PVP needs fixing

slimwaffle

So I want to start by saying I love eso. I have been around since the beginning. I play on multiple devices.

I also want to say first that this isn't going to be one of those hate on the devs or nerf this/that class discussions. I'm not interested in get good conversations. I am wanting to leave some genuine feedback to help improve the game I love so much.

I have been playing a lot of battlegrounds lately. As an achievement hunter its something I would eventually have to do. And I have started to notice some pretty big issues with eso when compared to nearly every other game out there. And I understand eso is unique but a lot of this stuff is still relevant so I'm going to leave the feedback for the developers anyway.

But please keep in mind that none of this is relevant to cyrodil. I can't talk about that subject as I avoid playing in cyrodil for now.
Here are the issues as I see them.

1-QUES
First things first bring back que for specifics please. Telling players they have to play game modes they don't like is not cool. I wouldn't be surprised at all if you told me its the number one reason people don't play battlegrounds. Other games let you que death match, free for all , domination etc. Alot of other games even let you pick the map. Eso should do these things as well. You can't force unwanted game-play on people and then get upset when they stop playing.

Que solo by the way is not really needed. I understand alot of people would complain about premades. But having a good team is your reward for being social and making friends. As developers you should be rewarding these behaviours as these are the people that will stick around to play with friends. And I would love to see battleground focused guilds again.

2-GROUPING
The matchmaking for eso isn't great. Don't abuse me. Just being honest. I understand that right now there is a population issue and a lot of people use this as an excuse for there not being basic features like good matchmaking. But I would argue fixing these features will bring players in or back. I know there were issues with pve tanks queuing flag games and everyone queuing death match to avoid them in the past.

What I would like to see is roles being enforced like in dungeons. I am more then happy to wait longer if it means I get a properly constructed group. 1 healer, 1 tank and 2 damage dealers per group would be fantastic. This way we wouldn't be forced to play with groups of 4 nightblades or 4 wardens or 4 templars all going for the gank.

3-LEADER-BOARDS / POINTS
Right now these are terrible. They reward the people that play the most. Not the most skilled players. I would like to see real leader-boards and points in battlegrounds. Where you lose points for dying a lot or spending extended amounts of time fighting away from the objective. People who run off to farm kills in a goal based game shouldn't be awarded points for that. You should be encouraging people to play the game modes properly and punishing those who don't.

4- PERFORMANCE
You guys know you have issues when it comes to performance. You always have had issues. It can't be easy trying to balance a game like this. So I won't lecture you about the lag or spells that won't cast etc. You know whats going on better then I do. But there is something that needs to be clarified and I will go into depth in the next section on balance. But the high damage and low health pools already leave very little room for error. The poor performance compounds this and then highlights and frames issues with combat. I actually think with how long you have had to fix the performance you might have an easier time focusing on balance. So that the issues aren't as noticeable.

5-BALANCE
So I'm not going to go after a specific class or build. After some extensive playing I actually think the issue isn't classes. Sure you have a few standouts as far as builds go. But people forget that when you build a character you can't be good at everything. There are going to be situations you just can't get out of. For example you get attacked from behind by an entire team because you were fighting in the wrong place. Doesn't matter how good you are, you are probably going to die. And a stealthy will always be 1 up on a non stealthy regardless of build. Simply cause they can pick who they fight.

In my opinion the issue is the low health pools and high damage. On many occasions I have been on a build were I can go 20+ kills and 0-3 deaths on the regular, then get into a 1v1 fight and be hit for my entire health (usually around 35k) in an instant. I am talking faster then the average human reaction time. I was literally doing a battleground today where I got hit for 15k by one spell then 20k from the second spell. It happened so fast I didn't even see an animation. He just walked past me and I was dead.
This might be fun for the guy who has figured out how to do it. But for the 8 other people getting killed it ruins the game.
And at this point the get good argument is invalid. There is no skill involved. There is no fight. There was no fun to be had. It was 2 buttons pushed and instant dead.
The biggest culprit for the instant kills is the dreaded stun. Getting killed inside a single stun from full health because break-free won't work due to input lag happens a lot. I know a bunch of people that don't even try to break stuns anymore.

Now I know you guys see these builds as an issue because you have been playing around with the idea of disabling proc sets. But I genuinely don't think nerfs or nerfing proc sets is the answer. It is my belief that instead of a debuff reducing healing and damage inside of pvp, you guys should increase the health pools. With larger health pools fights would be a little more forgiving and actually take some skill. I would like to see health pools of 100-200k on average.
With the performance issues you need fights to be more forgiving. So that if that spell doesn't cast because of lag a person can still redeem themselves against that night blade or Templar with the insane damage.

Also these 10 second rotations need to go. Again they just aren't forgiving enough. Especially for the new players. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing dots, hots buffs etc working for 20-30 seconds. I believe 20-30 second rotations to be the sweet spot. Keeping it fast paced but a little forgiving for those lagging.

SUMMARY
As a developer myself I understand that everything you make will have haters and people that love it. It is my belief that as developers we should cater to the people who love our game. Because then they will love us even more and tell their friends. Its knowing this that I think the keyword for the conversation should be "enjoyable".
With the performance issues with this game the current balance compounds the existing issues. This beautiful game should be more forgiving and more enjoyable. It should also not tell people how to play and reward the people who play it properly.
I am very sorry for the long post and I really hope someone at Zenimax reads this. Because I love this game and just want to see it back on top again.

Alucardo

slimwaffle wrote: »

It is my belief that as developers we should cater to the people who love our game. Because then they will love us even more and tell their friends. Its knowing this that I think the keyword for the conversation should be "enjoyable".

The smarter option from a business standpoint is catering to your majority player base, which in ESO's case is new/returning players and those who just like making houses and whatnot. Surprisingly, the end game players in both PvP/PvE don't fall under that umbrella, which is why you see priority fixes for stuff that boggles our mind. That's not to say they will ignore us, they just know where the money is. It took me a long time to accept that. Of course I'm not happy about it, but if you want the game you enjoy to continue, then that's just what they have to do.
Why spend countless months working on optimizing code and rebalancing things when you can add companions, houses and increasing the enjoyment of their casual (not used disrespectfully) fans, which make up a large majority of the player base.

In conclusion, as someone who has been around this game for a while, I have no faith they will ever fix performance/balance. The only thing we can do is accept that fact, or move on and do something else with our time.
Sorry to sound so pessimistic, but I've been around MMOs long enough to know where ESO's priorities truly lie, and it's not with people like us who yearn for a better end game life.

Fazuszek

Bruh, the ,,real charm'' are players who are:

- Faster than major expedition, u can chase them all map, and they run as much as they want.
- Very tanky, u barely touch them. With easy like 35K + health.
- Deal crazy amount of damage
- Can put like 3 light attacks in combo, and guess what? U dont see them! U only see them on ur death recap. They veawe light attacks better than a pro DPS from vSS on trial dummy. Funny right?

But thats not all!

-They also ROLL DODGE EVERY ur attack, no matter the distance. As much as they want, any time.
- Oh and i almost forgot, they are impossible to snare/immobilize.

ALL combined in to ONE.

Have fun.

divnyi

slimwaffle wrote: »

I would like to see health pools of 100-200k on average.

Group healing > Group damage in this game. We barely left the meta where ppl weren't dying after minute of teamfight. I say barely because it is still possible to run bruisers, just not proc bruisers.

On grouping: queues are long asf as it is. Better not to put any unnecessary restrictions on it, thay players will break anyway by queueing in inappropriate role.

Xargas13

I want pre Greymoor balance, it wasn't the best PvP I had in an MMO, but at least it was enjoyable. And I don't think health pools will fix anything, I think defensive capabilities overturned. You can hit some players all day and they won't take any damage no matter what you do, and at the same time they drain your health like a thirsty elephant.

More often then not, players have god mode on, so health pools is just extra seconds of life. This is the first game I play where it feels like everyone is hacking, because ability stacking is too powerful.

Ideally, as I see it, players should take more damage, no matter the buffs, at least that way if you mess up, you know you did something wrong. Right now you just cant make a dent in their health, so why bother trying, it's either roll over or run if you can. Without clear definition which sets are better, like in WoW for example, the roof n the floor is too high. Like for example I can take out a player with one blastbone and skull spam in one go...

I'm doing well for the most part, but I often meet OP builds, which is annoying, I would play something else, but there is nothing that looks remotely as fun as ESO. So they got me by the balls at the moment

divnyi

Xargas13 wrote: »

Ideally, as I see it, players should take more damage, no matter the buffs, at least that way if you mess up, you know you did something wrong.

Then NBs will kill everything, and the whole game will be a gank festival.

You can't kill people because they stack layers and layers of healing, and groups stack cross-healing too. Real solution to ESO PvP is reduce damage and reduce healing, and cut cross-healing by two. Until that happens, you will always be able to build indestructible things that do damage to squishys.

KurtAngle2

Xargas13 wrote: »

I want pre Greymoor balance, it wasn't the best PvP I had in an MMO, but at least it was enjoyable. And I don't think health pools will fix anything, I think defensive capabilities overturned. You can hit some players all day and they won't take any damage no matter what you do, and at the same time they drain your health like a thirsty elephant.

More often then not, players have god mode on, so health pools is just extra seconds of life. This is the first game I play where it feels like everyone is hacking, because ability stacking is too powerful.

Ideally, as I see it, players should take more damage, no matter the buffs, at least that way if you mess up, you know you did something wrong. Right now you just cant make a dent in their health, so why bother trying, it's either roll over or run if you can. Without clear definition which sets are better, like in WoW for example, the roof n the floor is too high. Like for example I can take out a player with one blastbone and skull spam in one go...

I'm doing well for the most part, but I often meet OP builds, which is annoying, I would play something else, but there is nothing that looks remotely as fun as ESO. So they got me by the balls at the moment

We're in a meta where 1vsX is impossible due to *** of damage and you just asked for more damage, astonishing

Xargas13

KurtAngle2 wrote: »

Xargas13 wrote: »

I want pre Greymoor balance, it wasn't the best PvP I had in an MMO, but at least it was enjoyable. And I don't think health pools will fix anything, I think defensive capabilities overturned. You can hit some players all day and they won't take any damage no matter what you do, and at the same time they drain your health like a thirsty elephant.

More often then not, players have god mode on, so health pools is just extra seconds of life. This is the first game I play where it feels like everyone is hacking, because ability stacking is too powerful.

Ideally, as I see it, players should take more damage, no matter the buffs, at least that way if you mess up, you know you did something wrong. Right now you just cant make a dent in their health, so why bother trying, it's either roll over or run if you can. Without clear definition which sets are better, like in WoW for example, the roof n the floor is too high. Like for example I can take out a player with one blastbone and skull spam in one go...

I'm doing well for the most part, but I often meet OP builds, which is annoying, I would play something else, but there is nothing that looks remotely as fun as ESO. So they got me by the balls at the moment

We're in a meta where 1vsX is impossible due to *** of damage and you just asked for more damage, astonishing

I didn't ask for more damage, I asked to reduce the power of ability stacking, which makes some players almost invincible. And I did some 1vX, sometimes successful, but most of the times, because of the above mentioned problem, it was indeed impossible, because it was like banging your fist against the wall in hopes it will break.

Draevik

Damage in PVP in this game is so laughably high, it is just embarrassing to get it that wrong.

I wanted to do a test, so I built a super tank.

46kish mit to account for pen
Major Protection
Minor Protection
30k hp (not terribly high)

Went to BGs

I was still getting killed within seconds, Sure there were some people that couldn't really do anything to me, But it was rare, most people chewed through it like I wasn't even wearing armor.

It is a fine balance to walk, but building your character heavy into defense should matter a little more than they do now. But at the same time shouldn't just negate someone's damage entirely.

Xargas13

Draevik wrote: »

Damage in PVP in this game is so laughably high, it is just embarrassing to get it that wrong.

I wanted to do a test, so I built a super tank.

46kish mit to account for pen
Major Protection
Minor Protection
30k hp (not terribly high)

Went to BGs

I was still getting killed within seconds, Sure there were some people that couldn't really do anything to me, But it was rare, most people chewed through it like I wasn't even wearing armor.

It is a fine balance to walk, but building your character heavy into defense should matter a little more than they do now. But at the same time shouldn't just negate someone's damage entirely.

Finally someone who gets it. I'm probably one of those who's damage you negate entirely lol. It goes through my head like this, if I deal low damage to a player, then he probably is a tank and wont deal any damage back, that's how it usually works, but then BAM, my health is gone faster then I can blink

I don't know about now, since I updated my build n do mostly well, but I've been there, and probably will end up there again. Also I've been playing light armor since the beginning, switched to mostly heavy when the penalties were introduced, and it seems like by comparison, this heavy armor, is like light armor before lol. Balance team trolling entire population