Turn cross heals back off.

Pattceht

Lag right now if worst I've ever seen doesnt help that on PC EU ravenwatch everyone's running in a massive zerg because they're all getting healed. I swear some groups even run as a super large ball, cause cross heals...

In response to 'solo healers' why? Find a group to play with you don't have to punch your self in the head now wwhen your group of randoms kills themselves. If you want to learn pvp as healer joining pugs is still a decent way to learn

Sedare38

Nah, i need to keep my maelstrom resto staff fed to keep my magicka pool up. :P

Pattceht

Think your joking but heal your self and heavy attack?

Sedare38

Pattceht wrote: »

Heal your self?

I mean sure, but when i have 10 people with radiating ticks going that's more fuel for me mule. Also, cross healing isn't necessarily the lag, it's the sheer volume of crap going on at any given section of the map and also those ne'er-do-wells whose names we shall not mention, but I will: cheating craptards running some nefarious latency inducing crap, but what do I know.

Pattceht

Yeah man zergs wouldn't be so strong is they couldn't all heal each other thus they'd all die faster and we wouldn't have such large faction stacks.

This is not a post about ballgroups, there's other posts for that, if you don't want lag don't fight them. They're the 2nd worst thing in cyro right now.

Giljabrar

Sedare38 wrote: »

Pattceht wrote: »

Heal your self?

cheating craptards running some nefarious latency inducing crap, but what do I know.

This game has had trash servers since day 1. They won't fund the necessary changes to make the game stable. Stop pretending people are flicking lag switches, and start holding ZOS accountable lol

Sedare38

Giljabrar wrote: »

Sedare38 wrote: »

Pattceht wrote: »

Heal your self?

cheating craptards running some nefarious latency inducing crap, but what do I know.

This game has had trash servers since day 1. They won't fund the necessary changes to make the game stable. Stop pretending people are flicking lag switches, and start holding ZOS accountable lol

Dude it's both. I've seen enough, experienced, and researched it enough to know it's both. It's not mutually exclusive.

And yeah, clearly the servers, the coding, etc. also all lend to it. It's not one or the other.

Pattceht

So faction stacking (increased by cross healing), ball groups (can be easily countered by another organised group, if lag is not insane due to all the light attacking randoms) and *** net code yeah.

Trying to a address one thing right now though.

Wing

dont blame cross healing for a few outliers.

time and time again its been suggested to just make HoT's apply a "regen" buff that is a static value heal over time, the buff would not stack, and further application would simply refresh the buff.

BAM

thousands of individual stacking heals get turned into hundreds.

purge also needs to be looked at.

Pattceht

Wing wrote: »

dont blame cross healing for a few outliers.

time and time again its been suggested to just make HoT's apply a "regen" buff that is a static value heal over time, the buff would not stack, and further application would simply refresh the buff.

BAM

thousands of individual stacking heals get turned into hundreds.

purge also needs to be looked at.

Okay that's awesome, i completely agree!

xylena_lazarow

RR from different players shouldn't stack.

Pattceht

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

RR from different players shouldn't stack.

Yeah stop Hots stacking

Sedare38

Pattceht wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

RR from different players shouldn't stack.

Yeah stop Hots stacking

That would destroy ball groups IMO. i'm for it.

Also, purge ought to be the only thing that gets rid of siege effects. all other "purges" ought to apply to player laden effects.

Greasytengu

You guys realize nerfing heals hurts small groups, pugs, zergs, ballgroups, and organized groups equally right?

JayKwellen

Greasytengu wrote: »

You guys realize nerfing heals hurts small groups, pugs, zergs, ballgroups, and organized groups equally right?

Despite the great lamentations and gnashing of teeth, there is nothing that can be done to prevent ballgroups.

Nerfing healing like you said nerfs everyone. Nerfing groups hurts everyone. Nerfing everything nerfs everybody.

Thing is, ballgroups are usually filled with good players who know how to work together, so they will be able to respond to any nerfs much better, which means you could literally nerf everything imaginable and they would still be able to roll PUGs even when greatly outnumbered.

Wing

JayKwellen wrote: »

Greasytengu wrote: »

You guys realize nerfing heals hurts small groups, pugs, zergs, ballgroups, and organized groups equally right?

Despite the great lamentations and gnashing of teeth, there is nothing that can be done to prevent ballgroups.

Nerfing healing like you said nerfs everyone. Nerfing groups hurts everyone. Nerfing everything nerfs everybody.

Thing is, ballgroups are usually filled with good players who know how to work together, so they will be able to respond to any nerfs much better, which means you could literally nerf everything imaginable and they would still be able to roll PUGs even when greatly outnumbered.

not entirely accurate.

organized ball groups benefit from essentially a couple tools that random pugs dont have.

the biggest of those is a dedicate purge bot, a single player or two who's sole purpose is to build for and spam purge, cleansing negative effects and healing everyone per cast, over and over, thats there job.

pugs dont slot purge, its too expensive to run if your not built for it, the skill is literally designed for ball groups.

next up is rapids, same thing as purge, dedicate monkey to hit a key for the group, not feasible for standard pugs but exceptionally important for groups.

nerf those two things, and you both knee cap a ball groups unhindered mobility as well as there ability to just not care about hazards and negative effects.
bring to heal a few over performing AoE HoT's or implement standardized regen buffs. add in another source of negate style suppression or two.

etc.

things can be done.

good players will always be good, no reason to give them additional tools regular players cannot use.

Biro123

Please no.

This has been the first MMO with PVP for me that allows you to help your side without grouping.

Those of us with a busy lifestyle are often interrupted anytime, and often while playing by RL stuff - which means fairly frequent and unplanned AFKs. This is absolutely not fair to any groups I join - so I simply don't group.

I've played other MMO's where no buffs/heals etc. work outside your group - and aside from stealth ganking, PVP in those games was just impossible for people like me.

This is the main reason why I play ESO over any other MMO with PVP. I can help my faction - help players in my faction, without having to give the game the undivided attention that a group deserves.

Pauwer

The lag was just the same with the group healing only. Its not the healing. It happens solo with resource guads. All the same.

Jameson18

Simply put, its not the cross healing.

Its the stacking. The same spell should not stack. For example; a target should only be allowed one instance of radiating regeneration. Only one instance of the extended ritual you are standing in should work. etc. etc.

Problem solved. Organized groups can easily adapt to it, and it removes the layering of fire and forget 10 second long group heals being stacked up.

It will also reduce the power of a zerg, just as much as it will reduce the power of a ball group.

Marcus_Aurelius

Jameson18 wrote: »

Simply put, its not the cross healing.
Its the stacking. The same spell should not stack. For example; a target should only be allowed one instance of radiating regeneration. Only one instance of the extended ritual you are standing in should work. etc. etc.

Hey ZoS, could we try this thing via Battle Spirit for a couple of weeks?
We have already endured so many useless changes. Why not this?

Greasytengu

Wing wrote: »

JayKwellen wrote: »

Greasytengu wrote: »

You guys realize nerfing heals hurts small groups, pugs, zergs, ballgroups, and organized groups equally right?

Despite the great lamentations and gnashing of teeth, there is nothing that can be done to prevent ballgroups.

Nerfing healing like you said nerfs everyone. Nerfing groups hurts everyone. Nerfing everything nerfs everybody.

Thing is, ballgroups are usually filled with good players who know how to work together, so they will be able to respond to any nerfs much better, which means you could literally nerf everything imaginable and they would still be able to roll PUGs even when greatly outnumbered.

not entirely accurate.

organized ball groups benefit from essentially a couple tools that random pugs dont have.

the biggest of those is a dedicate purge bot, a single player or two who's sole purpose is to build for and spam purge, cleansing negative effects and healing everyone per cast, over and over, thats there job.

pugs dont slot purge, its too expensive to run if your not built for it, the skill is literally designed for ball groups.

next up is rapids, same thing as purge, dedicate monkey to hit a key for the group, not feasible for standard pugs but exceptionally important for groups.

nerf those two things, and you both knee cap a ball groups unhindered mobility as well as there ability to just not care about hazards and negative effects.
bring to heal a few over performing AoE HoT's or implement standardized regen buffs. add in another source of negate style suppression or two.

etc.

things can be done.

good players will always be good, no reason to give them additional tools regular players cannot use.

But instead of removing those tools from group play, Zos should focus on making them more available to small mans and solo players.

All classes should have access to a self purge. Currently only Templar, Warden, and Necros are able to do that at the moment and that needs to change.

Major Expedition is pretty easy to get. Accelerate, Boundless Storm, Elusive Mist, Falcon's Swiftness, Hasty Retreat, Path of Darkness, and Quick Cloak all give it.

Abyssmol

The only thing that really really bothers me about healing is Rapid Regen. When I'm trying to heal myself because I'm about to die, why in hell my heal has to go to someone else? And to top it off most of the time, it goes to someone with more health than me. Why??? ZOS plz make rapid regen a self heal or give magicka a vigor!!!! Healers already have radiating regen. Ty. Does anyone disagrees with this?

xylena_lazarow

Greasytengu wrote: »

You guys realize nerfing heals hurts small groups, pugs, zergs, ballgroups, and organized groups equally right?

Not even close. Organized groups with a comp benefit from stacking cross heals exponentially more than pugs. The floor/ceiling is really messed up here.

the1andonlyskwex

Abyssmol wrote: »

The only thing that really really bothers me about healing is Rapid Regen. When I'm trying to heal myself because I'm about to die, why in hell my heal has to go to someone else? And to top it off most of the time, it goes to someone with more health than me. Why??? ZOS plz make rapid regen a self heal or give magicka a vigor!!!! Healers already have radiating regen. Ty. Does anyone disagrees with this?

Ugh, no. Restoration staff is a support weapon. Giving it a selfish heal runs counter to its purpose.

Greasytengu

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Greasytengu wrote: »

You guys realize nerfing heals hurts small groups, pugs, zergs, ballgroups, and organized groups equally right?

Not even close. Organized groups with a comp benefit from stacking cross heals exponentially more than pugs. The floor/ceiling is really messed up here.

Yes but nerfing heals lowers both the floor and ceiling. There is no way to nerf one playstyle without hurting others.

If the question is 'Will nerfing heal hurt ball groups?', then yes it will, but they will figure out a solution within a week of the changes going live while other groups flounder for months trying to do the same thing.

Sanctum74

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Abyssmol wrote: »

The only thing that really really bothers me about healing is Rapid Regen. When I'm trying to heal myself because I'm about to die, why in hell my heal has to go to someone else? And to top it off most of the time, it goes to someone with more health than me. Why??? ZOS plz make rapid regen a self heal or give magicka a vigor!!!! Healers already have radiating regen. Ty. Does anyone disagrees with this?

Ugh, no. Restoration staff is a support weapon. Giving it a selfish heal runs counter to its purpose.

I know right, it’s so selfish of magic users to have to equip a separate weapon and expect a heal instead of pressing a button 3 times and wasting 3 global cool downs before they finally get a heal and this is why I play stamina now.

ResidentContrarian

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

Jameson18 wrote: »

Simply put, its not the cross healing.
Its the stacking. The same spell should not stack. For example; a target should only be allowed one instance of radiating regeneration. Only one instance of the extended ritual you are standing in should work. etc. etc.

Hey ZoS, could we try this thing via Battle Spirit for a couple of weeks?
We have already endured so many useless changes. Why not this?

Seems pointless, because even if you implemented it, it is just more checks.

Assume ZOS uses a system where the number of targets is always detected and the lowest health target is always healed (not actually true, just so you know it doesn't work properly but let's assume that is how they have coded it).

Then, you are saying it should go from now:

Get players in radius -> find lowest health -> apply HoT -> calculate tick -> ...

To:

Get players in radius -> find lowest health -> check if player has instance of HoT -> calculate tick -> ...

There is zero logical way this would improve performance unless if ZOS calculates ticks of HoTs with changing conditions like buffs and debuffs.

From testing elfbane, gladiator, etc. in changing conditions for DoTs, I can say that I highly doubt it, unless healing is treated differently from DoTs in calculation.

Last I checked, elfbane, gladiator, etc. do not improve damage of skills that are already applied. It's likely the same case for healing, unless ZOS hardcoded things like keep healing bonus to always apply to heals and each tick. But if they did that, then that's a better and easier place to target for testing purposes.

xylena_lazarow

Greasytengu wrote: »

Yes but nerfing heals lowers both the floor and ceiling.

The floor can't really get any lower when it takes a nigh faction stack of pugs to get rid of a group that deliberately stacks cross healing, even if that group has zero chance of winning the objective and struggles to actually kill pugs. Meanwhile, I felt zero difference in zerg surfing between when pug cross healing was disabled to when it came back. So, we could nerf stacking cross healing and purge spam, or buff siege. Coldfire dots shouldn't be so trivially countered.

divnyi

Cross heal should just get 50% nerf. Easy fix, everyone will adapt, gameplay will be much more healthier with players finally dying without stacks of negates and dawnbreakers.

YandereGirlfriend

Giljabrar wrote: »

Sedare38 wrote: »

Pattceht wrote: »

Heal your self?

cheating craptards running some nefarious latency inducing crap, but what do I know.

This game has had trash servers since day 1. They won't fund the necessary changes to make the game stable. Stop pretending people are flicking lag switches, and start holding ZOS accountable lol

They are telling the truth.

There's ordinary lag and then there's... what happens around certain players... agnostic of anything else going on on the map.

katorga

I sort of liked cross healing disabled...it turned rapid regen and intensive mender into a 100% self heals when I was solo.