You must have 6,574 Weapon or Spell Damage to reach the original value of many sets

Seminolegirl1992

dehzr wrote: »

Pre-nerf Thrassian Stranglers. 😂

At one point I had over 7k spell damage before they nerfed Thrassian. On a magsorc and a spell power potion of course.

Soul_Demon

fred4 wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

I had hoped by now we would have had someone post the mark of 6,574 Spell Damage on an actual character in game now---If not the problem remains, how do you get that obscene level of Spell Damage in order to have a proc set (with a proc set on) hit for full value.....they locked out Casters from proc sets, intentional or not in using them with unreachable Spell Damage within today's environment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfJG9PhBujw

Thanks for that one....seems you got to Spell Damage of 6139 with all buffs up, just down 435 more Spell Damage from 6,574- the required. Seems its duration was just about 3 seconds when you swapped bars it boosted to 6, 556 and back down to 6,139? (still not quite there) And the spell resist of 14,573 and phys resist of 7907 would basically keep you out of trials and PvP (guessing for trials) then and we still have to find the additional 435 to give procs the same damage......

Appreciate you very much showing where you could get to man, impressive....but still seems the casters are locked out of proc set use for full damage----

Edit- Adjusted for bar swap bounce-

Viewsfrom6ix

fred4 wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

I had hoped by now we would have had someone post the mark of 6,574 Spell Damage on an actual character in game now---If not the problem remains, how do you get that obscene level of Spell Damage in order to have a proc set (with a proc set on) hit for full value.....they locked out Casters from proc sets, intentional or not in using them with unreachable Spell Damage within today's environment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfJG9PhBujw

Unfortunately, this isn't viable for hard PvE content or PvP. The max mag is too low, low crit chance (for PvE), need to rely on dual wield and need to rely on clever alchemist proc.

Fennwitty

It does seem to me though that at least some proc sets are able to scale based on other things also -- I may have been hallucinating but I thought I saw bigger damage shield and healing tooltips with a character that slotted +heal and +damage shield effectiveness CP.

Before, it was flat no matter what.

Edit: Trinimac light armor and Winter's Respite sets. I'm not ruling out UI mistakes however, still waiting on a couple addons to update.

fred4

Soul_Demon wrote: »

seems you got to Spell Damage of 6139 with all buffs up, just down 435 more Spell Damage from 6,574- the required.

Please look again. It is 6.5K when Caluurion would fire. You get 5 seconds of the spell damage enchant from the resto staff, then it falls to 6.1K. However, I consider it entirely realistic to have Continuous Attack up in PvP, which means the spell damage would be over 7K, probably around the 7.3K mark that UESP indicated.

Seems its duration was just about 6 seconds?

For the 6.5K, yes. For 6.1K (Clever Alchemist): 20 seconds.

And the spell resist of 14,573 and phys resist of 7907 would basically keep you out of trials and PvP

No it won't. For one thing you cloak all the time and that gives you Major Resolve. For another, the back bar is Defending. Lastly, the build depends on speed, sometimes Shadow Image, and dodge rolling. I don't invest into front bar resistances on magblade.

Yes, this is on the squishy side and, unfortunately, not enough to burst down a stamden. If you don't cloak and you don't constantly move like crazy on this build, if you are out in the open and in range, you are completely at a disadvantage to something like that class, who is tanky and will frequently do more damage to you than you do to them. That said, I have never built for this much skill damage along with Caluurion, so I'll try it and see how it goes. I do like Juggernaut as a safety net, otherwise it's too much like walking on eggshells. On the other hand, I've had to make do without it in Cyro over the past few months, so we'll see how it goes.

Soul_Demon

fred4 wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

seems you got to Spell Damage of 6139 with all buffs up, just down 435 more Spell Damage from 6,574- the required.

Please look again. It is 6.5K when Caluurion would fire. You get 5 seconds of the spell damage enchant from the resto staff, then it falls to 6.1K. However, I consider it entirely realistic to have Continuous Attack up in PvP, which means the spell damage would be over 7K, probably around the 7.3K mark that UESP indicated.

Seems its duration was just about 6 seconds?

For the 6.5K, yes. For 6.1K (Clever Alchemist): 20 seconds.

And the spell resist of 14,573 and phys resist of 7907 would basically keep you out of trials and PvP

No it won't. For one thing you cloak all the time and that gives you Major Resolve. For another, the back bar is Defending. Lastly, the build depends on speed, sometimes Shadow Image, and dodge rolling. I don't invest into front bar resistances on magblade.

Yes, this is on the squishy side and, unfortunately, not enough to burst down a stamden. If you don't cloak and you don't constantly move like crazy on this build, if you are out in the open and in range, you are completely at a disadvantage to something like that class, who is tanky and will frequently do more damage to you than you do to them. That said, I have never built for this much skill damage along with Caluurion, so I'll try it and see how it goes. I do like Juggernaut as a safety net, otherwise it's too much like walking on eggshells. On the other hand, I've had to make do without it in Cyro over the past few months, so we'll see how it goes.

Right, following on how you got to 6,556---but we still are shy of the 6,574 needed---and even if you did go to cyro (and I think with those stats we both agree there is NO way you could) and pick up the buff you still would need to proc two sets and weapon swap to get the number for 3 seconds---so if I had to guess (and I do) the uptime on that requirement on a char that can not be take to Cyro or Trials would be 1% or less of the playtime? Seems like we got outright shafted as Magica.....just completely not in line with what the average player or even exceptional ones can achieve and run in the game content- Trials or Cyro......

And of course the lack of ANYONE else even trying to get there to me says they know as well you really cant---could still see one that meets the mark and has viability, but even if you hit it one time---you expect everyone to run the ONLY build and same everything in Trials and PvP? I am guessing you and I both know that isn't even a consideration. The bottom line is they set that number way too high for the Caster players to reach beyond 'utility' set ups for content 'other than' PvP and PvE trials. So mobs in PvE. And for the continuous assault buff, it only adds Spell Damage of 315---not sure who told you it gave more so that would make for 3 seconds the Spell damage you got (6,556+315=6,871 for 3 seconds on bar swap ONLY) but the good news is the 6,139 it drops to would become 6,454 for as long as the other buffs last (20 secs) and wont need renewed for 10 min. Regardless, it would not get to or exceed 7k

Crash427

I can hit over 8k on my bomber, but ill admit thats very niche.

The funniest thing about this change is that once again ZoS inadvertently buffed ballgroups. With major/minor courage, powerful assault, etc a well built group will have no trouble getting to and past the 6574 mark whereas the average solo player will not.

MirandaSharp

Crash427 wrote: »

I can hit over 8k on my bomber, but ill admit thats very niche.

The funniest thing about this change is that once again ZoS inadvertently buffed ballgroups. With major/minor courage, powerful assault, etc a well built group will have no trouble getting to and past the 6574 mark whereas the average solo player will not.

For solo the only builds I've seen to get above 8K are pre-buff and init-procs to deliver the big hammer of the mega-proc.. Sort of the ganker who just has to do this and that and then BAM!!!
In a group I'm usually above 7K anyways because of yolna+PA and the likes.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

I think a lot of people in this thread are missing the point. Even if you can somehow reach the absurd spell damage required, it won't be with the proc sets that many people want to use in the first place.

karekiz

Soo uhhh anyone here know how the scaling works?

How much actual dmg do we gain going past the cap?

For example is it for every 100 s/w dmg over cap mean we get a whopping 1 extra dmg?

ArgoCye

It is undeniable that it is waaaaay easier to stack weapon damage than spell damage. And while it is possible to create a build that hits that magic spell damage number - why would you bother? Except for a few niche builds, it would be unplayable. Proc sets for mag dps are done. Move on till the next ZoS balancing attempt.

Urzigurumash

ArgoCye wrote: »

It is undeniable that it is waaaaay easier to stack weapon damage than spell damage. And while it is possible to create a build that hits that magic spell damage number - why would you bother? Except for a few niche builds, it would be unplayable. Proc sets for mag dps are done. Move on till the next ZoS balancing attempt.

LA has a Penetration passive, MA has a Weapon Damage passive.

Destro has Damage Done passives, DW & 2h have Maul's Penetration & Sword's Weapon Damage passives.

The LA and Destro passives aren't reflected in the tooltip, the MA and Sword passives are. Right?

So the difference between Proc tooltips on Mag and Stam will be greater than the difference in Damage Done.

Not saying that makes everything equal, but just talking about Weapon Damage value and Proc tooltips doesn't tell the whole story.

neferpitou73

This was a problem back in the pts that many people pointed out. Outside a few niche builds it's not possible to get the mag procs to be as high as the stam procs. ZOS ignored the feedback for some reason. Seems to me it would have been more balanced to rework sets to scale off max stats and resources like skills do.

I see people saying the pen bonus from light armor balances this out, and for solo players that's likely true. Although for high end group content like trials I would think not (I'm not much of a pver so I wouldn't know, seems to me you can get enough pen from debuffs on enemies).

It's definitely not the case for organized group pvp who have so many sources of pen and resistance debuffs it's not even funny. I look forward to the stamden VD meta

Urzigurumash

neferpitou73 wrote: »

This was a problem back in the pts that many people pointed out. Outside a few niche builds it's not possible to get the mag procs to be as high as the stam procs. ZOS ignored the feedback for some reason. Seems to me it would have been more balanced to rework sets to scale off max stats and resources like skills do.

I see people saying the pen bonus from light armor balances this out, and for solo players that's likely true. Although for high end group content like trials I would think not (I'm not much of a pver so I wouldn't know, seems to me you can get enough pen from debuffs on enemies).

It's definitely not the case for organized group pve who have so many sources of pen and resistance debuffs it's not even funny. I look forward to the stamden VD meta

I'm also not much of a PvEr, but, doesn't this scaling, and the higher potential proc damage it brings, mean some proc sets might find a role in optimized trial groups when they didn't before with their flat values? Of course it's true that Stam Procs will be stronger with Olorime and PA than Mag Procs, once the Pen Cap is hit, because like we've discussed here before, MA has a percentile buff to WD, LA has a flat bonus to Pen. But, at least in PvP, whether the MA bonus is stronger than the LA bonus depends how many integer sources of WD you have - i.e., Orc, Warrior, WD enchants, etc.

Fully specced into Sustain - Bosmer/Redguard, Serpent, Regen enchants, or Breton, Atronach, Regen enchants - does a 5 MA proc setup still hit harder than a 5 LA proc setup?

Soul_Demon

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

I think a lot of people in this thread are missing the point. Even if you can somehow reach the absurd spell damage required, it won't be with the proc sets that many people want to use in the first place.

And that was indeed the point of the whole thing----to see if anyone could actually do it (only one tried and did not meet the requirements on a real build) and if they did what proc sets exactly did they use to get there.....as you see none could.

Now I am quite sure if we asked if anyone could achieve that on Stam, we would get 50 screenshots in under a min with proc sets that meet the requirement. And even better, it would likely be raw weapon damage and not buff, buff, potion, proc, to get there but static. ZOS, you need to address this, otherwise you gave procs back but only to a portion of the community with such an obvious oversight preventing their use of it.

Huyen

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Just wanted to see if it was me or ......I have seen 6,500 weapon damage in the game but over the years I have never seen Spell Damage at 6,500. Anyone ever seen that stat achieved on any character in the game, trials, BG's or PvP?

Weapondamage is easier to obtain then spelldamage anyhow. Same goes with the stats. Health is really easy as tank. Magicka and Stamina not so much. So in the end its a nerf to all damage.

Idinuse

Soul_Demon wrote: »

That would give 1.150 Spell Damage after you got 50 kills so you would have started with 5,350 Spell Damage?

How did you get to 5,350? Truly curious here as I said, in all these years I have seen Weapon Damage at 6,500 but yet I have never seen Spell Damage at that high a number.....I am not sure its possible at all. If this is the case, the blanket numbers being the same where building Spell Damage and Weapon Damage is very different and therefore not achievable for Casters.

Would appreciate anyone who has ever gotten there to speak up and offer some insight-

Oh. It's about the pre nerf Thassian Stanglers. You know when ZOS was still actively selling the DLC... It gave 3K SD with the full 20 stacks. Well over 8K SD was no problem. I then, for a brief time, knew how Stamina players feel.



https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7233560/#Comment_7233560

Urzigurumash

So do the Destro Damage Done passives buff Procs or not?

Please consider how nice it is that probably nobody will be wearing Crimson, Chokethorn, and Syvarra's all in one build. If they all had Resource+Damage scaling, this combination would be more likely to persist.

NordSwordnBoard

My mag toons sans NB all pretty much lost half the damage on tool tip post update. My stam toons continued with very little notice of much being different. I've adapted, buried my dear honor (coldharbors favorite - one proc scales from max mag and one scales from spell dmg lol) and using different sets have breathed some new life into things. However, I wish I changed sets because something else appeared better instead of this reason.

cyberjanet

In groups my magDK can go up to over 7k spell damage. I have the Greyskull addon, and colour-coded, so when it goes purple I notice and look.

xeNNNNN

Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

I had hoped by now we would have had someone post the mark of 6,574 Spell Damage on an actual character in game now---If not the problem remains, how do you get that obscene level of Spell Damage in order to have a proc set (with a proc set on) hit for full value.....they locked out Casters from proc sets, intentional or not in using them with unreachable Spell Damage within today's environment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfJG9PhBujw

Unfortunately, this isn't viable for hard PvE content or PvP. The max mag is too low, low crit chance (for PvE), need to rely on dual wield and need to rely on clever alchemist proc.

Its viable for bombblades in PvP but thats about it. Despite the fact that pen and acuity are king for that spec atm.

xeNNNNN

Soul_Demon wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

I had hoped by now we would have had someone post the mark of 6,574 Spell Damage on an actual character in game now---If not the problem remains, how do you get that obscene level of Spell Damage in order to have a proc set (with a proc set on) hit for full value.....they locked out Casters from proc sets, intentional or not in using them with unreachable Spell Damage within today's environment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfJG9PhBujw

Thanks for that one....seems you got to Spell Damage of 6139 with all buffs up, just down 435 more Spell Damage from 6,574- the required. Seems its duration was just about 3 seconds when you swapped bars it boosted to 6, 556 and back down to 6,139? (still not quite there) And the spell resist of 14,573 and phys resist of 7907 would basically keep you out of trials and PvP (guessing for trials) then and we still have to find the additional 435 to give procs the same damage......

Appreciate you very much showing where you could get to man, impressive....but still seems the casters are locked out of proc set use for full damage----

Edit- Adjusted for bar swap bounce-

just a note, if Zaan was swapped out for balorgh they could actually reach 6.5k.

joseayalac

It's alright, they needed a nerf, that's why they changed them

Soul_Demon

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

I had hoped by now we would have had someone post the mark of 6,574 Spell Damage on an actual character in game now---If not the problem remains, how do you get that obscene level of Spell Damage in order to have a proc set (with a proc set on) hit for full value.....they locked out Casters from proc sets, intentional or not in using them with unreachable Spell Damage within today's environment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfJG9PhBujw

Thanks for that one....seems you got to Spell Damage of 6139 with all buffs up, just down 435 more Spell Damage from 6,574- the required. Seems its duration was just about 3 seconds when you swapped bars it boosted to 6, 556 and back down to 6,139? (still not quite there) And the spell resist of 14,573 and phys resist of 7907 would basically keep you out of trials and PvP (guessing for trials) then and we still have to find the additional 435 to give procs the same damage......

Appreciate you very much showing where you could get to man, impressive....but still seems the casters are locked out of proc set use for full damage----

Edit- Adjusted for bar swap bounce-

just a note, if Zaan was swapped out for balorgh they could actually reach 6.5k.

Yeah, but the problem still remains the outrageous numbers required to reach that spell damage is so high it cant be reached, even for a proc of a poc and buffs supplied by three players, with the very sets they would allow full damage on. Its like the Stam expert developed the required spell power for the casters in the game. Kinda like the streamers were on tap for this tip to ESO.

MrDenimChicken

Wow they really made the spell dmg and weapon dmg requirements the same?

Holy moly they really don't play the game. I almost feel like a chump for playing and paying for this game now.

Luckylancer

Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »

Please just revert the proc change and nerf proc effects in battle spirit just like how health recovery was reduced to 50%. We know they use battle spirit to separate PvP nerfs. Balancing PvE and PvP equally is almost impossible.

What you suggest here is balancing proc sets around tanks. It will kill all proc sets.

Current system is ok but need a bit more work. Devs should rescue magDDs from maelstrom of critical stacking as well.

eovogtb16_ESO

I've gotten over 10k spell damage with bahsei medusa and toggle on magplar in trials this patch. Also have had previous magplar pvp builds that have hit 10k spell damage under perfect conditions but a few years back.

Soul_Demon

eovogtb16_ESO wrote: »

I've gotten over 10k spell damage with bahsei medusa and toggle on magplar in trials this patch. Also have had previous magplar pvp builds that have hit 10k spell damage under perfect conditions but a few years back.

Maybe you could show us via screenshot of the stats showing that number----we have a number of people who say they have gotten to the 6,574 Spell Damage, its just that no one can show us a screenshot of it---and of course if it is even possible, people would like to know what proc sets you wore, or combinations thereof, to reach it. Appreciate it if you can show us how you did that.

WrathOfInnos

@eovogtb16_ESO You’re toggling in trials this patch? Can I ask what you use for self-healing without Pale Order?

Kalle_Demos

That it is possible is not the point. The egregious imbalance is. The threshold for Spell Damage is far too much and basically handicaps Mag players in almost any content.