kind of reward, as you can trade them.

So yeah, if ESO hardcore achievements would give you something more interesting than a title most of the time, you'd definitely have a response for that, that's observable on rare occasions in ESO itself and any other MMORPG for that matter.

For starters, there are a lot of people like me who play for the great story. While a great story is only 1 of the reasons I play, it's an important one. I want a relaxing. engaging fun time while I play not to be stressed out. Most good rewards are purchased or in difficult content right now anyway. So adding in other cosmetics to more difficult overland content won't change much. Most casuals won't do harder content period, regardless of the reward.

Ardaghion

Kyip wrote: »

So we should note that we haven't announced what overland changes are yet. We'll have more information to share next year. We wanted to just note that there will be changes to overland difficulty generally. What form that takes will be shared next year.

@ZOS_Kevin

Increasing the difficulty of standard overworld combat

This will be the worst possible change the devs could possibly make. This game already has lots of challenging content for the people who want it. I cannot express strong enough how much this would make the game worse. Please leave this alone for all the people who enjoy it. Most of us like the ease of solo gameplay in overland zones.

I'm probably way below the average player in DPS stats, I'm lucky if I can maintain 9000 for more than a few minutes on a dummy. That said, it wasn't that long ago that I found I could solo dolmens and world bosses in most of the base game. The DLC and newer chapters are entirely different, I had a tough time surviving even with other players doing harrowstorms, abyssal geysers, and world bosses in these zones. I would love to continue killing dragons but with so few doing them that content is out of my reach, unless I find a guild that likes doing them on a regular basis.

I'm hoping that in the base game is where they will want to increase the difficulty, not too much though. I don't feel the chapters need to have the overland increased.

Frooke

I recorded a video to show how difficult overlanding is, and it's serious. I can't understand who is having any kind of difficulty. Watch the video and draw your own conclusions

https://youtu.be/DWtW1BP6qqM

Morvan

DeathStalker wrote: »

For starters, there are a lot of people like me who play for the great story. While a great story is only 1 of the reasons I play, it's an important one. I want a relaxing. engaging fun time while I play not to be stressed out. Most good rewards are purchased or in difficult content right now anyway. So adding in other cosmetics to more difficult overland content won't change much. Most casuals won't do harder content period, regardless of the reward.

That's the thing, the endgamers are such a minority in this game not because people don't like doing hard content, but because of the lack of hard content and rewards tied to it, you guys are the majority because 99% of the game is designed for that type of gameplay.

Most of this game is already super casual friendly, I have nothing against that, I also like to chill and enjoy a story sometimes, but we can't be egoistical and think this is what the game must be everywhere.

With a hard overland zone you'd still be able to chill and do your quests just fine, the only difference is that monsters won't get hit killed and actually represent a menace, there are literally zero zones in the game with difficult overland content, it would be an unique addition to the game.

We deserve to have fun with challenging content, too.

colossalvoids

Arguing that rewards aren't making people to chase them is kind of wild. Whole gaming scene was wrong all along, rewarding gameplay is a lie.

Even in context of ESO when crown store was tame and rewards were rarer it was the main reason many of us migrated to veteran and tried it out, from doing sparse questing to trifectas. Just from simple things like to cover vampirism with vmol skin initially leading people into content they had no idea is enjoyable for them.

Though in a context of overland it all depends on how it's implemented, I don't see many things that would require any exceptional treats but experience to match the current gameplay hourly gain, but we do not know what the solution(s) are in progress to have an idea.

FabresFour

Frooke wrote: »

I recorded a video to show how difficult overlanding is, and it's serious. I can't understand who is having any kind of difficulty. Watch the video and draw your own conclusions

https://youtu.be/DWtW1BP6qqM

LOL, [snip] LOL

[edited for profanity bypass]

TwiceBornStar

Spoiler alert! You're not meant to ignore everything. You're not meant to skip everything. You're meant to play the game and deal with the content however it presents itself to you at any given moment. You're also meant to play this game with others. That's why it's an Online game, and not a Single Player game.

..and since it's an online game you're meant to play with others you'd think Group Events wouldn't be so easy for a single player. Or World-Bosses, or mini-bosses. Or even mobs. It would be very nice if in overland, you'd get a sense of danger while foraging the wilds on your own. It would be very nice if people actually needed a Healer or a Tank.

I mean, most Dungeons on Normal you can run without Tank or Healer, so there's less and less incentive for people to play a Healer or a Tank if the only content they're good for is Veteran content. Because spoiler alert! Not everyone likes Veteran content.

The more I'm going to be in need of a Tank or a Healer to complete certain dailies, the more exciting the world will feel to me while traversing it. I want to feel worried when I see a ''powerful'' opponent. Especially at the end of a story arc where I'm supposed to beat the bad-ass of the story. I don't want him/her/it to drop dead before he/she/it even finished his/her/its first sentence. I mean, come on!

Give me a challenge?

DeathStalker

Morvan wrote: »

DeathStalker wrote: »

For starters, there are a lot of people like me who play for the great story. While a great story is only 1 of the reasons I play, it's an important one. I want a relaxing. engaging fun time while I play not to be stressed out. Most good rewards are purchased or in difficult content right now anyway. So adding in other cosmetics to more difficult overland content won't change much. Most casuals won't do harder content period, regardless of the reward.

That's the thing, the endgamers are such a minority in this game not because people don't like doing hard content, but because of the lack of hard content and rewards tied to it, you guys are the majority because 99% of the game is designed for that type of gameplay.

Most of this game is already super casual friendly, I have nothing against that, I also like to chill and enjoy a story sometimes, but we can't be egoistical and think this is what the game must be everywhere.

With a hard overland zone you'd still be able to chill and do your quests just fine, the only difference is that monsters won't get hit killed and actually represent a menace, there are literally zero zones in the game with difficult overland content, it would be an unique addition to the game.

We deserve to have fun with challenging content, too.

Then why don't you go solo a dragon or any of the other DLC content that is more difficult than base game overland content? Seriously, the DLC zones mostly sit empty even though in most, especially the more recent ones the content is harder for people like you to have a challenge. but the zones sit empty. why make everything harder for everyone, when the people asking for harder content won't do the harder content in the game already like dragons?

Morvan

Frooke wrote: »

I recorded a video to show how difficult overlanding is, and it's serious. I can't understand who is having any kind of difficulty. Watch the video and draw your own conclusions

https://youtu.be/DWtW1BP6qqM

Honestly, they could make overland 10x more difficult and it would still be extremely easy. LMFAO

Morvan

DeathStalker wrote: »

Then why don't you go solo a dragon or any of the other DLC content that is more difficult than base game overland content? Seriously, the DLC zones mostly sit empty even though in most, especially the more recent ones the content is harder for people like you to have a challenge. but the zones sit empty. why make everything harder for everyone, when the people asking for harder content won't do the harder content in the game already like dragons?

Because challenge needs incentive to be relevant, not even dragon rheum is much expensive nowadays to be worth it, hence why you don't see as much people farming them anymore.

It's not just about how hard a content is, it's about the feeling to get through something difficult and be rewarded for it.

And honestly, I wouldn't consider dragons a challenge to solo either, even on a standard DPS build, all you need is pale order or a heal slotted to solo them just fine. But that is irrelevant since they're in a open zone with players that can help you out.

SilverBride

TwiceBornStar wrote: »

You're also meant to play this game with others. That's why it's an Online game, and not a Single Player game.

All MMO means is that there are multiple players in the game world at the same time. It does not mean that we have to constantly group with others.

MMOs have content meant for groups but they also have content that can be played solo. I don't know anyone that wants to have to group for every single thing they do in game.

DeathStalker

Morvan wrote: »

DeathStalker wrote: »

Then why don't you go solo a dragon or any of the other DLC content that is more difficult than base game overland content? Seriously, the DLC zones mostly sit empty even though in most, especially the more recent ones the content is harder for people like you to have a challenge. but the zones sit empty. why make everything harder for everyone, when the people asking for harder content won't do the harder content in the game already like dragons?

Because challenge needs incentive to be relevant, not even dragon rheum is much expensive nowadays to be worth it, hence why you don't see as much people farming them anymore.

It's not just about how hard a content is, it's about the feeling to get through something difficult and be rewarded for it.

And honestly, I wouldn't consider dragons a challenge to solo either, even on a standard DPS build, all you need is pale order or a heal slotted to solo them just fine. But that is irrelevant since they're in a open zone with players that can help you out.

Serious question then. Why not ask for better rewards for the harder content in-game already instead of ruining all the content for casuals like me by making everything harder?

OtarTheMad

Morvan wrote: »

DeathStalker wrote: »

For starters, there are a lot of people like me who play for the great story. While a great story is only 1 of the reasons I play, it's an important one. I want a relaxing. engaging fun time while I play not to be stressed out. Most good rewards are purchased or in difficult content right now anyway. So adding in other cosmetics to more difficult overland content won't change much. Most casuals won't do harder content period, regardless of the reward.

That's the thing, the endgamers are such a minority in this game not because people don't like doing hard content, but because of the lack of hard content and rewards tied to it, you guys are the majority because 99% of the game is designed for that type of gameplay.

Most of this game is already super casual friendly, I have nothing against that, I also like to chill and enjoy a story sometimes, but we can't be egoistical and think this is what the game must be everywhere.

With a hard overland zone you'd still be able to chill and do your quests just fine, the only difference is that monsters won't get hit killed and actually represent a menace, there are literally zero zones in the game with difficult overland content, it would be an unique addition to the game.

We deserve to have fun with challenging content, too.

Difficult overland should be an option, or another instance that players can port into because while players who seek that, and sometimes even I do, there are some who don't. We already had difficult overland content with old Craglorn and the way old Veteran zones were done. They were forced group content and it did not go over well. The zones were fairly empty, except the groups grinding levels. You couldn't even do quest bosses because they needed 2-3 people to do and it was hard to find help because you had to be at the same point in the quest. Basically, as an example, to me it felt like old public dungeons were the same as current dungeons are on Vet. So you can only imagine what normal and vet dungeons were like.

If they did something like current Craglorn, that wouldn't be bad. If they go back to Adventure Zones I think a lot of people will just bail and play other stuff.

SilverBride

Frooke wrote: »

I recorded a video to show how difficult overlanding is, and it's serious. I can't understand who is having any kind of difficulty.

It's not that easy for everyone. Some players have difficulty for a variety of reasons and they should be able to play, too.

I personally find easily killing overland mobs satisfying because I can feel like the strong hero I'm being told that I am.

Integral1900

The game was hard at the start, much harder, so much so that you would think twice before engaging a group of three enemy mobs. None of the modern power creep, none of the addons or guides. It didn’t make the game more popular, it killed it. Many players like me coming from single games like Skyrim run into what felt like an absolute wall. So much so that I walked away from this game for a year or more I only came back for the one Tamriel thing.

The content does need to be harder, there is no argument there. But there must be some means of controlling it. It must be possible for people who simply cannot compete at the level of a game such as dark souls to comfortably do all the stories. I am not here because I like fighting bosses, the boss is just the finale at the end of the story. I am here for the story and the world and to share it with other people. Turning every boxing counter into a headbanging session is going to put off a large portion of your play base. don’t believe me? Go to any open world zone you like and start walking. I guarantee you will see people who are struggling to deal with basic mobs. I used to offer assistance but now I keep my mouth shut. This is generally because by the time Help arrives, frustrated players are generally so angry they are having trouble thinking in straight lines

SilverBride

Morvan wrote: »

ESO has so much content, just because some people don't want to do hard content it doesn't mean the game doesn't have a place for it, from all the zones this game has, what is the problem of having at least ONE hardcore zone? Why does every bit of content must please casual gameplay?

Let us have at least one win, for gods sake.

Every single combat related content except overland is challenging content. All of it. And they are not just talking about one new zone. They are saying "Increasing the difficulty of standard overworld combat" which could mean everything.

Overland is the last bit of causal combat related content we have and we don't want that taken away from us.

Credible_Joe

SilverBride wrote: »

All MMO means is that there are multiple players in the game world at the same time. It does not mean that we have to constantly group with others.

MMOs have content meant for groups but they also have content that can be played solo. I don't know anyone that wants to have to group for every single thing they do in game.

You have literally argued the exact opposite of this sentiment when I lobbied for instanced delves, public dungeons, and quest combat interiors: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8121537/#Comment_8121537

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't find it a major problem. I expect to run into other players in an MMO.

I think we should just agree to disagree at this point.