WrathOfInnos wrote: ».
I’m not sure what you’re getting at with the 25k resist example. Major Breach is not going to take that down to zero, so you still get mitigation from 5k resistance.
It isn't garbage, it is fine but not as op as you think it is. No one would ask to buff flare or give it a better buff, because most of us would rather use another skill anyway.
TheEndBringer wrote: »It isn't garbage, it is fine but not as op as you think it is. No one would ask to buff flare or give it a better buff, because most of us would rather use another skill anyway.
It is op. You know how I know this? Because a
If you ambush a Necro without guardian active they drop dead in three seconds. The same Necro with guardian can out last anything you throw at them because that 10% gives them plenty of time to run through their defenses.
You can keep talking about diminishing returns because it doesn't matter. If you're a 25k health DD you're GOING to notice the difference. If you're a 35k Necro tank you WILL notice a difference. I know exactly how major protection feels because I run northern storm on two wardens.
So here we are again. If it's supposedly not good and flare isn't a good reveal, then why am I not seeing anyone asking for some other benefit? Instead it's a contingent of players who really really want free major protection and/or don't understand what it will do you the game.
You're already getting a huge buff to mitigation via battle spirit. This is overkill.
TheEndBringer wrote: »So here we are. Now it's "well you know you can run armor in pots so major protection is garbage."
TheEndBringer wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: ».
I’m not sure what you’re getting at with the 25k resist example. Major Breach is not going to take that down to zero, so you still get mitigation from 5k resistance.
I never said that. What I said was even if some DD ran armor pots, which a vast majority don't because it's useless, fracture would remove the benefit of the armor pot. And once you're 20k resistance or lower you're already running a glass cannon.
TheEndBringer wrote: »I'm sure there are some people who run essence of armor but you give up a lot to do so. Now as far as the mitigation you get from 5k armor being better than 10% from Major Protection, I don't buy that for one second. You know why? Even if you're a DD @ 20 resistance so you get propped up to 25k, anyone can apply major fracture to wipe that out. You can't wipe out Major Protection. You can't cancel the buff.
WrathOfInnos wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »So here we are. Now it's "well you know you can run armor in pots so major protection is garbage."
That seems to be directed at me. Just because you put quotation marks around something doesn't mean anyone said it. There's a quote button on each post if you'd like to use it correctly. Nobody in this thread has said major protection is garbage, and I've been extremely clear in all my posts that it is balanced in this case (as in not overpowered, not underpowered).
I even took the time to use the numbers from YOUR example and demonstrate that Major Protection gave exactly the same result as 5280 resistance.TheEndBringer wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: ».
I’m not sure what you’re getting at with the 25k resist example. Major Breach is not going to take that down to zero, so you still get mitigation from 5k resistance.
I never said that. What I said was even if some DD ran armor pots, which a vast majority don't because it's useless, fracture would remove the benefit of the armor pot. And once you're 20k resistance or lower you're already running a glass cannon.
Sure you did. Here, I'll show you the quote function.TheEndBringer wrote: »I'm sure there are some people who run essence of armor but you give up a lot to do so. Now as far as the mitigation you get from 5k armor being better than 10% from Major Protection, I don't buy that for one second. You know why? Even if you're a DD @ 20 resistance so you get propped up to 25k, anyone can apply major fracture to wipe that out. You can't wipe out Major Protection. You can't cancel the buff.
You seem to think that Major Breach (I assume you mean because Major Fracture doesn't exist anymore) wouldn't affect the mitigation of the DD with 20k resistance, when in reality it would bring them down to 14k regardless of their Major Protection. You can't just arbitrarily apply different debuffs when trying to compare two different builds.
First, Necro's guardian is a whole other point because it also heals and its damage reduction isn't a major/minor buff and stacks with everything. If you believe Necro is only tanky because of his guardian then you don't know much about Necro.
Second, unlike Necro's guardian, flare's major protection is contending with consuming darkness, sleet storm, daedric trickery and pirate skeleton and maybe some other sources I forgot. The only reason some people are excited over major prot is that it is quitr uncommon not because it is powerful.
Third, if you are a tank you will never feel the difference but you will barely feel anything anyway if you are beyond 80% damage mitigation without block. And those builds existed before Flare and were probably getting their major protection somewhere else.
Finally, if you are a DD you are probably running crit and no good DD that are sane enough would use flare and mage light or expert hunter not to mention double barring flare (an idea that gives me a slight giggle everytime I think about it).
You know what? I would rather have minor berserk, heroism, mending, vitality or toughness over major protection and those are all minor buffs.
Care to explain that part, if possible? @ExistingRug61
"Additionally, in the case of eHP, adding more and more sources of mitigation actually provides more and more benefit for each subsequent mitigation ."
TheEndBringer wrote: »
This isn't true. You do notice. I notice. But the point I've made 20 times now is that I'm not worried about a tank. I'm worried about DDs becoming tanks AGAIN after we just fought to get rid of the tank DD plague.
You don't have to run light and hunter for CRIT. You get it from pots. Again I've made this point multiple times. They will forgo light and hunter because most DDs don't want or care about "hunting nightblades". They will run flare and use pots.
Then make that case to the devs and stop arguing with me, because fighting for major protection is contradicting this message that it's also not a good buff.
Again, I am not fighting for flare.I don't care what conspiracy theory you believe in. I admit that major protection is good, only time I compared it unfavourably was against other major buffs. I have also been explaining to you why buffed flare isn't the second coming you believe it is. In my playtime I think I saw pirate skellies like 3 or 4 times, not to mention that you rarely if ever hear about people running steadfast hero or immortal warrior because major protection isn't that good of a buff to dedicate a precious monster set or 5 piece bonus for.
TheEndBringer wrote: »
The reason why you don't see those being used more often is because of the sacrifice, as you states, which is the while point. Major protection has always required sacrifice to get, and one skill slot giving it passively is a huge reversal.
It's already been pointed out above mathematically just how around major protection still is.
TheEndBringer wrote: »
Again, I am not fighting for flare.I don't care what conspiracy theory you believe in. I admit that major protection is good, only time I compared it unfavourably was against other major buffs. I have also been explaining to you why buffed flare isn't the second coming you believe it is. In my playtime I think I saw pirate skellies like 3 or 4 times, not to mention that you rarely if ever hear about people running steadfast hero or immortal warrior because major protection isn't that good of a buff to dedicate a precious monster set or 5 piece bonus for.
The reason why you don't see those being used more often is because of the sacrifice, as you states, which is the while point. Major protection has always required sacrifice to get, and one skill slot giving it passively is a huge reversal.
It's already been pointed out above mathematically just how around major protection still is.
Even though mathematically, according to the posts of our versed guy here ExistingRug61, Skelly should be superior to sets like Domihaus, Zaan, Balorgh on cheap ults, etc. But that's because mathematics doesn't dictate how the meta works in pvp, and in pvp damage is superior to survivability in a lot of situations. I explained already why trading mage or hunter for flare has its costs and drawbacks. This doesn't mean that flare is the worse option, it just means it is an option with clear benefits and drawbacks, unlike what you said about it rendering mage and hunter useless.