What did happen to Abnur Tharn in Elsweyr Epilogue? (Spoilers)

Mandragora

I couldn't find any thread about it, so I would like to ask - are there any theories if he is alive or not?
I know the island exploded and the dragon flew away just before it did happen, so he didn't see anything. But why he didn't take Abnur with him?
Also the way how Abnur was tired all the time... was it really just to have the heroic end (which would be a bit cheap, also boring, because he felt so docile), or was there something else behind - like failed attempt to use Amulet of Kings?

Also the storyline does miss pieces about Abnur study of the stone - we only know that "he knew awfully a lot about it".
Also the prophecy doesn't fit - I didn't find anything about the new moon prophecy - Abnur mentioned that it is forbidden legend, because the information is not wanted or can be dangerous.
And he does insist that it may not be fullfilled, but I think it would be the first prophecy in fantasy world which wasn't meant to be fullfilled? I only do remember the two tapestries - with dragon and green stone and second with dragon, new moond and some kind of fire. It doesn't make more of sense to me.

Also according to what Abnur said during Dragonhold tour about the stone was - that it does eat human vitality in order to fuel up, so only a dragon can absorb it safelly - so why the "good" dragon didn't just absorb the stone? or maybe the amulet of kings could do it - when it was broken in Oblivion, Akatosh came out from it and it was depleted, so the stone could be the way how to power it up fast?

Also Abnur is master of portals and he could use a bit of dragon's power to escape through portal? Also he was trained as time travelller, as part of imperial tradition, so could he throw himself into another timeline to survive?

I would really miss Abnur, also I will never be able to enjoy Elsweyr if he is dead, so yeah I'm trying to find the way how he survived.

EDIT:
adding Abnur Tharn's unfullfilled desire for the ultimate weapon and the fact that the dragon should be immortal from the other discussion here.

Lugaldu

I am absolutely convinced that he is not dead, we will see him again.

ealdwin

Mandragora wrote: »

Also he was trained as time travelller, as part of imperial tradition, so could he throw himself into another timeline to survive?

You'll have to where you got that lore tidbit from, because as far as I know, time travel is a very, very rare occurrence in the Elder Scrolls universe, and certainly not part of traditional Imperial magical education.

Mandragora

Well I was trying to to dig up something, maybe too deep, but according to http://en.uesp.net/wiki/General:Special_ZOS_Lore_Master_Interview_with_Lawrence_Schick - he was member of Elder Council so he was trained in every imperial tradition including Imperial Mananauts - lore https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Elder_Council and from the quest with time traveller from Blackreach public dungeon https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Thaddeus_Cosma - I had the impression that there is a rumor that it could be connected even to dwemer travelling in time.

LukosCreyden

He died/didn't die, depending on whether you've done the Molag Bal story and also depending on of ZOS want to use him again.

Chaos2088

Well we didn’t really see him die…..and he wanted to end the three banners war…..so I do think we are going to see him again in some form or another just not like before tho.

Jaimeh

I like to think that he opened a portal and managed to escape at the last moment, so that we will see him again.

JJOtterBear

Maybe he is Thaddeus Cosma.

I really don't believe he is dead. Leaving his fate ambiguous would cheapen the emotional narrative of the heroic sacrifice. If they wanted him dead, that would have been clearly stated in dialogue. So the fact that he did this heroic thing, and not even the dragon knows what happened to him, leads me to believe that he definitely did not die. I fully believe we will see him again.

MaisonNaevius

Thaddeus Cosma and Abnur Tharn are not the same individuals. Their face, build, and voice have nothing to do ...
It is not because the hair is the same that we must say that any character is Abnur Tharn.

RaddlemanNumber7

Earlier in the DLC we saw Abnur Tharn experiment with drawing energy into himself from the green crystals. The results were good, until he expended the energy which made him worse off than before.

The last we see of Tharn in the finale is his expression turning from desperation to resolution, as if he made his mind up to try one last million-to-one chance in the face of otherwise certain death. I think he drew a significant amount of energy into himself from the big green crystal. This would reduce the size of the explosion, saving Nirn. It might also be enough to save Tharn, even if he was blasted across the Aurbis somewhere. We may meet him again, still full of that energy, but unable to expend any of it because to do so would kill him. So, he would be even further into his crippled advisor role.

Maybe

adriant1978

To be honest I really hope that's the last we see of him as I didn't care for his characterisation in Elsweyr.

While many other recurring characters in this game end up feeling badly flanderized, Tharn seemed to go too far in the opposite direction, and lost so much of the ruthless antihero edge he possessed in the base game.

MaisonNaevius

And to think that originally we had to kill Abnur Tharn and Lyris Titan was collateral damage...

Eporem

Isn't Abnur Tharn 165 years old when met in Elsweyr - isn't that very old for an Imperial race? and if it is then if he is met again he might be extending his life though majic.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Abnur_Tharn

Iccotak

He was blasted so hard that he probably got his voice replaced haha

😅🥲

Fennwitty

LukosCreyden wrote: »

He died/didn't die, depending on whether you've done the Molag Bal story and also depending on of ZOS want to use him again.

This.

SilverIce58

Fennwitty wrote: »

LukosCreyden wrote: »

He died/didn't die, depending on whether you've done the Molag Bal story and also depending on of ZOS want to use him again.

This.

He wasn't one of the choices to be picked during that quest. It was only the Prophet, Lyris, or Sai. Abnur was the one to start the ritual and keep it going.

JJOtterBear

Abnur is not one for self-sacrifice. My guess is that he had a plan to survive, even if it meant losing his physical body.

Elsonso

No one ever dies in Tamriel. If an upcoming story needs Tharn, Tharn will appear.

RD065

Elsonso wrote: »

No one ever dies in Tamriel. If an upcoming story needs Tharn, Tharn will appear.

True. I love his character and even says so long friend at the end I miss his character already. Tharn intentions were good he truly wanted to end the war. I will always think he's alive. Maybe a last portal and the blast pushed him to a far off land, memories temporarily lost..

Chaos2088

The main thing he said was he wanted to find a way to end the three banners war. Then we got nothing after that…..as some other said above, maybe wasn’t his direct plan but it’s not the last we have seen of him, maybe on Nirn….but it does look like we are going to all sorts of places soon, we might bump into him in Aetherius.

Sheridan

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Fennwitty wrote: »

LukosCreyden wrote: »

He died/didn't die, depending on whether you've done the Molag Bal story and also depending on of ZOS want to use him again.

This.

He wasn't one of the choices to be picked during that quest. It was only the Prophet, Lyris, or Sai. Abnur was the one to start the ritual and keep it going.

I think what LukosCreyden meant was - If you've done Elsweyr storyline before the Main quest, then Abnur Tharn is obviously alive.

MaisonNaevius

The concern is that the Main quest is chronologically before Elsweyr. So Abnur Tharn is officially missing.

Elsonso

MaisonNaevius wrote: »

The concern is that the Main quest is chronologically before Elsweyr. So Abnur Tharn is officially missing.

The stories happen in the order you do them, which is the main reason why ZOS needs to stay away from reusing characters in different stories. It creates "chicken and egg" situations that the writers are clearly not being paid to resolve.

Unfortunately, the base game main quest has been trounced on by Elsweyr and Greymoor. If you do the Chapters first, the main story has holes so large that you can drive a Daedric Siege Engine though them, with room to spare.

Tommy_The_Gun

I am pretty sure we will see him again. It would be very wasteful for ZOS to kill-off one of ESO's most iconic character (Lyris and Sai are still alive & well somehow).

If I were to guess what happened out there, seconds before the whole thing exploded, I would guess it was Cadwell who may have saved Abnur Tharn. After all, Cadwell was known for coincidentally appearing, by total accident just in right time & place with a portal, right ? He also often suffered from memory loss, so it may be normal that he did not remembered that.

MaisonNaevius

Was this added recently? Because here we are rushing into inconsistency.

Abnur Tharn, who is exhausted and despises necromancy, becomes a necromancer again and is in great shape again?
The Empire of Cyrodiil has been dissolved in Dragonhold and Blackwood... But actually not because the Empire is still operational in the base game...
I have cited two examples for the Imperials, but there are many more.

No. I am sorry. These dialogues are there to justify a will of the developers which makes no sense. The fact of playing in any order is a will that started with Elsweyr Chapter. Oddly, the characters you meet started to insist on the dates and the number of years since a specific event in this Chapter.

Playing in any order is not a problem. Everyone is free to do in the order they want or not to do certain régions/quests because they don't want to or have already done so on another reroll.
But from there to making this idea official and creating inconsistencies... No thank you.

ElvenOverlord

adriant1978 wrote: »

To be honest I really hope that's the last we see of him as I didn't care for his characterisation in Elsweyr.

While many other recurring characters in this game end up feeling badly flanderized, Tharn seemed to go too far in the opposite direction, and lost so much of the ruthless antihero edge he possessed in the base game.

I believe that's called character development. He's growing into a better and more selfless person. Nothing wrong with that.

JD2013

I hope he is still alive somewhere and that he will have need of The Vestige once more.

warabi

Elsonso wrote: »

MaisonNaevius wrote: »

The concern is that the Main quest is chronologically before Elsweyr. So Abnur Tharn is officially missing.

The stories happen in the order you do them, which is the main reason why ZOS needs to stay away from reusing characters in different stories. It creates "chicken and egg" situations that the writers are clearly not being paid to resolve.

Unfortunately, the base game main quest has been trounced on by Elsweyr and Greymoor. If you do the Chapters first, the main story has holes so large that you can drive a Daedric Siege Engine though them, with room to spare.

I can't agree with not reusing characters. Part of the reason I've always loved questing in order is seeing characters again from previous stories. I just think the way ZoS goes about helping players understand the quest order is non existent.

Anyway, I don't think Abnur Tharn is dead. I can accept it if he is, but it just doesn't seem likely.

brylars

Abnur Tharn has become a god.

jle30303

We could not be put in a position of being able to confirm Tharn's death, because of the people who haven't completed the main Coldharbour quest yet - in which Tharn has to reappear.

After the mistake of allowing the player to kill off either Lyris or Sai Sahan instead of Varen in the main quest line, then allowing them to reappear subsequently in DLCs based on the fact that Varen was the "obvious" choice to kill off for story reasons (if a Heroic Sacrifice has to be made, the man who had the biggest share in causing the problem in the first place is always the one that has to do it), and therefore Varen's sacrifice is "canonical" and the others are merely "alternative timelines"... After the mistake of allowing the "wrong" characters to be killed off, AND the situation of setting up a game in which things can be done in the wrong order, they couldn't allow Abnur's death to be absolutely confirmed and witnessed.

Still, Tharn actually being dead at the end of Elsweyr makes sense, for exactly the same reason as Varen. It was Tharn after all, who (thanks to being tricked by his half-sister) gathered together the two parts of the Wrathstone in one place, and brought it to the place where Captain Calsivius was trying to free, claim and control the dragons on behalf of Euraxia. He bears a lot of the responsibility for releasing the dragons, as Varen did for the Soulburst: he must canonically pay the price, as Varen canonically did for the Soulburst.

KingArthasMenethil

With ESO being in a play in any order Abnur has to be alive so he's under some comic book styled "death" so he can show up sometime later if needed.