New to Battlegrounds and PVP in ESO

aerobar104

So as a new player to ESO I tried Battlegrounds as soon as I was able to at Level 10. So what is with all the premades/twinks/and getting one shot with no hope of reply? Why is this a thing? How do new players to this game learn battlegrounds/skills without getting absolutely pummeled by these overpowered players, who in the main spam execution over and over again?

I can see how new players would avoid battlegrounds/pvp altogether after an experience like that. It's a shame because it has potential.

Marcus_Aurelius

There are no premades if you choose the solo queue. By default the group queue is selected so you have to change it.

As an advice, if you are new build for survability. Lot of resistance, lot of impen and lot of self healing.
This way you can start to undestand how things works and from there change your build to find your balance between surving and dealing damage.

aerobar104

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

There are no premades if you choose the solo queue. By default the group queue is selected so you have to change it.

As an advice, if you are new build for survability. Lot of resistance, lot of impen and lot of self healing.
This way you can start to undestand how things works and from there change your build to find your balance between surving and dealing damage.

Thanks for your reply!

Yes I see the solo queue have you tried waiting in the solo queue?

aerobar104

As an advice, if you are new build for survability. Lot of resistance, lot of impen and lot of self healing.
This way you can start to undestand how things works and from there change your build to find your balance between surving and dealing damage.

[/quote]

Thanks for the advice. I get what you are stating above. However at level 10 and being a new player should I really have to get all this gear to learn PVP? Or should I be able to go in with players of equal status to have fun and learn?

Under 50 bgs? Why am I lumped in with players that have access to better gear, better spells and are literally unkillable as a brand new player.

At this moment most MMO's don't really know how to handle new players when it comes to PVP. Perhaps GW2 does so I have heard.

Merforum

aerobar104 wrote: »

So as a new player to ESO I tried Battlegrounds as soon as I was able to at Level 10. So what is with all the premades/twinks/and getting one shot with no hope of reply? Why is this a thing? How do new players to this game learn battlegrounds/skills without getting absolutely pummeled by these overpowered players, who in the main spam execution over and over again?

I can see how new players would avoid battlegrounds/pvp altogether after an experience like that. It's a shame because it has potential.

Yes as you point out BGs is a mess. And all levels of BGs are a mess right now too because the population of players is so low. When I say low I mean it must be less than 50 people playing over and over. And as you say you would think the lowest level players should be playing together, but that also isn't reliable any more. For instance, there are some OK PVPers who are not good enough to play high MMR and win consistently so they roll a new toon and play low MMR BGs so they feel good about themselves beating up beginners. They have full gear at low level, best potions, posions whatever. There are some youtubers who do this and when they hit level 50 they delete toon and reroll another one to do it all over again, and make vids of how 'good' they are.

If you don't have skill points, don't have gear, don't have skills because it's your first level 10 toon, I recommend not wasting time in BGs, it will only bring frustration. Level up to 50 on 1 or more toons get used to playing then when you're able to play OK and have some good gear and skills you can try BGs.

Magio_

aerobar104 wrote: »

Thanks for the advice. I get what you are stating above. However at level 10 and being a new player should I really have to get all this gear to learn PVP? Or should I be able to go in with players of equal status to have fun and learn?

Under 50 bgs? Why am I lumped in with players that have access to better gear, better spells and are literally unkillable as a brand new player.

At this moment most MMO's don't really know how to handle new players when it comes to PVP. Perhaps GW2 does so I have heard.

Making Solo Queue the default queue as someone stated above would only help people that don't read.

The problem you're running into is caused by the fact that this game caters to casuals. A proper MMR system would shield casuals and new players, like yourself, from having to face off against veterans. But Devs' reasoning for not implementing it is the fact that people might get bullied for having low MMR. Yet there's people playing games like League of Legends in Iron ranking everyday.

It's a feedback loop for BGs in this game. They say there's not enough people that play BGs to implement separate queues and a proper MMR system that would shield you from your current problem. Then a lot of people like yourself never play PvP again after a terrible experience for being pitted against people with way more knowledge and better gear. So the population doesn't grow, so not enough people play to implement a real MMR system. Rinse and repeat.

aerobar104

[/quote]

Making Solo Queue the default queue as someone stated above would only help people that don't read.

The problem you're running into is caused by the fact that this game caters to casuals. A proper MMR system would shield casuals and new players, like yourself, from having to face off against veterans. But Devs' reasoning for not implementing it is the fact that people might get bullied for having low MMR. Yet there's people playing games like League of Legends in Iron ranking everyday.

It's a feedback loop for BGs in this game. They say there's not enough people that play BGs to implement separate queues and a proper MMR system that would shield you from your current problem. Then a lot of people like yourself never play PvP again after a terrible experience for being pitted against people with way more knowledge and better gear. So the population doesn't grow, so not enough people play to implement a real MMR system. Rinse and repeat.[/quote]

This exactly thanks for recognizing the challenge. I guess you've seen it all before!

aerobar104

Yes as you point out BGs is a mess. And all levels of BGs are a mess right now too because the population of players is so low. When I say low I mean it must be less than 50 people playing over and over. And as you say you would think the lowest level players should be playing together, but that also isn't reliable any more. For instance, there are some OK PVPers who are not good enough to play high MMR and win consistently so they roll a new toon and play low MMR BGs so they feel good about themselves beating up beginners. They have full gear at low level, best potions, poison's whatever. There are some youtubers who do this and when they hit level 50 they delete toon and reroll another one to do it all over again, and make vids of how 'good' they are.

If you don't have skill points, don't have gear, don't have skills because it's your first level 10 toon, I recommend not wasting time in BGs, it will only bring frustration. Level up to 50 on 1 or more toons get used to playing then when you're able to play OK and have some good gear and skills you can try BGs.[/quote]

Thanks you are absolutely right. I am beginning to realise this now ha ha.

SkaraMinoc

Hi welcome to ESO battlegrounds, the most difficult content in the game. It's also the most neglected part of ESO and you will find many quality issues including missing features, imbalance, toxic players, long queue times, etc.

You can find enjoyment playing battlegrounds but it will take some time. There is a steep learning curve and you will have to experiment with build optimization. You will get frustrated but if you stick with it then you can do quite well.

You will go 0 kills 15 deaths in the beginning until you figure out how to stay alive (health, armor/resist, using defensive skills, movement, etc). Once you know how to stay alive then focus on learning how to kill other players.

gariondavey

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Hi welcome to ESO battlegrounds, the most difficult content in the game. It's also the most neglected part of ESO and you will find many quality issues including missing features, imbalance, toxic players, long queue times, etc.

You can find enjoyment playing battlegrounds but it will take some time. There is a steep learning curve and you will have to experiment with build optimization. You will get frustrated but if you stick with it then you can do quite well.

You will go 0 kills 15 deaths in the beginning until you figure out how to stay alive (health, armor/resist, using defensive skills, movement, etc). Once you know how to stay alive then focus on learning how to kill other players.

I second this. Welcome!

Alucardo

Eventually these players will get thrown out of your MMR and you won't see them again, but BGs are a pretty popular place to grind alts, so you'll just come across more pvp vets. It's not that they're overpowered (generally they just wear crafted gear with training to level skills faster), but they already know how to survive and deal damage.

Personally I think MMR should be account wide. I've taken alts into BG before and got results like 60-0. It was like squashing ants and not fun at all (same goes for the other teams I assume). In one of my latest matches, one of the teams just stood in spawn and waited out the timer. I felt pretty bad it had ruined the experience for them so much.
At least if MMR was account wide you would rarely come across a pvp veteran because they'd be in the higher brackets from the get-go, which is how it should be imho.

aerobar104

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Hi welcome to ESO battlegrounds, the most difficult content in the game. It's also the most neglected part of ESO and you will find many quality issues including missing features, imbalance, toxic players, long queue times, etc.

You can find enjoyment playing battlegrounds but it will take some time. There is a steep learning curve and you will have to experiment with build optimization. You will get frustrated but if you stick with it then you can do quite well.

You will go 0 kills 15 deaths in the beginning until you figure out how to stay alive (health, armor/resist, using defensive skills, movement, etc). Once you know how to stay alive then focus on learning how to kill other players.

Thanks for the encouragement. Appreciated!

aerobar104

I second this. Welcome![/quote]

Thanks!

chuckythexii

So for one, don't blame other stuff it's a really bad habit that will slow your self improvement. That's true in basically any PvP game and life in general. You are only going to improve once you accept that it is your own play that is at fault, identify those faults, and correct them. No one is twinking sub 50 characters just to dominate BG with how this games leveling system works it is super inefficient to do so. You out level your gear and it is no longer effective, that said I would Q into random BG for the dailies while playing in training gear crafted multiple levels too low and still dominate because I knew what I was doing. You do not want to remove that from BG, if you never have to face challenging players when they have subpar builds and skills, you will have an even worse time when you suddenly get introduced to them at lvl 50 BG, nevermind Cyrodil.

So here is some general advice to help you improve.

Watch streamers and youtube videos, this game does a horrible job of explaining mechanics and even basic definitions. Wiki's are horribly out-dated. Knowledge of mechanics is probably the greatest advantage vets have over new players and there is basically no good way to learn it in game itself.

World bosses are good prep for PvP, they will not teach you situational awareness but can teach some mechanics. Most importantly they will teach you how to survive and manage your resources. If you can't tank and heal through a world boss you are not gonna survive against a player. Start with Non-DLC world bosses as they are easier to Solo.

Best PvP advice I ever got was from a corp mate in EVE (a game with a far nastier PvP scene) Tank before Gank, you need to survive to experience combat and learn. To survive you need to focus on defense, this means prioritizing resource regen (sustainment), healing, and armor over damage. This is both in your build and your playstyle, don't tunnel vision and go for the kill when you need to heal. Learn how to dodge roll and block effectively. Use the defending trait on weapons instead of damage.

BG specifically, learn to play as a team. Use cross heals and team buffs. If a team-mate is under pressure use a pull or CC to save them then heal. Learn positioning, running off on your own you won't survive no matter how much gold crap you've got on. Fighting in a bad position like between the two opposing teams or next to their spawn makes a big difference. Teamplay and positioning are both more important than gear/build. A player with mediocre gear and build that can stay alive and do moderate damage to a focused target is worth far more than a dead glass cannon or a selfish ganker. When in doubt stay by your team.

Do not focus on Gear, and keep your build simple. Gear does not actually make that big a difference despite the fact that its all anyone can talk about on the forums. Build simple, a simple easy to use skill bar is worth far more than a complex min-maxer rotation that becomes worthless the moment someone roll dodges your carefully crafted combo or ccs you in the middle of it.

SkaraMinoc

chuckythexii wrote: »

World bosses are good prep for PvP, they will not teach you situational awareness but can teach some mechanics. Most importantly they will teach you how to survive and manage your resources. If you can't tank and heal through a world boss you are not gonna survive against a player. Start with Non-DLC world bosses as they are easier to Solo.

100% this.

When I started PvP the first thing I did was make sure I could solo Bittergreen the Wild guar world boss in Deshaan without moving. No dodge roll. No avoiding the aoe. It's an accurate representation of the burst damage you will take in battlegrounds.



If you can't solo that boss in your BG build (no Pale Order ring) then you will have issues.

Alucardo

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

chuckythexii wrote: »

World bosses are good prep for PvP, they will not teach you situational awareness but can teach some mechanics. Most importantly they will teach you how to survive and manage your resources. If you can't tank and heal through a world boss you are not gonna survive against a player. Start with Non-DLC world bosses as they are easier to Solo.

100% this.

When I started PvP the first thing I did was make sure I could solo Bittergreen the Wild guar world boss in Deshaan without moving. No dodge roll. No avoiding the aoe. It's an accurate representation of the burst damage you will take in battlegrounds.



If you can't solo that boss in your BG build (no Pale Order ring) then you will have issues.

I wouldn't say it's very accurate. Your healing and damage shields are reduced by a whopping 50% in PvP zones, so unless you can heal debuff yourself by half then you're not going to know what it's like to fight and heal against another player fighting a world boss..

Icy_Nelyan

I litterally level all my Toons in solo queue bgs, I only use items dropped from bgs or some overland I do in the meantime for a BG queue call.

Starting at level 10 even without an heal (if stamina and with a class without stamina heals) Is hard, 9 bgs out of 10 I get pulverized if I don't pay attention to 2 things:
1) stay with my team,
2) start fights where at most I'm against One enemy and no more if I'm alone.

Starting at around level 25 (or maybe 20 if You can get some Cool skills to heal and Attack) everything Will drastically change: the fights becomes "doable", You Will have more chances to win in fights and more te to fights because You Will not get instant killed, You Will have more resources sustain and more resistances overall (thanks to healing, full green gear and possibily around 4 or 5 items of the same set, more health, more armor and Spell res), Better offensive stats with way more Better skills.

At First BG are frustrating, but starting at 10 means in a couple of hours joining BG You are 20/25 and thanks to BG exp Your skills grows in Power and morphs and Also skill Lines You are using, meaning more available skills.

Be patient till 20 doing BG and everything Will change or reach 20 normally and with some Gear and skills join them but Remember 3 main rules which are evergreen:
1) healing spells are your best friend ever, do not forgot them never, if You have no heals You are dead, point,
2) stay with your team helping them, BG are a squad based game, solo players not so often are able to Carry the match,
3) if You are solo or You want to aproach some fight by yourself, Remember there Is a God above US but Is not You, so be carefull and fight only 1v1 and if Needed get away from the fight to reset or Just to stay alive; if You are Xv1 and the 1 Is You use your defensive skills, LOS as much as possibile, Dodge Roll yo escape some big damage or to get far enough from Dangerous aoe, search for your team and use your healing skills, attaccking isn't Always the best defense, and if at the end You die at least You have them some hard time in Killing You wasting their resources and possibily ultimates.

Good luck and enjoy

SkaraMinoc

Alucardo wrote: »

I wouldn't say it's very accurate. Your healing and damage shields are reduced by a whopping 50% in PvP zones, so unless you can heal debuff yourself by half then you're not going to know what it's like to fight and heal against another player fighting a world boss..

You're right it's not exactly accurate but you take a ton of damage. I still think it's a good measure on how well you can survive in PvP. At least for my builds. Maybe other people have different ways of determining if their build and skill is good enough to stay alive in PvP. The guar boss works for me.

chuckythexii

Alucardo wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

chuckythexii wrote: »

World bosses are good prep for PvP, they will not teach you situational awareness but can teach some mechanics. Most importantly they will teach you how to survive and manage your resources. If you can't tank and heal through a world boss you are not gonna survive against a player. Start with Non-DLC world bosses as they are easier to Solo.

100% this.

When I started PvP the first thing I did was make sure I could solo Bittergreen the Wild guar world boss in Deshaan without moving. No dodge roll. No avoiding the aoe. It's an accurate representation of the burst damage you will take in battlegrounds.



If you can't solo that boss in your BG build (no Pale Order ring) then you will have issues.

I wouldn't say it's very accurate. Your healing and damage shields are reduced by a whopping 50% in PvP zones, so unless you can heal debuff yourself by half then you're not going to know what it's like to fight and heal against another player fighting a world boss..

damage is also reduced by half so thats a wash. Anyway its not about being exactly like a player since it never will be. It is about pushing yourself as hard as you can in solo practice where you need to manage your resources and heal yourself instead of relying on tanks to take aggro and healers.

And Frankly I find world bosses to be much tougher opponents than lots of the players I meet in BG.

SkaraMinoc

chuckythexii wrote: »

damage is also reduced by half so thats a wash. Anyway its not about being exactly like a player since it never will be. It is about pushing yourself as hard as you can in solo practice where you need to manage your resources and heal yourself instead of relying on tanks to take aggro and healers.

And Frankly I find world bosses to be much tougher opponents than lots of the players I meet in BG.

Yes, thank you. This is what I was trying to describe. It's good practice but not a real reflection of PvP.

Wandering_Immigrant

aerobar104 wrote: »

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

There are no premades if you choose the solo queue. By default the group queue is selected so you have to change it.

As an advice, if you are new build for survability. Lot of resistance, lot of impen and lot of self healing.
This way you can start to undestand how things works and from there change your build to find your balance between surving and dealing damage.

Thanks for your reply!

Yes I see the solo queue have you tried waiting in the solo queue?

You can queue for both simultaneously. That's how I always queue. This way if you get group so be it, but it gives you a chance at solo without the long queue.

ImSoPro

aerobar104 wrote: »

As an advice, if you are new build for survability. Lot of resistance, lot of impen and lot of self healing.
This way you can start to undestand how things works and from there change your build to find your balance between surving and dealing damage.

Thanks for the advice. I get what you are stating above. However at level 10 and being a new player should I really have to get all this gear to learn PVP? Or should I be able to go in with players of equal status to have fun and learn?

Under 50 bgs? Why am I lumped in with players that have access to better gear, better spells and are literally unkillable as a brand new player.

At this moment most MMO's don't really know how to handle new players when it comes to PVP. Perhaps GW2 does so I have heard.
[/quote]

They only have better gear because they waste time farming it. I don’t see a point in ever farming gear you’ll outgrow in 4 levels. When I used to do it I’d often come out of dungeons after farming 1-2 levels past the gear I already had on. Sometimes once I got full sets I’d be 3 levels past the 1st parts of the gear set I was farming. It’s a waste of time. You could also save gear from previous low level rooms but that’s a waste of precious bank space.

divnyi

aerobar104 wrote: »

Thanks for the advice. I get what you are stating above. However at level 10 and being a new player should I really have to get all this gear to learn PVP? Or should I be able to go in with players of equal status to have fun and learn?

Under 50 bgs? Why am I lumped in with players that have access to better gear, better spells and are literally unkillable as a brand new player.

At this moment most MMO's don't really know how to handle new players when it comes to PVP. Perhaps GW2 does so I have heard.

Join some guild and ask them to craft some low-level gear. It is basically free because low level materials are useless at higher level, so the only resource here is time spent for the character with traits researched. Update that gear after 10-20 levels, because it will lose stats as you progress higher.

Alucardo

chuckythexii wrote: »

And Frankly I find world bosses to be much tougher opponents than lots of the players I meet in BG.

Depends on your MMR, and we're also talking about someone that is new to BGs and pvp, so no opponents are going to be easy, I'm sure.
I'm not saying world bosses are a BAD idea, but they have static rotations which can be learnt and then beaten easier with each run. Players don't think like scripted monsters, so you need to always be on your toes. It's just a very different encounter.
My advice would to be to just jump right into pvp and learn from your mistakes. You'll die a lot, but you'll learn a lot more and get better at the same time. I feel like I became a better player after pvping for a while. I was able to solo dungeons and world bosses pretty easily, but before I couldn't.

MurderMostFoul

BGs are the best form of PvP in ESO. Constant action, no CP related imbalances, and the potential to excel on any class, stam or mag.

I honestly can't speak to sub 50 BGs, but I certainly wouldn't judge them from that experience. Meaningful BG gameplay starts when you hit 160 champion points and can equip maximum level gear on a level 50 character. At that point, deck yourself out in a couple cheap purple sets, figure out what skills fit your play style, and dive in. As others have stated, you will get beat pretty badly in the beginning. But if you stick with it, you will start to improve. The game will "slow down" as they say, the proper actions will become natural reflexes, and you'll really begin to enjoy the fast-paced nature of ESO PVP that sets it apart from other MMOs.

Simple tips:

1. Use line of sight
2. Keep moving
3. Maintain situational awareness to avoid getting outnumbered

The three tips above will keep you alive more than any set or skill or class. If you can do those things, then it's just a matter of figuring out how to get enough damage in to take out other players.

Have fun, good luck!

aerobar104

I had to come on here for some encouragement. I am fed up being bombed up by premades and higher players or twinks. I do well in some and then just get annihilated in others, the balanced bgs are brilliant fun when I get them.

I am cycling through the different classes trying to find the one I really enjoy though, so it is sort of a trial period for ESO with me.

You know WOW and ESO allow these twinked up premades. I heard New World is not doing that and GW2 has the best pvp you can jump into. So if it does not get better with ESO. Im out. Not wasting a sub on a game that does not care about the random/new player experience.

I know I can get better, I've played PVP for years, but it's getting old with these "vet player" stuff.

aerobar104

Oh and thanks everyone for the encouragement. Some great replies here! The community overall is pretty great.

moo_2021

aerobar104 wrote: »

So as a new player to ESO I tried Battlegrounds as soon as I was able to at Level 10. So what is with all the premades/twinks/and getting one shot with no hope of reply? Why is this a thing? How do new players to this game learn battlegrounds/skills without getting absolutely pummeled by these overpowered players, who in the main spam execution over and over again?

I can see how new players would avoid battlegrounds/pvp altogether after an experience like that. It's a shame because it has potential.

Also newbie here. I'd suggest you to take an adventure in Craglorn and see if you can survive group areas alone. If you can't, it's definitely due to the gears and (lack of) buffs and meaning you'd have zero chance in PvP. I remember the time when I couldn't last 10 seconds and die faster than my pets.

---

So what I did was to get heavy Pariah set and Gaze mystic helm, everything improved to at least epic with epic enchants, and keep defense buffs and healing over time even when out of combat. Also keep food up (+HP + recovery) and use speed or weapon damage potion before contact for 20% damage and crit bonus.

After all those, hardest single hits on me are always 5k crystal frags or ultimates. The rest are 2k-3k and ignorable unless 1 to X, in which case I'd die anyway. Then there is some fighting chance in 1vs1 and group fights, because as NB my spammable can easily reach 4-5k plus other effects and I can keep spamming with 2k recovery.

PS: you can't have any of those at level 10, combat skills aside it needs max scrying and max crafting in everything from one of your characters