Why do I feel like I MUST sacrifice stats on Stamblade, while playing Stamsorc makes me feel free?

NylAR

Disclaimer: This is NOT a Stamblade hate thread, I'm just comparing these 2 specs/classes because I'm extremely baffled by the difference I've experienced over the course of the last 8 days. This is also strictly from a BG perspective as I don't do cyrodill or IC at all.

Basically playing a Stamblade i have to constantly micromanage my stats and attributes and put a ton more effort into gameplay to be able to perform effectively and well. Make one small mistake managing stats and you'll either never kill anyone, or you'll just die way too quick to any half-brained player with a grain of experience.

Burst (while very strong) is easily avoidable and predictable especially when playing against the same opponents.
Virtually no heals (yeh we got cloak and image to compensate this but you still can't play in a group setting at all cause AOEs and too squishy).
We have to sacrifice stats for sustain, we have to actually go for speed to last longer on a battlefield (yet another stat sacrifice).

We can gank like pros but honestly that kind of gameplay is toxic as best and only turns players away from PVP if anything, especially new ones (I haven't stepped into PvP for literaly years because of NBs and their ganking). We have to constantly watch for our surroundings, pick our targets, and think of our positioning.

While playing a Stamsorc I feel completely free to pick my skills and everything seems to be built in - sustain? Already got that. Heals? Passively built in from crit and can run the same as Stablade, Defenses? Oh boy did you hear about streak? Did you know it has a built in stun that cannto be avoided? Burst? Crystal weapon and a couple procs and you'll be in heaven.

There are some things like positioning too that a stamsorc has to focus on, but explain to me dearly, why I can last 10x longer and kill 10x faster on a Stamsorc and catch anybody without a problem. While on the same setup I get like 4:11:2 K/D/A ration on my Stamblade, I easily get 15-20/0-2/10-15 K/D/A on my Stamsorc. That's mindblowing. I literally thought I just sucked horribly but now I'm on even grounds.

Class skill choice is another pain on Stamblade - i need to carefully choose and sacrifice certain skills in order to be effective - did you know lots of us run without execute just to be able to play with more versatility? If i want to get more sustain to compensate for extra stats i have to switch around and lose on something else. If i wanna be more of a brawler - i have to again sacrifice skills that could secure a kill. I don't have this feeling of restraint on Stamsorc.

I mean I'm a 100% fresh PvP player and only playing BGs, so my views might be extremely skewed, but just switching (using the same gear and race btw) to a stamsorc has made my experience a 100 times more enjoyable because I can simply pick whatever I want and need.

It just feels extremely unfair, and I can't help but feel personally insulted by this becuase I went and made a huge mistake of creating a NB as my main several years ago, but now cannot compete and enjoy it the same as I do on a stamsorc (Class change token anyone?).

What are your thoughts on this?
[moved to battleground section of the forums]

Alucardo

The problem isn't the class. People think of nightblades as these ganking machines (which they kind of are), so they are generally incredibly squishy and die in 1-2 hits. But they're so much more versatile than that. I can go back to my OG S+B weaving because of surprise attack. I can build to be bulky and use dark cloak as a second heal. You're also able to obtain the most health out of all the classes. With leeching strikes sustain is a non-issue, and if built right, you have more healing than a stam sorc can dream of with dark cloak + vigor, which also grants minor protection and your major resolve buff.
Try different play styles and builds, and you might just get more out of your nightblade. Personally, while I enjoy stam sorc, it's a bit of a one trick pony. But with NBs naturally high damage and abilities, it gives you a lot more flexibility than just being a ganker.

hundergrn

Throughout the years, the NB has suffered many many nerfs, losses to identity, glitchy buggy toolsets due to its stealth/burst playstyle. Gutted over and over again only to remain the ire of all those who come across those that can make it work.

People like a fighting chance... or the illusion of one. Is it really a fighting chance if you walk up to a stamsorc and they streak, ele wep, imbue, crystal frag, dark deal you into a stunned stupor of ragged bits on the floor? A fighting chance if you are javalined, jesus beamed, jabby jab, swept into mush? Stomp stun, breath resist melt, locked in place, bashed like a stone statue? Denied by personal zerg of pets and proc demora? Bone blasted, self synergized, pocket healing, necro smashed?

The difference between these and the 'toxic' stealth/burst 'gank' style of NB is visibility. A NB has to pay attention to much to be effective, they do not get all the comforts other classes usually do... and that makes them prime for peoples bane. Why? Because, regardless of all the bells and whistles that go off anytime they try to burst, the travel time of their ranged abilities, the ease of avoidance and countermeasure to their buggy glitchy tool kit... people don't pay attention to what they cant see. If they can't see some toon coming up like some frat boi 'come at me bro' idiocy of bravery/honor it is immediately cowardly, toxic, deserving of nerf.

A NB skill set can be easily abused and used for trolling, toxic, opportunistic behavior by targeting spawns, quest points, etc. Yes, easily. That is on the player using it and is not healthy for newer players. Neither is getting yourself bodied repeatedly by other classes using similar surprise mechanics with a much better efficiency. The only difference is stealth and how it is viewed as an easy 'free' reset in fights.

TLDR: Due to a NB playstyle, it has been nerfed repeatedly in the ground due to abuse of its mechanics and peoples views on its tool kit and requires a higher skill ceiling than most want to work for due to stealth mechanics that have a multitude of countermeasures for but no one wants to sacrifice part of their build to have. While classes like stamsorc provide a versatile toolkit that is heavily abused for its ease of use but isn't toxic cause they didn't tea bag you after streaking you several times while procing frags and buffing their la while you are unavoidably stunned.

NB can be fun, bursty, hard to kill, etc... just takes a bit of work unless you are going for cheese. Not for the faint of heart.

MirandaSharp

This is pretty much the same gripe I see from most players who complain about NB.... "-It's too hard to play!"
This is why I like the NB class so much. It's a class that requires skill to play effectively. It forces you to push yourself and learn to balance gear and skill combos in optimal ways.

NB has tons of built in heals, like Leeching/Siphoning Strikes, Grim Focus, Assassin's Scourge/Will, Reaper's Mark, Killer's Blade, Dark Cloak, Soul Tether, Funnel Health/Swallow soul etc.. Just find useful skill combos where you can weave these in to get the heals you need. With good combos, you can do both huge damage while automatically healing.

My tip is to just struggle with it til you find what works for you and your NB will be great!

NylAR

Alucardo wrote: »

The problem isn't the class. People think of nightblades as these ganking machines (which they kind of are), so they are generally incredibly squishy and die in 1-2 hits. But they're so much more versatile than that. I can go back to my OG S+B weaving because of surprise attack. I can build to be bulky and use dark cloak as a second heal. You're also able to obtain the most health out of all the classes. With leeching strikes sustain is a non-issue, and if built right, you have more healing than a stam sorc can dream of with dark cloak + vigor, which also grants minor protection and your major resolve buff.
Try different play styles and builds, and you might just get more out of your nightblade. Personally, while I enjoy stam sorc, it's a bit of a one trick pony. But with NBs naturally high damage and abilities, it gives you a lot more flexibility than just being a ganker.

Can you please advise me as a new player how to properly build a stamblade and what to focus on, which stats to keep how high, how much sustain do i need and what my attributes should look like? Cause I really and I mean REALLY feel limited. To the point where PvP started giving me depression.

When you say words like "naturally high damage skills" i'm like "WHAT?!". I can barely scratch experienced people, they either outheal everything or just don't get hit enough to die, and that's even when I'm running a 2x DPS set glass canon. I'm honestly confused whenever people say things like this. Or let's say I finally get a kill but then just instatnly flop & die to a caressing breeze touching my hand. Yet on a stamsorc when I hit a good sequence of skills i can kill them just fine and still get away.

Is there like any PVP guide that has objective information on what a stamblade should generally have on their character sheet rather than just random PvP builds? I really need some objective advice rather than relative theory at this point, cause I'm totally failing to understand the fundamentals when/if experienced people like you keep telling me Stamblade is "Excellent".

@Alucardo

And yes, I know how to combo Incap + SS + Relentless. I know people dodge on our inbuilt stun and wait it out so i can still get Relentless Hit in. I even slot fear on my bars to force tanks out of block.

I play a Khajiit and use shadow mundus for crit stacking (which according to 90% of stuff I've seen on the forums is what i should do).

My stam sustain is as high as 2800+ buffed.

Weapon Damage is arround 4500-5000 semi-passive (no procs) buffed.

Everything else is relative to gear. Like I can run Aetherial + Jailbreaker, or New Moon + Stuhn etc. And stats change drastically, but I'm seeing aprox. same performance with all builds.

Using 0 mythics cause I can't really function without Balorg. (would like to)

SkaraMinoc

NylAR wrote: »

Everything else is relative to gear. Like I can run Aetherial + Jailbreaker, or New Moon + Stuhn etc

Aetherial Ascension + Dark Deal is a hidden gem. Many Sorc are afraid to use it but it's very strong. Even good on magsorc.

NylAR wrote: »

Burst (while very strong) is easily avoidable and predictable especially when playing against the same opponents

Don't be so sure.

I haven't lost 1v1 to a stamsorc in months but top NBs will kill me every time. Highest consistent burst in the game.

SkaraMinoc

Also, one of my first classes when I started was NB and also found Stamsorc more enjoyable. So I understand how you feel.

But then I tried Magsorc and haven't looked back