MagBlade Bombers WTF!?!?!

katorga

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

When it comes to bombers, I never understood this phenomenon:

- Bomber "ganks" (kills) 10+ people on resources with little to no counterplay - everybody cheers, laughs and congratulates, especially if there is a video uploaded, also, gets bonus kudos when grouped players dies.

- Snipers "ganks" (kills) ONE person with ranged attack - everybody is angry, calls the person to be a coward, or "toxic" (or both), "votes for nerfs", snipe & other skills gets nerfed etc to eliminate play-style...

I mean it is weird, right ?

It's not weird at all.

Bombing requires massive amounts of patience, practice, and failed attempts to get decent at. You are literally going YOLO into a large group of enemies while accepting the fact that you will likely not survive.

Sniping requires standing 40m away spamming one button from stealth/cloak at people that are already engaged with other opponents and then rolling and cloaking away the instant anyone so much as looks in their general direction.

The two play styles are not comparable by any metric.

It is just another build being carried by proc sets.

If it's so easy, let's see some clips of your successful bombs.

That was not what I said. I said it is another build carried by procs.

Fwiw, works just as well with a magcro harmony bomb.

IAmIcehouse

The_Lex wrote: »

Bombing (and to a lesser degree, single target ganking) is all magblades have for PvP right now.

Okay, hyperbole aside, ZoS struggles with how to make magblades competitive in PvP without completely overloading them for PvE. They have been in the lowest tier for some time now.

And then they nerf Dark Cloak because that was a problem apparently.

divnyi

Hexquisite wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

I mean you can almost completely shut down bombers with flares + defensive position / dark deal, if you hate it so much.

Unfortunately, not on laggy Fridays and Saturdays in CP world. The bomb goes off before the game can catch up to what is happening. And then you are so lagged you can't break free from the tether stun.

You don't need to break the teather if opponent is stunned with flare first (this morph), and now he needs to break stun first, often just eats all the damage in the world before that happens.

I agree that everyone run bombers, and CP adds dot for additional bomb damage. But it's because it is fun and nobody run counters, because countering.. isn't fun. No *insane 20 ppl kill* video material.

Baconlad

Anyone remember blazing shield builds? Jump in, gather agro of idiots, cast BS. Cast BS. Cast BS....still alive, malubeth proc, cast BS. Stand in siege, still alive. Cast BS. Still alive. Look out into a dead yellow zerg. Smart yellow players watch as you slowly walk back into your keep....templar

LightYagami

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

I never really saw the problem with this. It's easy to avoid getting bombed. It's even easy to snuff out bombers if you know how to do so. I've been playing Cyro on the regular for a year and I can count the times I got bombed on one hand, and even in those cases it was mostly my own fault.

Which server do you usually play? If you usually play in PCNA Grayhost, I think bombers should be way more than what you stated.

ThePianist

Mayrael wrote: »

Somehow I countered few bomblades pretty easily while I couldn't stamsorcs. On my build with 30k resists, 30k health and 3,5k crit resists I got literally one shoted by certain stam sorc. I won't tell you how he does it (to not spread the cancer) but it's absurdly broken, that even when build extremely tanky you can get one shoted, and yes it's specific to sorcs, and no he doesn't use any exploits.

I know the build. Vateshran 2h, Crystalnoob weapon and Malacath.

Malacath is still by the far the best damage set. Without getting into hamster mathematics. Malacath seems to be the final Aha! When it comes to damage done. Malacath multiplier is applied after enemy resistances will reduce your damage.

I could be wrong with Malacath since I just watched Kerk in YT run around with a stamden that had 1.5k penetration. I was thinking, he ain’t going to kill anything with 1.5k penetration but I was wrong.

I mean if you’re able to kill people that have 20k+ resistances with your 1.5k pen (non crit), then there is something wrong with the game’s combat system.

ThePianist

Bombers are the great equalizers. Leave them alone.

A tip to my fellow bombers, from a bomber. A lot of organized groups are running the new Zoal monster set, and it can cause a lot of failed bombings. I suggest to buy up Alliance health pots (the one that gives Immovability) so that you can be immune to cc . They’re cheap too. The fear Proc from Zoal is not unblockable so immov pots will work.

techyeshic

You can tell by how many bombers are out there; it is due for a nerf. When a niche build suddenly becomes a third of Cyrodiil; somethings out of tune.

Joy_Division

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

When it comes to bombers, I never understood this phenomenon:

- Bomber "ganks" (kills) 10+ people on resources with little to no counterplay - everybody cheers, laughs and congratulates, especially if there is a video uploaded, also, gets bonus kudos when grouped players dies.

- Snipers "ganks" (kills) ONE person with ranged attack - everybody is angry, calls the person to be a coward, or "toxic" (or both), "votes for nerfs", snipe & other skills gets nerfed etc to eliminate play-style...

I mean it is weird, right ?

It's not weird at all.

Bombing requires massive amounts of patience, practice, and failed attempts to get decent at. You are literally going YOLO into a large group of enemies while accepting the fact that you will likely not survive.

Sniping requires standing 40m away spamming one button from stealth/cloak at people that are already engaged with other opponents and then rolling and cloaking away the instant anyone so much as looks in their general direction.

The two play styles are not comparable by any metric.

That is kinda not true. I mean, you can "bomb" people who are already fighting others too and it is way easier... Those 2 play styles are different, true, but I would not say one is was more difficult than the other (was because ranged ganking kinda does not exists nowadays).

Also, I do think that people who say that ranged ganging was only spamming one button at 40 meters range obviously never did that. Because - you would never kill anybody just by using snipe only. It was a play style that also required "massive amounts of patience, practice, and failed attempts to get decent at"

Sure, maybe there was ONE patch in entire ESO history when you technically could do that vs inexperienced players (just like bombing is super strong in current meta), but even then majority of dmg was coming from proc sets. Snipe was only a part of the combo (most noticeable). But you also needed other sources of dmg to get enough burst. I still remember when you could pair Grim Focus proc with snipe and Poison Arrow. All ranged ganking builds that were actually able to do something were not 40+ meters as only one part of the burst combo skill has that range.

^ I know that, because I have tried both styles - stam nb bow ganking & Soul Tether mag NB bombing. The only real difference was final kill / death ratio. With bow, I could only eliminate one target per gank (and not always). With Bombing, my kill / death ration sky-rocketed up as I could eliminate at least 10+ people per gank and often was able to get away too... In fact, I would even argue that bombing is way easier than successful ranged - ganking.
^ That is at least my experience, so.. there, that is why I said it is wierd. One glass canon play-style can barely kill a single target (and it is commonly hated for even being mentioned), while the other can kill multiple targets with less effort and is being loved for that.... I don't get it...

Edit:
Also, if you think about it, even non-ranged (melee) single target ganking is way harder than bombing. If you somehow succeed at it, you only kill 1 target with same if not higher risk, but lower reward.

They're two different circumstances and that's why so many people have different reactions to them.

Getting ganked, especially ranged ganking, often happens not in combat situations and targets just die without ever having the opportunity to react by an unseen opponent who usually just slinks away, ready to repeat the process. It's the type of thing that's OK to do Vs. NPCs, but regardless of how skillful or difficult it to pull off, it is frustrating to be on the receiving end. Mechanics like this are the reason most MMOs separate PvE from PvP.

People can avoid probably 80% of all bombs just by paying a little attention and not unnecessarily congregating with 20+ friendlies on a captured resource flag or a transitus while waiting for a keep to unflag. As far as the other 20%, player can avoid many in-combat bombs by not stacking with their allies. This is a big difference between the two. Getting horse-ganked: feeling of helplessness, nothing that the player could have done. Getting bombed: often their own fault for being in a bad position.

I also think that usually the bomber dies is also a big difference. They may have got you, but they paid the price and didn't just slink off.

The other thing I would add is the bombing fulfills a needed function because ZOS can't get any sort of consistent balance or reform Cyrodiil such that so many people wind up fighting at the same spot. These fights need to end, groups need to be broken up, stacking needs to be punished, etc., so I tolerate what would be 100% broken in any other PvP environment.

Marcus_Aurelius

techyeshic wrote: »

You can tell by how many bombers are out there; it is due for a nerf. When a niche build suddenly becomes a third of Cyrodiil; somethings out of tune.

Out of tune is all the faction stacking and the 50 people zergs that roam the map.
We need more bomber.

WaywardArgonian

LightYagami wrote: »

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

I never really saw the problem with this. It's easy to avoid getting bombed. It's even easy to snuff out bombers if you know how to do so. I've been playing Cyro on the regular for a year and I can count the times I got bombed on one hand, and even in those cases it was mostly my own fault.

Which server do you usually play? If you usually play in PCNA Grayhost, I think bombers should be way more than what you stated.

I used to play on Ravenwatch EU up until recently, but made the switch to Gray Host (EU) this week.

Funnily enough, I did end up getting bombed twice since I posted that on the Gray Host server; the first time I was hunting the bomber but screwed up and found myself in the blast radius while chasing them. The second time was a bomber specifically chasing me down, using their entire combo just on me and teabagging me for 15 seconds because I kept thwarting his bombing attempts.

As a Magblade I might often find myself outside of the usual bombing radius but the point is still that bombers are so easy to counter once you divert any sort of attention to it, that I don't think it's something worth being too frustrated over.

Biro123

I like that bombers are back.

It's not my playstyle, but it adds an extra dimension to cyro, and spreads people out a bit.

When I get bombed, almost every time I know I could have avoided it with a bit more forethought/awareness, and usually just smile at my own mistake.

techyeshic

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

techyeshic wrote: »

You can tell by how many bombers are out there; it is due for a nerf. When a niche build suddenly becomes a third of Cyrodiil; somethings out of tune.

Out of tune is all the faction stacking and the 50 people zergs that roam the map.
We need more bomber.

One of these are things caused by balance. The other is behavioral by people caused by map design. They really have nothing to do with each other.

For 1 thing; they are not stopping stacking. Those stacks just Rez the bombed and continue on.

For another; the group I was in had 5 or 6 players most the night last night. Bomb attempts were at every keep and it's resources as you need at least 3 close on a ram, flag, or repairing a door. It just takes 1 squishy player and you need all hands on Deck running that small to participate. Even spread out, you'll see someone get hit and some start running until they run right into you with the chain.

So again. This breaking up the Zerg stuff is just a red herring. All it does is make us not want to bring less experienced players in group and the less experienced to stack more.

xeNNNNN

Vizzini wrote: »

This patch seems really great except that im getting bombed every 5 seconds in Cyrodiil and BG's. Soul Tether, Proxydetonation , Sap Essence. I have 30k health and i fall over instantly. Mag Blades needed some help as a class i think with healing maybe. But now this Magblade combo is Sooo OP its just stupid.

It would be OP if they could do other things, but it isn't. Its also the only Anti-zerg tool any of the factions have except with other zergs... which isn't healthy. More ways to fight zergs is helpful.

Trust me I've ran a bombblade for god knows how long now 4 years? The realities of a bomblade is this;

- no regen
- no consistent damage
- you only have burst
- you're only effective when tether is up
- you only have one chance to get in undetected
- if you're caught your dead
- virtually no mitigation of any kind unless you run vamp stage 3 for undeath which is questionable as is.

It has hundreds of draw backs compared to its 1 single bonus which is its high risk high reward and you're probably not going to survive but at least you take them with you.

It really isn't as over powered as you think. I will say dropping the 5k health bonus from battle spirit made it a lot easy for bombers and the high penetration of the patch + all the crit damage bonuses from CP. So you just have acuity, Balorgh, Vicious death, spell pot, shadow mundus, Shadow disguise guaranteed crit, backstabber, Fighting finesse, master at arms. Momentum (if you're running the weird weapon damage build to make the most of VD) Channeled/race against time for even more crit damage bonus.

Then you have the khajit racial bonuses with crit damage. There is also a slottable CP passive I have yet to try which causes AoE damage on death not sure how worth it is it.

gamma71

Forget wardens this nb bomb B's every fing place u go there's a bomber. Nb are definitely what's killing me hands down. No Necro or warden or any other class can global u before u know what hit ya.

oXI_Viper_IXo

gamma71 wrote: »

Forget wardens this nb bomb B's every fing place u go there's a bomber. Nb are definitely what's killing me hands down. No Necro or warden or any other class can global u before u know what hit ya.

Stop stacking. Use one of the many available counters.

Hexquisite

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

gamma71 wrote: »

Forget wardens this nb bomb B's every fing place u go there's a bomber. Nb are definitely what's killing me hands down. No Necro or warden or any other class can global u before u know what hit ya.

Stop stacking. Use one of the many available counters.

I small scale, usually 3 or 5 people...it doesn't matter what you do, you can be fighting another group in the middle of a field, no where near a keep or resource, and bombers come and try to bomb you, many of them in groups of 4 to 12.. Heck if you are fighting 1 v 1 somewhere someone comes up and solo bombs you lol.

I do like the zerg busting aspect...but, I would like to be able to engage in good fights, without people trying to bomb us every 30 seconds. For whwatever the reason, the AOE we use to pull NBs out of stealth is not working very well this patch, prob lag.

LightYagami

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

LightYagami wrote: »

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

I never really saw the problem with this. It's easy to avoid getting bombed. It's even easy to snuff out bombers if you know how to do so. I've been playing Cyro on the regular for a year and I can count the times I got bombed on one hand, and even in those cases it was mostly my own fault.

Which server do you usually play? If you usually play in PCNA Grayhost, I think bombers should be way more than what you stated.

I used to play on Ravenwatch EU up until recently, but made the switch to Gray Host (EU) this week.

Funnily enough, I did end up getting bombed twice since I posted that on the Gray Host server; the first time I was hunting the bomber but screwed up and found myself in the blast radius while chasing them. The second time was a bomber specifically chasing me down, using their entire combo just on me and teabagging me for 15 seconds because I kept thwarting his bombing attempts.

As a Magblade I might often find myself outside of the usual bombing radius but the point is still that bombers are so easy to counter once you divert any sort of attention to it, that I don't think it's something worth being too frustrated over.

"As a Magblade"

WaywardArgonian

LightYagami wrote: »

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

LightYagami wrote: »

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

I never really saw the problem with this. It's easy to avoid getting bombed. It's even easy to snuff out bombers if you know how to do so. I've been playing Cyro on the regular for a year and I can count the times I got bombed on one hand, and even in those cases it was mostly my own fault.

Which server do you usually play? If you usually play in PCNA Grayhost, I think bombers should be way more than what you stated.

I used to play on Ravenwatch EU up until recently, but made the switch to Gray Host (EU) this week.

Funnily enough, I did end up getting bombed twice since I posted that on the Gray Host server; the first time I was hunting the bomber but screwed up and found myself in the blast radius while chasing them. The second time was a bomber specifically chasing me down, using their entire combo just on me and teabagging me for 15 seconds because I kept thwarting his bombing attempts.

As a Magblade I might often find myself outside of the usual bombing radius but the point is still that bombers are so easy to counter once you divert any sort of attention to it, that I don't think it's something worth being too frustrated over.

"As a Magblade"

Yep, and I used to play a Magsorc for months with nearly identical results v bombers.

Alucardo

It would be OP if they could do other things, but it isn't.

They can literally take out a large portion of the enemy turning the tides of a battle, and receive a massive amount of AP for a quick blast from the shadows. I'm not sure how that isn't OP.

ResidentContrarian

Alucardo wrote: »

It would be OP if they could do other things, but it isn't.

They can literally take out a large portion of the enemy turning the tides of a battle, and receive a massive amount of AP for a quick blast from the shadows. I'm not sure how that isn't OP.

Because a single DK leaping on enemies with or without proxy can do the same thing, or a sorc streaking into the enemy with proxy, etc. it's not as unique as people are thinking.

The general problem is that damage is too high -- well at least if you aren't running % reduction or stacking resistances with gaze and pariah.

katorga

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

gamma71 wrote: »

Forget wardens this nb bomb B's every fing place u go there's a bomber. Nb are definitely what's killing me hands down. No Necro or warden or any other class can global u before u know what hit ya.

Stop stacking. Use one of the many available counters.

Bombers will bomb you even if you are alone. Obviously more lucrative to take out a group, but I've been nailed all by my lonesome.

LightYagami

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

It would be OP if they could do other things, but it isn't.

They can literally take out a large portion of the enemy turning the tides of a battle, and receive a massive amount of AP for a quick blast from the shadows. I'm not sure how that isn't OP.

Because a single DK leaping on enemies with or without proxy can do the same thing, or a sorc streaking into the enemy with proxy, etc. it's not as unique as people are thinking.

The general problem is that damage is too high -- well at least if you aren't running % reduction or stacking resistances with gaze and pariah.

DK leap is their ultimate.
You're comparing the ultimate to spammable skills.

LightYagami

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

LightYagami wrote: »

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

LightYagami wrote: »

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

I never really saw the problem with this. It's easy to avoid getting bombed. It's even easy to snuff out bombers if you know how to do so. I've been playing Cyro on the regular for a year and I can count the times I got bombed on one hand, and even in those cases it was mostly my own fault.

Which server do you usually play? If you usually play in PCNA Grayhost, I think bombers should be way more than what you stated.

I used to play on Ravenwatch EU up until recently, but made the switch to Gray Host (EU) this week.

Funnily enough, I did end up getting bombed twice since I posted that on the Gray Host server; the first time I was hunting the bomber but screwed up and found myself in the blast radius while chasing them. The second time was a bomber specifically chasing me down, using their entire combo just on me and teabagging me for 15 seconds because I kept thwarting his bombing attempts.

As a Magblade I might often find myself outside of the usual bombing radius but the point is still that bombers are so easy to counter once you divert any sort of attention to it, that I don't think it's something worth being too frustrated over.

"As a Magblade"

Yep, and I used to play a Magsorc for months with nearly identical results v bombers.

Anyway, I played this class, I played that class, but at the end of the day, AS A MAGBLABE, I don't think there's any problem with magblade bombers.

RaveRaveRaveRave

I agree. It's really sad. We go from no proc (most skilled, entertaining battles ever) to everyone's an invisible coward trying to kill everyone's back. They don't go after zergs or ball groups either, they go for singular players in their back. I've never seen it so broken before. I used to be able to survive most if not all bombs but now it's an insta-kill and very frustrating/sad. 90% of PVP in on nightblades right now and everyone knows why. I hate it. You don't have any good fights when anyone can bomb your back and instakill you. Most pathetic "meta" ever in my opinion.

Alucardo

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

It would be OP if they could do other things, but it isn't.

They can literally take out a large portion of the enemy turning the tides of a battle, and receive a massive amount of AP for a quick blast from the shadows. I'm not sure how that isn't OP.

Because a single DK leaping on enemies with or without proxy can do the same thing, or a sorc streaking into the enemy with proxy, etc. it's not as unique as people are thinking.

The general problem is that damage is too high -- well at least if you aren't running % reduction or stacking resistances with gaze and pariah.

Literally none of those things have killed me. (Though I will admit leap hurts a lot, but at least you have time to react. With bombers, you don't).

Kaysha

Mayrael wrote: »

Somehow I countered few bomblades pretty easily while I couldn't stamsorcs. On my build with 30k resists, 30k health and 3,5k crit resists I got literally one shoted by certain stam sorc. I won't tell you how he does it (to not spread the cancer) but it's absurdly broken, that even when build extremely tanky you can get one shoted, and yes it's specific to sorcs, and no he doesn't use any exploits.

I have to second this. Magblade bombs are a joke compared to stamsorc oneshot builds right now.
And Vate2h or Malacath are surely not involved...

WaywardArgonian

LightYagami wrote: »

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

LightYagami wrote: »

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

LightYagami wrote: »

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

I never really saw the problem with this. It's easy to avoid getting bombed. It's even easy to snuff out bombers if you know how to do so. I've been playing Cyro on the regular for a year and I can count the times I got bombed on one hand, and even in those cases it was mostly my own fault.

Which server do you usually play? If you usually play in PCNA Grayhost, I think bombers should be way more than what you stated.

I used to play on Ravenwatch EU up until recently, but made the switch to Gray Host (EU) this week.

Funnily enough, I did end up getting bombed twice since I posted that on the Gray Host server; the first time I was hunting the bomber but screwed up and found myself in the blast radius while chasing them. The second time was a bomber specifically chasing me down, using their entire combo just on me and teabagging me for 15 seconds because I kept thwarting his bombing attempts.

As a Magblade I might often find myself outside of the usual bombing radius but the point is still that bombers are so easy to counter once you divert any sort of attention to it, that I don't think it's something worth being too frustrated over.

"As a Magblade"

Yep, and I used to play a Magsorc for months with nearly identical results v bombers.

Anyway, I played this class, I played that class, but at the end of the day, AS A MAGBLABE, I don't think there's any problem with magblade bombers.

My viewpoints and experiences regarding bombers have remained the same regardless of which class I played, so to attribute them to the fact that I play a magblade now is misrepresenting what I said.

Andre_Noir

RaveRaveRaveRave wrote: »

most skilled, entertaining battles ever

Most "skilled" necrowrdencancer swarm and the rest classes that became not so "skilled". And that is not because the two cancers so overloaded but only becasue of skill

jerj6925

divnyi wrote: »

I mean you can almost completely shut down bombers with flares + defensive position / dark deal, if you hate it so much.

Actually no, with the lag in this game so bad as it is (and it will not get better with this game's age) bombers have a massive advantage. I have tried running detect pots and spamming the different detect abilities...