I miss the old Cyrodiil

misfitmanic

ZOS, I must say you have really ruined the PVP experience in this game. When I started playing in Cyro, in Blackwater Blade and then Azura's Star, it literally felt as if Army VS Army VS Army was happening across the map. 20/20 siege on multiple keeps, long roof fights in home keeps, and it just felt... Exhilarating. It was unlike any PVP experience and I loved it. Fast forward to now, and group sizes are limited, most sets are useless, majority of the map is dead at all times outside of a 2 hour "primetime" window, and the people just stand around watching others 1vx with broken builds. I run across map to find action just to get ganked by 3 players in stealth all running the exact same build spamming the same skill. Every time I go back to give it another shot, it seems worse. What is your plan to fix this, or are you just going to let it stagnate to the point of no return?

CSose

For years now Zenimax has presented their plans for performance improvements, yet performance has only gotten worse. Either they can't fix it or they aren't trying.

Joy_Division

misfitmanic wrote: »

ZOS, I must say you have really ruined the PVP experience in this game. When I started playing in Cyro, in Blackwater Blade and then Azura's Star, it literally felt as if Army VS Army VS Army was happening across the map. 20/20 siege on multiple keeps, long roof fights in home keeps, and it just felt... Exhilarating. It was unlike any PVP experience and I loved it. Fast forward to now, and group sizes are limited, most sets are useless, majority of the map is dead at all times outside of a 2 hour "primetime" window, and the people just stand around watching others 1vx with broken builds. I run across map to find action just to get ganked by 3 players in stealth all running the exact same build spamming the same skill. Every time I go back to give it another shot, it seems worse. What is your plan to fix this, or are you just going to let it stagnate to the point of no return?

They don;t even have a full time PvP developer. That's all you need to know about their priorities and plans for the future of PvP.

Pattceht

misfitmanic wrote: »

ZOS, I must say you have really ruined the PVP experience in this game. When I started playing in Cyro, in Blackwater Blade and then Azura's Star, it literally felt as if Army VS Army VS Army was happening across the map. 20/20 siege on multiple keeps, long roof fights in home keeps, and it just felt... Exhilarating. It was unlike any PVP experience and I loved it. Fast forward to now, and group sizes are limited, most sets are useless, majority of the map is dead at all times outside of a 2 hour "primetime" window, and the people just stand around watching others 1vx with broken builds. I run across map to find action just to get ganked by 3 players in stealth all running the exact same build spamming the same skill. Every time I go back to give it another shot, it seems worse. What is your plan to fix this, or are you just going to let it stagnate to the point of no return?

Preach it, this rings home so much its not even funny. Don't want to be too negative but unless they have a rabbit in their hat I'm almost certain il be leaving this game. Guess they make more than enough from the pve side.

Imagine how many people would play a thriving cyrodiil though, it genuinely had the potential to be the best mmo pvp game however performance & balance are ***.

amir412

Back at the days to find fights all you had to do is port to the last keep connected to the shrine, and just leave the gate.
These days it's just endless horse riding just to get zerged.

Larcomar

misfitmanic wrote: »

ZOS, I must say you have really ruined the PVP experience in this game. When I started playing in Cyro, in Blackwater Blade and then Azura's Star, it literally felt as if Army VS Army VS Army was happening across the map. 20/20 siege on multiple keeps, long roof fights in home keeps, and it just felt... Exhilarating. It was unlike any PVP experience and I loved it. Fast forward to now, and group sizes are limited, most sets are useless, majority of the map is dead at all times outside of a 2 hour "primetime" window, and the people just stand around watching others 1vx with broken builds. I run across map to find action just to get ganked by 3 players in stealth all running the exact same build spamming the same skill. Every time I go back to give it another shot, it seems worse. What is your plan to fix this, or are you just going to let it stagnate to the point of no return?

That's a pretty neat summary. I haven't been at it as long as you, but yeah, compared to what it was like even a year ago it's just tragic now. The changes to group size killed the pug scene, the ban on cross healing drove alot of the remaining players out and the ban on proc sets pretty much finished it off. I stopped going at that point, but tbh it was more a recognition that the experience had been pretty bad for a while and I was just flogging a dead horse by keeping on going back.

Maybe they have a master plan to fix it. But if Im honest, if feels more like they're letting it gradually die off and just don't want to admit that. I mean, it's obvious they've cut the population cap significantly and fiddled around with the queue to make it look fuller than it is, but when I tried going back a cpl of weeks ago I mysteriously went straight into a 'capped' campaign - no queue at all - and found there was hardly anyone around. It's a shadow of what it once was.

Now we've got the much heralded return of proc sets with u30. Except they put a preposterous spell / wpn damage requirement on them to the point that noone in their right mind is going to run them. It's the same sort of thing - they say they're fixing something, but when we get the "fix", what they've basically done is just turn off a bit of the game, and claim it's what the players wanted.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

I wish we could go back to 1.5 without the 1.2 bot prevention lag change.
Just on 1 server so players could see what it was like compared to now.

Kartalin

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

I wish we could go back to 1.5 without the 1.2 bot prevention lag change.
Just on 1 server so players could see what it was like compared to now.

Also with the Stadia changes reversed. That pushed even more calculations server-side.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Kartalin wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

I wish we could go back to 1.5 without the 1.2 bot prevention lag change.
Just on 1 server so players could see what it was like compared to now.

Also with the Stadia changes reversed. That pushed even more calculations server-side.

Well the stadia changes etc weren't in the 1.5 build but yeh I mean more as just a 'legacy patch' both gear-wise, combat and performance with the exception of the 1.2 botting code.

Earthewen

misfitmanic wrote: »

ZOS, I must say you have really ruined the PVP experience in this game. When I started playing in Cyro, in Blackwater Blade and then Azura's Star, it literally felt as if Army VS Army VS Army was happening across the map. 20/20 siege on multiple keeps, long roof fights in home keeps, and it just felt... Exhilarating. It was unlike any PVP experience and I loved it. Fast forward to now, and group sizes are limited, most sets are useless, majority of the map is dead at all times outside of a 2 hour "primetime" window, and the people just stand around watching others 1vx with broken builds. I run across map to find action just to get ganked by 3 players in stealth all running the exact same build spamming the same skill. Every time I go back to give it another shot, it seems worse. What is your plan to fix this, or are you just going to let it stagnate to the point of no return?

I completely agree with you. I, too, miss the old days of pvp. What we have now is nothing more than a CCs and Ulti fest. I loved the days of early PvP. As you've said, it was completely different from any PvP I had ever played. I couldn't wait to log in. Even the Lag Wars of Thornblade was fun. We were all toe-to-toe using movement, actual skill of players, and differences in build and classes. Now, all the classes are pretty much the same. They take turns being the "OP" class this week, but the predictability of every single fight has made it less fun than I have ever seen it before. I keep hanging onto hope that something will change for the better to make it fun as it used to be.

Dojohoda

I also miss the older version of Cyrodiil. It was BIG fights, BIG groups, and HUGE population.

Extinct_Solo_Player

The pvp before One Tamriel was great, after that it was on a slow decline to what we have today. Coupled with the horrible server side changes its like a dice roll for any of your skills to cast lol. The best part was no overloaded dlc classes that did every role in one (tank,burst,heals).

Greasytengu

The anti-cheating measures didn't help lag any either.

Ironically the bots and hackers were less disruptive to gameplay than the lag.

ks888

^ all of this

rbfrgsp

The PvP was good until around this time last year, when a bunch of broken sets came in and ZoS started its year of "tests" (read: arbitrary handicaps that have had no bearing or impact on performance optimisations).

Cyro now is polluted by cross-faction attention seekers and Xv1 resource groups and nothing else.

SoulScream

The good ole days...

regime211

Joy_Division wrote: »

misfitmanic wrote: »

ZOS, I must say you have really ruined the PVP experience in this game. When I started playing in Cyro, in Blackwater Blade and then Azura's Star, it literally felt as if Army VS Army VS Army was happening across the map. 20/20 siege on multiple keeps, long roof fights in home keeps, and it just felt... Exhilarating. It was unlike any PVP experience and I loved it. Fast forward to now, and group sizes are limited, most sets are useless, majority of the map is dead at all times outside of a 2 hour "primetime" window, and the people just stand around watching others 1vx with broken builds. I run across map to find action just to get ganked by 3 players in stealth all running the exact same build spamming the same skill. Every time I go back to give it another shot, it seems worse. What is your plan to fix this, or are you just going to let it stagnate to the point of no return?

They don;t even have a full time PvP developer. That's all you need to know about their priorities and plans for the future of PvP.

If this is TRUE this explains it all!

Joy_Division

regime211 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

misfitmanic wrote: »

ZOS, I must say you have really ruined the PVP experience in this game. When I started playing in Cyro, in Blackwater Blade and then Azura's Star, it literally felt as if Army VS Army VS Army was happening across the map. 20/20 siege on multiple keeps, long roof fights in home keeps, and it just felt... Exhilarating. It was unlike any PVP experience and I loved it. Fast forward to now, and group sizes are limited, most sets are useless, majority of the map is dead at all times outside of a 2 hour "primetime" window, and the people just stand around watching others 1vx with broken builds. I run across map to find action just to get ganked by 3 players in stealth all running the exact same build spamming the same skill. Every time I go back to give it another shot, it seems worse. What is your plan to fix this, or are you just going to let it stagnate to the point of no return?

They don;t even have a full time PvP developer. That's all you need to know about their priorities and plans for the future of PvP.

If this is TRUE this explains it all!

Brian move to become combat lead a little more than two years ago. Nobody was hired to replace him which is why there has been no PvP update/addition/reforms since Volundrung.

Sandman929

I think my own experience, and the complete history of the forum will bear out that there has never been a good old days.

Kadoozy

Earthewen wrote: »

misfitmanic wrote: »

ZOS, I must say you have really ruined the PVP experience in this game. When I started playing in Cyro, in Blackwater Blade and then Azura's Star, it literally felt as if Army VS Army VS Army was happening across the map. 20/20 siege on multiple keeps, long roof fights in home keeps, and it just felt... Exhilarating. It was unlike any PVP experience and I loved it. Fast forward to now, and group sizes are limited, most sets are useless, majority of the map is dead at all times outside of a 2 hour "primetime" window, and the people just stand around watching others 1vx with broken builds. I run across map to find action just to get ganked by 3 players in stealth all running the exact same build spamming the same skill. Every time I go back to give it another shot, it seems worse. What is your plan to fix this, or are you just going to let it stagnate to the point of no return?

I completely agree with you. I, too, miss the old days of pvp. What we have now is nothing more than a CCs and Ulti fest. I loved the days of early PvP. As you've said, it was completely different from any PvP I had ever played. I couldn't wait to log in. Even the Lag Wars of Thornblade was fun. We were all toe-to-toe using movement, actual skill of players, and differences in build and classes. Now, all the classes are pretty much the same. They take turns being the "OP" class this week, but the predictability of every single fight has made it less fun than I have ever seen it before. I keep hanging onto hope that something will change for the better to make it fun as it used to be.

I've been around a long time. I'm not sure of any time when pvp wasn't a cc and ult fest. Especially early on when we had dynamic ult gen and people were dumping ults before their previous ones were even up. Not to mention cc. Anybody from release remembers DK talons and getting locked inside banners. Used to wipe entire zergs with that strat.

The biggest thing from release until now is simply performance.

xylena_lazarow

I would forgive all sins of performance and nerfs if I could get ground oils back.

Joy_Division

Kadoozy wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

misfitmanic wrote: »

ZOS, I must say you have really ruined the PVP experience in this game. When I started playing in Cyro, in Blackwater Blade and then Azura's Star, it literally felt as if Army VS Army VS Army was happening across the map. 20/20 siege on multiple keeps, long roof fights in home keeps, and it just felt... Exhilarating. It was unlike any PVP experience and I loved it. Fast forward to now, and group sizes are limited, most sets are useless, majority of the map is dead at all times outside of a 2 hour "primetime" window, and the people just stand around watching others 1vx with broken builds. I run across map to find action just to get ganked by 3 players in stealth all running the exact same build spamming the same skill. Every time I go back to give it another shot, it seems worse. What is your plan to fix this, or are you just going to let it stagnate to the point of no return?

I completely agree with you. I, too, miss the old days of pvp. What we have now is nothing more than a CCs and Ulti fest. I loved the days of early PvP. As you've said, it was completely different from any PvP I had ever played. I couldn't wait to log in. Even the Lag Wars of Thornblade was fun. We were all toe-to-toe using movement, actual skill of players, and differences in build and classes. Now, all the classes are pretty much the same. They take turns being the "OP" class this week, but the predictability of every single fight has made it less fun than I have ever seen it before. I keep hanging onto hope that something will change for the better to make it fun as it used to be.

I've been around a long time. I'm not sure of any time when pvp wasn't a cc and ult fest. Especially early on when we had dynamic ult gen and people were dumping ults before their previous ones were even up. Not to mention cc. Anybody from release remembers DK talons and getting locked inside banners. Used to wipe entire zergs with that strat.

The biggest thing from release until now is simply performance.

Pretty much everything the poster you quoted wrote was correct. Performance was notoriously bad after the lighting patch, which was quite early in the game's history (July 2014 IIRC). It has been and become such the prominent "feature" of ESO that I consider it to be the standard, talk of how it supposedly wasn't so bad in say 2017 I consider nostalgic because I have deleted dozens and dozens of inactive friends who quit before 2017 because of poor performance.

Yes, CC and ult has always been a central part of PvP combat (and always will be: a good player has not, won't, and will not allow themselves to be killed without using one of the other, usually requiring both). But before class homogenization and years of non-stop nerfs ruined the flavor and design of the original classes, there were other interesting things that impacted gameplay that we could do that wasn't a CC or ultimate. Now every class has the same cost-same damage skills that pretty much tickles any decent build done only for the reason to put some generic debuff that's a dime a dozen just simply biding time when the CC - ult combination is ready because that's the only way to kill a halfway decent player. Dizzy and proc sets were the only way around this boring gameplay, which is why so many players gravitate toward them.

Yes, I remember DK talons and banners and I would 1000% rather that be the group meta than what we have now: coordinated (unbreakable) stuns, multiple destro ultis, harmony graveyards, and vicious death explosions that will insta-kill a 35K health player. It took time for those talons and banners to burn through health, which enabled players options to either fight back (Negates, Blinding Flashes, your own banners, etc.) or withdrawal. After DK nerfed, it's hard to believe that the old vampire bats - an ultimate so uninspiring ZOS totally redid it - was the offensive choice, but it was, which meant players had to use their actual skills to get kills as opposed to the game doing for them via procs or a synergy.

Togal

PVE makes more money than PVP, so you can guess where ZOS is heading into. [snip]

[Edited to remove Bashing]

Greasytengu

If they want to monetize PVP they could add a siege bag for ESO+ members.