VAMPIRE VS WEREWOLVES: BLACKWOOD!

DARKSTER1

With all the CP changes and such who would win in a 1v1 ?
Rules:
1) Skill and CP are equalized
2) Anything is allowed. sets. abilities. poisons e.t.c (except glitches and bug abuses)
3) Both can be any class and any role (tank/healer/stam DD/mag DD)
4) Werewolf has to be transformed for the whole duration of the duel
5) Vampire has to use vamp spec (don't bring into this argument the fact that you can be stage 1 with a completely unrelated to vampire build. vamp = vamp build)
6) Vampire starts with 500 ultimate (Werewolf is already transformed)
Who would win!?!?!?!

Tommy_The_Gun

Vampire wins

In a duel ? It would either be Vamp or it would be a tie.

The reason behind this is quite simple. WW has very limited toolkit. No purge (negative effect removal) or CC immunity tool. On top of that abilities are kinda expensive - heal too. It costs magicka and you can not use it that often. It is easy to out-sustain a werewolf.

Vamp on the other hand is more flexible. It can use any skill from any skill line (I know, they are more expensive). Weakness to fire can be mitigated with CP.

In short: average PvP builds & same skilled players = draw, no one will win.
Builds designed to expose weakness of WW & Vamp = Vamp wins easily.

DARKSTER1

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

In a duel ? It would either be Vamp or it would be a tie.

The reason behind this is quite simple. WW has very limited toolkit. No purge (negative effect removal) or CC immunity tool. On top of that abilities are kinda expensive - heal too. It costs magicka and you can not use it that often. It is easy to out-sustain a werewolf.

Vamp on the other hand is more flexible. It can use any skill from any skill line (I know, they are more expensive). Weakness to fire can be mitigated with CP.

In short: average PvP builds & same skilled players = draw, no one will win.
Builds designed to expose weakness of WW & Vamp = Vamp wins easily.

Even if werewolf uses prismatic onslaught infused ?

Vevvev

Vampire wins

Vampire with the Pale Order Ring to fuel their health cost spammable will come out on top. Let's take my vampire which is a DK for instance and now you have an absolutely brutal monster. Werewolf can't cleanse the DoTs and Fossilize will absolutely lock the werewolf down and drain their stamina. If we are forced into only vampire abilities the werewolf has a slight advantage, but here is where things begin to fail. Swarming Scion point for point is rediculously more powerful than werewolf, but only for 20 seconds. If the werewolf doesn't kite and decides to brute force a Scion they're dead, end of story.

Let's say the werewolf player is smart though and the vampire is locked into vampire only. The werewolf will kite the vampire if they ever enter Scion form, and once they lose Scion form they'll shred the vampire to pieces. Vampiric Drain is absolute [Snip] and will NOT save them! Vampire in this PvP duel will never use Blood Frenzy either unless we go class skills allowed and they're a Nightblade.

Vampire by itself is trash, and when making a proper vampire build you can't use 100% of the vampire abilities. You have to blend it into your class somehow, with some classes making better use of it than others, and even then some vampire abilities you just don't use. I will stick with what I say about the magDK vampire though because that is the most devastating counter to a werewolf in this game since werewolves can't purge. Vampire would win the fight with that class no questions asked.

Vevvev

Vampire wins

DARKSTER1 wrote: »

Even if werewolf uses prismatic onslaught infused ?

Vampire has the Undeath passive making them far more tanky than you can imagine. I personally would never go into a PVP fight on my vampire without being at least stage 3 since it's that good. You gain up to 30% more damage mitigation based upon your missing health, and that stacks with your armor's resistances and buffs you apply to yourself. Werewolf only gets Major Resolve as their unique 10k spell and physical resistance buff was changed to just be that buff that gives 5,948 spell and weapon resistance.

Basically, a vampire can build glassier than a werewolf, do more damage, and still have similar durability.

Wing

Vampire wins

the only buff to WW was the possible use of a mythic.

the cut to hp regen in PvP was a buff to vamp because if your not going to have hp regen anyway, why not right?

DARKSTER1

Vevvev wrote: »

Vampire with the Pale Order Ring to fuel their health cost spammable will come out on top. Let's take my vampire which is a DK for instance and now you have an absolutely brutal monster. Werewolf can't cleanse the DoTs and Fossilize will absolutely lock the werewolf down and drain their stamina. If we are forced into only vampire abilities the werewolf has a slight advantage, but here is where things begin to fail. Swarming Scion point for point is rediculously more powerful than werewolf, but only for 20 seconds. If the werewolf doesn't kite and decides to brute force a Scion they're dead, end of story.

Let's say the werewolf player is smart though and the vampire is locked into vampire only. The werewolf will kite the vampire if they ever enter Scion form, and once they lose Scion form they'll shred the vampire to pieces. Vampiric Drain is absolute [Snip] and will NOT save them! Vampire in this PvP duel will never use Blood Frenzy either unless we go class skills allowed and they're a Nightblade.

Vampire by itself is trash, and when making a proper vampire build you can't use 100% of the vampire abilities. You have to blend it into your class somehow, with some classes making better use of it than others, and even then some vampire abilities you just don't use. I will stick with what I say about the magDK vampire though because that is the most devastating counter to a werewolf in this game since werewolves can't purge. Vampire would win the fight with that class no questions asked.

class skills are allowed. its just that you can't use the argument of being stage 1 vamp without a single vamp skill and without a single vamp set and say: "im playing vamp" i mean blood for blood builds. or NBs that use strike from the shadows. templars that use the mist and the scion. e.t.c this kind of builds

Vevvev

Vampire wins

DARKSTER1 wrote: »

class skills are allowed. its just that you can't use the argument of being stage 1 vamp without a single vamp skill and without a single vamp set and say: "im playing vamp" i mean blood for blood builds. or NBs that use strike from the shadows. templars that use the mist and the scion. e.t.c this kind of builds

That's pretty much all good vampire builds in a nutshell.

My magDK for instance in PVP only has Blood for Blood, Elusive Mist, and Swarming Scion slotted. I wish I could use Blood Frenzy but thanks to battle spirit the health return on Sated Fury just isn't viable enough to offset the cost like in PVE content. Vampiric Drain requires a target, has a missing health scaling heal portion, and is a ranged channeled ability making it basically a free stun against me. Damage is also pathetic and reduced by 50% thanks to battle spirit + whatever the target's resistances are. So no using Vampiric Drain either, however I could use Mesmerize in PVP if I'm lucky enough. If the server is not having hickups, and my foes are focused soley on me, the vampire stun ain't that bad, but due to the positional desyncs of the server and the inconsistency of the human element the stun isn't very reliable which is why it's overlooked.

Tessitura

Vampire wins

A well built vampire is much stonger in pvp. Don't get me wrong I have been seeing some good WW builds recently, but in a fair duel with the limits you propose? Vamps have it easily. I run a Necro vamp and NB vamp, both magicka. NB is a one shot build that is mega cheap but very powerful. Necro it's just a wait to pop the ult and then tear everything to pieces. For a WW its a run or die scenario because they will drain all their resources trying to heal through the damage, then it's just stun and done. Plus now with Gaze of Sithis combined with the magicka block that is Mist Form, vamps just got way tankier with virtually no damage lost.

Arbiter7070

Vampire wins

Ngl, werewolf is kind of trash. It is a rare situation that I find myself losing a fight against a wolf. I swear I'm still seeing wolves out there running stuff like crimson and I'm just scratching my head. Why would you go wolf in PVP when health recovery got dismantled and you can go stage 3 vampire for up to 30% damage mitigation and also have access to mistform? Vampire easily beats the wolf head to head. A good player running stage 3 vamp on stamden or stamcro fighting a wolf on any build and its game over.