Cyrodiil Changes Feedback

neferpitou73

I thought I'd start a thread to give ZOS feedback on how the past year has affected us Cyrodiil players.

I started this post when reviewing the currently proposed changes. Rant Incoming, my apologies.

Welp, ZOS I take a break for one week and you guys decide to burn the house down. I'm going to try really really hard not to make this a bashing post but you guys are making it incredibly difficult. Congratulations?

Let's start with the current announcements for update 31 about the increased mitigation. At first I was delighted about your attempt to increase ttk as damage in general has gotten out of control. Then I thought about your proposed changes for more than 10s and realized that your 10% mitigation is only going to benefit ball groups and more specifically the good ball groups that stack crit damage. Crit is king right now because of the insane multipliers and your 10% mitigation is only going to prevent non-crit groups from doing any damage to the already nigh-invincible ball groups. (and keep in mind I say this as a staunchly pro-ball group player)

Then there's the change to stealth. Nightblade gankers are incredibly powerful right now. It's almost impossible to root them out of keeps and now you make it harder to detect them. Why? Who asked for this? Don't get me wrong nightblades needed a buff but making them more annoying isn't what everyone had in mind. Circular AOEs like hurricane were one of the only reliable ways to find them outside of detect pots. I'd rather you revert cloak back to it's initial version with a purge rather than this.

You changed proxy, why, exactly? Noone was complaining about it except for the incredibly intelligent folks that stack on flags.

Why do you guys seem to have this urge to make changes where noone demands?

And I realize now that I've written an entire essay on only the changes from this patch. How about all the other stuff you did this year? Turned Cyrodiil into a beta test for 2months because you couldn't figure out to fix your own game.

Then we had the no-proc fiasco. Instead of listening to people who play the game and actually taking it into account; taking a look all 3 sets that were actually the problem you guys decided to ban literally every proc set in Cyrodiil for 3months. Another one of your changes that results in a wild swing in the meta every three months. Changes in meta that I know for a fact have caused people to quit the game and played a large part in my old guild breaking up.

Of course the change that prompted this rant was your decision to turn Ravenwatch into the no-proc campaign. What could possible make you think this would be a good idea? My entire guild, among others, makes Ravenwatch it's home because it's the only NoCP campaign. We like playing with proc sets, some of us are just finishing getting our new proc builds geared up. Where do we go now? We have two proc- CP campaigns and no proc No-cp campaign. You can kiss my sub goodbye.

There is one change you needed to make this patch. One. Reduce the multiplier on crit damage and reduce the spell and weapon damage you gave us slightly. That's it. Instead we're going to have another 3months of unkillable tanks until you guys realize "Oh, crap, we screwed up, lol srry!" and make another wild change to the meta.

How about instead of making a bunch of random changes that noone asked for, you make one small change at a time, see how it works, then make another? Instead of giving off the image that you guys have no concrete plane for what you're doing and don't care about your customers.

YandereGirlfriend

Very much agree but too exhausted to add much more.

Sacrificing Ravenwatch to appease the vocal minority is a ruinous mistake.

My subscription likely won't be coming back next month either.

neferpitou73

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Very much agree but too exhausted to add much more.

Sacrificing Ravenwatch to appease the vocal minority is a ruinous mistake.

My subscription likely won't be coming back next month either.

I have another paragraph to add to my already ticked off steam review.

I'm not sure what the endgame here is on ZOS' part. If you keep ticking off your players they're going to leave and if you're game gets a bad rap because you keep mistreating your customers, you aren't going to sell any more units.

I have 3.5k hours of play in this game and love the gameplay but can't honestly recommend the game to any friends because of ZOS' crappy behavior.

And I don't think most of us are asking for insane balance changes or anything just a meta that lasts more than a year. I'd take Cyrodiil as it is right now without any changes (despite the balance problems) just because I know we can adapt to it.

I design the builds for my guild and already some are getting ticked off because yet again they are going to have to change there setups after less than 3months of play.

Deserttiger

Agree. You obviously believe constant changes make the game better. Maybe they do; but it depends on what changes you’re making. Change is disruptive and turns a lot of players off. Leave things alone. And then when change is necessary, do it carefully and sparingly.

Greasytengu

I'm of the opinion that the Meta should be changed by adding things rather than changing what is already there or removing them entirely.

I understand sometimes things have to be changed, but lately it seems like they just make big sweeping changes because they think its a suitable substitution to actually adding something new.

Joy_Division

neferpitou73 wrote: »

How about instead of making a bunch of random changes that noone asked for, you make one small change at a time, see how it works, then make another? Instead of giving off the image that you guys have no concrete plane for what you're doing and don't care about your customers.

How long have you played this game? What you've typed here is how ZOS rolls when it comes to developing ESO.

Another thing they have done for years is use gear sets as a way to fix problematic gameplay/metas. And what do we see in the patch notes? Gear sets designed to aid players against those pesky ball groups rather than the sort of tweaking of gameplay mechanics/abilities to see if they can shift the combat into a better direction. An odd approach because if by some miracle these sets do make the sorts of impact ZOS is looking for, players won't even be able to use them in these new campaigns. How could they even ensure combat balance between the proc/no proc campaigns when gear is such an important part of both the problems and the solution? They can't.

What exactly are you expecting from a company that won;t even hire a PvP developer? I hope you like New World.

Alucardo

Joy_Division wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

How about instead of making a bunch of random changes that noone asked for, you make one small change at a time, see how it works, then make another? Instead of giving off the image that you guys have no concrete plane for what you're doing and don't care about your customers.

What exactly are you expecting from a company that won;t even hire a PvP developer?

They don't have to hire one - I'd do it for free.

neferpitou73

Joy_Division wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

How about instead of making a bunch of random changes that noone asked for, you make one small change at a time, see how it works, then make another? Instead of giving off the image that you guys have no concrete plane for what you're doing and don't care about your customers.

How long have you played this game? ....

What exactly are you expecting from a company that won;t even hire a PvP developer? I hope you like New World.

3 years this May. I guess I thought they would've smartened up and not kept making the same dumb mistakes You're right expectations too high I guess.

Alucardo wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

How about instead of making a bunch of random changes that noone asked for, you make one small change at a time, see how it works, then make another? Instead of giving off the image that you guys have no concrete plane for what you're doing and don't care about your customers.

What exactly are you expecting from a company that won;t even hire a PvP developer?

They don't have to hire one - I'd do it for free.

Would gladly invite them to my tiny theorycrafting server so they could see how quickly we find ways to exploit their "balance changes"

driosketch

With regards to prox, it did feel like it was hitting too hard even with just two people. I don't mind it getting tweaked, not saying they got the balance right though.

With regard to turning the no CP campaign into the no proc campaign as well, I was kind of surprised at first. I was hoping for a no proc/CP campaign to be added. But now that I think of it, No CP is where gear matters more, so it makes sense to ban certain procs there, if an additional campaign wasn't going to be added. Makes it into a kind of overall restricted campaign, like a ban list in a TCG. Plus they added some more stat sets into the approved list.

Not to take away from your displeasure at losing your preferred rule set campaign. I'm sure your guild worked hard to get the right gear for your PvP builds, but I know there are a lot of players who will find this kind of campaign more fun. I just don't know if they'll be regular enough PvPers to keep it populated.

AuraNebula

If proxy hits the same with large groups of people (3 or more) then it's not that big of a deal. It's still going to wipe zergs, just wont be able to solo bomb one person. Which is boring anyways, why are you guys doing that?

Joy_Division

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

How about instead of making a bunch of random changes that noone asked for, you make one small change at a time, see how it works, then make another? Instead of giving off the image that you guys have no concrete plane for what you're doing and don't care about your customers.

How long have you played this game? ....

What exactly are you expecting from a company that won;t even hire a PvP developer? I hope you like New World.

3 years this May. I guess I thought they would've smartened up and not kept making the same dumb mistakes You're right expectations too high I guess.

Ahh, that's about the point when the realization sinks in that your PvP sub mostly goes to subsidizing the (quite well thought out) PvE zone quests that comprise the bulk of Chapter expansions.

From a business perspective, I doubt they see these changes as dumb. They long ago transitioned their target demographic away from PvP.

MrMazurski

Joy_Division wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

How about instead of making a bunch of random changes that noone asked for, you make one small change at a time, see how it works, then make another? Instead of giving off the image that you guys have no concrete plane for what you're doing and don't care about your customers.

How long have you played this game? ....

What exactly are you expecting from a company that won;t even hire a PvP developer? I hope you like New World.

3 years this May. I guess I thought they would've smartened up and not kept making the same dumb mistakes You're right expectations too high I guess.

Ahh, that's about the point when the realization sinks in that your PvP sub mostly goes to subsidizing the (quite well thought out) PvE zone quests that comprise the bulk of Chapter expansions.

From a business perspective, I doubt they see these changes as dumb. They long ago transitioned their target demographic away from PvP.

honestly. You don't need ESO plus totally if you are playing PvP only. Lack of space in the bank or craft bag does not bother that much. And the rest of the things can be done easily.

BardInSolitude

driosketch wrote: »

With regards to prox, it did feel like it was hitting too hard even with just two people. I don't mind it getting tweaked, not saying they got the balance right though.

I'm sorry, but if you're dying to a Proxy with just two people in the area you're doing something wrong. You can't expect to venture into Cyrodiil with unsufficient max HP and resistances and then blame game balance. Not that the game isn't unbalanced, mind you, but Proxy was just fine.

On a slightly different note, back in no-proc testing, my raid of 12 folks would be entirely impervious to any potential stealth bomber, simply because one single Proxy is not enough to wipe a group without things like Balorgh and VD. Eventually stealth bombers went entirely away, which incidentally made us (ball groups) stronger because one of our main threats, or annoyances at the very least, was taken completely out of the equation. Even with procs, the only way for you to wipe to a stealth bomber is if you're not running Flare, which every group should be given how prevalent stealthBlades are.

As for ball groups running Proxy, well, they typically stack at least 3-4 of them and in conjunction with Balorgh and Mech Acuity you can expect to be totally annihilated even if you're just one person, but that makes perfect sense given how optimised ball group DDs are for burst windows.

Gilvoth

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Circular AOEs like hurricane were one of the only reliable ways to find them outside of detect pots. I'd rather you revert cloak back to it's initial version with a purge rather than this.

Circular AOEs like hurricane are and have been the most Oppressive and Hoorific things against us nightblades now for over 8 years, since the days of beta.
i Praise Jesus those skills now no longer pull us out of stealth.
Circular AOEs like hurricane are Hrroible, and should be removed from elderscrolls online. those skill are Massively Huge, they are litteraly the size of entire courtyards.
we nightblades have been suffering from those skill and asking for them to be removed for a long long long time.
the day has finally arrived, and i for one Thank You Zennimax!

just my honest feedback.

neferpitou73

Gilvoth wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Circular AOEs like hurricane were one of the only reliable ways to find them outside of detect pots. I'd rather you revert cloak back to it's initial version with a purge rather than this.

Circular AOEs like hurricane are and have been the most Oppressive and Hoorific things against us nightblades now for over 8 years, since the days of beta.
i Praise Jesus those skills now no longer pull us out of stealth.
Circular AOEs like hurricane are Hrroible, and should be removed from elderscrolls online. those skill are Massively Huge, they are litteraly the size of entire courtyards.
we nightblades have been suffering from those skill and asking for them to be removed for a long long long time.
the day has finally arrived, and i for one Thank You Zennimax!

just my honest feedback.

Lol OK dude I must have been imagining the past two campaigns where entire guilds of nightblades have been hiding in keeps retaking them every time they leave. I agree they need buffs but making them more annoying isn't what I had in mind.

driosketch wrote: »

With regards to prox, it did feel like it was hitting too hard even with just two people. I don't mind it getting tweaked, not saying they got the balance right though.

With regard to turning the no CP campaign into the no proc campaign as well, I was kind of surprised at first. I was hoping for a no proc/CP campaign to be added. But now that I think of it, No CP is where gear matters more, so it makes sense to ban certain procs there, if an additional campaign wasn't going to be added. Makes it into a kind of overall restricted campaign, like a ban list in a TCG. Plus they added some more stat sets into the approved list.

Not to take away from your displeasure at losing your preferred rule set campaign. I'm sure your guild worked hard to get the right gear for your PvP builds, but I know there are a lot of players who will find this kind of campaign more fun. I just don't know if they'll be regular enough PvPers to keep it populated.

My problem isn't with them adding the no-proc campaign people can play if they want to. My issue is them taking away the second most populous campaign in the game that's been there fore the last 3-4 years at least because of a fad on the forums (and I guarantee that the forums are overestimating the popularity).

They should've added a new campaign. If no-proc is so popular it can support it's own population then great. Have fun! But it can't and ZOS knows it. The pops during no-proc dropped off after midyear mayhem. DC on Ravenwatch right now is supported by 2 guilds. I've heard one is already leaving. If the other does, DC is dead on that campaign. And I can't imagine the AD and EP ball groups will stay either. The campaign will be dead within the month.

DrSlaughtr

I'm annoyed with the +10% mitigation because we just fought a forum war over the tank meta and won. Now people are upset that they die. Big whoop. Death is part of the game. You get infinite lives. Learn from your failures and get better rather than expecting the devs to GIVE you free tankiness, MEANWHILE, as OP points out, the people who will benefit most from this are not your average player, but rather ball groups, who are already annoying as ***. Right now you have the tank ballers who are already running 30+ HP roaming the countryside, wiping everyone they come in contact with. Is that the game operating as normal? I guess so.

ThePianist

When you guys think of balance, you're thinking of the ceiling and the floor being apart. Actually, everytime we have "balance" the floor moves with the ceiling. Get what Im saying? There's always a catch 22.

Malacath for example. it got a nerf but it wasn't really a nerf. Because you had an increase to base damage for everybody, plus you have slottable cp stars like master at arms, so was it really a nerf?

If we didn't have a global increase to base damage for everybody and then Malacath got nerfed, then you would see the floor and ceiling being apart. BUT since there was an increase in based damage, the Malacath nerf didn't do anything, hence the floor moving with the ceiling.

What is a noticeable floor and ceiling being apart, is Healing vs Major defile. Healing is through the roof, there's so many cp options, Major vitality, powered trait, ect... that a Werewolf's Major defile AND Minor defile, will no longer nuke your healing.

Xahran

I understand why the devs went for higher pvp mitigation instead of just nerfing damage slightly which would make PVErs angry that their rotations are not meeting certain dps standards. But why the no-proc campaign? If it was because proc sets being op, well they aren't anymore and most of them got nerfed and now require lots of stats investment to be back to how they were. If it is about performance then what? Even if it improved performance, is disabling 80% percent of sets and killing build variety the only possible way to do so from the devs perspective?

spotzhopz

On top of yet another tank meta they're taking my home campaign and ruining it. Like why couldn't they use black reach for no proc, in my experience from both playstation and PC blackreach is the least populated campaign, besides the under 50, so you would think they would have the sense to make changes to that one.... Also funny since the changes to proc sets I haven't really seen them be a problem in No CP. They've only seemed overtuned to me when I've gone into CP campaigns lately.

One last thing, the list of sets they've added makes no sense either. Like Red Eagles Fury is ok even though New Moon Acolyte isn't. It's like they've just picked sets out of a hat to decide which ones to add back